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Are we willing to forgive?

Read my post, then vote. It is a short post.  

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42 minutes ago, Klemens Hawicki said:

Here’s your answer: RZxC597.png

Clearly been shopped.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Thalmor said:

You guys fought on behalf of those 'main players' and thus you did indeed have 'something' to do with it as a result. You are not innocent. I have friends who were playing this time last year who have since disappeared because of what you and your comrades did at the behest of your leaders. 

Don't worry, though. Everyone playing now is better than your leaders. If you are rolled, it will not be intended for you guys to quit. If any of you do quit, then at least all is fair. 

That is not to say I advocate hitting you or anyone else. I am neutral to the idea. I do understand why someone people would use past events as a justification in the present, and I find that acceptable. 

The man fought against IQ, lol. He was apart of Soup Kitchen for the duration of the war. That's not to say I'm for or against the idea of rolling Acadia, but your statement of, "because of what you and your comrades did," is only partially correct.

Edited by Tartarus
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11 hours ago, Abbas Mehdi said:

We did offer white peace to everyone and by we, I mean the alliances that were the major sphere leaders. The minor alliances from tcw sphere and others not part of nap were still attacking camelot after February 20th. 

Who are you talking about here? If it is about Clover Kingdom, I might have to shove the DoW they made when they attacked us aggressively
If that is not enough, I WILL leak the logs of that peace talks that went b/w us, which clearly show Cam wasn't willing to peace without "reps" from an alliance that formed 4 days ago with a 0$ bank. They knew we wouldn't be able to pay and would have used that excuse to continue the war with us because they had an unlimited source of resources needed to sustain the war. If you are just going to see the wars declared on them, might as well try to see the wars declared by them.
There was no formal peace thread posted or demanded because they literally "lost" that small extortion attempt and we were requested for a NAP for 8 weeks, something that was cancelled by them in 3 weeks and broken with an aggressive declaration of war by them when they tried to start a proxy war with us using the BK strategy of "proxy wars" where you send your prot off to hit a random alliance you hate.

None of us might be saints here, but their leadership is closer to the devil than most of us will ever be.

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5 hours ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Imagine thinking the plotting for the next war is solely about grievances from the last war and not really just about personal grievances held  within upper gov oligarchial circle jerks?

It always amounts to the same, a few gov members having some personal grievance against the leaders of another alliance and eventually  the members of both alliances having to bear the cost of the aforementioned personal grievance without ever being kept in the loop because lol "opsec, can't show you because  if you saw how petty the issue is you would quit the war."

Far as I am concerned tCW shares as much blame as tS in enabling NPO last war. Sure, tCW fought alongside NPO a lot longer but it was the Syndicate's treaty shenanigans that granted NPO the FA leeway to start the whole thing off in the first place. Syndicate's only saving grace was their incompetence minus the snake who had to come back in and save their asses when NPO naturally betrayed them and forced tS onto the opposing side. That is also forgetting the snake's involvement in the NPO treaty in the first place.

Actually kind of rich even seeing tS criticising commonwealth considering you were tied to NPO for a good portion of the war and only joined our side when IQ attacked your allies in much the same circumstances as when tCW joined our side.

So yeah, if we are going to start analysing the actions of others during the last war to find reason for the next, best not look too hard since we might enjoy what the mirror reveals.

Hi Charles, how are you?

Thank for the shout out! Since you mentioned me you forced me to respond. Its the rule of Partisan.

There's a few gaps in your story.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

 

Hi Charles, how are you?

Thank for the shout out! Since you mentioned me you forced me to respond. Its the rule of Partisan.

There's a few gaps in your story.

 

Sincerely,

 

Partisan

 Yeah well, I am sure in a few months or so we can rely upon you to provide a wall of text filling these gaps in no doubt.

Your version of these "gaps" anyway.

Edited by Thorkell Hardrada
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

 Yeah well, I am sure in a few months or so we can rely upon you to provide a wall of text filling these gaps in no doubt.

Your version of these "gaps" anyway.

lol. Who shat in your cereal.

10 hours ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Imagine thinking the plotting for the next war is solely about grievances from the last war and not really just about personal grievances held  within upper gov oligarchial circle jerks?

It always amounts to the same, a few gov members having some personal grievance against the leaders of another alliance and eventually  the members of both alliances having to bear the cost of the aforementioned personal grievance without ever being kept in the loop because lol "opsec, can't show you because  if you saw how petty the issue is you would quit the war."

