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The support behind Kastor, whom is obviously guilty in the matter and is a government official (in other words, a representative) of Roz Wei, is what gets you guys in this trouble.

 

 

Admirable though, but really it all comes down to TKR and their response to the matter, and how you guys want to settle it.

Edited by Buorhann
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Now I do recall Cornerstone telling me they told their allies we "broke our word" and people were out for blood, but I quickly dispelled that by showing the screenshots which showed that the person we hit was not due to chasing but that person trying some deception with us. Perhaps that contributes as maybe Cornerstone weren't quite as quick in saying we did nothing wrong on that front but it doesn't really matter. It's flimsy stuff.

 

Once we got hold of the screenshots from RW, it was determined that what we initially thought was a treasure-raid was actually more complicated and ended up being the result of a broken agreement made by that ex-SD member and RW before the merger.

Just to clarify- RW didn't break their word and that's why we released that member to their judgment.  

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Arghh raided me in the past, i'm just happy i get to have a hand in destroying all of their infrastructure

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The support behind Kastor, whom is obviously guilty in the matter and is a government official (in other words, a representative) of Roz Wei, is what gets you guys in this trouble.

 

Admirable though, but really it all comes down to TKR and their response to the matter, and how you guys want to settle it.

 

Had they come to me about it when it happened I'd have made clear how things work and likely we would have worked something out. The officers are those who have input in what should be done and deal with a couple of things, but they represent the alliance as much as any other member outside obviously myself. If they want to guarantee or agree to provide aid to an alliance they are free to, but unless they pass it through me and get agreement on it then no dice. Kastor several times tried to get R&R among others such a thing which I had to turn down so it didn't happen for numerous reasons for example.

 

Ultimately while I was like everybody else aware of the TKR build up this issue they have with us was unknown with me and pushing a war on it does not leave a good taste. I often have to calm things down as people will want a build up at the slightest thing but this time I called it wrong. My mistake and there is no use crying about it and we will move on. I am unsure why BoC are involved as we've never done anything to them but I suppose TKR didn't want to ride alone. This Resplendent however have shown a great deal of disrespect and deception as far as I'm concerned.

 

Once we got hold of the screenshots from RW, it was determined that what we initially thought was a treasure-raid was actually more complicated and ended up being the result of a broken agreement made by that ex-SD member and RW before the merger.

Just to clarify- RW didn't break their word and that's why we released that member to their judgment.

 

Thanks mate.

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Had they come to me about it when it happened I'd have made clear how things work and likely we would have worked something out. The officers are those who have input in what should be done and deal with a couple of things, but they represent the alliance as much as any other member outside obviously myself. If they want to guarantee or agree to provide aid to an alliance they are free to, but unless they pass it through me and get agreement on it then no dice. Kastor several times tried to get R&R among others such a thing which I had to turn down so it didn't happen for numerous reasons for example.

 

They shouldn't always have to come straight to you though, especially given that Kastor is listed as the Political leader of RW (Weird position?  What is the point of his position?).  Just from my personal outlook on RW, it seems Kastor is the 2nd-in-command for you guys.  I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me just from looking at your list there.

 

The problem is that the dominoes had fallen and raids began.  It was later found out that Kastor pushed or encouraged Arrgh ( Whether or not this is true, the screencap shows that Kastor was willingly taking the blame for it ) - so TKR reacted to what information they were given.

 

Just as much as you can claim that people should talk to you about situations, you should also hold a leash on Kastor.  You were fully aware ( or I'm hoping you were ) what Kastor was capable of when you first took him in.

 

Granted I have no dog in this skirmish unless the treaty web goes into overload and chains upon chains react - so I'm only speaking from my perspective if I was in TKR's position.

Edited by Buorhann
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Not sure who this is in response to but I'll address it.

 

Yes we hit SD, Mayor and me were asked if we were interested and we were. Ironically Kastor's first response is to ask why we would do this. I handled diplomacy in the matter, not because of some nefarious plot where I act as Arrgh's nice-guy side but simply because I was on while not all Arrgh admirals were so they couldn't quite give a consensus at the time.

