Popular Post zigbigadorlou Posted February 12, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) Many recent essays have sought to diagnose what may be a dying political landscape. As Adam put it, "politics are dead". That being the case, it is time for necromancy. Herein I present an itemization of political dichotomies that all interested parties should endeavor to exploit. This list is not intended to be exhaustive, but rather additive. My aim is to bring up many political battles...but please do not use this to state your opinion on those battles. Make a case, post a thread, and we can discuss why you are wrong there. Each ideology will come with a scale as a framework for placing oneself and a few examples which I think are close to the extremes on such a scale. Tribalism us vs. them Many have pointed to shifts in tribal meta as problematic or good...but in either case a major source of conflict is such a tribe. On the micro scale, it is often you and your friends. Early on it was alliance based. Now it is generally bloc based. However it is organized, you stick with your tribe and hate on the other tribe. Rosebad.gif, GG ruins the game, swamp is worthless...you get the point. This is the easiest to latch onto and drives every conflict to some extent. You can place yourself easily by how much you buy into your alliance and bloc. Tribalists: Mascots, e.g. Eumirbago, Globalists: Business owners, e.g. Yarr, Lysander Globalism <------------- | -------------> Tribalism Meta Many of the top, most experienced players have a particular idea of how things should be done. The meta. Those topics include raiding, econ, FA, automation, etc. (most of these topics). Those players are often dismissive of those who dissent from the meta. I won't bother putting examples for the pro-meta camp. You know who you are. I'm clearly a divergent. Meta <------------- | -------------> Divergent Raiding Raiding at a young nation age has become part of the meta, but even so there is still a diversity of thoughts about the topic. There are pacifists who refuse to go to war for nearly any reason, and there are raiders who try to see how much they can get away with such as arrgh, 99A, and space invaders. Most alliances lie somewhere in between. Raiders <------------- | -------------> Pacifists Multipolarity There has been an ongoing discussion amongst the top players on what the meta should be on tribe size. That is to say, what is an effective unit to call a coherent unit? Historians point to bipolar world of NPO where most conflicts were the same two sides. This has advantages in being more coherent with less political chaos. In the middle is multipolarity which I think is close to what we have now (quadrupolar). On the far end is those who wish to return to the more chaotic pre-bloc times where oA and chaining/non-chaining terms mattered. Bipolar <------------- | -------------> Paperless Economics Although there is often discussion about whether 100/100 or 0/0 taxes are wrong, rarely does it ever go beyond sharing opinions. However, everyone has a stance on taxes, extent of grants, etc. In my mind, the conservative econ extreme is Grumpy who runs 0/0 and has a small bank for interest free loans, so nearly uncontrolled econ. On the other hand there is the liberal stance which gives money to all and especially gives money to gov members. I don't think a war will be fought over taxes, but it certainly might over gov embezzling. Laissez Faire <------------- | -------------> Command Economy Businesses Many businesses have grown into prominence. Businesses are often supported as they allow profit, offshoring, and money exchanges across diplomatic lines. They are often criticized because so many have failed (scam!), make profits off of the poor (usury!), or do offshoring. Usually it boils down to whether it is the role of the alliance to provide services or if it is best to go externally. Views on businesses probably vary the most within tribes with certain people like Adam coming out publicly against them while working at RON with bank owner and ally Krampus. Capitalist <------------- | -------------> Communalist Automation Bots out vs. bots good A growing debate has recently erupted over the limitations that bots should have. There are many capabilities of bots, so this is a non-linear dichotomy. There is a big question of "how far is too far". Alex has moderated the most extreme cases, and for some that is enough. On the other hand, the player base is very powerful in deciding what sort of power is allowed politically. Grumpy is a good case of alliance-wide protest of automation, while space invaders until recently was one of the most automated. Manual <------------- | -------------> Automated Conclusion I create this list in hopes that it may aid lesser experienced players in their IC character creation. Anyone who wants to engage more, I encourage you: find a topic, take a stance, and be divisive about it. This list is by no means exhaustive, and I encourage any who are interested in this idea to list more below. I also intend for this to be a living document, so if you think of better terms for things, let me know. Edited February 12, 2022 by zigbigadorlou Update multipolarity terms 3 19 Quote Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link. https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelo Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 #JohnsonsWillRise 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnauzerguy Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nelo said: #JohnsonsWillRise I didn’t even know you used the forums but you’re speaking facts here Nelo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 glorious text wall. Quote Why are you reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Kell Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Very well put and pretty accurate on how people are engaging in Orbis politics. I will offer my own thoughts 10 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said: On the far end is those who wish to return to the more chaotic pre-bloc times where oA and chaining/non-chaining terms mattered. This is the only way to think so anyone who doesn't have their little marker on this far side is living a fantasy. I also disagree with the "Bipolar" naming of this belief, but that would take too long to go into. Additionally, screw the meta. People who try to keep everything as the status quo and the proper way of doing things should realize that they cause problems in the evolution and progression of the game. These people are also the ones (cough @keezgo) that will claim you are going backwards whenever you say there is a problem with sphere politics and we need to be more individual alliance centric. 13 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said: here are pacifists who refuse to go to war for nearly any reason If you are part of this ideology, I hope you realize you are ignoring half of the purpose of this game and honestly help destroy the fun... 14 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said: Businesses Due to sphere politics, if you trust a business that is run outside your sphere, you deserve to lose all your money. 