Syndicate declaration of war on the New Pacific Order and the United Purple Nations

[Buorhann]

You got me.  I'm Edgelord Hippo Master of Orbis.

[Placentica]

Hey Steve. Remember that time last night where you accused me of inciting people to hate you IRL without a shed of evidence, and then k/banned me when I called you on it?

 

Yeah. Me too. Can you try to stay away from the ad hominem attacks concerning me? Thanks.

Hey Roger.  I remember when we gave you evidence and you rejected it as "this is not evidence".  Then we gave you more and you said that wasn't evidence either.  Then we said it's all over the forums and you said "where?".  Then when we showed you where it was, you deflected.  I remember in peace talks when you added terms on us for peace, but keep telling everyone you have offered "just white peace" because those "terms" weren't "terms".

 

Anyone can see that you've gone after me personally to manufacture a war and sure, when you have that much vitriol it's obvious what is going to come of it.  And you act like you handle each instance "internally", but I have no way to tell and they keep happening so I'm left to assume you really are just lying about that yet again.

 

The problem with talking to you and the reason you were booted is that when you are presented with facts, you call them opinions.  When presented with evidence you claim it's no such thing.  When presented with the cold-hard truth that you are manipulative and lie to your membership, to your allies, and to everyone else, you act like you are some beacon of truth.  You can't even tell the truth about your aggressive war on NPO/UPN.

 

Just like when you were caught in a lie on these very forums, about the 1v1 offer, you then deflect and plow ahead with more lies.  And when the tides turns against you, as it always does eventually for people as dishonest as you, you'll run and claim that "oh tS has a new gov, all is well" just like Mensa did with Pfeiffer who became a liability for your side.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Placentica

[War Hawk]

.

Edited July 5 by War Hawk

[Sisyphus]

3) ODP does have that power. It's essentially a glorified NAP and would prevent us from taking direct action against you and your allies. Spin it how you want, but that's how it would have shook out.

I mean, I know historically UPN and the Coalition have shown no qualms about abusing treaties to restrict their opponent's ability to defend themselves or their allies, so I can understand why you would look upon any treaty with mistrust, but c'mon... That's the whole point of the ODP and it goes both ways, to limit two alliance's ability to harm one another.

 

We wanted to bridge the gap between our two camps and use that as a stepping stone to better relations with the entire camp.

 

You're failing to mention that an ODP also allows us the extra utility of, you know, defending one another and each other's respective camps.

 

Which is the whole point. To deter hostilities both between us and against either of us. I don't see how that makes us bad for offering an ODP.

 

We extended the olive branch, you rejected it and that left us soberly resolved with the knowledge that there, apparently, is no way this cycle is going to change. You'll keep us at arms length, just so you can strike us when it suits you despite any concessions we make to you.

 

Sorry to move the date up the calendar, but we refuse to stand around and wait for someone on your side to cook up a reason to hit us.

 

So here's your CB: https://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=831&display=war

 

Let's see how this all shakes out.

[Placentica]

Also, hello NPO!  I noticed quite a few of your guys immediately hopped into Vacation Mode.  Good for them.

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9436

 

We've noticed tS doing the same throught our war.  Including one that hit Vacation Mode right as you hit NPO because he/she had no troops.

 

Stop being a hypocrite.

[Eumirbago]

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9436

 

We've noticed tS doing the same throught our war.  Including one that hit Vacation Mode right as you hit NPO because he/she had no troops.

 

Stop being a hypocrite.

 

 

Hey Roger.  I remember when we gave you evidence and you rejected it as "this is not evidence".  Then we gave you more and you said that wasn't evidence either.  Then we said it's all over the forums and you said "where?".  Then when we showed you where it was, you deflected.  I remember in peace talks when you added terms on us for peace, but keep telling everyone you have offered "just white peace" because those "terms" weren't "terms".

 

Anyone can see that you've gone after me personally to manufacture a war and sure, when you have that much vitriol it's obvious what is going to come of it.  And you act like you handle each instance "internally", but I have no way to tell and they keep happening so I'm left to assume you really are just lying about that yet again.

 

The problem with talking to you and the reason you were booted is that when you are presented with facts, you call them opinions.  When presented with evidence you claim it's no such thing.  When presented with the cold-hard truth that you are manipulative and lie to your membership, to your allies, and to everyone else, you act like you are some beacon of truth.  You can't even tell the truth about your aggressive war on NPO/UPN.

 

Just like when you were caught in a lie on these very forums, about the 1v1 offer, you then deflect and plow ahead with more lies.  And when the tides turns against you, as it always does eventually for people as dishonest as you, you'll run and claim that "oh tS has a new gov, all is well" just like Mensa did with Pfeiffer who became a liability for your side.

