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Declaration of War

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19 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

We acted as if N$O was telling the truth about them not engaging in these plans, but the plans do show that TcW was not only making plans to hit Chaos but also KETOG even if indirectly.  The plans were pretty explicit about working together with N$O to hit Chaos and KETOG, so even if the hits were independent and N$O wasn't involved (which has not aged well), the Chaos and KETOG were still the targets by these plans being drafted by TcW. It doesn't really matter who was supposed to hit who because by that logic TKR would only hit BK/GOG and TcW by CoS according to the plans, but that's not how these things work.  We were both targets and had the potential to be destabilized by these plans irregardless of who planned to hit who because as we can see right now war is never that clean.  

Also, leave Rose the hell alone.  Mini spheres are allowed to build coalitions to defeat greater enemies (i.e. hegemonies) that are destabilizing the game.  It's almost like this game has politics for a reason or something.  And they have great civ tournaments.  

You acted prior to N$O telling you anything about them not engaging in these plans. Read my response to Zoot and save me from having to repeat.

Also, leave NPO the hell alone. Mini spheres are allowed to build coalitions to defeat smaller enemies that have done them wrong and still remain united behind the disguise of mini-spheres (i.e. BK/TCW + tS/NPO vs the world) that are destabilizing the game. It's almost like this game has politics for a reason or something. And they have great political grudges to act upon.

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@TheNG Quick, do something stupid so Roq doesn't win worst alliance leader of the year

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All the plotting gave some of these blocs reason to war beyond just boredom wars. So NPO & IQ conspiracies can get forum active, so interesting drama thanks to these rivalries at least.

 

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1 minute ago, Arathorn said:

You are not making any sense. You saying that KETOG going to war on a leaked log that identified KETOG as a target for tS/NPO, not BK. KETOG hit BK instead of the ones who posed an actual direct legitimate threat to KETOG in accordance with the log you use as justification for the war. The fact that TCW/BK were the ones planning to have them hit doesn't make TCW/BK more of a threat than the sphere TCW/BK employed to hit them. KETOG ignored the direct threat and hit the planners instead. When NPO joined in, there was massive crying. If you believed the log, there should have been zero surprise of NPO's entrance, and thus KETOG would have been more wise to go after tS/NPO instead of BK. However, you keep claiming you took NPO's word for it as the reason for not doing so, when that same NPO's word was non-existent until AFTER they joined and received the massive crying. 

You saying "We are going to believe and use this leaked log to justify uniting Chaos, KETOG, and Rose, negating our own mini-sphere agenda, and attack BK/TCW despite believing NPO's future word that they have no involvement" is and always will be you breaking your own mini-sphere smoke screen and still believing and assuming IQ remains a thing, when in fact EMC continues to remain a thing.

As for Rose's involvement, I have nothing to add to the comment already made there either.

Ok I make it easy for you

If I go to Zoot and I say "I really hate Element and Inst, I want to kill them, this is my plan to kill them, I kill Element while you kill Inst, it's ok for you?"

Zoot says nothing and walks away

The nex day Kiloist goes to Element and Inst and tells them what I did to Zoot

Inst should be mad at me or Zoot?

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1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Had KETOG remained out, they'd have shown the community that they weren't connected with Chaos and Friends.

Instead they opted to show that they are indeed still tied up with Chaos and Friends and the whole minispheres idea was an illusion to allow them to reassert their Hegemony.

 

Am I doing it right? 

Why was both KETOG and N$O implicated in that leaked log?

 

Sidenote: Did you forget that we literally dealt billions of damage in our war just prior to this?  TKR had to build back up during this conflict.  Sad that you couldn’t keep em pinned.

Edited by Buorhann

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15 minutes ago, Skittles said:

Stop trying to twist things into what they are not. NPO was not the one planning to hit KETOG, they were merely invited to the coalition *by BK* to take care of them. BK was the one trying to build a coalition against both Chaos and KETOG, so they were the ones to feel the brunt of the blowback. The log says that they were trying to get NPO onboard, but not that NPO was already onboard, so there was no reason to include them. For Rose, I believe Mhearl somewhere stated that Rose joined because they saw BK as a threat to the game's health, and a potential threat to them later down the line. Get your head out of your ass, please.

Stop trying to twist things into what they are not. Rose is hiding behind the false social justice warrior hero face when in reality they're still together united with Chaos and KETOG. Get your head out of your ass first, please.

