Inquisition Flight 420 to Nassau - UPN Removed

[Buorhann]

Lol Milton

[Smith]

 

 

It's really not an issue. We're prepared to fight until you either surrender or sheepy gets a girlfriend and shuts the servers down. 

[ComradeMilton]

Good to know. We feel the same way. Time to get to selling steel and aluminum.

[Shiho Nishizumi]

Selling? I thought that you had hundreds of millions to keep this going.

[Cypher]

Good to know. We feel the same way. Time to get to selling steel and aluminum.

You've finally got some steel in your nation?

[Felkey]

Last war your side whined about the length constantly. Can you now take a lengthy war without whining?

I think your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. I just told you we were more than willing to assist with you sphere suicide attempt. I don't really know how this qualifies as complaining. Especially when your side has done nothing but whine about how mean we are because we won't let you off with no consequences for attacking us on a garbage cb. Not to mention falling flat on your faces while your​ allies continue to leave you to your stupidity.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Felkey

[Bollocks]

1. Again saying it's a flimsy CB when it's born out to have  a basis and was at a time when tensions were already high due to belligerence on the ther side.

2. We all know the tier/activity issues and the difference in blitzes. It was always going to be an uphill battle and no one expected an easy win just because we happened to have more nations. Fast counters can erase a numerical disadvantage if it's a  bunch of down declaring on people after consolidating a tier you already control, which is how most of the damage happened.

3.see above

4. Exactly. The first round would have to gone perfectly for any other outcome other than a grind. The fighting style demands a commitment to grinding it out continuously more than is normal here. 

5. They didn't grind down most people after the first round very fast. When peace talks were opened, it was right before a huge blitz that had mixed results(that's being charitable) and people reacted naturally to that. 

6.White peace has precedent.

7/8. With admit defeat, everyone knows the real intent behind it. It's not just some words. There is a very specific political purpose behind your side insisting on it and that's where the issues will lie. It's not just a word here.  The agenda behind it is the problem and the reason why people have been willing to fight on it.

 

Alright bae, series of events^revised as expertly spun by Roq:

 

1. IQ activates flimsy superlegit^tm CB, "but pls we need validation and certification of its superlegit^tm CB status so we're proposing it as the #1 term in peace talks"

2. IQ+lackies attacks Syndisphere with numerical advantage, piles 7 alliances on t$, but really it was only like just 3 alliances cuz IQ is playing with a handicap (aka not gud) 

3. Syndisphere rekts IQ+lackies despite the post-handicap (aka not gud) adjusted numerical disadvantage

4. IQ is then like: "aha! this was our plan all along to get ground to dust but little do they know the dust will get in their eyes!"

5. Syndisphere is like "ok" while they proceed to put on some goggles and grind down IQ more. JR continues to print some fat stacks in the corner. 

6. IQ starts bawwwing "wahhh, this didn't go as planned. This dust is getting in our eyes. I know we attacked yall with our superlegit^tm CB, can't yall understand and validate? Pls bb we don't want an L to tarnish our record, don't you know the precedent of our W's? White pls (2x)"

7. Syndisphere: "Just admit defeat and we're done here"

8. IQ "I can't even, you're doing this out of spite, how dare you tell us to admit to the reality of the situation, you had the gall to be attacked by us and then demand such reasonable things, this is clearly a show of wanton propagation of Syndisphere triumphalism, I feel like my political diversity is being oppressed wahhhh"

[Darth Revan]

 

Alright bae, series of events^revised as expertly spun by Roq:

 

1. IQ activates flimsy superlegit^tm CB, "but pls we need validation and certification of its superlegit^tm CB status so we're proposing it as the #1 term in peace talks"

2. IQ+lackies attacks Syndisphere with numerical advantage, piles 7 alliances on t$, but really it was only like just 3 alliances cuz IQ is playing with a handicap (aka not gud) 

3. Syndisphere rekts IQ+lackies despite the post-handicap (aka not gud) adjusted numerical disadvantage

4. IQ is then like: "aha! this was our plan all along to get ground to dust but little do they know the dust will get in their eyes!"

