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Final Communique from the Socialist International

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Good luck, the two members I was fighting were both good guys and I hope the rest of you find good homes. 

 

SI o7

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It was good while it lasted comrade...

Hope to see the left rise again someday...

o/ SocInt !!

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I dont think you guys have quite the right info about socialism, communism, capitalism, and even lenin/marxism to be judging the !@#$ out of peoples alliances. But its a game have fun

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Delete this please, something went wrong. All is fine in my next post.

Edited by Niemand

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Xenodolf, the Nordic countries are not socialist countries. Socialism requires worker ownership of the means of production; the Nordic countries are better classified as welfare states, or social democratic states. They also rely heavily on their oil production to sustain their high standards of living. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Norway... the only reason countries like these can support welfare states is from state-owned oil revenue. And yes, there is a difference between "state-owned" and "worker-owned" means of production. But actually, the Nordic countries have been going through a massive economic liberalisation in the past few years, and they're already starting to feel it. Capitalism is unsustainable; the "democratic socialist" notions that we can just reform capitalism so that everybody has a nice big welfare state aren't based in reality. Look at how skimpy the US welfare system is compared to Europe, and understand that we have the most powerful economy in the world. Europe and North America are benefiting from a sort of global economic colonialism through which cheap labor and cheap resources are extracted from disadvantaged countries and pumped into the US as consumer products. But if the Chinese start getting paid what we would have to be paid to make those iPads, the cost is going to go up, meaning our quality of life goes down. Unless, of course, they can find a new source of labor. But they're steady running out of that, along with all of the other resources that we waste and throw in landfills by the truckload.

 

Some people think the solution to the problem of scarcity is nationalism, with high tariffs and militarism. To, like the US, attempt to dominate the capitalist system and exploit others to increase your own quality of life. I tend to think the best solution is to just get rid of capitalism entirely. But people think that it's utopian to have democracy in the workplace. Or that people just aren't good enough to recognize that it's in all of our long-term interests to abolish capitalism and to then cooperate in doing so. But, well, [email protected]#$ them, we'll just kill them and throw them in the fi-- no I'm just kidding.

 

I agree the Nordic states are not socialist but social democratic states. States are in my opinion not an answer against capitalism and I think socialism is needed very hard.  However I am curious, what oil do the Swedish and the Danish have?

I do like their attitude to have high taxes and share their nation wealth. They do educate their citizens very and education is a prime source to a good living standard.

I think there are no real socialist states on earth now. I am pragmatic, not revolutionary and I do think some nations are closer to make it possible that some socialist system can be possible and the Nordic states are one of the best in these hard times.

 

I agree nationalism is a no go.

 

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I agree nationalism is a no go.

Niemand, what are you? Most players here are Americans, you are?

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I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together. If a particular political system has proven to be unworkable throughout human history on any but the teeniest tiniest scale, then it simply doesn't work and people need to stop saying "Oh but it would be wonderful and magical if only we could do it right!" 

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I am anarchist, the government of the nation I live in says I am a Dutch citizen though. ;)

 

It is not that the a system will be implied because it is the best for the most citizens, but the ones with power will enforce a system that will be the best possible for them (that is a mixture of what is possible and the best profit they get). That said, systems that do fail will be exchanged for systems somewhat better or will be exchanged for systems that do fail too like in Afghanistan, Somalia, Libya and Iraq.

 

The so called socialist states like USSR were in my opinion not socialist at all and I am glad that almost all are vanquished (still the authoritarian states like North Korea and White Russia have such state-socialism and I do hope a regime change will be done by the citizens there).

Edited by Niemand

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I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together. If a particular political system has proven to be unworkable throughout human history on any but the teeniest tiniest scale, then it simply doesn't work and people need to stop saying "Oh but it would be wonderful and magical if only we could do it right!"

It's one of those ideas that on paper sounds amazing. And in practice fails hilariously.
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hmm we could make Mensa go away

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hmm we could make Mensa go away

 

 

Uh oh, watch out.

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hmm we could make Mensa go away

 

This sounds like a very interesting fight! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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I'm okay with this.

 

I think you're proof enough that you can't make people "go away".

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I don't see how the statements "there are no socialist states on earth" and "socialism is needed very badly" can go together.

Something may not be possible now, but we can still dream about it :P Things do change, one day it might be possible (or may not be).

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Farewell SI, you were my first love.

o7

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Sad to see you guys dissolve. Good luck to your members in the future and wherever they go!

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It was doomed from the start, I mean you guys didn't have JackyCold anyway.

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Pirate ships were largely egalitarian and operated like co-operatives, with many electing their captains. Really, they were a bunch of working class stiffs getting paid by the aristocracy to raid the merchants of unfriendly states. Although once you're out on the ocean, dead men tell no tales. Arrgh! is an incredibly accurate portrayal of piracy in the context of P&W, and piracy was a lot more in line with socialism than you'd think. How do you think a bunch of working class people got the kind of money to have their own political parties? Apart from the fact that some of them were from the upper classes, such as Lenin, they robbed banks. Stalin robbed banks for years to support himself and the communist movement in Tsarist Russia. If you're not willing to break the law, you're never going to get ahead - the laws were made by the people who already have money, and they are designed to keep you down. The real criminals wear suits and employ both private prison wardens and the drug runners both inside and out.

 

Xenodolf, the Nordic countries are not socialist countries. Socialism requires worker ownership of the means of production; the Nordic countries are better classified as welfare states, or social democratic states. They also rely heavily on their oil production to sustain their high standards of living. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Norway... the only reason countries like these can support welfare states is from state-owned oil revenue. And yes, there is a difference between "state-owned" and "worker-owned" means of production. But actually, the Nordic countries have been going through a massive economic liberalisation in the past few years, and they're already starting to feel it. Capitalism is unsustainable; the "democratic socialist" notions that we can just reform capitalism so that everybody has a nice big welfare state aren't based in reality. Look at how skimpy the US welfare system is compared to Europe, and understand that we have the most powerful economy in the world. Europe and North America are benefiting from a sort of global economic colonialism through which cheap labor and cheap resources are extracted from disadvantaged countries and pumped into the US as consumer products. But if the Chinese start getting paid what we would have to be paid to make those iPads, the cost is going to go up, meaning our quality of life goes down. Unless, of course, they can find a new source of labor. But they're steady running out of that, along with all of the other resources that we waste and throw in landfills by the truckload.

 

Some people think the solution to the problem of scarcity is nationalism, with high tariffs and militarism. To, like the US, attempt to dominate the capitalist system and exploit others to increase your own quality of life. I tend to think the best solution is to just get rid of capitalism entirely. But people think that it's utopian to have democracy in the workplace. Or that people just aren't good enough to recognize that it's in all of our long-term interests to abolish capitalism and to then cooperate in doing so. But, well, [email protected]#$ them, we'll just kill them and throw them in the fi-- no I'm just kidding.

 

save the speech, i know you joined ogaden cause he is a lovable bastard. 

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