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"Yeah Scarfalot, your in KETOGG, which means you hate blocs growing, which means you want to destroy them, which makes your arguments invalid, which makes ALL of KETOGG's arguments invalid, because they are obviously trying to undermine blocs, by disagreeing with us, because you can't disagree with us, otherwise you want to destroy blocs, ALL blocs, and because BK is the one you are arguing against, you are also against BK, because you are arguing against them, which makes your arguments invalid, which makes me right, which makes every point you make wrong, because your in KETOGG, and that makes everything we say right, and you can't argue against that...." 

Haha.... Oh.

 

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Guest Curufinwe
1 hour ago, Buorhann said:

Alright, so I count 3, maybe 4, points to discuss over the course of almost 3 years.  In all actuality you only had 1 significant moment (And no, it’s not the disbanding of IQ because that’s laughable).  

I’ll create a separate thread about this when I have time once at home.

I’ll separate it between the Golden Era/Pre-Shifty Edgelord years to the Boring Era.

Seems rather odd you state EMC/Syndisphere a few times in that too.

It's almost like things don't happen in isolation - you can't really understand what happened in Knightfall without understanding the impact of TKR's FA choices over the preceding year or so, for example.  But, rather than having yet another circular argument over whether BK was suitably 'dynamic' for your tastes over the past couple of years, let's flip it around and address the question why you feel that you, specifically, are uniquely qualified to measure that.  After all, when we examine your record and the record of the AAs you've been associated with over the past couple of years, you haven't exactly been a beacon of dynamism yourself.

1) The formation of IQ saw you as a leading figure in Mensa, which ultimately disbanded in August 2017.  Now I reread the Mensa farewell post and the rationale behind you guys ceasing to exist seems to be a mix of flagging interest in the game and dissatisfaction over Sheepy's econ update (which I cited in my earlier post as a contributing factor to fewer wars overall), but the fact remains that the departure of such a strong community likely did more harm to Orbis dynamism () than anything BK has done.  And it's not like that can be laid at BK's feet either - you guys had a steadily declining membership long before IQ formed, which suggests that Mensa's gov (and by extension you, as a leading member of Mensa's gov) where unable to sustain sufficient interest to keep the 80 or so people you brought to Orbis engaged in PW, which is unfortunate given Mensa's role as a risktaker in FA.  

2) If I recall correctly, your next move after Mensa disbanded was to join TKR, which was hardly a game-shaking move given their preponderance post-Tiers.  You then sat there quietly (unless you had some sort of position that I don't recall?) until TJest, where you functioned as Partisan's mascot for a few weeks until TJest disbanded.  Given that the gap between Mensa disbanding and TJest forming was around 6 months (August 2017 to February 2018), it appears that you didn't do much of significance during that period either, which somewhat undercuts the reputation you're trying to claim as an authority on dynamism.  Even in TJest your influence seemed to be more as a propaganda tool rather than due to anything you were actively doing (other than getting zeroed, of course), since the whole 'Buorhann the barbarian thing' simply reflected the fact that you were squarely in our kill zone the entire war.

3) But hey, following that you formed TGH, the elite warfighting AA () and participated in AC, so that was a thing you did.  Except, as has frequently been stated, TGH joined the war as mercs, which would imply you weren't too central to the planning of the war against IQ proper and most of the credit for that should probably go to KT and Rose, which actually spearheaded the hit.  Still, you did fight, so good job, but then you agreed to a 6 month NAP as part of the peace terms, which as I recall most people regarded as a less noteworthy achievement.  After all, if you're as committed to dynamism as your criticism of BK seems to imply, I'd have thought you would have refused to sign off an agreement that would have prevented war for a significant period, something critics of your decision pointed out repeatedly.  So not exactly your finest moment, at least as far as your role as arbiter of Orbis dynamism () goes.

4) Now,  a couple of months after that you did end up fighting TKR and friends, but that was completely involuntary on your part, meaning that we can't exactly give you too much credit for that.  I guess you didn't disband your AA (again), so that was something, but it would be hard to claim that being the target of a curbstomp that resulted from leaked discussions of a notional hit on TKR  indicates any sort of agency on your part.  You guys did draw it out and demonstrate that you can be quite stubborn in war (something BK did in Tiers, so we have that in common!), but I don't think that we can count getting rolled due to an OPSEC screwup as a particularly dynamic move on your part, though at least you gave EMC something to do over the summer, so there's that.

5) Under your leadership, TGH then sat there quietly, for, what, 10 months?  You guys were one of the few major AAs that didn't participate in Knightfall (I don't think we can count your decision to roll TRF for a few minutes while nobody was looking as meaningful participation) and then went back to sleep until the war ended.  You did sign some treaties after the war, so good job there - I guess BK and TGH have that in common as well, although we also shed quite a few agreements too, and we can't say the same for TGH in that regard.

