greatkitteh Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Meh, both UPN and t$ each thought they were 100% right and the other one was wrong. As someone who has heard both versions (I still like UPN btw), I can say that wasn't the case. UPN preempted t$ in Oktoberfest with Hans at the helm, so t$ saw Hans back in power as a threat and decided to preempt UPN in NPO's First Time. And c'mooon... Paracov never really split up, otherwise they wouldn't have united to hit OOsphere. Expect it did? They just say geniuses think alike Quote :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Offer $500mil, NPO. You have to go all Pawn Stars here. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatkitteh Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Offer $500mil, NPO. You have to go all Pawn Stars here. What a reasonable price! Quote :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 It's really not that. We spelled out the implications of this war multiple times. Someone else pointed out NPO more or less ended up functioning as a balancing force to reinforce losses of Paracov, but we knew we'd be done in terms of having a potential non-tS alignment being a serious competitor in wars if we didn't win here and we were barely able to get everyone together due to the splits/distancing. There will really be no one for you to fight aside from smaller curbstomps. No one is coming to our rescue and no one is obligated to do so. That is reality. You guys can talk all about how Mensa-tS fun war would happen if we weren't around, but we wouldn't be able to do anything anyway. Every effort you've made since taking control of NPO has further cemented you into your position. The only hope NPO has is for you to take a backseat and let someone else, maybe Frawley, take over and try to correct the course. Politically I don't believe you'll recover while you are Emperor, if at all due to your actions and speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Meh, both UPN and t$ each thought they were 100% right and the other one was wrong. As someone who has heard both versions (I still like UPN btw), I can say that wasn't the case. UPN preempted t$ in Oktoberfest with Hans at the helm, so t$ saw Hans back in power as a threat and decided to preempt UPN in NPO's First Time. And c'mooon... Paracov never really split up, otherwise they wouldn't have united to hit OOsphere. Trust me, they split up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Every effort you've made since taking control of NPO has further cemented you into your position. The only hope NPO has is for you to take a backseat and let someone else, maybe Frawley, take over and try to correct the course. Politically I don't believe you'll recover while you are Emperor, if at all due to your actions and speech. You do realize Frawley is the person who appointed me and agrees with practically everything I've done? There is no one who thinks you guys are in the right in the entire alliance. If I end up stepping down at some point, it'll entirely be my decision and not due to external pressure. The constant demands you guys have had for regime change really are counter-productive to that goal. The problem though, you, is you don't seem to get that no one is particularly for accommodating for the people who have proven to be unreasonable and have axes to grind. The Moo-Cows reference in this topic was particularly over the top, but it's hardly singular. The more honest of you have had drastically different assessments in private than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 You do realize Frawley is the person who appointed me and agrees with practically everything I've done? There is no one who thinks you guys are in the right in the entire alliance. If I end up stepping down at some point, it'll entirely be my decision and not due to external pressure. The constant demands you guys have had for regime change really are counter-productive to that goal. The problem though, you, is you don't seem to get that no one is particularly for accommodating for the people who have proven to be unreasonable and have axes to grind. The Moo-Cows reference in this topic was particularly over the top, but it's hardly singular. The more honest of you have had drastically different assessments in private than this. Then you need a viceroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 You do realize Frawley is the person who appointed me and agrees with practically everything I've done? There is no one who thinks you guys are in the right in the entire alliance. If I end up stepping down at some point, it'll entirely be my decision and not due to external pressure. The constant demands you guys have had for regime change really are counter-productive to that goal. The problem though, you, is you don't seem to get that no one is particularly for accommodating for the people who have proven to be unreasonable and have axes to grind. The Moo-Cows reference in this topic was particularly over the top, but it's hardly singular. The more honest of you have had drastically different assessments in private than this. When you're the one in the shit house, if you want to better your position it's on you to change, not demand that other people change. If you refuse to take the steps necessary to improve your situation, then you have no one to blame but yourselves for your predicament. Instead, you have dug your hole deeper. There are a lot of people in TKR that don't like asking for reps and would be sympathetic, but have been turned off by NPO's demeanor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 When you're the one in the shit house, if you want to better your position it's on you to change, not demand that other people change. If you refuse to take the steps necessary to improve your situation, then you have no one to blame but yourselves for your predicament. Instead, you have dug your hole deeper. There are a lot of people in TKR that don't like asking for reps and would be sympathetic, but have been turned off by NPO's demeanor. I don't think I demanded other people change? It's just you're not going to see an alliance sell out to people who hold bizarre grudges from other games. It would actually likely be all around more harmful to do so. It's ultimately if you want a partner for dialogue, then you'll have to be willing to treat us with a basic level of respect. The issue is you really don't realize how you come off here and expect people to want to accommodate people who act the way your side does. Not everyone has been like that and some people