Great Mensa - Rose War Tracker

[Lu Xun]

I actually wonder who was planning this entire war. It resembles certain NPO-handled wars in terms of strategy and tactics.

 

With regards to Paracovenant getting "picked off", tell that to SK, which got facesat by Alpha and looks like a higher score variant of The Light Federation or The Charming Friends in terms of its military availability.

[LordRahl2]

Oh my gosh...

 

I can't even...

 

So because Mensa is actually good at what it does, it can't be the underdog when three of the largest alliances in all of Orbis and their allies decide to join together to beat it down? With all of their combined nations, money, and resources at their disposal? You admit yourself that Paracovenant's got more reserves left than Mensynd -- which entity is more "unlikely to defeat its opponent" again??

 

Put more broadly, if I understand things correctly, Syndisphere (t$ + allies) bloc is facing off against members of of the other two major blocs, Paragon and Covenant. Who would you say is the underdog, the one bloc getting beat up by two, or the two blocs joining up together to bulldoze one the one bloc?

 

Anyway, you're looking at this from a very statistical point of view, so I'll try to understand and respect your opinion, but I can't say I'll succeed. Thanks for attempting to explain your logic to me, in any case.  We'll have to agree to disagree. In the end, it's probably as dumb a term to try to apply to a side in an in-game war as "bully."

 

Inst does not actually understand what is going on.  Apparently he had some knowledge of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) affairs and believes this knowledge translates here.  For some reason or another, perhaps his previous (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) stuff?, people kinda listen to him.  His track record here is basically zero so I am doubly unsure why people would pay attention.

 

If he stuck to just gathering the numbers it might actually be worthwhile/helpful.

[Lu Xun]

@AstraKatG: So Nazi Germany was the underdog during WW2 because its advantages were in terms of military training instead of numbers and economic capacity? Was the United States the underdog during the First Gulf War because it was forward-deployed and facing, iirc, a numerically superior foe?

 

Underdog | Definition of Underdog by Merriam-Webster

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/underdog‎

Full Definition of underdog. 1 : a loser or predicted loser in a struggle or contest. 2 : a victim of injustice or persecution.

Mensa, recently, has begun to use reality distortion fields and similar methods of influence. I don't fault them for using it; lying is a part of life, to get what you want in life you need to be able to influence others, but if you're lied to, and it's an obvious lie, it's sort of your fault for believing it.

 

Simply based on definitions of words, Mensynd cannot be an underdog. I don't think anyone came into this war expecting that Mensynd would be torn apart quickly, especially once the Covenant decided not to immediately support Rose (understandable, but a mistake in retrospect) before the first set of wars expired.

[Rozalia]

So if understand Inst correctly... Mensynd is John Cena as they are the underdog in terms of having big odds against them, but as they overcome those sort of odds all the time they're not really the underdog. Sort of like how these days if John Cena was placed in a 4 on 1 handicap match nobody would call him the underdog as everyone knows John Cena is god tier in kayfabe power so the 4 guys are the guys 99% of folks watching would think would lose. 

 

[Lu Xun]

I was going to mention how incoherent Roz was, but then I realized, Mensynd's begun to drink its own kool-aid. Another sign of reversal.

[Ekaterina Kalmyk]

 

Inst does not actually understand what is going on.  Apparently he had some knowledge of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) affairs and believes this knowledge translates here.  For some reason or another, perhaps his previous (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) stuff?, people kinda listen to him.  His track record here is basically zero so I am doubly unsure why people would pay attention.

 

If he stuck to just gathering the numbers it might actually be worthwhile/helpful.

 

Thanks, that helps explain it somewhat. I'll try to keep it in mind.

 

@AstraKatG: So Nazi Germany was the underdog during WW2 because--

 

I'm sorry, I was done with you the moment you brought Nazi Germany into a discussion over a game. That's never a cool thing to do.

 

I will say, however, that some non-Mensa people I've spoken with could consider Mensa an underdog based on the first definition you posted and some Mensa people I've spoken with would consider Mensa an underdog based on the second definition -- so again, it's just totally subjective and probably as useless a term in this discussion as "bully."

[Buorhann]

@AstraG

 

Mensynd is not the underdog, because it has highly-experienced and well-trained members on average, so it can punch above its statistical weight. The idea of having the three largest alliances going after it is also hokum; all that means is that Mensynd is more distributed than Paracovenant in terms of power concentration. 5 alliances with a per-alliance strength of say, 30,000 is stronger than 2 alliances with an per-alliance strength of 60,000, because the addition comes out to 150,000 vs 120,000.

 

 

I just realized the Greeks ( In particular Sparta ) were not the underdogs against the invading Persian force from this little bit of logic.  Holy shit.

[Rozalia]

I was going to mention how incoherent Roz was, but then I realized, Mensynd's begun to drink its own kool-aid. Another sign of reversal.

 

I'd thought I was quite clear. Your point is even though statistically things are against them that they overcome those odds due to being better. John Cena has wrestled the entire roster with a single guy on his side and won, even if he is outnumbered he is always the guy to "bet on" as he is just so much better in kayfabe.

 

It has nothing to do with "kool-aid", I was simply posting what I thought you have been alluding to, in wrestling terms. Nothing more.

[Lu Xun]

@AstraKatG:

 

So, by the definition, you're done with anyone who played Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, Day of Defeat, or any other game set in the WW2 time-frame because discussions of that game, at a certain level, must involve discussions of Nazi Germany? Now, if I were comparing Mensa to Nazi Germany on a moral level, which I am not, Mensa, despite general obnoxiousness, has not attempted to commit genocide or kill real-life people, you would have a point.

 

But generally, I'm not inclined to discuss the matter with you either.