Far as I am concerned tCW shares as much blame as tS in enabling NPO last war. Sure, tCW fought alongside NPO a lot longer but it was the Syndicate's treaty shenanigans that granted NPO the FA leeway to start the whole thing off in the first place. Syndicate's only saving grace was their incompetence minus the snake who had to come back in and save their asses when NPO naturally betrayed them and forced tS onto the opposing side. That is also forgetting the snake's involvement in the NPO treaty in the first place.

Actually kind of rich even seeing tS criticising commonwealth considering you were tied to NPO for a good portion of the war and only joined our side when IQ attacked your allies in much the same circumstances as when tCW joined our side.

So yeah, if we are going to start analysing the actions of others during the last war to find reason for the next, best not look too hard since we might enjoy what the mirror reveals.

Fine. I'll bite charles.

Your entire piece boils down to a pretty much unfounded "TS MAN BAD". Not sure whether you're flinging shit to see what sticks, or whether you're just that badly informed. I'm used to you at least being slightly on point, so that's surprising.

I've bolded the parts where you make idiotic claims. I'll break them down for you chronologically.

1) You know absolutely squat about what t$ members do or do not know. There are regular discussions in t$' member channels in which gov expands on questions and even goes through our own mistakes or failings. This suggestion on your part is little more than a barb thrown in to reinforce a bias (all gov = bad) stemming from your own convictions about transparency and democracy.

2) While tS made some serious mistakes which contributed to enabling NPO, it's public record that t$ gov at the time absolutely abhorred NPO's moves from the entry against TKR and onward. t$' refusal to play ball and subsequent political interactions following that entry directly caused the breakdown between t$-NPO. Meaning: t$ shifted gears and stopped supporting NPO at the first sight of bullshit. t$' unwillingness to assist parties which it had rocky relations with prior to that does not equate to supporting NPO in its crusade to kill off communities. The rhetoric you spew is baseless.

3) A certain contingent of ex-TGH loves to bring this up as a party line. It does not hold. Even discounting the fact that my plans over a year before last war were not executed in the manner in which I had planned them (the executed variation was far more lenient to BK than mine was), there has been a large chain of events which culminated in this war. Throughout that chain, various actors made decisions which moved pieces into place to create the scenario we ended up with. One thing I'd point out for example is again, the dumb rhetoric of certain KT-TGH government figures throughout dial-up which closed doors, allowed IQ an internal rallying cry and gave them a party line to parrot for the justification of their push for disbanding opposition.

The PR and FA was absolutely botched.

4) Im not sure if "t$ criticizing commonwealth" is what set you off, but reading through this thread, we're looking at one member placing one flag in a meme including 7 other alliances. Beyond that, t$ has been mostly absent. Seems to me like you've got an axe to grind and decided to grab the excuse and drill in.

 

or am I wrong?

 

Edited by Prefonteen
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7 hours ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Clearly been shopped.

Finally, a post that uses at least 1 neuron. 

EhnbVRp.jpg

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hodor said:

Abbas, habibi, we ate 8 months of literal shit. We endured gaslighting of astounding proportions, saw our friends delete, saw their deletion mocked, and had all of this thrown at us constantly on these forums. The record is public. The good news of this thread is that, I think, Col A sees most of the rank and file of the remaining alliances as not complicit, however the gov of Cam, TCW, and UPN to name a few are the same. Take Epi out of Cam gov and that's a good step in the right direction, but you're gonna have to stick your neck out for Cam for months to come because 8+ months of the worst abuse this game has seen is not going to be overlooked by Epi not lighting candles at IQ's grave for 1 month, and Cam returning a STOLEN bank.

Addressing 3. I'm not sure who you're referring to here, but I'll repeat my line. I for one, having spent most of my pre-TGH PnW career in t$, was furious when you all hit my allies. I let it be known, and I think most in CHAOS agreed at that point. I and many other, however, walked it back when you all got smacked silly by Grumpy and Guardian and did not expand to the larger Col A. As for the "dumb rhetoric", I addressed this above to Abbas in part, but also made the point repeatedly on these forums at the time. We were pissed and we let everyone know, but I think you characterizing it as impactful is wrong. IQ twisted every word that came out of any non-IQ members mouth. They always had full and complete control over their members opinions as made evident from the ample damning IQ leaks having no effect on internal IQ morale or dedication and their members defending OBVIOUS cheating. Our words had zero impact thanks to the powerful NPO and BK propaganda machinery

Similarly, I will out myself as one of the pre-war optimists. I saw the original NPO-t$ treaty plan as one that, if it went exactly as it was supposed to, would create a more dynamic and less toxic political atmosphere. Clearly, for many reasons, the execution was botched.

