Fox of BRMC Condemns the attacks by MensaHQ

[Spooner]

 

!@#$ yeah dude! I love driving newbies from the game just because they're new and naturally not conforming to my own standards too! Lets do it!

 

why would anybody so willingly try to drive newer players from P&W is beyond me

 

The player I attacked had played the game for 266 days. I've been playing the game for 36 days.

 

 

It could be argued-with a reasonable amount of truth- that Fox did/is going the political route in this way. Politics is all about getting as many powerful and influential people as possible rallying to your cause. I would say it's safe to assume that was her main aim by posting this here. 

 

If this is considered the "political route", then they aren't doing it terribly well.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to this -- MENSA HQ is a group of people who simply know each other from a previous game a few years ago. I'm just one of those players, me raiding an unprepared player who has been playing the game 9-10x longer than I have is not acting on behalf of MENSA, it's just a choice that I made.

 

Instead of just preparing better for next time, messaging me to stop, or messaging my alliance leader to stop, you took to the forums to make demands and complain about it. And with it, the little respect that I may have had for your alliance dwindled down to zero.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Syrup

[TellUrGrlThx]

Great discussion going on here. Anyway I'm always on IRC and willing to handle any issues you have with Mensa. I'm also in a lot of channels so you don't have to really search for me.

 

Thanks for noticing us!

[Dwemyrn]

Easy solution. A. Join Arrgh & become a pirate today! Or B. Join Arrgh and become a pirate today!

We should work out an allegiance with pirates.

Great discussion going on here. Anyway I'm always on IRC and willing to handle any issues you have with Mensa. I'm also in a lot of channels so you don't have to really search for me.

 

Thanks for noticing us!

I'll be on till 3:30 if you would like to discuss.

[Buorhann]

If it makes you feel better I thought it was silly.

 

Anyways, I think it's a matter of how you handled it vs how Fox handled it. You asked simply for the attacks to stop, Fox not only called out Mensa HQ as a whole but proceeded to list demands.

 

 

I like you.

[Buorhann]

Let's be real here.

 

Why would a smaller alliance think a larger alliance, who successfully raided one of their largest members, think any sort of demands will be heard?

 

Why would Mensa HQ leaders have to come to you to discuss things?  Mensa HQ doesn't really owe you anything.

 

You pretty much admitted nothing could be done if we didn't cater to anything you stated.

 

 

Reconsider how you're going about this.

 

For example: If you are really concerned about these attacks, don't list demands ( Yet ).  Go straight to the leadership, talk to Pfeiffer or whoever we have, and talk about it.  Chances are, this would've solved everything and you would've most likely got some sort of reparations back to maintain neutral or good relations.

 

If not, take screenshots of the conversation.  Use it as evidence that Mensa HQ could be a bully raiding alliance.  Rally up support to your cause, if anybody cares to follow it.

[Jaime Lannister]

I hope you aren't planning on making an annocement every time you are raided, such things are going to happen you know. 

[Magicboyd25]

Fox here is my recommendation. Dont listen to that other crap they are trolls (not all but meh ima call yall trolls for fun).

 

Get a nice protectorate with a larger established alliance. Going your own way doesn't always work. BK tried it early on and erm... it was fun for a day lol 

Those people will help you resolve things like this and also help your alliance gain the status you need to keep it safe. It is not too hard, heck I bet BK would even consider protecting you. We are moving up pretty fast and we would gladly poke Pfeiffer a few times if they did it again. Now I am not trying to tell you what to do, but for BRMC to grow properly and safely you need a strong protectorate. 

 

Hope that helps

[Red Huxley]

​I am shocked by the responses here, but I will respond one more time to this, maybe I can clear some things up(again). 

1. My Propositions  (a statement or assertion that expresses a judgment or opinion) are not demands, but a way to solve my disapproval with the Alliance. I do believe that it was a responsible request, and ironically easy and passive.

​2. Referring to my first post, there were THREE separate attacks stemming from more than ONE nation. Example: 3 MHQ Alliance members attacked 1 BRMC Alliance member, consecutively. Which would be very alarming to any Alliance Leader. It was an act of aggression or carelessness.

3. Politics & War is more about War, right? So don't mind me if I actually use some diplomacy (the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way) instead of Military action.  

4. I honestly didn't think this would hurt so many feelings, or create controversy, Lol. Also, If I am demanded to go to IRC to have talks, I can demand that you can come here to have talks. You may not care what I have to say, or think my size matters, but I can use my authorities to refuse any negotiations, communications, or trade. Which I plan to use my fullest authority to do, I hope to be constructive not destructive for my own Alliance.

Thats about it, other than using the forum for Alliance Affairs, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the thread being here.

-Fox

[Ayayay]

 diplomacy (the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way) 

That is literally the opposite of what you're doing.