5. Syndisphere is like "ok" while they proceed to put on some goggles and grind down IQ more. JR continues to print some fat stacks in the corner. 

6. IQ starts bawwwing "wahhh, this didn't go as planned. This dust is getting in our eyes. I know we attacked yall with our superlegit^tm CB, can't yall understand and validate? Pls bb we don't want an L to tarnish our record, don't you know the precedent of our W's? White pls (2x)"

7. Syndisphere: "Just admit defeat and we're done here"

8. IQ "I can't even, you're doing this out of spite, how dare you tell us to admit to the reality of the situation, you had the gall to be attacked by us and then demand such reasonable things, this is clearly a show of wanton propagation of Syndisphere triumphalism, I feel like my political diversity is being oppressed wahhhh"

10/10 would read again.  

[ComradeMilton]

Selling? I thought that you had hundreds of millions to keep this going. We do. No reason not to play the market.

 

 

You've finally got some steel in your nation? No. Who keeps steel?

 

 

I think your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. I just told you we were more than willing to assist with you sphere suicide attempt. I don't really know how this qualifies as complaining. Especially when your side has done nothing but whine about how mean we are because we won't let you off with no consequences for attacking us on a garbage cb. Not to mention falling flat on your faces while your​ allies continue to leave you to your stupidity. Reading comprehension's fine, thanks. Just don't agree with any of the lies you guys like posting so much.

[Buorhann]

Exactly what lies were posted?

[Charles Bolivar]

Everything is lies clearly. No such thing as truth apparently.

[Darth Revan]

The lies Syndisphere post sicken me.  I'm going to go into VM and complain more from there. 

[Zaxon]

7/8. With admit defeat, everyone knows the real intent behind it. It's not just some words. There is a very specific political purpose behind your side insisting on it and that's where the issues will lie. It's not just a word here. The agenda behind it is the problem and the reason why people have been willing to fight on it.

It's in essence the counterpart of what Bollocks said IQ's agenda was(protecting a record) except with a lot more political baggage behind it( further propagating  Syndisphere triumphalism, demoralizing/humiliating the opposition, using it to discourage political diversity).

 

 

Seriously that's what this hold up is all about ?

 

Winning and loosing are apart of the game no one should ever expect to be on the winning side every time. Accepting defeat doesn't discourage diversity it should encourage it by learning from your mistakes thus forcing you to evolve and choose different paths. Diversity is more hampered by the the consolidation of the web treaties into lopsided super blocs.

[Anneal]

Seriously that's what this hold up is all about ?

 

Winning and loosing are apart of the game no one should ever expect to be on the winning side every time. Accepting defeat doesn't discourage diversity it should encourage it by learning from your mistakes thus forcing you to evolve and choose different paths. Diversity is more hampered by the the consolidation of the web treaties into lopsided super blocs.

 

Well actually, BK is the only one on the IQ side who has a "no-defeat" record, some IQ alliances haven't been winning any wars for a while. NPO has never been on the winning side. I'm not saying any side has committed any wrong, but some people are frustrated, which is probably the reason some IQ members antagonize Syndisphere so much. 

 

It would be real nice if we could get a third major bloc though, spice some things up.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Anneal

[durmij]

It would be real nice if we could get a third major bloc though, spice some things up.

Just buy more nukes. 

[ComradeMilton]

Takes more than one group to cause an argument. Your accounts as posted are inaccurate. Roquentin is accurate.

[Buorhann]

Well Milton, you're definitely filling that void Kastor left.

[durmij]

For some reason I'm getting deja vu about my time talking with Ibrahim...

[Charles Bolivar]

I think roq is more accurate than Milton to be honest

[Roquentin]

Are you kidding?

 

US: came to the table hoping to resolve the conflict peacefully and avoid grudge matches like a month ago now. At the time we were winning by every metric, your initial efforts had failed miserably.

 

YOU: "We will not accept punitive terms or reparations".