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6 minutes ago, Arathorn said:

You are not making any sense. You saying that KETOG going to war on a leaked log that identified KETOG as a target for tS/NPO, not BK. KETOG hit BK instead of the ones who posed an actual direct legitimate threat to KETOG in accordance with the log you use as justification for the war. The fact that TCW/BK were the ones planning to have them hit doesn't make TCW/BK more of a threat than the sphere TCW/BK employed to hit them. KETOG ignored the direct threat and hit the planners instead. When NPO joined in, there was massive crying. If you believed the log, there should have been zero surprise of NPO's entrance, and thus KETOG would have been more wise to go after tS/NPO instead of BK. However, you keep claiming you took NPO's word for it as the reason for not doing so, when that same NPO's word was non-existent until AFTER they joined and received the massive crying. 

Alright, let me try one last time to put this in very simple terms, which will hopefully make it easier to understand.

Consider the following situation:

I say that I am going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. Who is the threat to alliance A? Me.

Now let us expand that to the following:

I say that I am going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A and B. As part of that coalition I would like to have alliance C join. I don't have any confirmation on whether alliance C is on board or not, but I am planning on asking them. Who is the threat to alliance A and B in this scenario? Still me.

Now let us transfer it to the current situation:

You say, in the leaks, that you were going to gather a coalition to attack KETOG and CHAOS. As part of that coalition you would have liked to have NPO join. You didn't have any confirmation on whether NPO was on board or not, but you were planning on asking them. Who is the threat to KETOG and Chaos in this scenario? YOU.

You can keep trying to twist it any way you want, the facts remain.

Quote

You saying "We are going to believe and use this leaked log to justify uniting Chaos, KETOG, and Rose, negating our own mini-sphere agenda, and attack BK/TCW despite believing NPO's future word that they have no involvement" is and always will be you breaking your own mini-sphere smoke screen and still believing and assuming IQ remains a thing, when in fact EMC continues to remain a thing.

As for Rose's involvement, I have nothing to add to the comment already made there either.

That is just nonsense. If you are going to try and argue at least do it in a coherent way that makes at least some sense.

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2 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Ok I make it easy for you

If I go to Zoot and I say "I really hate Element and Inst, I want to kill them, this is my plan to kill them, I kill Element while you kill Inst, it's ok for you?"

Zoot says nothing and walks away

The nex day Kiloist goes to Element and Inst and tells them what I did to Zoot

Inst should be mad at me or Zoot?

Both. Because from Inst's perspective, Zoot never walked away and is still waiting in the shadows for the opportunity to strike him. It would be more wise of Inst to expect Zoot's attack and prepare for it either by 1) staying away from both Element and Micchan,  or 2) attacking both Zoot to ensure Zoot can't act on that plan, and then later dealing with Micchan for planning it out, remembering that Micchan wasn't going to go after Inst but instead Zoot would be if the original plan were true and therefore Micchan posed no threat to Inst. Zoot did, at least from the shoes of Inst.

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13 minutes ago, Kiloist II said:

>NPO hits TKR as a “pre-empt” cause TKR logs from months ago before Chaos

And don't forget that in those logs TCW was also in talks about hitting IQ, but I don't see NPO nations on TCW

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@ZootI've found that sometimes with people who struggle to understand seemingly simple concepts like @Arathorn, using analogies can be helpful.

 

Basically, this is like if you hire a hitman to kill someone, and then when the hitman declines and word reaches the target, you're shocked that the target decides they want to have you dead.

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7 minutes ago, Arathorn said:

Also, leave NPO the hell alone. Mini spheres are allowed to build coalitions to defeat smaller enemies that have done them wrong and still remain united behind the disguise of mini-spheres (i.e. BK/TCW + tS/NPO vs the world) that are destabilizing the game. It's almost like this game has politics for a reason or something. And they have great political grudges to act upon.

Yeah I thought you'd say this, but this doesn't make any sense because neither N$O nor BK could be classified as mini sphere as they were each the size of at least of two of the other blocs.  And even then if NPO or N$O entered right away then yeah IQ would be gone and we would be annoyed that their preaching for years was all really bullshit, but they would've entered fine.  But NPO didn't do this.  They spun themselves an even greater fiction of not being involved in these plans, then that they were going to only attack Grumpy/Guardian against upper tier consolidation to only enter later when their butt buddy BK got hurt a little too much for their liking. I mean you know that Rose and N$O is not a fair comparison, but if that's what lets you sleep at night, enjoy.  And at least Rose had the balls to be upfront about it instead of hiding behind lies and Roquentin's gibberish of a DoW.

P.S. Also, when you say BK vs the world that's characterizing this situation quite incorrectly because KERCHOG is now outnumbered something like 2:1 in city count.  Irregardless of tiering, it is quite clear that we obviously do not represent the majority of Orbis just a competent minority who are temporarily allied against a greater threat.