 

LOLNOU

[naTia]

I need a dislike function, and stat

[Buorhann]

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9436

 

We've noticed tS doing the same throught our war. Including one that hit Vacation Mode right as you hit NPO because he/she had no troops.

 

Stop being a hypocrite.

Good for that person too!

 

(There, no longer a hypocrite. Happy?)

[Spooner]

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9436

 

We've noticed tS doing the same throught our war.  Including one that hit Vacation Mode right as you hit NPO because he/she had no troops.

 

Stop being a hypocrite.

 

Are you being intentionally dense? That player is an inactive who hasn't built a city for roughly two months, has been raided constantly for being inactive.

 

If you'd like to compare the total NPO nations in vacation mode vs the total tS nations in vacation mode -- I'd be game for a friendly wager.

[Auctor]

Key difference is it's not being used as "remove distractions from incessant posting" mode. Some of our dudes have other worldly concerns.

[Boony]

Yes you are the Aggressors, you just play the victims all the time. And I have never met a Saint, but your alliance has never been truthful or straightforward in any conflict I am aware of, and I have been in several of them.

*shrugs*

 

If you want to cry and make uninformed declarative statements, I can't help you. You're blinded and aren't seeking to understand, but rather look for anything that confirms your version of reality.

[Saru]

To be fair saru, it's clear not just tS wanted this war. BK, Mensa, guardian are all involved, no? I'm sure there were some war blue balls surrounding the Alpha war not expanding. who knows, maybe this war is syndicate giving its allies what they want? All I'm saying is it's not just syndicate that wants the war.

 

Also GPA is super happy right now.

 

That's fair -- and I would agree that the likes of Mensa got restless. I was moreso speaking in reference to tS trying to paint that it was NPO/UPN who wanted this, and between the two camps, it should be obvious who was itching for it.

[Saru]

You can't honestly believe that UPN signing NPO wouldn't be seen as a major threat to us. Whether or not UPN has good intentions is irrelevant. You are allied NPO who we believe do not have good intentions and if they decided to attack tS, you would defend them from our allies counters. You can call us liars all you want, but we sincerely did not want to war UPN again. Hell, we didn't want to war NPO either (we have mutual allies). However, this was the best course of action for our long term survival.

 

It's a mutual defense treaty... So yes, because you had decided to proactively go after NPO, I understand that we were a "threat" given that we told you that we will defend our ally in the case of an aggressive attack -- but ultimately your whole argument rests on you wanting to attack NPO. It's clear your mind has been made up for awhile now. I don't see why some have to keep up with the other bullshit mentioned in the earlier posts.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Saru

[Karrde]

That's fair -- and I would agree that the likes of Mensa got restless. I was moreso speaking in reference to tS trying to paint that it was NPO/UPN who wanted this, and between the two camps, it should be obvious who was itching for it.

I think that's a valid point, and I doubt anyone on our side would try to disagree. Wars are more fun, plain and simple!

[Buorhann]

I certainly wouldn't disagree

[Ivan the Red]

And when the tides turns against you, as it always does eventually for people as dishonest as you, you'll run and claim that "oh tS has a new gov, all is well" just like Mensa did with Pfeiffer who became a liability for your side.

You know, if we at t$ were to fire Partisan for being a liability, we would have done it a year ago when we were still allied to VE and Rose, and Impero commanded us to do it.

 

We didn't, and look what a funny year we have got. Facing ever growing odds and still defeating them.

 

Lets see if we survive this one, and next time your allies let you be part of the real fight.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Saru]

You signed VE, getting closer to the Paragon bloc, and came after us in Oktoberfest.

 

You mean right after it was leaked that tS had been proactively trying to get us rolled? We had ample opportunities to attack you, but didn't. Eventually when it came down to the war it was funny how ya'll went up in arms then -- and are now defending a position that is a whole lot weaker than ours then. I mean it is to be expected, just pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

 

You signed Rose, which hoped to lure us in a treaty trap in the previous war, something we tried to avoid, by not attacking VE. You literally took the first chance you had to attack us ( the SK communication mistake ), it could have been solved diplomatically, it wasn't. 

 

No. The first chance was when the whole community saw that you were actively pushing to get us rolled, and trying to get the plans started.

 

We legitimately tried to move on, with something SOLID, enough of words, promises, that we see broken everytime.

 

 

 

     You have to be trolling at this point?

 

 

we can talk about it further

 

 

Nobody cares any longer about your empty words.

[Saru]

I think that's a valid point, and I doubt anyone on our side would try to disagree. Wars are more fun, plain and simple!

