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[RoH] For your consideration


The Acolyte
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25 minutes ago, Charles Bolivar said:

Wait what.

So if I am reading this right...a merger was pushed through without much consultation with your own members, and then you attacked your own former members when a few of them formed their own AA and discussed with their own friends about joining them in this new AA. At the same time considering these same members were given no choice in the matter or were barely informed of the merger at all

Agreed. This has to be one of the weakest CB's I've seen. Get your membership involved. Give them a good reason to follow you through the merger. One of you says they're free to make that decision, but apparently MH_speedy isn't allowed to leave the door open to joining? You expect your protectorate to just stay silent? It's bad enough that you're forcing no-FA rules, but trying to avoid poaching by instituting a gag order is pretty awful. 

4 minutes ago, Epi said:

The Government of Pantheon recognizes hostilities with Black Skies after their failed attempts to impede our commandeering of their vessels.

Does anyone actually acknowledge your leadership of Pantheon? Nice DOW in support of non-allies in a failed alliance. 

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Drama drama, I just want to see pixels burn. Shame Firwof ain't in Liberty anymore

 

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"Havgle is a piece of sh*t" -probably everyone in Orbis

 

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15 minutes ago, Cedar said:

These "order" guys are a bit dramatic  for a panty raid .

But you guys hit them first? TO was just hitting TIE for poaching. Plus (They only hit the guy who poached, Not the whole alliance)

Edited by Montiform
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It's funny cause Alan's an idiot and nobody's going to care because they're all micros but damn that's a laughable justification for hitting someone to set the shenanigans in motion.

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:nyan:The Volleyball :nyan: 

Avanti Immortali

 

..one, two, Jimmy's coming for you...

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15 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Agreed. This has to be one of the weakest CB's I've seen. Get your membership involved. Give them a good reason to follow you through the merger. One of you says they're free to make that decision, but apparently MH_speedy isn't allowed to leave the door open to joining? You expect your protectorate to just stay silent? It's bad enough that you're forcing no-FA rules, but trying to avoid poaching by instituting a gag order is pretty awful. 

Does anyone actually acknowledge your leadership of Pantheon? Nice DOW in support of non-allies in a failed alliance. 

We gave members two weeks to get to know their TEst counterparts and were ready to back out at any time if the membership pushed against it but guess what? They didn't and The Order was born. The real reason MH left wasn't because of the merger, he wanted to make his own AA for months and was waiting for Imperium to get to a stable point before leaving; he agreed that the merger would do that which is why the entire thing started amicably. The Infinite Empire only started claiming it was because of the merge once other people started assuming that was the case. This is also an RoH, not a DoW, and should not be read as a CB but an explanation of how things escalated. Yes, we slotted the leader for poaching but it was Liberty that escalated this when they started attacking uninvolved nations and that's why we're here.

Edited by TigerFire
Edited for clarity.
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1 minute ago, TigerFire said:

We gave members two weeks to get to know their TEst counterparts and were ready to back out at any time if the membership pushed against it but guess what? They didn't and The Order was born. The real reason MH left wasn't because of the merger, he wanted to make his own AA for months and was waiting for Imperium to get to a stable point before leaving; he agreed that the merger would do that which is why the entire thing started amicably. The Infinite Empire only started claiming it was because of the merge once other people started assuming that was the case. This is also an RoH, not a DoW, and should not be read as a CB but an explanation of how things escalated. Yes, we slotted the leader but it was Liberty that escalated this when they started attacking uninvolved nations and that's why we're here.

I had been unhappy for quit a while in the Imperium. Only after we left did I truly realize how unhappy I was. I almost deleted in December. I'm not on to say stuff about people under normal circumstances. I was taught if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

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4 minutes ago, TigerFire said:

We gave members two weeks to get to know their TEst counterparts and were ready to back out at any time if the membership pushed against it but guess what? They didn't and The Order was born. The real reason MH left wasn't because of the merger, he wanted to make his own AA for months and was waiting for Imperium to get to a stable point before leaving; he agreed that the merger would do that which is why the entire thing started amicably. The Infinite Empire only started claiming it was because of the merge once other people started assuming that was the case. This is also an RoH, not a DoW, and should not be read as a CB but an explanation of how things escalated. Yes, we slotted the leader for poaching but it was Liberty that escalated this when they started attacking uninvolved nations and that's why we're here.

I don't care what you call it. It looks like you shot the first shots, and their allies came to defend. That makes you the aggressor with a stated CB and the opposing bloc (whatever they're called) the defender who would be the ones posting an RoH. 

The logs above don't seem to suggest TIE was started because of the merger, but that the "poaching" was related to it. When I'm talking about allowing members to leave, I'm not talking about MH_speedy. I'm talking about the so called poached who seemed like they were pursuing an alternate option. The logs your side posted even show speedy being hesitant for fear of a normal conversation seeming like poaching.