6) All of this brings us to the one time in the past two years that you did proactively do something besides exist (which really is the bare minimum we can expect of any person who is still breathing, so I can't really praise you for successfully existing).  I will give you guys credit for hitting Chaos, since I don't think that was a move that anyone really expected given your record, but it definitely represented a departure from your norm of not really doing much at all.  So you get points for that.

So yeah, there's your record during the 'Boring Era.'  Now, given that you did precisely one thing that can be classified as exerting independent agency during that period (hitting Chaos) and the rest of your record was either 1) sitting around doing nothing in Mensa, TKR and TGH, 2) signing a lengthy NAP,  3) getting rolled due to an OPSEC leak and 4) sitting out the last global war, why is it that you feel that you're in a position to criticize BK for not contributing enough to keeping PW interesting?

Edited by Curufinwe
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Loving the overly defensive wall of texts and passive aggressiveness there.  Also the deflections.

Its almost like you’re worried.

Fear not Curu, you’ll be entertained.  BK also won’t be the only alliance analyzed by yours truely.  I do plan on doing a series.

Just fwiw:  My first pick was Syndicate, since I got quite the reaction after I stated on my show that I’d “Kill” them in a FMK segment.

Your post just grabbed my attention, though.  So I’ll do Syndicate after BK.

Edited by Buorhann
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Guest Curufinwe
6 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Loving the overly defensive wall of texts and passive aggressiveness there.  Also the deflections.

Its almost like you’re worried.

Fear not Curu, you’ll be entertained.  BK also won’t be the only alliance analyzed by yours truely.  I do plan on doing a series.

So you're not disputing the summary I provided of your record over the past couple of years?  Glad we could agree on that, then.  Although given that you've chosen not to address the content of what I had to say, do you really feel that you're the right person to do a series on dynamism?  Maybe we should find someone a little bit more proactive to take on that role ? 

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39 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

 

Nitpicking a bit, but isn't what your doing  Ad Hominem and Tu Quoque...

Just putting it out there, and I don't have very much experience in the field, but Buorhann being a hypocrite, which is debatable, or less qualified to argue or in your own words "why is it that you feel that you're in a position to criticize BK for not contributing enough to keeping PW interesting?"

Doesn't really make Buorhann less valid to say what he wants on BK

Just my take on it 

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Guest Curufinwe
14 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

I’m still at work.  Are you not patient enough for me to create a new thread so we’ll stop flooding this one?

I am sure Citadel will appreciate your belated concern for the integrity of their thread.  However, considering that you touched off this discussion by posting this...

11 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Uhh, pretty sure you did more than just TKR.

Can you (or anyone in BK) list off the “significant” changes BK contributed since IQ?

Pretty sure, other than signing a bunch of Protectorates, you contributed more to the stagnation of the game than anything else.  I guess you could count that as a significant change considering how the game went a complete 180.  From activity to stagnation.

... I'm not sure why that's a particular concern for you now.  After all, the question I asked was why, given your record, do you feel that you're uniquely qualified to assess the dynamism of other people, a discussion you appear to be trying to deflect by moving the conversation to a different topic without addressing a rather important point that has been raised regarding your credibility.  You're not concerned that the glass house you've constructed around yourself is vulnerable to stones, are you?

8 minutes ago, Robert Taber said:

Nitpicking a bit, but isn't what your doing  Ad Hominem and Tu Quoque...

Just putting it out there, and I don't have very much experience in the field, but Buorhann being a hypocrite, which is debatable, or less qualified to argue or in your own words "why is it that you feel that you're in a position to criticize BK for not contributing enough to keeping PW interesting?"

Doesn't really make Buorhann less valid to say what he wants on BK

Just my take on it 

Yeah, but opinions are like a**holes - everyone has one and most of them stink.  I'm just highlighting the fact that Buorhann's stinks more than most in this particular instance ? 

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20 hours ago, Sir Scarfalot said:

hit Rosesphere just because they're harboring Akuryo

I'm not going to pretend like I'm following this thread, but I did notice this line, and I just wanted to put it out there that if any fledgling alliances are looking to make a name for themselves in Orbis, this would be a fantastic move. Alternatively, for those who are too scared to smack Rose directly, I'd also suggest just slotting Akuryo and ignoring everybody else because rolling him is, frankly, the only part that matters.  

(Aku, you're welcome; if you get a war because of us, me and Scarf will take a payment of 500m each.)

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10 minutes ago, Partisan said:

I'm not going to pretend like I'm following this thread, but I did notice this line, and I just wanted to put it out there that if any fledgling alliances are looking to make a name for themselves in Orbis, this would be a fantastic move. Alternatively, for those who are too scared to smack Rose directly, I'd also suggest just slotting Akuryo and ignoring everybody else because rolling him is, frankly, the only part that matters.  

