Popular Post AkAk Posted November 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 10, 2019 This appears to be a classic case of winning the war and losing the peace. Continuing to fight without a peace option is a much more respectable play over negotiating in bad faith. Just admit you're trying to drive out your opposition from the game. This peace process is a farce. 1 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxalot Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: While I can understand why some might be drawing the CN parallel, I do urge y'all not to. Let's focus on PW events in PW forum discussions. There's plenty of material. I'm pretty sure I saw this already. The other thing that's been brought up in the thread is that you can do what you want to be a part of the community and still be part of the community. I understand the feeling that this would take away from the "fun" of the event, and that's probably true, but that's not an excuse to not be respectful. People are going to be pissed off if they don't respect other people. It's not worth pissing them off and not doing your best to have a good time at the event. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butts Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, Marxalot said: People are going to be pissed off if they don't respect other people. It's not worth pissing them off and not doing your best to have a good time at the event. That's a valid point and I respect that. I have some words of wisdom to bless this thread: From the Book of Butts, Revelation I: And from Butts, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the universe. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, from his own forehead, And hath made us kings and dentists unto Dear Leader; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: We haven't even spoken during negotiations, but yes we're to blame! I've been playing these games since 2007 and NPO is the only alliance that has ever done negotiations this way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Azaghul said: I've been playing these games since 2007 and NPO is the only alliance that has ever done negotiations this way. I do enjoy the over estimation of our prowess but again false in this case. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) On 11/9/2019 at 4:12 PM, SleepingNinja said: Roq had some personal things he has had to attend to, he's been inactive on our discord channels as well for the past few days. Sometimes life comes up, sorry it's at this time but eh, shit happens. 27 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: I do enjoy the over estimation of our prowess but again false in this case. "NPO isn't leading this", "Roq was away for RL reasons he wasn't stalling". Might want to get your talking points straight. If this wasn't a turd you wouldn't be trying to distance yourself from it. Edited November 10, 2019 by Azaghul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, Azaghul said: If this wasn't a turd you wouldn't be trying to distance yourself from it. Nice try. False again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Shadowthrone said: Nice try. False again. Yet again your denial only serves to prove my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, Azaghul said: Yet again your denial only serves to prove my point. I just don't have the patience to deal with your utterly untrue posts. But since you've asked for it; The NPO is but a member of this coalition and it runs through a consensus based decision making system. We are but one of many, and it was consensus based decision making that led to the present procedure being agreed on. Your claims that the NPO are the centre of this is false, and I'm not disassociating myself from the process, just pointing out that your posts are factually untrue, and mostly smell of bias from another world, rather than any material fact in this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Storm Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Shadowthrone said: I just don't have the patience to deal with your utterly untrue posts. But since you've asked for it; The NPO is but a member of this coalition and it runs through a consensus based decision making system. We are but one of many, and it was consensus based decision making that led to the present procedure being agreed on. Your claims that the NPO are the centre of this is false, and I'm not disassociating myself from the process, just pointing out that your posts are factually untrue, and mostly smell of bias from another world, rather than any material fact in this one Under what circumstance do you come to agree on this procedure except to double down on bad blood and commit to trolling as a the preferred method of negotiation? I consider myself to have an overactive imagination but even I can't bend my mind around developing such a procedure except to produce animosity, anger, and ruin the fun of a game out of sheer spite. If you care to explain to me how this is not how it seems, I'd genuinely love to hear it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: I just don't have the patience to deal with your utterly untrue posts. But since you've asked for it; The NPO is but a member of this coalition and it runs through a consensus based decision making system. We are but one of many, and it was consensus based decision making that led to the present procedure being agreed on. Your claims that the NPO are the centre of this is false, and I'm not disassociating myself from the process, just pointing out that your posts are factually untrue, and mostly smell of bias from another world, rather than any material fact in this one This is kind of the point of my other post earlier. Like it or not, NPO's opinion throws weight especially with its allies. If you truly aren't the driving force behind negotiations then you are at least one of a handful of major voices. You guys have power, might as well utilize it to your advantage. Don't let someone else determine your destiny. 