Raided SD to death, ok thank you for not denying that. TKR affiliated alliance hit #1 check. Also, evidence of close RW/Arrgh cooperation and decision making with regards to raids.

 

The R&R thing was Kastor on his own and had nothing to do with the alliance's direction. Kastor is very devoted and he'll always be scouting people out and such, which is good of him, but as a merge is only possible if the other alliance recognises that I am sole leader they tend to not go for that. Him planning to use Arrgh's planned raid to convince R&R was something I heard after R&R mysteriously vanished but I admit I didn't think much of at the time. As they'd joined several alliances having searched some names I wasn't aware who to talk to and no-one from TKR came to me about it. In retrospect going to TKR at that time would have been good, but it doesn't change that TKR should have come to me themselves. Might come as a shock to some who know how abrasive I can be when talking about certain things but I am in fact a very reasonable guy. 

 

Unless I threaten you then Roz Wei hasn't threatened you. Kastor is in charge of politics which involves talking to people for good relations, embassies, and see if there any good candidates for guarantees. He doesn't decide who we hit be it war or raiding nor who we break bread with.

Kastor is a government member of RW and delegated authority to act in the realm of politics. His actions reflect on RW as a hole whether you are aware of his actions or not. That you chose to trust in him authority over your alliance is 100% on you and so are his actions which you are liable for.

 

Now I do recall Cornerstone telling me they told their allies we "broke our word" and people were out for blood, but I quickly dispelled that by showing the screenshots which showed that the person we hit was not due to chasing but that person trying some deception with us. Perhaps that contributes as maybe Cornerstone weren't quite as quick in saying we did nothing wrong on that front but it doesn't really matter. It's flimsy stuff.

Yeah, which is why I put in "you worked something out? ok." We didn't act as soon as the SD division stuff went down did we? We trusted the judgement of our allies and were content with the deal that they made. However, subsequent actions such as the RnR raids which is another TKR affiliate the Arrgh raid on us and our close allies proved too much for us to bear. The not so subtle threat by a member of RW government in a situation where we hit Arrgh was a threat we couldn't ignore. I'm sorry if we couldn't consult you directly about a plan to hit an alliance you had been working very closely with in the past couple of weeks. Something tells me we would have seen the typical Arrgh first strike.

 

TKR will not allow its allies and friends to be exploited and raided unmolested. We are fair but our patience is not exhaustible and we are not afraid to launch wars to advance or defend our interests. We would have fought anyone who poked the bear a few more times than they should have. I would suggest keeping a tighter leash on your government if this conclusion is not acceptable to you.

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Has anyone see the actual threat made by Kastor? I have. It's barely a threat. I want to put that out there. Stating a threat was made has certain implications of what was actually said. Telling someone along the lines of "Your score graph is sure gone up, hate to see it drop", is barely a threat. If it is a threat, it's a stupid one at that and should be treated as such. Meh.. I think I'm done talking about this. 

 

Also..

 

 

Is TKR really going to dare with their own safety to attack an actual fair opponent like TEst? No of course not, they are scared they lose their stuff! 

Lol this guy serious? Clearly TKR would need BK's help against us, not just BoC. Our weakness is dank memes. 

Edited by Prefontaine
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Well surprise surprise, you guys and your sphere came into power, and the first thing you do is hitting a paperless alliance way smaller than you, for stupid reasons, as a display of "power". What else could you except really? Is TKR really going to dare with their own safety to attack an actual fair opponent like TEst? No of course not, they are scared they lose their stuff!

Well, we just came into statistical supremacy but one could argue our "sphere" has been in power. I'm sorry but being paperless does not make you infallible to war nor does it excuse the wrongs we had the generosity of overlooked. Multiple times. We did not declare on TEst because TEst has not wronged us. This isn't a crusade against parperless it is blowing up the infra of some dudes who have shatted in our yard and refuse to stop.