are more reasonable. My biggest mistake has been trying to engage your side earnestly in conversation in such a toxic environment. Well, it's NPO's demeanor nonetheless. I can't help you there if you don't understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Name Here Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Trust me, they split up. In theory, yes. In practice it's as if they never drifted apart. Otherwise they would have gone their separate ways instead of teaming up against our sphere. But I'm actually glad they did, because we got to have this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) I don't think I demanded other people change? It's just you're not going to see an alliance sell out to people who hold bizarre grudges from other games. It would actually likely be all around more harmful to do so. It's ultimately if you want a partner for dialogue, then you'll have to be willing to treat us with a basic level of respect. The issue is you really don't realize how you come off here and expect people to want to accommodate people who act the way your side does. Not everyone has been like that and some people are more reasonable. My biggest mistake has been trying to engage your side earnestly in conversation in such a toxic environment. Well, it's NPO's demeanor nonetheless. I can't help you there if you don't understand it. You've broken your fingertips three times over by now typing walls of text trying to convince the rest of us that we hate you. The only toxic environment you're seeing is one you've invented to suit your narrative. Do some people hold a grudge from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? Probably. That number is significantly smaller than you want everyone to believe. Please stop repeating this tired argument. Accept responsibility for your role in creating the current NPO vs. the World attitude in your alliance. Edited October 9, 2016 by Raymond Reddington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 You've broken your fingertips three times over by now typing walls of text trying to convince the rest of us that we hate you. The only toxic environment you're seeing is one you've invented to suit your narrative. Do some people hold a grudge from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)? Probably. That number is significantly smaller than you want everyone to believe. Please stop repeating this tired argument. Accept responsibility for your role in creating the current NPO vs. the World attitude in your alliance. What convincing has to be done? Even gov officials on your side make (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) references. I was even replying to someone who made it clear he doesn't like me and leadership figures in his alliance made it clear too. The veil is long gone. There are some people who are less invested in perpetuating and I'm able to communicate with them in less heated terms privately, but on here you offer nothing of the sort, which is why it's gotten pointless. This isn't really true. Your side has gone out of its way to browbeat the opposition out of trying to engage on here. You stigmatize and just shitpost people to hell and back and eventually they give up and just retreat from any elongated discussion. The forums are pretty toxic and I've been posting regardless of that, but given the bad faith, it's not really a good idea. I don't have to accept responsibility for something that was already there. Have I communicated how you guys feel? Yes. But you have given all the ammo needed in that regard. I don't even have to try really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I don't think I demanded other people change? It's just you're not going to see an alliance sell out to people who hold bizarre grudges from other games. It would actually likely be all around more harmful to do so. It's ultimately if you want a partner for dialogue, then you'll have to be willing to treat us with a basic level of respect. The issue is you really don't realize how you come off here and expect people to want to accommodate people who act the way your side does. Not everyone has been like that and some people are more reasonable. My biggest mistake has been trying to engage your side earnestly in conversation in such a toxic environment. Well, it's NPO's demeanor nonetheless. I can't help you there if you don't understand it. Respect runs both way. When people from your alliance are constantly dishonest, whiny, arrogant, and even straight up delusional/brainwashed, you can hardly expect people to treat you with respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowthrone Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Respect runs both way. When people from your alliance are constantly dishonest, whiny, arrogant, and even straight up delusional/brainwashed, you can hardly expect people to treat you with respect. Please teach us all about honesty. I mean TKR are clearly honest folks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I don't know that Mensa has any people who played (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). We don't like NPO either, but that is entirely from politicsandwar. Just for the record. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Please teach us all about honesty. I mean TKR are clearly honest folks Very honest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I don't know that Mensa has any people who played (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). We don't like NPO either, but that is entirely from politicsandwar. Just for the record. It doesn't really matter since Mensa is only one alliance in a general side that has plenty of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) players that have issues with us or individuals based on (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). We have in-game reasons not to be fond of Mensa as well. I didn't even really need to utilize any external reason to justify a preemptive hit. Your alliance contributed a lot to it including your own posturing. If you don't know the people you're aligned with's histories to figure out it does color perceptions, it's not really something I can help you with. I never said "the only people who don't like NPO are former (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) players" but given the posts here, it's pretty obvious a good portion of them are. Gov officials have acknowledged this is the case in private. As long as people still try to pretend otherwise, the discussion is in bad faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Please