1 hour ago, Pop said: Ok I laughed. Top tier meme. 1 hour ago, Hodor said: Under what circumstance do you come to agree on this procedure except to double down on bad blood and commit to trolling as a the preferred method of negotiation? I consider myself to have an overactive imagination but even I can't bend my mind around developing such a procedure except to produce animosity, anger, and ruin the fun of a game out of sheer spite. If you care to explain to me how this is not how it seems, I'd genuinely love to hear it. It has seemed like the people in NPOsphere and BKsphere have some sort of trauma related to Knightfall peace talks. I'm not sure what happened with those as I was inactive at the time but it seems like most of the decisions on how to handle peace talks have been based off a desire for more structure. A little Roberts' Rules of Order, anyone? Edited November 11, 2019 by Bartholomew Roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True King Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Pop said: You guys and your bloc did end up partially allying or non-aggression with Doombird Doomcave; surrender top tier control to them & letting the game die without one last epic battle at the very least. So you guys sort of failed at the end in lacking ambition to fight the only power outside Oculus which could have been interesting. So I was kind of disappointed when I decided to give CN another try & saw all the major power had already given up on the game before even attempting to bring them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Storm Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, Bartholomew Roberts said: t has seemed like the people in NPOsphere and BKsphere have some sort of trauma related to Knightfall peace talks. I'm not sure what happened with those as I was inactive at the time but it seems like most of the decisions on how to handle peace talks have been based off a desire for more structure. afaik TKR jacked us around for months. Which makes all the whining from TKR members upset that this peace process hasn't been instant rather ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Pop said: afaik TKR jacked us around for months. Which makes all the whining from TKR members upset that this peace process hasn't been instant rather ironic. You jacked TKR around for months, and you're doing the same thing here. That's not actually irony, that's just NPO being consistently pathetic. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Storm Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Sir Scarfalot said: You jacked TKR around for months, and you're doing the same thing here. That's not actually irony, that's just NPO being consistently pathetic. Damn that's quite the alternative fact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Hodor said: Under what circumstance do you come to agree on this procedure except to double down on bad blood and commit to trolling as a the preferred method of negotiation? I consider myself to have an overactive imagination but even I can't bend my mind around developing such a procedure except to produce animosity, anger, and ruin the fun of a game out of sheer spite. If you care to explain to me how this is not how it seems, I'd genuinely love to hear it. A procedure based on order, confidentiality and rewriting the anomaly that was Knightfall negotiations, is one there is consensus for. KF was a shit level attempt at negotiations and one will never return to that public mess. Negotiations need to be structured and ordered behind closed doors to go through the agreement/articles in peace. I have no idea how looking to complete the agreement in an orderly fashion is looking to ruin the game for you. But if you'd really like to see that, I can imagine few folks would be willing to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Pop said: afaik TKR jacked us around for months. Which makes all the whining from TKR members upset that this peace process hasn't been instant rather ironic. The irony of NPO complaining about TKR on this if it's the war that I'm thinking of is that it was BK pushing the contested terms within the coalition. 9 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: I just don't have the patience to deal with your utterly untrue posts. But since you've asked for it; The NPO is but a member of this coalition and it runs through a consensus based decision making system. We are but one of many, and it was consensus based decision making that led to the present procedure being agreed on. Your claims that the NPO are the centre of this is false, and I'm not disassociating myself from the process, just pointing out that your posts are factually untrue, and mostly smell of bias from another world, rather than any material fact in this one The "we're just another member of the coalition" argument doesn't pass muster. 1) There's a history of more than a decade of NPO pushing for this procedure, I know because I was a part of it multiple times. And I've never seen any other alliance in any world do it that way. 2) NPO, outside of a brand new alliance, is the largest alliance in the coalition, and holds a lot more sway than others. 3) NPO is the most vocal on these forums defending it. What's happened in other worlds wouldn't be relevant if you weren't doing the same things here as you did there. Unfortunately, while NPO has some good people and things going for it, the fundamental approach to play is completely flawed. It's not about actually having fun. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: PnW is an entirely different perspective and if anything without the NPO doing things here, you'd have a lot less opposition to your alliance and its hegemony in the past. >Chaos and KETOG alliances fought against each other more than NPO/BK have even been in a conflict in recent years >NPO/BK were aided by some alliances that would've normally been viewed against them Get over yourself. NPO did very little recently. The only thing you could claim was forming IQ 1.0 to counter EMC/Syndisphere, but once that coalition disintegrated - all NPO did was consolidate further into IQ 1.0, which caused further stagnation to the point that the only conflicts were from Roz Wei mostly. When "mini-spheres" broke out (KETOG, then later Chaos, etc) - NPO did attempt to do something new with Syndicate, but... we all see where that went. Basically right back to your ol' IQ buddies. Without NPO, this war would've been long over, and chances are - KETOG and Chaos would've fought each other again because BK and Friends are pretty damn boring with their frickyuge sphere building. Edited November 11, 2019 by Buorhann 2 3 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True King Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Problem I see with a peace which establishes an even stronger hegemony than IQ; having imported the most immoral alliance from CN interested in hegemonic control; this could be the last war for many years where there isn't just one overpowered mega bloc; who has everyone who doesn't want to be rolled join up; which then crushes those who remain unaffiliated in periodic curb stomps. Only way to really counter a hegemony when its that powerful would be many players just voting with their feet and joining a revolutionary alliance not afraid of perma-War if they lose, like when Vox formed the first time NPO was beaten in CN back when Perma-ZI was a regular practice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Azaghul said: The irony of NPO complaining about TKR on this if it's the war that I'm thinking of is that it was BK pushing the contested terms within the coalition. Yes because a bot term is worth extending a war over for months, only because TKR did not want to give IQ anything. You literally jacked around negotiations for something which wasn't even the worse off terms in the entire agreement. Also that was literally the only IQ term, so you p much held out in the hope of not giving IQ what it wanted, and for other discernible purpose of value. 