 

So l let me get this straight.. you declared on us because BoC doesn't have big enough balls to 1v1 us? This isn't really an act of heroism or anything... more an act of cowardice really... at least I value that Rin made his promise to hit me a reality :D

 

This is just a shitty CB overall and really a display of dishonour. 

 

Also, we were involved with the disbandment of RnR? I don't remind that... As far as I am concerned RnR wanted to disband and was de facto disbanded before we hit them...

 

Well, in case you aren't a fan of reading. I listed the final straw being an Arrgh raid on TKR, Cornerstone, and BK. If that constitutes a "shitty CB" in conjunction to the other grievances you have I'd love to see the justification of all of RW's military adventures and see how they stand up in comparison. We, in TKR will not allow our sphere to be eroded by ANYONE be them paperless or not this is a logical conclusion to a set of provocations a bit too long before being acted upon if you want my personal opinion.

 

 

Had they come to me about it when it happened I'd have made clear how things work and likely we would have worked something out. The officers are those who have input in what should be done and deal with a couple of things, but they represent the alliance as much as any other member outside obviously myself. If they want to guarantee or agree to provide aid to an alliance they are free to, but unless they pass it through me and get agreement on it then no dice. Kastor several times tried to get R&R among others such a thing which I had to turn down so it didn't happen for numerous reasons for example.

Seems to me that delegating authority to this Kastor was a bad decision. May want to rethink it. We're not going to tip off a planned attack on an alliance because you pinky swear your government doesn't have actual power to establish policy.

 

Ultimately while I was like everybody else aware of the TKR build up this issue they have with us was unknown with me and pushing a war on it does not leave a good taste. I often have to calm things down as people will want a build up at the slightest thing but this time I called it wrong. My mistake and there is no use crying about it and we will move on. I am unsure why BoC are involved as we've never done anything to them but I suppose TKR didn't want to ride alone. This Resplendent however have shown a great deal of disrespect and deception as far as I'm concerned.

The raiding of alliances closely associated with TKR left a bad taste in our mouth too. Just as I am sure us acting on that is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of others. However, acting in the interest of ourselves and our allies as well as establishing an intolerance towards these kinds of actions is something we are more than willing to fight for. I am glad if you are truly willing to move on, its not personal, just good business.

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tbh let's cut the bullshit here.

 

You wanted to fight in a war, tkr has gotten cocky. You believe you're the best in the game at the moment in terms of war(not top 5 though). You wanted to fight someone, which is why instead of trying diplomacy, you just attacked. Which is why instead of talking to some of our mutual friends about talking to us about the raids, you just attacked.

 

Enjoy your war, beating us means nothing. We've come back from worse and we'll come back again. We're a family and we don't abandon each other. Arrgh are our brothers and we will always have their back.

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They shouldn't always have to come straight to you though, especially given that Kastor is listed as the Political leader of RW (Weird position?  What is the point of his position?).  Just from my personal outlook on RW, it seems Kastor is the 2nd-in-command for you guys.  I could be wrong, but that's how it looks to me just from looking at your list there.

 

The problem is that the dominoes had fallen and raids began.  It was later found out that Kastor pushed or encouraged Arrgh ( Whether or not this is true, the screencap shows that Kastor was willingly taking the blame for it ) - so TKR reacted to what information they were given.

 

Just as much as you can claim that people should talk to you about situations, you should also hold a leash on Kastor.  You were fully aware ( or I'm hoping you were ) what Kastor was capable of when you first took him in.

 

Granted I have no dog in this skirmish unless the treaty web goes into overload and chains upon chains react - so I'm only speaking from my perspective if I was in TKR's position.

 

Embassies, diplomats, talking to alliances who might be interested in guarantees, generally someone with a presence who people can talk to. I trust him and others to handle certain things without my input of course. There is no second in command though I value the words of anyone listed as an officer and use that to make decisions (not that I don't the rest obviously, but some things you have to share with a smaller group of people). I don't want it to be mischaracterised that they don't matter, because they do, but to try to use one member's actions as it being Roz Wei as an entity is off to me.