teach us all about honesty. I mean TKR are clearly honest folks Most honorable alliance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Avruch Posted October 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2016 It doesn't really matter since Mensa is only one alliance in a general side that has plenty of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) players that have issues with us or individuals based on (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways). We have in-game reasons not to be fond of Mensa as well. I didn't even really need to utilize any external reason to justify a preemptive hit. Your alliance contributed a lot to it including your own posturing. If you don't know the people you're aligned with's histories to figure out it does color perceptions, it's not really something I can help you with. I never said "the only people who don't like NPO are former (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) players" but given the posts here, it's pretty obvious a good portion of them are. Gov officials have acknowledged this is the case in private. As long as people still try to pretend otherwise, the discussion is in bad faith. Mensa doesn't care if you have a justification for your pre-emptive hit. My point is that your in-game conduct is perfectly sufficient to cause people to not like NPO. More importantly, whether people dislike you from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) is both irrelevant and perhaps unavoidable. It's a fact of human nature that if you form an opinion of someone in one context, that opinion doesn't magically disappear when the context changes. If you were !@#$ in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), then that follows you. But the cause of whatever dislike you are encountering doesn't matter, it doesn't invalidate positions or actions here nor is it some sort of get out of jail free card for you here as you seem to think. "These opinions are all from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), therefore you can't use them against us here!" Uh huh. All of this discussion boils down to this: You have bungled your entry into this game. You came in with a team and a strategy, executed presumably to plan and ended up rekt and hopelessly screwed. There is no one else to blame for your failure except yourselves. How will you react? What is your new plan? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roquentin Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) Mensa doesn't care if you have a justification for your pre-emptive hit. My point is that your in-game conduct is perfectly sufficient to cause people to not like NPO. More importantly, whether people dislike you from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) is both irrelevant and perhaps unavoidable. It's a fact of human nature that if you form an opinion of someone in one context, that opinion doesn't magically disappear when the context changes. If you were !@#$ in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), then that follows you. But the cause of whatever dislike you are encountering doesn't matter, it doesn't invalidate positions or actions here nor is it some sort of get out of jail free card for you here as you seem to think. "These opinions are all from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), therefore you can't use them against us here!" Uh huh. All of this discussion boils down to this: You have bungled your entry into this game. You came in with a team and a strategy, executed presumably to plan and ended up rekt and hopelessly screwed. There is no one else to blame for your failure except yourselves. How will you react? What is your new plan? It can be sufficient for some, but it influencing others poisons the well in terms of how people approach it. I don't treat it as a get out of jail free card. The issue is the opposition has long stood on the principle of separating the politics of both games and would chastise us for allying people we have associations with in another contexts even when it wasn't exact crossovers. If they want to dislike NPO because of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), that is their right and it would be more honest rather than the two-faced rhetoric. It invalidates positions in that context as it is no longer a separate game(but rather a continuation of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)) if it's embraced as something to make decisions or base stances on. If that is how you want it to be, so be it. I'm not really sure how it'd just be us to blame for our "failure" since we're not the only players here. I wouldn't really say it was executed to plan as the game never attracted the level of interest(since a lot of people don't want to play another game, especially one that is more time consuming than (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)/NS) it would have needed to in order for us to do it according to plan and it's been a significant setback along with the high attrition(which that factor contributed to) before the "NPO's First Time". With that said, I'm not trying to play the victim, but we do not operate in a vacuum and others have contributed to our "failure". Getting rekt isn't really something we would try to avoid at all costs, especially if it came at compromising our integrity as an alliance. I realize this is foreign to some of you, however, which is why the "win at all costs" rhetoric I sometimes see doesn't really surprise me. We were willing to stay allied to people we knew would be in trouble, for instance from very early on. As for our plan, we'll have to see how this turns out. edit: cleared it up. Edited October 9, 2016 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auctor Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 haha. "we're totally against reps but since you don't intend to pay them, we're making an exception." Try Harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foltest Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I can only bring the horse to water, I cannot make him drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatkitteh Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 #purgeroquentin? Quote :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 sa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehreno Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 This is now the "BK's Length War" 6 weeks long and still unable to satisfy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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