 

@Buorhann:

 

Actually, up until Thermopylae, the Greeks were considered underdogs because the Greeks had not shown the superiority of their military system to a comparable Persian force. Beyond that, I am not exactly sure what the time frame is, but Greek hoplite mercenaries were hired out in Asia Minor in various wars to considerable success. I think it's the success of these units that ultimately inspired Alexander to conduct his invasion of the Persian Empire.

 

If you are looking at Greeks as underdogs, they would definitely have been underdogs against the Romans, who had the force of momentum on their side, greater economic force, and a more flexible force. Typically, though, they lost.

 

I think we're just playing around, but if you actually want to understand what makes an underdog an underdog, you would be well-served by reading Strategy, which is ~600 pages, which also makes the astute point that strategy and stratagems are usually the province of the underdog.

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Strategy-A-History-Lawrence-Freedman/dp/1501227726

 

===

 

Also, if you're arguing that I have never been right; consider the concept of Thucydides trap, which is not (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) ((That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) is terrible) but rather International Relations Theory. Paragon and Covenant went at it 2 wars back; I argued that between two such major powers, they would either have to align (which they since have) or destroy each other. In the latter case, Covenant used Mensa-bloc and later Mensynd to destroy Covenant, only to later betray Mensa-bloc and be destroyed itself. That, at least, is what your official party line is.

[Buorhann]

"Up till Thermopylae" - So you're saying once a side shows competence, regardless of numbers and resources against them - they're no longer the underdogs?

Edited February 11, 2016 by Buorhann

[Sisyphus]

"Up till Thermopylae" - So you're saying once a side shows competence, regardless of numbers and resources against them - they're no longer the underdogs?

Congratulations! MensaHQ is now the upper dog!

[Kemal Ergenekon]

ITT: Inst still does not realize Rose started the war.

[Crust]

Congratulations! MensaHQ is now the upper dog!

What's updog?

[Longbowe]

ITT: Inst still does not realize Rose started the war.

 

It's good Inst doesn't realize this because it's not reality. The reality is: Mensa started the war by "raiding" Vanguard forty-something times in a day.

Edited February 11, 2016 by UNKNOWN

[Kemal Ergenekon]

It's good Inst doesn't realize this because it's not reality. The reality is: Mensa started the war by "raiding" Vanguard forty-something times in a day.

 

That's a nice story you are spinning, pal. We are talking about Rose who didn't protect Vanguard back in the Proxy War despite the existence of a treaty, right? The same Rose "intervening" weeks later on behalf of Vanguard to whom they have no links on paper? And because of a raid? Really cool story.

 

I am sure it was not because Mensa was fighting two wars at the same time for a long time, where Rose was looking for a convenient faux casus belli in order to not alienate all of Orbis with their aggressive move. No sir, it cannot be that.

[LordRahl2]

Unknown is trying really really hard.  Fortunately for him he has the sharp minds of folks like Inst helping his thin excuse for propaganda.

[Memph]

@AstraKatG: So Nazi Germany was the underdog during WW2 because its advantages were in terms of military training instead of numbers and economic capacity? Was the United States the underdog during the First Gulf War because it was forward-deployed and facing, iirc, a numerically superior foe?

 

 

Mensa, recently, has begun to use reality distortion fields and similar methods of influence. I don't fault them for using it; lying is a part of life, to get what you want in life you need to be able to influence others, but if you're lied to, and it's an obvious lie, it's sort of your fault for believing it.

 

Simply based on definitions of words, Mensynd cannot be an underdog. I don't think anyone came into this war expecting that Mensynd would be torn apart quickly, especially once the Covenant decided not to immediately support Rose (understandable, but a mistake in retrospect) before the first set of wars expired.

Alliances typically avoid wars they don't think they can win. I think a lot of alliances on Rose's side would have avoided this war if they thought they were going to lose.

[Buorhann]

UNKNOWN sure does want to make it clear that Rose is coming to defend Vanguard.  Why did you guys sever treaties with Rose in the first place?

[Sisyphus]

UNKNOWN sure does want to make it clear that Rose is coming to defend Vanguard. Why did you guys sever treaties with Rose in the first place?

It may lead one to believe Vanguard doesn't actually want Rose's protection.

 

Rose, stop being a creep.

[Spooner]

It may lead one to believe Vanguard doesn't actually want Rose's protection.

 

Rose, stop being a creep.

 

White knights, man.

 

Vanguard, go with your instincts and stick with a bad-boy alpha like MENSA.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Syrup

[PigInZen]

I like AstraKatG.  Something to be said about having women (or at least female characters played by guys) just destroying shitposters on the OWF.

[Valakias]

That's a nice story you are spinning, pal. We are talking about Rose who didn't protect Vanguard back in the Proxy War despite the existence of a treaty, right? The same Rose "intervening" weeks later on behalf of Vanguard to whom they have no links on paper? And because of a raid? Really cool story.

 

I am sure it was not because Mensa was fighting two wars at the same time for a long time, where Rose was looking for a convenient faux casus belli in order to not alienate all of Orbis with their aggressive move. No sir, it cannot be that.

 

They really must have thought it over too, like " I HAVE A PLAN GUYS ITS AMAZING".

[AlphaC16]

White knights, man.

 

Vanguard, go with your instincts and stick with a bad-boy alpha like MENSA.

No come back to us at VE. If you haven't noticed were doing far better than rose thus war.

[Buorhann]

No come back to us at VE. If you haven't noticed were doing far better than rose thus war.

 

Better than UPN too.

[LordRahl2]

No come back to us at VE. If you haven't noticed were doing far better than rose thus war.

Undeniably true. However, you should not willing group yourself with Rose when discussing performance issues. Althouh VE does willing group itself with Rose for some unknown reason.