 

Now from what I know Kastor took the initiative sensing something was off to ask TKR for who they were hitting which they swore was not us (naturally), TKR's words on this I believe was they saw it as "shaking down" and took Kastors statement we would help Arrgh as threatening. This seems off to me to take it as a "threat" but perhaps Kastor's language was more colourful I don't know. All in all I don't blame him for taking that initiative and he tried to warn me on the matter, which unaware of the full scale of the matter I wrote off.

 

I'm not a big believer in silencing people and throwing them overboard. 

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Has anyone see the actual threat made by Kastor? I have. It's barely a threat.

 

 

I mean, it is Kastor.

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Has anyone see the actual threat made by Kastor? I have. It's barely a threat. I want to put that out there. Stating a threat was made has certain implications of what was actually said. Telling someone along the lines of "Your score graph is sure gone up, hate to see it drop", is barely a threat. If it is a threat, it's a stupid one at that and should be treated as such. Meh.. I think I'm done talking about this. 

 

Considering the ties between Arrgh and RW, it was enough.

 

And it ended up being true, as the same head of politics said there would have most likely been a RW counter after war was declared.

 

Unfortunately context matters, and being vaguely threatening from one gov to another in the context of an upcoming war between an alliance RW is tied to was more than enough.  You know as well as I do that not everything is black and white.

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On a more serious note: This is a bit saddening to me personally. Friends on both sides and all that jazz.

Good luck to all.

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Has anyone see the actual threat made by Kastor? I have. It's barely a threat. I want to put that out there. Stating a threat was made has certain implications of what was actually said. Telling someone along the lines of "Your score graph is sure gone up, hate to see it drop", is barely a threat. If it is a threat, it's a stupid one at that and should be treated as such. Meh.. I think I'm done talking about this. 

 

Also..

I mean you can continue to apologize for your paperless colleagues but downplaying the implications of the threat is going to be a bit harder. RW had demonstrated a blurring of the lines when it comes to Arrgh/RW decision making with Roz negotiating for Arrgh. Roz itself was party of the same grievances we had against Arrgh and we have the threat that you seem to think is trivial made on the eve of our war against Arrgh from a government member of an alliance closely affiliated with our target. Would that be enough to tip the balance in favor of rolling Roz along with Arrgh? Hell yeah it would and !@#$ yes we are going to take it into consideration. It just so happens that consideration pushed those who weren't in favor of rolling Roz over the edge. This is a classic case of talk shit get hit. Kastor should have shut his mouth and sparred his alliance a rolling. Saying anything to the contrary of this open and shut CB is just theater.

 

Lol this guy serious? Clearly TKR would need BK's help against us, not just BoC. Our weakness is dank memes.

Our underestimate our memes.

 

 

tbh let's cut the bullshit here.

 

You wanted to fight in a war, tkr has gotten cocky. You believe you're the best in the game at the moment in terms of war(not top 5 though). You wanted to fight someone, which is why instead of trying diplomacy, you just attacked. Which is why instead of talking to some of our mutual friends about talking to us about the raids, you just attacked.

 

Enjoy your war, beating us means nothing. We've come back from worse and we'll come back again. We're a family and we don't abandon each other. Arrgh are our brothers and we will always have their back.

 

Ya ok we were itching for war so much we didn't roll you for the SD fiasco. We were itching for war so much we didn't hit you right after the RnR fiasco. Yeah man, we are so cocky we roll the first person who looks at us the wrong way, you know except for the two cases I just said.

 

Lets cut the bullshit here. 

 

We in TKR are surprisingly self critical. It may be news to you but we have to illusion of being the best alliance in militarily, nation building, or in terms of politics within our own damn sphere let alone the game. But what we will not allow is some self righteous alliance to think they can walk over us or our friends without regard for the consequences which in this case is our ire and a boot to their face. A treaty with TKR is something that we will honor if kept in good faith that has and will always be true and we're reinforcing that by acting on our values.