(Aku, you're welcome; if you get a war because of us, me and Scarf will take a payment of 500m each.)

Nice to see I've become so important. You two better be paying me 500m was tho.

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19 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

 

Fair enough

 

Also Dammit, I thought (@TheREALPartisan) Partisan replied to this thread, but this just makes the other thread more funnier. 

 

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4 hours ago, Robert Taber said:

"Yeah Scarfalot, your in KETOGG, which means you hate blocs growing, which means you want to destroy them, which makes your arguments invalid, which makes ALL of KETOGG's arguments invalid, because they are obviously trying to undermine blocs, by disagreeing with us, because you can't disagree with us, otherwise you want to destroy blocs, ALL blocs, and because BK is the one you are arguing against, you are also against BK, because you are arguing against them, which makes your arguments invalid, which makes me right, which makes every point you make wrong, because your in KETOGG, and that makes everything we say right, and you can't argue against that...." 

Haha.... Oh.

 

Sadly Sheepy hasn't implemented a shrug emote, so I'll have to give it to you here

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And there you go

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2 hours ago, Curufinwe said:

It's almost like things don't happen in isolation - you can't really understand what happened in Knightfall without understanding the impact of TKR's FA choices over the preceding year or so, for example.  But, rather than having yet another circular argument over whether BK was suitably 'dynamic' for your tastes over the past couple of years, let's flip it around and address the question why you feel that you, specifically, are uniquely qualified to measure that.  After all, when we examine your record and the record of the AAs you've been associated with over the past couple of years, you haven't exactly been a beacon of dynamism yourself.

1) The formation of IQ saw you as a leading figure in Mensa, which ultimately disbanded in August 2017.  Now I reread the Mensa farewell post and the rationale behind you guys ceasing to exist seems to be a mix of flagging interest in the game and dissatisfaction over Sheepy's econ update (which I cited in my earlier post as a contributing factor to fewer wars overall), but the fact remains that the departure of such a strong community likely did more harm to Orbis dynamism () than anything BK has done.  And it's not like that can be laid at BK's feet either - you guys had a steadily declining membership long before IQ formed, which suggests that Mensa's gov (and by extension you, as a leading member of Mensa's gov) where unable to sustain sufficient interest to keep the 80 or so people you brought to Orbis engaged in PW, which is unfortunate given Mensa's role as a risktaker in FA.  

2) If I recall correctly, your next move after Mensa disbanded was to join TKR, which was hardly a game-shaking move given their preponderance post-Tiers.  You then sat there quietly (unless you had some sort of position that I don't recall?) until TJest, where you functioned as Partisan's mascot for a few weeks until TJest disbanded.  Given that the gap between Mensa disbanding and TJest forming was around 6 months (August 2017 to February 2018), it appears that you didn't do much of significance during that period either, which somewhat undercuts the reputation you're trying to claim as an authority on dynamism.  Even in TJest your influence seemed to be more as a propaganda tool rather than due to anything you were actively doing (other than getting zeroed, of course), since the whole 'Buorhann the barbarian thing' simply reflected the fact that you were squarely in our kill zone the entire war.

3) But hey, following that you formed TGH, the elite warfighting AA () and participated in AC, so that was a thing you did.  Except, as has frequently been stated, TGH joined the war as mercs, which would imply you weren't too central to the planning of the war against IQ proper and most of the credit for that should probably go to KT and Rose, which actually spearheaded the hit.  Still, you did fight, so good job, but then you agreed to a 6 month NAP as part of the peace terms, which as I recall most people regarded as a less noteworthy achievement.  After all, if you're as committed to dynamism as your criticism of BK seems to imply, I'd have thought you would have refused to sign off an agreement that would have prevented war for a significant period, something critics of your decision pointed out repeatedly.  So not exactly your finest moment, at least as far as your role as arbiter of Orbis dynamism () goes.

4) Now,  a couple of months after that you did end up fighting TKR and friends, but that was completely involuntary on your part, meaning that we can't exactly give you too much credit for that.  I guess you didn't disband your AA (again), so that was something, but it would be hard to claim that being the target of a curbstomp that resulted from leaked discussions of a notional hit on TKR  indicates any sort of agency on your part.  You guys did draw it out and demonstrate that you can be quite stubborn in war (something BK did in Tiers, so we have that in common!), but I don't think that we can count getting rolled due to an OPSEC screwup as a particularly dynamic move on your part, though at least you gave EMC something to do over the summer, so there's that.