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7 minutes ago, Zoot said:

Alright, let me try one last time to put this in very simple terms, which will hopefully make it easier to understand.

Consider the following situation:

I say that I am going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. Who is the threat to alliance A? Me.

Now let us expand that to the following:

I say that I am going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A and B. As part of that coalition I would like to have alliance C join. I don't have any confirmation on whether alliance C is on board or not, but I am planning on asking them. Who is the threat to alliance A and B in this scenario? Still me.

Now let us transfer it to the current situation:

You say, in the leaks, that you were going to gather a coalition to attack KETOG and CHAOS. As part of that coalition you would have liked to have NPO join. You didn't have any confirmation on whether NPO was on board or not, but you were planning on asking them. Who is the threat to KETOG and Chaos in this scenario? YOU.

You can keep trying to twist it any way you want, the facts remain.

That is just nonsense. If you are going to try and argue at least do it in a coherent way that makes at least some sense.

Alright, let me try one last time to put this in very simple terms, which will hopefully make it easier to understand.

Consider the following situation:

You say that you are going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. Who is the threat to alliance A? You.

Now let us expand that to the following:

You say that you are going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. As part of that plan, you say you're in talks with alliance C to attack alliance B to keep them from being a threat to you. You don't have any confirmation on whether alliance C is on board or not. Who is the threat to alliance A in this scenario? Still you. Who is the threat to alliance B in this scenario? Not you, but alliance C possibly if the plan is true and if alliance C is on board.

Now let us transfer it to the current situation:

We say, in the leaks, that we were going to attack Chaos. As part of that coalition/plan, we are in talks with NPO to hit KETOG to keep them from being a threat to us. We didn't have any confirmation on whether NPO was on board or not, but the log claims we had already talked with them or were in talks with them - beyond the planning to ask them. Who is the threat to Chaos in this scenario? US.  Who is the threat to KETOG in this scenario? NOT US. POSSIBLY NPO IF THEY ARE/WERE ON BOARD. 

You can keep trying to twist it any way you want, the facts remain EMC always remained even under the disguise of a mini-sphere smokescreen.

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4 minutes ago, Arathorn said:

Now let us transfer it to the current situation:

We say, in the leaks, that we were going to attack Chaos. As part of that coalition/plan, we are in talks with NPO to hit KETOG to keep them from being a threat to us. We didn't have any confirmation on whether NPO was on board or not, but the log claims we had already talked with them or were in talks with them - beyond the planning to ask them. Who is the threat to Chaos in this scenario? US.  Who is the threat to KETOG in this scenario? NOT US. POSSIBLY NPO IF THEY ARE/WERE ON BOARD. 

You can keep trying to twist it any way you want, the facts remain EMC always remained even under the disguise of a mini-sphere smokescreen.

So what you're saying is... You were putting together a plan to have KETOG hit? That would be plotting a hit on a foreign alliance(s) thus would be a valid CB when it gets leaked. 

 

Send your next in line to attempt this argument. 

Edited by Kiloist II
rip my english
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5 minutes ago, Cooper_ said:

Yeah I thought you'd say this, but this doesn't make any sense because neither N$O nor BK could be classified as mini sphere as they were each the size of at least of two of the other blocs.  And even then if NPO or N$O entered right away then yeah IQ would be gone and we would be annoyed that their preaching for years was all really bullshit, but they would've entered fine.  But NPO didn't do this.  They spun themselves an even greater fiction of not being involved in these plans, then that they were going to only attack Grumpy/Guardian against upper tier consolidation to only enter later when their butt buddy BK got hurt a little too much for their liking. I mean you know that Rose and N$O is not a fair comparison, but if that's what lets you sleep at night, enjoy.  And at least Rose had the balls to be upfront about it instead of hiding behind lies and Roquentin's gibberish of a DoW.

P.S. Also, when you say BK vs the world that's characterizing this situation quite incorrectly because KERCHOG is now outnumbered something like 2:1 in city count.  Irregardless of tiering, it is quite clear that we obviously do not represent the majority of Orbis just a competent minority who are temporarily allied against a greater threat.

Yeah I thought you'd say this, but this doesn't make any sense because neither Chaos nor KETOG could be classified as mini spheres as they were each outnumbering both N$O and BK spheres in the whale tiers and city counts, thus having a very large advantage in plane counts on an individual basis.

P.S. Also, when you say KERCHOG is outnumbered something like 2:1 in city count, that's characterizing this situation quite incorrectly because on an individual nation to nation basis KERCHOG outnumbers BK something like 4:1 in city count, individually holding the advantage when it comes to military unit sizes. The only way we'd have a fighting chance is if we're on the blitzing end to make our 2:1 ratio even work.