I actually was not referring to you individually with 3, Hodor :P. As far as I know, we've been fine since our talk postwar. There's others though.

Edit: Reading up on the rest-

I disagree with the notion that nothing more could have been done in terms of FA. It's all coulda-woulda, but the way in which certain figures approached the PR aspect of the early fight against IQ, it gave IQ room to build a lot of leverage. That's more a strategic musing than anything. My broader point was that its a bit disingenious to attribute the war to a half-executed plan 1 year prior. Did a chain of events originate there? Yes. Does it mean I or t$ is responsible for everything that occurred since? No. Anyone who pushes that drivel can bite me. Haha

It's also mostly a matter of intent: t$  at no point aligned even remotely with the malicious intent exhibited by IQ. t$' ideas and plans were built on the optimistic idea of breaking up the political environment (as you are referring to). It failed, and mistakes were made. That in no way should come close to being equated to NPO or enabling NPO.

Edited by Prefonteen

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Prefonteen said:

lol. Who shat in your cereal.

Fine. I'll bite charles.

Your entire piece boils down to a pretty much unfounded "TS MAN BAD". Not sure whether you're flinging shit to see what sticks, or whether you're just that badly informed. I'm used to you at least being slightly on point, so that's surprising.

I've bolded the parts where you make idiotic claims. I'll break them down for you chronologically.

1) You know absolutely squat about what t$ members do or do not know. There are regular discussions in t$' member channels in which gov expands on questions and even goes through our own mistakes or failings. This suggestion on your part is little more than a barb thrown in to reinforce a bias (all gov = bad) stemming from your own convictions about transparency and democracy.

2) While tS made some serious mistakes which contributed to enabling NPO, it's public record that t$ gov at the time absolutely abhorred NPO's moves from the entry against TKR and onward. t$' refusal to play ball and subsequent political interactions following that entry directly caused the breakdown between t$-NPO. Meaning: t$ shifted gears and stopped supporting NPO at the first sight of bullshit. t$' unwillingness to assist parties which it had rocky relations with prior to that does not equate to supporting NPO in its crusade to kill off communities. The rhetoric you spew is baseless.

3) A certain contingent of ex-TGH loves to bring this up as a party line. It does not hold. Even discounting the fact that my plans over a year before last war were not executed in the manner in which I had planned them (the executed variation was far more lenient to BK than mine was), there has been a large chain of events which culminated in this war. Throughout that chain, various actors made decisions which moved pieces into place to create the scenario we ended up with. One thing I'd point out for example is again, the dumb rhetoric of certain KT-TGH government figures throughout dial-up which closed doors, allowed IQ an internal rallying cry and gave them a party line to parrot for the justification of their push for disbanding opposition.

The PR and FA was absolutely botched.

4) Im not sure if "t$ criticizing commonwealth" is what set you off, but reading through this thread, we're looking at one member placing one flag in a meme including 7 other alliances. Beyond that, t$ has been mostly absent. Seems to me like you've got an axe to grind and decided to grab the excuse and drill in.

 

or am I wrong?

 

 

Talk is cheap.

The truth of the matter is, if you had abhored NPO's actions and wanted to do something about it as much as you are claiming, you would have done something about it much earlier than you did. Instead you sat on the sidelines for close to 5 months and only entered when NPO left you no choice. 

How much abhorence does it actually take for you to do something about it of your own voilition? 

So yeah, keep talking. 

 

 

Edited by Thorkell Hardrada
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

 

Talk is cheap.

The truth of the matter is, if you had abhored NPO's actions and wanted to do something about it as much as you are claiming, you would have done something about it much earlier than you did. Instead you sat on the sidelines for close to 5 months and only entered when NPO left you no choice. 

How much abhorence does it actually take for you to do something about it of your own voilition? 

 

 

Your response to me breaking down the shit you're peddling is to ignore the body and double down by spewing more broad bs that'd require me to drill down. I could bite and post another WoT outlining why you're wrong. That'd cost effort however.

So instead, i'm going to just lol at your weak bait.

Edited by Prefonteen
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

Your response to me breaking down the shit you're peddling is to ignore the body and double down by spewing more broad claims that'd require me to drill down. I could bite and post another WoT outlining why you're wrong. That'd cost effort however.

So instead, i'm going to just lol at you weak bait.

Heh, I actually had a decent sized wall of text written up but I decided to delete it because this is what you do. You write up walls of text with irrelevant points all over the place, strawman arguments and all. And then when people respond in kind, you focus on little tidbits of information to further discredit someone without addressing the main points at hand. You have done it for close to a decade and I am amazed people still fall for the same old routine to be honest.