1 Quote Listen to J Kell's Album: About The Author An early member of Roz Wei in 2015, J Kell went on to stay within the paperless world of Empyrea before signing with Soup Kitchen while scoring a record deal in 2019. J Kell went on to release multiple Orbis Top 40 hits. In 2020, J Kell took a break from Orbis. He's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegoz Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, J Kell said: This is the only way to think so anyone who doesn't have their little marker on this far side is living a fantasy. I also disagree with the "Bipolar" naming of this belief, but that would take too long to go into. Additionally, screw the meta. People who try to keep everything as the status quo and the proper way of doing things should realize that they cause problems in the evolution and progression of the game. These people are also the ones (cough @keezgo) that will claim you are going backwards whenever you say there is a problem with sphere politics and we need to be more individual alliance centric. Pre-bloc era is going back to a game that didn't even have NPO in it. We're talking before Paragon imo, which was a much smaller game with it revolving around the top 10. Apparently disagreeing with this re-writing of history is an issue for you. I'm also not a fan of people who didn't even play during these time periods or weren't politically involved quite troubling as well. The fact alliances consistently move out of spheres for their own gain should point to the fact that there are plenty who think for themselves before the sphere. TFP/TI just recently did it. tCW just did it. Eclipse has done it. Cata has done it. I can go on. 1 Quote [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: But Keegoz is actually bad. [11:52 PM] Prefontaine: He's my favorite bad leader though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 TLDR???? Oh wait. That's my job 👀 1 1 Quote Inform Zigbir I have forgotten how to edit the signature field Please remind me how to do it post haste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zevfer Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said: Automation Bots out vs. bots good A growing debate has recently erupted over the limitations that bots should have. There are many capabilities of bots, so this is a non-linear dichotomy. There is a big question of "how far is too far". Alex has moderated the most extreme cases, and for some that is enough. On the other hand, the player base is very powerful in deciding what sort of power is allowed politically. Grumpy is a good case of alliance-wide protest of automation, while space invaders until recently was one of the most automated. Manual <------------- | -------------> Automated Within the tech community, there is already a clear line that Alex has given us in regards to what bots can and cannot do. Automating an account to play is against the rules, what is allowed however is, if the action is human initiated it is allowed. An example of this would be; if a human authorizes a bot (ie a bot command) to make a bank transfer, that is acceptable. What isn't is automatically sending money to an alliance member when their city timer is up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 I resent this multipolarity one in particular. My (completely unrealistic and likely never achievable in any reality) dream has always been the death of treaties entirely. At absolute maximum would be temporary, basically word of mouth agreements. No paper at all. And you little heccin 2 way axis there's doesn't have a place for a treaty anarchist except off the axis 😛 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigbigadorlou Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 23 minutes ago, Keegoz said: Argument 31 minutes ago, J Kell said: Words Good discussion. I encourage you both to state your political platform...elsewhere? I thought of adding something about whether citing history matters, but it wouldn't have been a proper dichotomy. 5 minutes ago, zevfer said: Argument As I said, Sheepy is the authority but is not the only voice. The discussion is wider than simply what the dev allows. 1 minute ago, Zei-Sakura Alsainn said: And you little heccin 2 way axis there's doesn't have a place for a treaty anarchist except off the axis 😛 Good point. I don't like the term I've used there so I'll switch it to "paperless" which is probably a better description. Quote Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link. https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, zigbigadorlou said: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ <Argument> ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) I'm sorry sir, this is a non-discussion channel. Edited February 12, 2022 by Krampus Quote Inform Zigbir I have forgotten how to edit the signature field Please remind me how to do it post haste! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnauzerguy Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Just thought, weebs in vs weebs out should definitely be in here 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch-King Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 Alliance's should be limited to no more than 4 treaties vs current everyone's linked to everyone. It would definitely change the current political structure and improve the game imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katashimon13 Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 i still vote for referring to the population as orbs instead of orbisans also badam* p.s. i call tribalists cheerleaders rawr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Iroh Posted February 12, 2022 Share Posted February 12, 2022 8 hours ago, zigbigadorlou said: Economics Although there is often discussion about whether 100/100 or 0/0 taxes are wrong, rarely does it ever go beyond sharing opinions. However, everyone has a stance on taxes, extent of grants, etc. In my mind, the conservative econ extreme is Grumpy who runs 0/0 and has a small bank for interest free loans, so nearly uncontrolled econ. On the other hand there is the liberal stance which gives money to all and especially gives money to gov members. I don't think a war will be fought over taxes, but it certainly might over gov embezzling. Laissez Faire <------------- | -------------> Command Economy 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Knox Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Great, this post has made me want a political scales/compass quiz for Politics and War lol. 1 Quote Federation of Knox Enlightened of Chaos, Event Horizon QA Team and API Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Cannot Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 just came to say im enjoying all the analysis, WoT's and reflecting that people of orbis are doing right now. appreciate you zig for giving people issues to build stances upon. sadly im out of reactions otherwise i would give you a FAT thumbsup that is all ❤️ 3 Quote Hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spukey Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 On 2/12/2022 at 2:35 PM, katashimon13 said: i still vote for referring to the population as orbs instead of orbisans Seconded! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majima Goro Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) REFERENCE SCALE:<------------- | -------------> Tribalism : Globalism <------ | --------------------> Tribalism Meta Meta <-------------------- | ------> Divergent Raiding Raiders <------ | --------------------> Pacifists Multipolarity Bipolar <------------------------ | --> Paperless Economics Laissez Faire <--------------------- | -----> Command Economy Businesses Capitalist <-------------------- | ------> Communalist Automation Manual <----------- | -------------> Automated Edited February 14, 2022 by Majima Goro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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