 

btw, IRC is pretty much the go-to way of communicating with people in an effective manner, a conversation that takes a week of in-game PMs (or OWF threads) can be handled in a few minutes on it. If you don't like it/don't use it then you shouldn't be surprised when people refuse to deal with you or make fun of you for doing things that could be handled quickly with it.

 

Also, drop the bold, it's annoying.

Edited March 19, 2015 by underlordgc

[Fox Fire]

That is literally the opposite of what you're doing.

 

btw, IRC is pretty much the go-to way of communicating with people in an effective manner, a conversation that takes a week of in-game PMs (or OWF threads) can be handled in a few minutes on it. If you don't like it/don't use it then you shouldn't be surprised when people refuse to deal with you or make fun of you for doing things that could be handled quickly with it.

 

Also, drop the bold, it's annoying.

I wouldn't say that. Although yes, usually alliance matters are handled on IRC or private forum embassies.

 

 

​I am shocked by the responses here, but I will respond one more time to this, maybe I can clear some things up(again). 

 

1. My Propositions  (a statement or assertion that expresses a judgment or opinion) are not demands, but a way to solve my disapproval with the Alliance. I do believe that it was a responsible request, and ironically easy and passive.

 

​2. Referring to my first post, there were THREE separate attacks stemming from more than ONE nation. Example: 3 MHQ Alliance members attacked 1 BRMC Alliance member, consecutively. Which would be very alarming to any Alliance Leader. It was an act of aggression or carelessness.

 

3. Politics & War is more about War, right? So don't mind me if I actually use some diplomacy (the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way) instead of Military action.  

 

4. I honestly didn't think this would hurt so many feelings, or create controversy, Lol. Also, If I am demanded to go to IRC to have talks, I can demand that you can come here to have talks. You may not care what I have to say, or think my size matters, but I can use my authorities to refuse any negotiations, communications, or trade. Which I plan to use my fullest authority to do, I hope to be constructive not destructive for my own Alliance.

 

Thats about it, other than using the forum for Alliance Affairs, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the thread being here.

 

-Fox

I don't see anything wrong with it either, but to be fair, you really have no projection power to make demands. So you also cannot be surprised when said demands are rejected, regardless of how reasonable they may be. Mensa HQ is a pretty powerful alliance.

 

So I suppose it now comes down to which side can be more stubborn than the other?

[Ranoik]

​I am shocked by the responses here, but I will respond one more time to this, maybe I can clear some things up(again). 

 

1. My Propositions  (a statement or assertion that expresses a judgment or opinion) are not demands, but a way to solve my disapproval with the Alliance. I do believe that it was a responsible request, and ironically easy and passive.

 

​2. Referring to my first post, there were THREE separate attacks stemming from more than ONE nation. Example: 3 MHQ Alliance members attacked 1 BRMC Alliance member, consecutively. Which would be very alarming to any Alliance Leader. It was an act of aggression or carelessness.

 

3. Politics & War is more about War, right? So don't mind me if I actually use some diplomacy (the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way) instead of Military action.  

 

4. I honestly didn't think this would hurt so many feelings, or create controversy, Lol. Also, If I am demanded to go to IRC to have talks, I can demand that you can come here to have talks. You may not care what I have to say, or think my size matters, but I can use my authorities to refuse any negotiations, communications, or trade. Which I plan to use my fullest authority to do, I hope to be constructive not destructive for my own Alliance.

 

Thats about it, other than using the forum for Alliance Affairs, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the thread being here.

 

-Fox

 

There isn't anything wrong with the thread being here, and I don't think anyone is really arguing that this is incorrect in some technical or legal sense.  Seeing as I think you're kinda new, I think a lot of people are saying (perhaps not in the most friendliest of ways) that this is the wrong thing to do if you actually want reparations or assistance for your alliance.  Had you gone to Mensa directly, I'm sure they would have paid you or at least stopped the wars.  And if they didn't, you would have had a much stronger case to post a "Declaration of Hostilities" here, and gotten more support.  This is going to make Mensa want to do the exact opposite of helping you fix this problem.  You've called them out, and if they fold to you, what kind of message does that send all the bigger fish?  That Mensa is easy food, which is NOT what they are going to send.  At best, you've made an enemy and at worst, you're whole alliance is now in danger from an impending attack by Mensa for what they may call "libel". 

 

As to your points, they are demands.  You've placed an ultimatum on Mensa.  They have to do what you say, or else they face the consequences of which you said in your Note at the bottom of your opening post (which in this case means no trading, no talking with your alliance, as long as you're leader).  You're telling them do this or I won't be happy with you.  That's a demand.  A dialogue-opener would be like Fox-Fire up there saying "Yo boys, can you stop attacking me :)" and the pirates are like, "Arrgh!" and everyone is happy!

 

As far as being diplomatic, although this isn't as aggressive as an attack (which I feel that you are well within your rights to do, since defending the membership is the primary reason that alliances exist), you are not dealing with Mensa in a sensitive or effective way.  You are denouncing them in the public forum, which is not sensitive, and you are making them dislike you, which is not effective.  