5) Under your leadership, TGH then sat there quietly, for, what, 10 months?  You guys were one of the few major AAs that didn't participate in Knightfall (I don't think we can count your decision to roll TRF for a few minutes while nobody was looking as meaningful participation) and then went back to sleep until the war ended.  You did sign some treaties after the war, so good job there - I guess BK and TGH have that in common as well, although we also shed quite a few agreements too, and we can't say the same for TGH in that regard.

6) All of this brings us to the one time in the past two years that you did proactively do something besides exist (which really is the bare minimum we can expect of any person who is still breathing, so I can't really praise you for successfully existing).  I will give you guys credit for hitting Chaos, since I don't think that was a move that anyone really expected given your record, but it definitely represented a departure from your norm of not really doing much at all.  So you get points for that.

So yeah, there's your record during the 'Boring Era.'  Now, given that you did precisely one thing that can be classified as exerting independent agency during that period (hitting Chaos) and the rest of your record was either 1) sitting around doing nothing in Mensa, TKR and TGH, 2) signing a lengthy NAP,  3) getting rolled due to an OPSEC leak and 4) sitting out the last global war, why is it that you feel that you're in a position to criticize BK for not contributing enough to keeping PW interesting?

Don't disrespect Dio and the great Mensa. Those were hard times indeed.

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For some reason I feel like this bloc is near the top of those most likely to be rolled next; except I don’t think BK would actually need to defend this bloc. The Yakuza treaty is all which is tying BK & probably just hasn’t been canceled yet.

So probably best BK just cut their losses here instead of arguing with those who want them to drop as many allies as possible.:P

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14 hours ago, Buorhann said:

Loving the overly defensive wall of texts and passive aggressiveness there.  Also the deflections.

Its almost like you’re worried.

Fear not Curu, you’ll be entertained.  BK also won’t be the only alliance analyzed by yours truely.  I do plan on doing a series.

Just fwiw:  My first pick was Syndicate, since I got quite the reaction after I stated on my show that I’d “Kill” them in a FMK segment.

Your post just grabbed my attention, though.  So I’ll do Syndicate after BK.

fricking do it then. I will fricking tear tCW apart.

 

And then i'll shitpost you back.

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On 6/11/2019 at 1:49 PM, Curufinwe said:

1) The formation of IQ saw you as a leading figure in Mensa, which ultimately disbanded in August 2017.  Now I reread the Mensa farewell post and the rationale behind you guys ceasing to exist seems to be a mix of flagging interest in the game and dissatisfaction over Sheepy's econ update (which I cited in my earlier post as a contributing factor to fewer wars overall), but the fact remains that the departure of such a strong community likely did more harm to Orbis dynamism () than anything BK has done.  And it's not like that can be laid at BK's feet either - you guys had a steadily declining membership long before IQ formed, which suggests that Mensa's gov (and by extension you, as a leading member of Mensa's gov) where unable to sustain sufficient interest to keep the 80 or so people you brought to Orbis engaged in PW, which is unfortunate given Mensa's role as a risktaker in FA.  

 

Hi, posting as one of the actual leaders of Mensa (Pfeiffer/Avruch the others). 

We quit the game because its terrible and run by a child.

Sorry we aren't around to entertain you guys. If it weren't for *checks notes* 8 others having stockholm syndrome and continuing to play in Guardian, I'd be out of here as well. 

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21 minutes ago, Vanek26 said:

Hi, posting as one of the actual leaders of Mensa (Pfeiffer/Avruch the others). 

We quit the game because its terrible and run by a child.

Sorry we aren't around to entertain you guys. If it weren't for *checks notes* 8 others having stockholm syndrome and continuing to play in Guardian, I'd be out of here as well. 

He re-read the farewell post, which I VERY MUCH CLARIFIED why our community left (Not just 1 change, Curu, but multiple poorly timed changes).

I didn’t want to address his post because, well, he’s an idiot.

By the way, how long did we keep our alliance tie with BK after Curu fricked that up for us?  Wasn’t it just 14 hours?

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3 hours ago, Buorhann said:

He re-read the farewell post, which I VERY MUCH CLARIFIED why our community left (Not just 1 change, Curu, but multiple poorly timed changes).

I didn’t want to address his post because, well, he’s an idiot.

By the way, how long did we keep our alliance tie with BK after Curu fricked that up for us?  Wasn’t it just 14 hours?

Remembering would require giving a shit, so... no fricking clue. The game got really boring, we basically "won" as Pfeiffer always claims, etc. I guess you could call that a failure on our part to "sustain interest" but I think that's a stretch. 

Most of those of us who remain are what we call "2 clickers" in Guardian, except for Vanek because he is a legendary machine. 2-clicking is a level of activity far, far below whatever might be required to remember or understand half of what Curu wrote in his post above...

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