3 hours ago, Azaghul said: 1) There's a history of more than a decade of NPO pushing for this procedure, I know because I was a part of it multiple times. And I've never seen any other alliance in any world do it that way. There's a history of it being done here too. So this isn't a first. KF was the anomaly to that. 3 hours ago, Azaghul said: 2) NPO, outside of a brand new alliance, is the largest alliance in the coalition, and holds a lot more sway than others. NPO is one among equals in the coalition. Any perceptions of power is yours, and fundamentally wrong. 3 hours ago, Azaghul said: 3) NPO is the most vocal on these forums defending it. Because Under, Sphinx and whomever has posted defending it here is selectively ignored by you, in your attempt to paint this as a NPO process. 3 hours ago, Azaghul said: Unfortunately, while NPO has some good people and things going for it, the fundamental approach to play is completely flawed. It's not about actually having fun. TKR has some good people and things going for it, the fundamental approach to play is completely flawed. It's not about actually having fun. Sorry you don't have a monopoly on deciding world standards. As long as you believe TKR is entitled to set that, your fundamental approach to be the world's moral police will have us oppose it 3 hours ago, Buorhann said: >Chaos and KETOG alliances fought against each other more than NPO/BK have even been in a conflict in recent years >NPO/BK were aided by some alliances that would've normally been viewed against them So only if NPO fights BK the game is fun is it? Come on, that's a load of crock and you should get over yourself hippo. 3 hours ago, Buorhann said: NPO did very little recently. The only thing you could claim was forming IQ 1.0 to counter EMC/Syndisphere, but once that coalition disintegrated - all NPO did was consolidate further into IQ 1.0, which caused further stagnation to the point that the only conflicts were from Roz Wei mostly. We've fought the EMC/Syndisphere hegemony, preempted your set of alliances, ran a war against TKR and then joined into this global when we didn't have to. We've done a bunch of things, including attempting to set up N$O. What have you done recently FA wise hippo? Or are you the only one allowed to never change allies and claim bullying folks and easy mode rollings is doing things to help the game? 3 hours ago, Buorhann said: When "mini-spheres" broke out (KETOG, then later Chaos, etc) - NPO did attempt to do something new with Syndicate, but... we all see where that went. Basically right back to your ol' IQ buddies. So what? We at least tried something and it may have failed, but we did it nonetheless. When's the last time you changed your FA path? 3 hours ago, Buorhann said: Without NPO, this war would've been long over, and chances are - KETOG and Chaos would've fought each other again because BK and Friends are pretty damn boring with their frickyuge sphere building. I'd love to believe that, but chances are, you'd have attempted to roll the NPO, and I'm certain nothing else since all you attempt to do are easy wars and bully people while claiming to be the paragon of change, when your allies haven't changed close to two years 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prefonteen Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Pop said: afaik TKR jacked us around for months. Which makes all the whining from TKR members upset that this peace process hasn't been instant rather ironic. 3 hours ago, Shadowthrone said: A procedure based on order, confidentiality and rewriting the anomaly that was Knightfall negotiations, is one there is consensus for. KF was a shit level attempt at negotiations and one will never return to that public mess. Negotiations need to be structured and ordered behind closed doors to go through the agreement/articles in peace. I have no idea how looking to complete the agreement in an orderly fashion is looking to ruin the game for you. But if you'd really like to see that, I can imagine few folks would be willing to do that I'm actually curious what exactly the KF trauma is here. As I recall, it's self-inflicted. At the very least it was when we initially worked on terms to be presented. I recall certain parties pushing for terms upon terms, including trade bots etc. Was it the process or the actual terms which drew KF out? ...On that note- how did TKR jack you around in KF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: I'm actually curious what exactly the KF trauma is here. As I recall, it's self-inflicted. At the very least it was when we initially worked on terms to be presented. I recall certain parties pushing for terms upon terms, including trade bots etc. You mean like everyone presenting terms for their associated blocs? Nice subtle call out there Parti boi, but you know that characterising every sphere putting forth their terms for discussion coalition wide before the final terms were agreed, is SOP. 12 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: Was it the process or the actual terms which drew KF out? The process. The public red-lines followed by the passion plays on the forums, not worth it. 13 minutes ago, Prefonteen said: ...On that note- how did TKR jack you around in KF? By arguing against solely the IQ terms and attempt to blame IQ for the delay in peace and then turn around and blame for every other term on the KF peace list, when we literally had only one term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhantomThiefB Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 14 hours ago, Azaghul said: "NPO isn't leading this", "Roq was away for RL reasons he wasn't stalling". Might want to get your talking points straight. If this wasn't a turd you wouldn't be trying to distance yourself from it. TKR member accuses Roq of stalling. I (an NPO member) affirm that this is not the case as he hasn't been around the last few days. You (TKR member) come in all "GeT yOuR tAlKiNg PoInTs StRaIgHt" me : ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namukara Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 What we're seing is the alliance that meant death for CN giving this game a taste of that lovely medicine. IMHO the stalling with regards peace, the fact they are completely refusing to negotiate with T$ (regularly scheduled reminder to coalition b that your treaties with NPO mean nothing to them), and their total failure to explain their actions is proof positive of the lack of respect that they show for their fellow players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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