 

This game is called Politics and War, because as Clausewitz said, "War is merely the continuation of policy by other means."  I understand this was a political move meant to force Mensa to stop attacking you, shame them into repaying you, and also showing the rest of Orbis that people shouldn't raid you, but you miscalculated it.  You made a bad political move in my opinion, mainly because raiding is generally accepted in the game, and it is seen as the responsibility of the individual alliances to protect their members by either having a good military, or having allies that protect you in case of attacks such as this.  Coming out here may be a way to defend you alliance by going on the political offensive, but unless Mensa was raiding a lot of other alliances or otherwise getting on their bad side, you're not going to be able to drum up enough support for us to do anything about it, even if you get attacked.  We might go "Bad Mensa, stop attacking minors", but I don't think any of us really want to go to war with Mensa either without just cause, cause they are a pretty good group of guys (not that you're alliance isn't either, I'm sure you guys are great too.)

 

Anyway, best of luck to you.

[Tim Armstrong]

Anyone here wanna guess how I handled my raids from Arrgh?

 

Like this. Where was all the "this is ridiculous" then?

 

Wow, do I get a prize for figuring out that the word ridiculous is your trigger, Foxfire?

 

Seriously though, all I meant was that it is obviously going to make the situation worse to make a public posting to the whole community literally condemning someone when you haven't at least attempted to contact the person one-on-one. My bad for the poor choice of the word ridiculous in my initial post.

[Ayayay]

Wow, do I get a prize for figuring out that the word ridiculous is your trigger, Foxfire?

ridiculous

[Jodo]

Redonkulous.

[Thor]

How about you learn how to speak English and get the hell off the forums until you learn how to do so and not be a pig.

[Fox Fire]

Wow, do I get a prize for figuring out that the word ridiculous is your trigger, Foxfire?

 

Seriously though, all I meant was that it is obviously going to make the situation worse to make a public posting to the whole community literally condemning someone when you haven't at least attempted to contact the person one-on-one. My bad for the poor choice of the word ridiculous in my initial post.

 

ridiculous

See this is why we need more emoticons.

[Jodo]

How about you learn how to speak English and get the hell off the forums until you learn how to do so and not be a pig.

Who hurt you...

[Fox Fire]

How about you learn how to speak English and get the hell off the forums until you learn how to do so and not be a pig.

Wow. Really? How about you go eat a nice Keanu Sausage and go to hell.

[Ayayay]

Theeere we go


 

Edited March 20, 2015 by underlordgc

[Alataq]

I'm interested... Someone popcorn?

 

[Jodo]

Theeere we go

 

Well done.

[naTia]

Well done.

Don't encourage him

[Jodo]

Don't encourage him

I have to. People get mad, they hire me to get revenge, I get paid.

 

I'm just keeping my business going man.

[Tali]

How about you learn how to speak English and get the hell off the forums until you learn how to do so and not be a pig.

This response gave me eye cancer.

I have to. People get mad, they hire me to get revenge, I get paid.

 

I'm just keeping my business going man.

Jodo can I hire you to bug me ;P

[Buorhann]

​I am shocked by the responses here, but I will respond one more time to this, maybe I can clear some things up(again). 

 

1. My Propositions  (a statement or assertion that expresses a judgment or opinion) are not demands, but a way to solve my disapproval with the Alliance. I do believe that it was a responsible request, and ironically easy and passive.

 

​2. Referring to my first post, there were THREE separate attacks stemming from more than ONE nation. Example: 3 MHQ Alliance members attacked 1 BRMC Alliance member, consecutively. Which would be very alarming to any Alliance Leader. It was an act of aggression or carelessness.

 

3. Politics & War is more about War, right? So don't mind me if I actually use some diplomacy (the art of dealing with people in a sensitive and effective way) instead of Military action.  

 

4. I honestly didn't think this would hurt so many feelings, or create controversy, Lol. Also, If I am demanded to go to IRC to have talks, I can demand that you can come here to have talks. You may not care what I have to say, or think my size matters, but I can use my authorities to refuse any negotiations, communications, or trade. Which I plan to use my fullest authority to do, I hope to be constructive not destructive for my own Alliance.

 

Thats about it, other than using the forum for Alliance Affairs, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the thread being here.

 

-Fox

 

 

1.  No, those are demands.

 

2.  It was 3 attacks on one member due to that person not having any sort of defense for being in a small alliance.  Easy pickings.  It was merely a big raid.  If there was more aggression, multiple nations in that alliance would be attacked.

 

3.  This is definitely not diplomacy, or if it is - it's crappy diplomacy.  Diplomacy would involve you contacting our leadership in Mensa HQ before calling out the alliance entirely.

 

4.  You can demand all you want.  All what you're doing is annoying people from working with you in the future.  Do you honestly think you have a bargaining chip here?

Edited March 20, 2015 by Buorhann