 

Sure you'll be back, that's fine, the game is a healthier place with you and Arrgh doing your thing. However, right now we're at war so shut up and take your pounding. 

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On a more serious note: This is a bit saddening to me personally. Friends on both sides and all that jazz.

Good luck to all.

I concur. I like Roz Wei :(

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tbh let's cut the bullshit here.

 

You wanted to fight in a war, tkr has gotten cocky. You believe you're the best in the game at the moment in terms of war(not top 5 though). You wanted to fight someone, which is why instead of trying diplomacy, you just attacked. Which is why instead of talking to some of our mutual friends about talking to us about the raids, you just attacked.

 

Enjoy your war, beating us means nothing. We've come back from worse and we'll come back again. We're a family and we don't abandon each other. Arrgh are our brothers and we will always have their back.

I'll admit some of my members have gotten cocky (it's something I've been trying to hammer home to them that they aren't hot shit). We aren't top 5 in terms of military, we're likely somewhere in the top 10 range. 

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Raided SD to death, ok thank you for not denying that. TKR affiliated alliance hit #1 check. Also, evidence of close RW/Arrgh cooperation and decision making with regards to raids.

 

No that is incorrect. SD died because it was a mess that had been ripped apart internally, had a bad reputation, and just didn't have the people left to keep it together.

 

Affiliated? It was one of your ally's protectorate so there is a connection certainly but making a meal of it I think. 

 

Kastor is a government member of RW and delegated authority to act in the realm of politics. His actions reflect on RW as a hole whether you are aware of his actions or not. That you chose to trust in him authority over your alliance is 100% on you and so are his actions which you are liable for.

 

I can admit my errors as I am to blame in certain aspects. Having Kastor as an officer isn't one of them however.

 

Yeah, which is why I put in "you worked something out? ok." We didn't act as soon as the SD division stuff went down did we? We trusted the judgement of our allies and were content with the deal that they made. However, subsequent actions such as the RnR raids which is another TKR affiliate the Arrgh raid on us and our close allies proved too much for us to bear. The not so subtle threat by a member of RW government in a situation where we hit Arrgh was a threat we couldn't ignore. I'm sorry if we couldn't consult you directly about a plan to hit an alliance you had been working very closely with in the past couple of weeks. Something tells me we would have seen the typical Arrgh first strike.

TKR will not allow its allies and friends to be exploited and raided unmolested. We are fair but our patience is not exhaustible and we are not afraid to launch wars to advance or defend our interests. We would have fought anyone who poked the bear a few more times than they should have. I would suggest keeping a tighter leash on your government if this conclusion is not acceptable to you.

 

Hey TKR, if I hit Cornerstone would you protect them? Yes? Well done, you have just threatened me. I'll note it down as a reason when I first strike you.

 

You misunderstand, the time to consult me isn't before you launch your strikes no. The time is after the event of R&R is getting hit/disbanding you come to me and see how we can work past it. If it's then not sufficient then sure whatever, but you skipped that step. 

 

Considering the ties between Arrgh and RW, it was enough.

 

And it ended up being true, as the same head of politics said there would have most likely been a RW counter after war was declared.

 

Unfortunately context matters, and being vaguely threatening from one gov to another in the context of an upcoming war between an alliance RW is tied to was more than enough.  You know as well as I do that not everything is black and white.

 

Thats very murky logic that can be used to justify any first strike on anybody even if they don't have a treaty. Alright then, I think it's been made clear enough that TKR's reason here on Roz Wei is a first strike because apparently all the defense treaties weren't enough. 

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Guest Rin

We didn't raid SD to death, they disbanded the instant we hit them, same with R&R

So where would you draw the line to say that an alliance has disbanded? Aren't disbanded alliances still under protection?

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