 

US: Fine. So we request an admission of surrender with no punitive terms or reparations.

 

YOU: Trolling the peace chats, posturing (despite the fact you were losing), and saying "we will not admit defeat".

 

US: Fine. It was early in the war, you still felt you had the chance to turn the tide against us.

 

So time goes by, and you've still made no real progress towards actually turning the tide in your favor. You've yet to pin t$, the alliance you put 7 alliances on, you've yet to secure the mid tier (or the lower tier in some fronts) and the economic gap is widening.

 

YOU: Try to poach our members into a prisoner alliance, using some rather deceptive messages to do so, and you continued to insist you'll turn the tide in your favor.

 

YOU: Suddenly in a brilliant gesture of generosity, "admit defeat in the upper tier" effectively trying to play word games in order to get white peace.

 

US: Yer no, you hit us and you are losing, and you should just admit it and accept defeat.

 

YOU: Since then you've tried to rewrite and reword the peace terms, all some form or variation of white peace, despite not actually being in a position to do so.

 

YOU: Yet again, in a sudden show of pretend generosity, you offer to concede to us on the terms that we

 

A: Legitimize your stupid CB

B: Admit that we only won by a "narrow victory".

 

US: Your CB was bs, and this wasn't a narrow victory.

 

YOU: Rage quit the peace talks.

 

 

CONCLUSION: You are defeated. You know you are defeated. We know you are defeated. 90% of the game knows you are defeated. You are choosing to drag this out because you'd rather spite us and not admit this, at the expense of your own members and ours, then admit it and concede.

 

Also I find it amusing that you cite "demoralizing/humiliating the opponent" and "triumphalism" when IQ postured just as much and attempted to do all the same things (prisoner alliance much?).

 

The reason we want you to admit defeat is because we defeated you. Not because of the silly motivations you've thought up in your head.

 

 

I love how you ignored all the facts inconvenient to your narrative here.

 

Let's show the real story

 

You: Ask for a joint chan right before you launch a huge downsell blitz. Much of it doesn't work out and sets the tone for the peace discussions. An alliance representative goes out his way to sow discord on our side by trying to make it seem like I was keeping the prospect of peace talks a secret.

 

Us: Some people were understandably pissed. 

 

You: Won't make any concessions. Don't actually have the ability to keep anyone pinned down that doesn't build up into downdec range.

 

Us: PoW is tried out as a propaganda thing since a lot of nations were pinned down. 

 

You: Express indignation despite your side having done indy terms in both Silent and Alpha. 

 

Us: offer to concede we  lost in the upper tier, which was true. 

 

You: Refuse to make concessions.

 

Us: We try to compromise and reach a solution. When it becomes futile to continue to do so, we decide it's no longer productive to be in the channel.

 

 

Not gonna bother going through the rest, since it boils down to, IQ side offers compromises and you dismiss them entirely.

 

 

Conclusion: If you feel you won so much, you wouldn't need anything more than what was offered. There's an obvious emotional investment in humiliating the IQ side by making them admit defeat when they are not prepared to do so. I'm referring to the long history of triumphalism and domination of the political narrative, which created a stifling atmosphere. Being dominant militarily is one thing, almost having absolute control of the game's narrative is another.

 

 

 

With Karl's post, he was just saying if you feel they were defeated .and everyone else agrees with you, that it shouldn't need to be agreed on by us not that he acknowledged it.

 

There is no real other reason other than protecting a record with the political baggage involved with that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously that's what this hold up is all about ?

 

Winning and loosing are apart of the game no one should ever expect to be on the winning side every time. Accepting defeat doesn't discourage diversity it should encourage it by learning from your mistakes thus forcing you to evolve and choose different paths. Diversity is more hampered by the the consolidation of the web treaties into lopsided super blocs.