So instead I decided to remain on point and not offer you any little tidbits of escape from the question at hand. And like I predicted, you walked away when your usual gameplan wasn't gonna work. I suppose getting rusty is what happens when you spend years arguing with the likes of roq and leo.

a8eebf4bc769368e3abb03819973440d.gif

Edited by Thorkell Hardrada
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2 minutes ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Heh, I actually had a decent sized wall of text written up but I decided to delete it because this is what you do. You write up walls of text with irrelevant points all over the place, strawman arguments and all. And then when people respond in kind, you focus on little tidbits of information to further discredit someone without addressing the main points at hand. You have done it for close to a decade and I am amazed people still fall for the same old routine to be honest.

So instead I decided to remain on point and not offer you any little tidbits of escape from the question at hand. And like I predicted, you walked away when your usual gameplan wasn't gonna work.

a8eebf4bc769368e3abb03819973440d.gif

You mean... that I actually address the points you bring up? Sue me lmfao. 

Beyond that, there's not much I can respond to drivel about what I supposedly have or haven't done in 10 years. Any claims I make, I stand by, because I can support it with evidence.

I suggest you do some research.

 

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1 minute ago, Prefonteen said:

You mean... that I actually address the points you bring up? Sue me lmfao. 

Beyond that, there's not much I can respond to drivel about what I supposedly have or haven't done in 10 years. Any claims I make, I stand by, because I can support it with evidence.

I suggest you do some research.

 

Go on then, supply the reasoning for why it took 5 months of being abhored before you did something about it. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Go on then, supply the reasoning for why it took 5 months of being abhored before you did something about it. 

 

I just did in our our ex-member channel. Convo closed I hope?

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18 minutes ago, Prefonteen said:

I just did in our our ex-member channel. Convo closed I hope?

Keep hoping :)

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WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

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2 hours ago, Prefonteen said:

You mean... that I actually address the points you bring up? Sue me lmfao.

 

Careful. These are crazy times we are living in.

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

Your obsession with Aku/CotL is getting to be borderline creepy...
 

Fake edit: Sorry for the double post

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage.

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

tenor.gif?itemid=9719948

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

Did you know your alliance's ally The Immortals has a direct treaty to Children of the Light and Akuryo? Akuryo is officially the ally of your ally, just think of how wonderful that is!

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1 hour ago, Firwof Kromwell said:

WHy does the blame fall on NPO-sphere? We were just cleansing the game of NP-sphere influence that all! But I bet someone in that area whined, complained & salted so much that they got the Mods attention as well their trust. After a few years of NPO keeping the game stocked w/ rss, a great community, & great military service this is how we treat them after they left?  I never realized this until after I joined TUSA. They saw corruption in NP-sphere & how they were treating people. Great! Some of the way the did things were not so pretty but were necessary to keep order. Now we are placing all the blame for what happened on them cus some of us can not except the truth put speculate based on our emotions toward them.  Well whining/complain ain't gonna do much to be honest. Use facts over emotion. Also, they never wanted such a prolonged war. But those against them wanted them done so bad that it came to be that way. After IQ proving strong they had nothing else then to "prove" that NPO, Goons, & GPWC that they did wrong to Alex cus how they were supplying themselves & their allies.  After NPO ¨Cheat Day¨ went down TCW switched sides on views of them & pushed NP sphere away. Now we have CotL sphere being ignorant, hypocritical, & over-emotional as ever cus Rose-sphere & Common-sphere do not agree which brought in Syndi-sphere to CotLś side.  There is a reason why most Pirates, mercs, & SWAMP-sphere are keeping out cus we knew that something like this would happen.

Polite notice please don't bring up Swamp in this.

3 hours ago, Thorkell Hardrada said:

Heh, I actually had a decent sized wall of text written up but I decided to delete it because this is what you do. You write up walls of text with irrelevant points all over the place, strawman arguments and all. And then when people respond in kind, you focus on little tidbits of information to further discredit someone without addressing the main points at hand. You have done it for close to a decade and I am amazed people still fall for the same old routine to be honest.

So instead I decided to remain on point and not offer you any little tidbits of escape from the question at hand. And like I predicted, you walked away when your usual gameplan wasn't gonna work. I suppose getting rusty is what happens when you spend years arguing with the likes of roq and leo.

a8eebf4bc769368e3abb03819973440d.gif

Hold on are we talking about how TEst bailed out of the war and got hit. So Syndi and their allies came to your rescue, because that's so nice of you to value what we did for you in your time of need. 

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