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11 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said:

It's funny cause Alan's an idiot and nobody's going to care because they're all micros but damn that's a laughable justification for hitting someone to set the shenanigans in motion.

Slotting someone for poaching after multiple attempts to get them to stop falling on deaf ears? That’s solid justification.

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Journey before Destination.

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21 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

It's bad enough that you're forcing no-FA rules, but trying to avoid poaching by instituting a gag order is pretty awful. 

As a minor point here, this has been standard TKR policy to have prots not sign external ties.  We commit to them fully, and we provide FA services until they develop a reliable FA team (which isn't easy for most micros and a really common source of failure).  We've got a pretty good track record, which TIm was a part of and Vader experienced personally.  It's only natural for him to use a tried and true method versus the hands-off, sink or swim attitude a lot of protectors in Orbis tend to have towards their protectorates.  

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1 minute ago, zigbigadorlou said:

I don't care what you call it. It looks like you shot the first shots, and their allies came to defend. That makes you the aggressor with a stated CB and the opposing bloc (whatever they're called) the defender who would be the ones posting an RoH. 

The logs above don't seem to suggest TIE was started because of the merger, but that the "poaching" was related to it. When I'm talking about allowing members to leave, I'm not talking about MH_speedy. I'm talking about the so called poached who seemed like they were pursuing an alternate option. The logs your side posted even show speedy being hesitant for fear of a normal conversation seeming like poaching.

Yes I wasn't even allowed to mention my alliance in the member chat

Rainbow RIE but smaller.gif

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1 minute ago, Cooper_ said:

As a minor point here, this has been standard TKR policy to have prots not sign external ties.  We commit to them fully, and we provide FA services until they develop a reliable FA team (which isn't easy for most micros and a really common source of failure).  We've got a pretty good track record, which TIm was a part of and Vader experienced personally.  It's only natural for him to use a tried and true method versus the hands-off, sink or swim attitude a lot of protectors in Orbis tend to have towards their protectorates.  

Yeah, I can see the point in that. It's easy for me to misunderstand, having not been in a micro ever. And I guess I still have a chip on my shoulder from IQ dictating the FA to us in Cornerstone. 

I'll concede I overreached there, but the rest of my argument stands. 

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44 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

Agreed. This has to be one of the weakest CB's I've seen. Get your membership involved. Give them a good reason to follow you through the merger. One of you says they're free to make that decision, but apparently MH_speedy isn't allowed to leave the door open to joining? You expect your protectorate to just stay silent? It's bad enough that you're forcing no-FA rules, but trying to avoid poaching by instituting a gag order is pretty awful. 

Actually, if you must know, when MH learned it was a membership discussion. We began with a one-month timeline one month. We had invited everyone to a single server (the present Order server) for the purpose of gauging what general membership felt about things when MH totally flipped, claiming we had left him in the dark when in fact he was there as we were feeling the waters. We had been working with membership, we had been contacting members and gov to get what they feel and I took it into serious consideration. And we hadn't even finalized that the merger was happening at all, it was just an on-the-table situation

 

We did not just throw our members into TEst and say merge, we made sure the communities integrated well and took time to get to know one another.

 

Unfortunately, out of fear of loosing more members to Speedy, we chose to accelerate the timeline, but thus far I have had 0 reason to regret the merge, the communities are as active as ever, government works excellently together and our ideals align.

Edit:

image.png.e5ec55a00ca99e0ff379c6971911318d.png

Don't judge my broken grammar in that image, smh

Edited by Lord Vader
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Viva La Cruzada

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1 hour ago, Greatest Louisiana said:

Context

Crunch was planning on going to swamp and Odin was going to straight up delete his nation and quit. By "poaching" They were staying in the game and in quack until you casted us aside. All of those who joined TIE did so of their own free will and in the case of Crunch, Odin, Obi-wan, and Dumpstercan they asked me to join. You do not own your members like property. I've one more screenshot I'll have to post in my next post but that has to do with I'm Alive who came much later.

Muffins 1.png

Odin 1.png

CRunch 1.png

Erm mate, that first screenshot makes it look more like a poach in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, BigMorf said:

Slotting someone for poaching after multiple attempts to get them to stop falling on deaf ears? That’s solid justification.

I'm sorry, but if your alliance is merging with another and someone decides that they don't want to do that and approaches other members to say if you don't want to go through with it come with me, that's not poaching.  To even plan with the notion that everyone is going to make the move and for no possibility of some members going off to do their own thing would be a failure of planning.   No matter how much time beforehand was spent on getting the communities interacting, all it comes across as them forcing people to merge.   And to top it off by attacking the guy, petty.