 

And again, for the most part UPN members understand that, and from what I have seen in public and internal discussions there is a level of respect for all but one of our 'enemies' and no hard feelings towards them. Apart from the alliance with the continuous lies and spin coming from several directions. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Saru

[Kid Winchell]

I certainly wouldn't disagree

Can confirm.

[Prefonteen]

I demand proof that there was any intention of hitting TS, that anyone threatened TS, that anyone threatened to chain in on TS, or that anyone threatened to chain in because of treaties on TS.

 

If all others but Partisan could ignore this post I'd greatly appreciate it, as I'd like his WoT not someone elses. 

 

kthx.

 

edit: i was way more happy when this was just a "meh let's go to war because" rather then a "we were threatened so we pre-empted"

 

Happy to oblige:

You are misinterpreting my post. I was describing a historical phenomenom observed by the syndicate. This has occurred in the past wars, and we have no reason to expect it to be different this time.

 

If you go back to my explanation, and my explanation only (ignoring posts from other syndicate members), you will find that it specifically stated that t$ felt that its long term interest was threatened by aforementioned recurring pattern. It does not have to do with a *current* event of supposed 'plotting against us'. The problem with making such claims on my part would be that I have no way of knowing if there is or is not any unless information magically ends up in my hands. We have, in this case, based our decision to go to war on the past, and our recognition of similar events playing out.

 

 We pre-empted the likelyhood of traditional politics being followed and the opposing side to simply wait for a CB (be it deliberately or not) before chaining everyone and their mother in on us in an equally large but more advantageous war down the road.

 

So yes. You can continue to be happy.

[Saru]

You are misinterpreting my post. I was describing a historical phenomenom observed by the syndicate.

 

"observed" -- 

 

I guess you've been reading the Wiki pages on yourself.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Saru

[Valakias]

Hey Roger.  I remember when we gave you evidence and you rejected it as "this is not evidence".  Then we gave you more and you said that wasn't evidence either.  Then we said it's all over the forums and you said "where?".  Then when we showed you where it was, you deflected.  

 

This guy said "One of your members is being nasty". We asked "where?". He said....#politicsandwar. He literally said the entire channel was a proof of something, but he failed to give any kind of log or definitive proof.

 

Or are we supposed to dig through a year of logs just to find something? If you want to solve something, do give us the means to do so, otherwise, save yourself the trouble of speaking.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Valakias

[Prefonteen]

Hey Roger.  I remember when we gave you evidence and you rejected it as "this is not evidence".  Then we gave you more and you said that wasn't evidence either.  Then we said it's all over the forums and you said "where?".  Then when we showed you where it was, you deflected.  I remember in peace talks when you added terms on us for peace, but keep telling everyone you have offered "just white peace" because those "terms" weren't "terms".

 

Anyone can see that you've gone after me personally to manufacture a war and sure, when you have that much vitriol it's obvious what is going to come of it.  And you act like you handle each instance "internally", but I have no way to tell and they keep happening so I'm left to assume you really are just lying about that yet again.

 

The problem with talking to you and the reason you were booted is that when you are presented with facts, you call them opinions.  When presented with evidence you claim it's no such thing.  When presented with the cold-hard truth that you are manipulative and lie to your membership, to your allies, and to everyone else, you act like you are some beacon of truth.  You can't even tell the truth about your aggressive war on NPO/UPN.

 

Just like when you were caught in a lie on these very forums, about the 1v1 offer, you then deflect and plow ahead with more lies.  And when the tides turns against you, as it always does eventually for people as dishonest as you, you'll run and claim that "oh tS has a new gov, all is well" just like Mensa did with Pfeiffer who became a liability for your side.

 

You have not presented logs of anything. You have not elaborated on anything with anything other than your own word, and linking to an IRC channel. So no, I do not consider that 'evidence'. I consider it you making statements and not backing them up.

 

Regardless, I'm not too interested in having meaningful discussion with you personally after the manner in which you ended the one last night (which as you may recall was you making some OOC remarks, if I am to follow your own logic concerning OOC, and then banning me from the channel).

 

You followed that up with engaging me on these forums with an ad hominem in a discussion that did not concern you. Yet you accuse me of making matters personal? I do sincerely ask you to reflect on your behavior and knock it off.

[Prefontaine]

The problem with both sides is that you both seem to think you're entirely in the right. You're all part of the same compost heap. 

[Saru]

The problem with both sides is that you both seem to think you're entirely in the right. You're all part of the same compost heap. 

 

There is no 'entirely in the right' -- given the context of the game. The logic for the war is obvious: some were getting restless, some others more politically minded felt they were losing relative power and decided to strike out instead of waiting and hoping everything works out. Trying to deflect from that though is ridiculous, and deserves to be called out. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Saru