 

 

No. I said Bollocks was attributing that to us. I never said we were actually protecting a record, but Syndisphere on the other hand is. Many on our side don't feel defeated.  Syndisphere favors wars where their opponent is wanting to surrender after the first round: NPOFT,  Papers, Please and is then kept for several against their will so this doesn't fit the pattern.  I sure as hell don't expect to be on the winning side all the time. In this context, it hasn't encouraged anything. The typical pattern in this world so far is typically any grouping outside of  Syndisphere ends up being worn out and demoralized to the extent where many simply give up on really trying. It's not the type of atmosphere you suggest. The aura of inevitability has had a toxic effect and simply makes people inclined to join Syndisphere for security. Web treaties don't need to be in super blocs to consolidate kill diversity. There was a unipolar situation until recently when a few alliances like BK, Cornerstone, and Zodiac decided not to continue to perpetuate it.  

 

edit: context

Edited May 26, 2017 by Roquentin

[Felkey]

Talk about ignoring inconvenient facts, I love how you don't acknowledge that we already dropped our terms from punitive reps to a simple surrender roq. Yet you, despite being on the losing side had yet to move off of white peace. Talk about inflexible.

 

As for the blitz, irrelevant, we were still at war and we aren't​ gonna stop fighting and give you an opening just because we are talking about peace, not actually signing a treaty. Unlike you, we don't waste our advantages so easily.

 

Your so called "compromise" involved us legitimizing an attack against us. One you still haven't provided any real proof or justification for beyond your own paranoia. That wasn't going to happen, we aren't going to throw our allies under the bus just because you guys feel butthurt that you failed yet again, this time with an even greater numbers advantage (over 50% Nation count).

 

You want this war to end? Stop throwing a temper tantrum and admit you lost. Or show us something that legitimizes your cb. We know you can't considering I even suggested you redact all names and identifiable information to protect confidentiality and curu and others still refused.

 

We already met you half way by moving from reps to surrender, we aren't also going to do your part for you.

 

Side note: I say we investigate Roq for spiking the IQ Kool Aid and drugging the rest of IQ. Must take some seriously powerful​ drugs to make them think they are in an advantageous position. Especially when several of them know what real winning is as they​ came from OO. I mean I know relatively speaking for NPO this must feel like a success, considering their track record, but the rest of you IQ guys should know better.

[Roquentin]

Talk about ignoring inconvenient facts, I love how you don't acknowledge that we already dropped our terms from punitive reps to a simple surrender roq. Yet you, despite being on the losing side had yet to move off of white peace. Talk about inflexible.

 

As for the blitz, irrelevant, we were still at war and we aren't​ gonna stop fighting and give you an opening just because we are talking about peace, not actually signing a treaty. Unlike you, we don't waste our advantages so easily.

 

Your so called "compromise" involved us legitimizing an attack against us. One you still haven't provided any real proof or justification for beyond your own paranoia. That wasn't going to happen, we aren't going to throw our allies under the bus just because you guys feel butthurt that you failed yet again, this time with an even greater numbers advantage (over 50% Nation count).

 

You want this war to end? Stop throwing a temper tantrum and admit you lost. Or show us something that legitimizes your cb. We know you can't considering I even suggested you redact all names and identifiable information to protect confidentiality and curu and others still refused.

 

We already met you half way by moving from reps to surrender, we aren't also going to do your part for you.

 

Side note: I say we investigate Roq for spiking the IQ Kool Aid and drugging the rest of IQ. Must take some seriously powerful​ drugs to make them think they are in an advantageous position. Especially when several of them know what real winning is as they​ came from OO. I mean I know relatively speaking for NPO this must feel like a success, considering their track record, but the rest of you IQ guys should know better.

 

Um, you were offered something in between white peace and surrender already(admission of upper tier loss and then the newest one). We ruled out reps at first. You added reps as an escalation after. 

 

It's relevant since conducting a blitz during negotiations has implications. Simple as that. It shows bad faith and a desire to intimidate to set the tone for the talks. 

 

Given we were willing to consider dropping that item and it was communicated privately, this doesn't make sense. You dismissed the other aspects of the compromise as well. If it had been "we reject #1, but we'll be fine with the rest", this would be over. 