 

Not that it isn't enjoyable seeing a [email protected]#$ like Alan get his teeth kicked in, but wouldn't have been hard to find a more legit reason.

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:nyan:The Volleyball :nyan: 

Avanti Immortali

 

..one, two, Jimmy's coming for you...

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7 minutes ago, Lord Vader said:

Actually, if you must know, when MH learned it was a membership discussion. We began with a one-month timeline one month. We had invited everyone to a single server (the present Order server) for the purpose of gauging what general membership felt about things when MH totally flipped, claiming we had left him in the dark when in fact he was there as we were feeling the waters. We had been working with membership, we had been contacting members and gov to get what they feel and I took it into serious consideration. And we hadn't even finalized that the merger was happening at all, it was just an on-the-table situation

Unfortunately, out of fear of loosing more members to Speedy, we chose to accelerate the timeline, but thus far I have had 0 reason to regret the merge, the communities are as active as ever, government works excellently together and our ideals align.

You keep talking about MH's views, but that wasn't my point. My point is the members in the logs didn't seem to want to join the merger, and wanted to join MH instead. No coercion, no begging, no promises for success. Now it seems like you're quoting conversations you had with MH that caused animosity between you. But that animosity is not born out in the logs provided.

Its my opinion that people post these threads to gain sympathy and political clout. Get a better CB, and I'll honor that. 

7 minutes ago, Dr James Wilson said:

Not that it isn't enjoyable seeing a [email protected]#$ like Alan get his teeth kicked in, but wouldn't have been hard to find a more legit reason.

Alan is certainly a controversial character, but even he's not always wrong. 

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I am playing the game a little over a year and this feels like the weakest CB so far; not even a CB.
 

Why is it a punishable offense if I move from one alliance to another and message my friends in the previous one? What is next, attacking people because they chat with friends from the previous alliance?

 

Hope both parties have fun!

 

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For an alliance to fail at keeping old members is no ones fault besides the alliance that lost its members it means your community was not what they were after so hating say like 7 people for leaving is honestly a display of bad leadership just accept it and move on 

i pray TCM finds a new bloc all other things considered

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I mean there isn't really a reason to make an entire dissertation about someone poaching members. It happens all the time and it's with literally 400 score noobs. Both the Liberty and KECC blocs are equally irrelevant. Please exit and save everyone the displeasure of remembering you all exist. 

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6 minutes ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

gay-matt.gif

 

Calm your raging hate maan.  I understand you want me as bad as a African American drawn to KFC for fried chicken. But as close as you want me, I'd rather not be your bum buddy. If you want something like that, go drop some soap in a public/prison shower. I ain't the one for you.

I got something even better. Thanks for being a racist and homophobic !@#$ :P

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"Havgle is a piece of sh*t" -probably everyone in Orbis

 

Havglerepmeme.gif

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1 hour ago, Cedar said:

These "order" guys are a bit dramatic  for a panty raid .

I told you in the very beginning of the RoH, we're here to bring the drama.

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Viva La Cruzada

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1 hour ago, zigbigadorlou said:

I don't care what you call it. It looks like you shot the first shots, and their allies came to defend. That makes you the aggressor with a stated CB and the opposing bloc (whatever they're called) the defender who would be the ones posting an RoH. 

The issue is that – whether or not you agree with our stance on poaching – MH continually broke the agreement we had regarding his alliance.  That in itself is actionable and justifiable for slotting him, but I still think we're missing the larger point.


If Liberty had been competent at FA, this conflict would have been handled long before it ever got to this point. Instead, they rejected our attempts at mediation, continually escalated, and dared us to blitz them.  Then... they expanded beyond the counters.  While we hoped to resolve this, they turned this into a war.

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2 minutes ago, TigerFire said:

The issue is that – whether or not you agree with our stance on poaching – MH continually broke the agreement we had regarding his alliance.  That in itself is actionable and justifiable for slotting him, but I still think we're missing the larger point.


If Liberty had been competent at FA, this conflict would have been handled long before it ever got to this point. Instead, they rejected our attempts at mediation, continually escalated, and dared us to blitz them.  Then... they expanded beyond the counters.  While we hoped to resolve this, they turned this into a war.

P sure they said you were weak on a good excuse because the person clearly wasnt trying to poach he was messaging past friends Id love it if those former members would respond here 


can someone try to spread this forum talks to the Poached members and see if they want to respond


PS not saying liberty is good at FA because Alan is awful at it he is the one doing it also but this is not something he was wrong about


lastly i hope TCM leaves this bloc for a different bloc 

also retirement is weird i have no desire to login in game but i feel like I want to read old forums sections and relive stuff 

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