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4 minutes ago, Arathorn said:

We say, in the leaks, that we were going to attack Chaos. As part of that coalition/plan, we are in talks with NPO to hit KETOG to keep them from being a threat to us.

Why would you be in talks to NPO in the first place?  You implicated you wanted them to hit KETOG and keep us busy.  There wasn't any "We'll ask NPO to guard us from KETOG if they come in."  It was a "We'll talk to NPO to hit KETOG."

Huge difference in wording there that implies two different things.

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1 minute ago, Kiloist II said:

So what you're saying is... You were putting together a plan to have KETOG hit? That would be plotting a hit on a foreign alliance(s) thus would be a valid CB when it gets leaked. 

 

Send your next in line to attempt this argument. 

I'm not saying anything. I don't know what plan was being put together if any, I am just going by the things presented here in this thread and playing devil's advocate. 

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Just now, Arathorn said:

I'm not saying anything. I don't know what plan was being put together if any, I am just going by the things presented here in this thread and playing devil's advocate. 

Then you admit you see why you would be hit in that scenario above right?

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Just now, Kiloist II said:

Then you admit you see why you would be hit in that scenario above right?

Read my response to Zoot.

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Lmao, so if I write in our coalition channel that I am planning to ask NPO to roll BK, you'll hit them for it? Because by your logic, they're somehow the ones threatening you, not me for plotting to make it happen. Poor Tenages, if only he knew how easy it was...

Edited by Mikey
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10 minutes ago, Memph said:

@ZootI've found that sometimes with people who struggle to understand seemingly simple concepts like @Arathorn, using analogies can be helpful.

 

Basically, this is like if you hire a hitman to kill someone, and then when the hitman declines and word reaches the target, you're shocked that the target decides they want to have you dead.

True, but that only applies to people who genuinely don't understand, not people who are being intentionally dense in order troll which I truly hope is the case. I simply refuse to believe that anyone is as dense as Arathorn is pretending to be. That would just be too sad.

4 minutes ago, Arathorn said:

Alright, let me try one last time to put this in very simple terms, which will hopefully make it easier to understand.

Consider the following situation:

You say that you are going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. Who is the threat to alliance A? You.

Now let us expand that to the following:

You say that you are going to gather a coalition to attack alliance A. As part of that plan, you say you're in talks with alliance C to attack alliance B to keep them from being a threat to you. You don't have any confirmation on whether alliance C is on board or not. Who is the threat to alliance A in this scenario? Still you. Who is the threat to alliance B in this scenario? Not you, but alliance C possibly if the plan is true and if alliance C is on board.

Now let us transfer it to the current situation:

We say, in the leaks, that we were going to attack Chaos. As part of that coalition/plan, we are in talks with NPO to hit KETOG to keep them from being a threat to us. We didn't have any confirmation on whether NPO was on board or not, but the log claims we had already talked with them or were in talks with them - beyond the planning to ask them. Who is the threat to Chaos in this scenario? US.  Who is the threat to KETOG in this scenario? NOT US. POSSIBLY NPO IF THEY ARE/WERE ON BOARD. 

You can keep trying to twist it any way you want, the facts remain EMC always remained even under the disguise of a mini-sphere smokescreen.

No, in your scenario you are still plotting to have KETOG attacked and are thus a threat to them. Whether NPO would possibly also be a threat is irrelevant to whether you were a threat or not. You were plotting to have someone attacked, thus you were a threat to them.

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1 minute ago, Mikey said:

Lmao, so if I write in our coalition channel that I am planning to ask NPO to roll BK, will you hit them for it? Because that's what you're saying, and if so, boy I look forward to forcing alliances to fight in the future over unconfirmed speculation and plotting on my part!

Lmao, so if I write in our coalition channel that I am planning to ask TKR to roll SK, will you hit them for it? Because you're not understanding that I would most likely confront the rumored attacker about it, at which point if they denied their involvement, I'd sit back and watch things fold out. I'd have no reason to hit anyone if their involvement was false. 

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@Sketchy I don't understand why TKR is upset. The Crusade never sleeps. I am happy to have found more targets.

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1 minute ago, Arathorn said:

Lmao, so if I write in our coalition channel that I am planning to ask TKR to roll SK, will you hit them for it? Because you're not understanding that I would most likely confront the rumored attacker about it, at which point if they denied their involvement, I'd sit back and watch things fold out. I'd have no reason to hit anyone if their involvement was false. 

I would ask them, as we asked n$o, and then after confirming they aren't in on it, go and kill the guy plotting to kill my alliance. 

But I guess it's ok to order the commission of crimes as long as you aren't the one doing the dirty work? 

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