 

When/if they feel comfortable with it being shared, it'll be shared. It'll have to be okay with the parties in question.

 

It's not meeting halfway when reps weren't on the table to begin with.

 

I don't really think we said we were winning and I certainly haven't tried to convince anyone in IQ that we're in an advantageous position. We've always said it's a stalemate.  

[Shiho Nishizumi]

 

 

 We do. No reason not to play the market.

 

By 'playing the market', you'd be playing yourself since the current prices favour buyers for reselling later (or buyers that do it to replenish their WC), not sellers.

 

But hey, that means lost $$$ for you, so by all means, go ahead.

[Sketchy]

I love how you ignored all the facts inconvenient to your narrative here.

 

Let's show the real story

 

You: Ask for a joint chan right before you launch a huge downsell blitz. Much of it doesn't work out and sets the tone for the peace discussions. An alliance representative goes out his way to sow discord on our side by trying to make it seem like I was keeping the prospect of peace talks a secret.

 

Us: Some people were understandably pissed. 

 

You: Won't make any concessions. Don't actually have the ability to keep anyone pinned down that doesn't build up into downdec range.

 

Us: PoW is tried out as a propaganda thing since a lot of nations were pinned down. 

 

You: Express indignation despite your side having done indy terms in both Silent and Alpha. 

 

Us: offer to concede we  lost in the upper tier, which was true. 

 

You: Refuse to make concessions.

 

Us: We try to compromise and reach a solution. When it becomes futile to continue to do so, we decide it's no longer productive to be in the channel.

 

 

 

I find it hilarious that you consider white peace to be you making concessions. Rewording it into various different forms doesn't change the fact that it is white peace.

 

White peace is the best possible outcome your side can hope for because you have lost.  

White peace is the worst possible outcome for our side, because we won. 

 

Best case scenario, you can argue we are "winning" but haven't won, but considering you have no hope of actually winning or even pushing things to an even position and we've bested you in every metric and the only reason you think you haven't lost is literally "because we feel it to be true", I think its fair to say you have lost.

 

As for the prisoner alliance,  I find it hilarious that you brought up the one in Silent War, considering it was BK who imposed it on you and I was on "your side" during that war. But if you read my original comment I pointed out that the messages sent out to advertise the so called "DMZ" were deceptive. Which was the main problem I had with it.

 

Neither side has made any real concessions all war. Don't try and pretend otherwise. The only difference between us is we opened discussions with the perfectly reasonable position of you admitting defeat, and maintained that for over a month, and you opened with the position of white peace despite the war not being close at all, and then tried to propose the same offer but dress it up all nice to us (including asking for apologies? For what getting attacked?).

 

Then you finally decided to shift from white peace but added additional terms like legitimizing your CB and protecting your feelings, and only conceding to a narrow victory (those billions of damage difference between us and your inability to drag down our upper tier or secure our mid tier says otherwise).

Edited May 26, 2017 by Sketchy

[Felkey]

Actually we said we don't accept #1 and your definition of narrow and you all threw a fit and left the channel. Also since we are talking about specific terms what was the point of #2?

 

As for the blitz we saw it as keeping our foot on the gas. So you can disagree if it was bad taste or not, but until we definitively end the war, we aren't going to hold back.

 

As far as many of us were concerned we started by looking for reps. As has been pointed out previously, your side said you didn't like reps and we said ok no reps but you surrender. And that was towards the very beginning of peace talks when the channel devolved into a trolling pit.

 

We then waited for weeks for you to give a viable counter offer since we had removed reps. However you stubbornly stood on white peace without any flexibility until last week.

 

The reps then went back on the table because you have insisted on dragging this on beyond a reasonable time frame so we felt forcing the reps issue was justified, as many of us feel our members have earned it.

 

So if you want to come back to the negotiating table now that you've had a chance to cool off, by all means, we're waiting.

 

I think you need to have a talk with rache (maybe seeker and curu?) Because at least one of them has at a minimum implied it.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Felkey