Corporal Punishment In Schools

[WISD0MTREE]

Should corporal punishment be allowed in schools? Debate. 

 

Back when I was in middle school/junior high (whatever you call it), there was this kid. This kid's name was Rob (not really, but it was a variation of Rob). It was the end of the day in English class and the teacher told us to get out our books. He just sat there, didn't say a word, and stared at the teacher. The AP had to get security to remove him from class. The next day, he started punching kids in the hallway. The AP gave him ISS for a week (In School Suspension). Once his ISS was over, he started punching kids in the face again. The AP called the police and he was sent to juvenile detention. When he got back, he was walking down the hallway and some kid yelled, "IS IT LUNCH TIME?" 

"NO, IT IS LYNCH TIME!" 

Then I saw the most beautiful sight ever. Six kids who weren't even talking to each other jumped him. He was sent to the hospital once they got the fight riot under control. Even though he still didn't comply with teachers, Rob didn't hit another kid the rest of the year. I think he got over 130 days in ISS and two weeks in juvie. 

Edited July 1, 2015 by WISD0MTREE

[Ekejen Luish]

At least put a poll...

[WISD0MTREE]

At least put a poll...

Done. 

[Alex]

Your example sounds more like vigilante justice than corporal punishment to me.

[MRBOOTY]

No. Why the !@#$ should teachers be allowed to hit kids in schools? Corporal punishment dosen't work for parents to do it, and in schools it's a !@#$ing disaster. Ever wonder why the states in which the most kids still get hit (Mississippi, Alabama, Texas) are also the ones with the highest crime rate?

[Buorhann]

No. Why the !@#$ should teachers be allowed to hit kids in schools? Corporal punishment dosen't work for parents to do it, and in schools it's a !@#$ing disaster. Ever wonder why the states in which the most kids still get hit (Mississippi, Alabama, Texas) are also the ones with the highest crime rate?

 

 

Obviously that's the reason.  Good job on stretching that out.

 

By the way, top 10 states with highest crime rates?  Only 4 allow corporal punishment in schools.  Top 10 safest states?  Again, 4 of them allow corporal punishment in schools.  Also, the three states you listed are not even in the top 10 highest crime rates.  Louisiana, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Florida would be the states you're aiming for.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Buorhann

[Solomon]

I can understand that uncooperative students are a source of frustration for teachers but venting that frustration by using physical violence against students sets a bad example, and teachers more than anyone else (except maybe the police) should set a positive example.

[Odin]

[...]

When he got back, he was walking down the hallway and some kid yelled, "IS IT LUNCH TIME?" 

"NO, IT IS LYNCH TIME!" 

[...]

Six kids who weren't even talking to each other jumped him.

[...]he got over 130 days in ISS and two weeks in juvie. 

 

Did i misunderstand something? xD

 

Anyway, i just go with in exceptional cases. Though not by teachers, if... then thats the task of their parents. If a teacher would hit them, even if they got some right to do it, they'd would end up rather fast in court.

[Sailor Jerry]

So a year and a half ago, we (my family) was put into a situation with my son at school (5th grade) which resulted in him getting a few swats.  Let me start by saying this, over the years, we have told our kids to let teachers or adults know when there are problems.  With have also told them to stick up for themselves if and when the time warrants and they are not getting the help they need from the teachers or other adults and to stick up for and to help out those that need help.  Ok, so now the scene.  My son's class was out at recess and playing kickball, my son, whose attention was initially diverted to something else, heard a sudden commotion and turned to see what was going on.  One of the class bullies was pushing a smaller kid around and yelling at him for something dealing with their game.  Now, this bully kid has been to the office many times for starting fights, bulling, name calling, the typical crap that comes from someone who thinks they can keep getting away with this behavior because nothing ever happens....also the fact that the bully's mom is a teacher at the school seems to give this kid a free pass.  Anyway, my son steps up to help out the smaller kid and starts yelling at the bully to back off and lets continue the game.  The bully steps up and shoves my son backwards, at which point my son shoves him back (mind you though my son is fairly good size for age....turning 12 in a week and is 5'4" and 120lbs.).  The bully steps up again and shoves him a second time.  At this point, my son pretty much lost it and delivered what could only be described as a "textbook" right cross into the kids left eye.   

 

Now, the school handbook defined this incident as a "Fight" (mutual combatants) instead of an "Assault" (an unprovoked attack by an individual).  The consequences for "Fighting" first offense was either 3 days out of school suspension or 3 swats.  I grew up in Arizona in the 70's and 80's and swats were a way of life then.  My wife however grew up in up state New York where swats haven't been enforced for a very long time.  We talked about it, I said the swats will hurt for a bit and there is a degree of embarrassment involved, but after 10 or so minutes in the Asst. Principals office, hes back in class and that is the end of it.  On the other hand, if he is suspended, that means not only does he miss school and have to make up the 3 days worth of work, one of us would have had to take 3 days off of work which would have meant a good portion of one of paychecks would have suffered that week.

 

He did what we had taught him to do, stand up for others and stand up for yourself so from our end, at home, we didn't feel he needed any more of a punishment.  After that incident, the bully had calmed down somewhat, my son gained a little "playground respect" from both kids and some of the other teachers and he also learned that sometimes things don't need to escalate as fast as he did, he still could have walked from the situation and got teacher if he needed.  He was not traumatized from getting the swats and things have been....well....normal.  

 

So, do I condone/support swats in school....yes, but only when it is needed and should only be done sparingly.  If swats are used for any little infraction, then yes, I think it would loose its effectiveness.  Kids would no longer be afraid of getting swats and would grow resentful of them and school staff which could lead to a whole host of other issues.    

[Hysteria]

Hitting Children as a form of punishment  IS SIMPLY NEVER EFFECTIVE

 

Not the same as abuse but I would argue it has just as many bad outcomes.

Effects on child

â—¦Increased immediate compliance

â—¦Less moral internalization

â—¦More aggression

â—¦More delinquent and antisocial behavior

â—¦Lower quality of parent-child relationship

â—¦Poorer mental health (child)

â—¦More likely to be a victim of physical abuse (child)

^ So please if you want your child to suffer from any or combination of those please keep hitting them. It is like striking a dog or a cat because they pooped in the house. They do not hold the mental capacity to understand what they did so their punishment in their mind is just their parents being an !@#$ to them.

Outcomes in adulthood (long-term)

â—¦More aggression
â—¦More delinquent and antisocial behavior
â—¦Poorer mental health (weak correlation) â—¦More abuse of own child (weak correlation)

Desirable outcomes like teaching your child a lesson is not consistent across studies.

Negative outcomes  of hitting your child is consistently found across studies. Corporal punishment increases negatively outcomes, and has little long-term positive effects.

People love to take specific examples of their own experience and apply them to everyone else. ''Well I got hit and I turned out all right'' is one of the common responses. Well chances are if you didn't get hit you would have been much more mentality stable and happier as a child.

PLEASE STOP STRIKING YOUR CHILD AND TEACHING THEM TO STRIKE OTHERS WHEN THEY GET ANGRY! This only gets worse as they age and can effect the development of a proper Conscience in your child.

Sources 

Dr. Shayne Jones  (http://criminology.cbcs.usf.edu/facultyStaff/bio.cfm?ID=45)You can see all the Peer Reviewed Articles he has published in academic journals

(https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=4mR7y2MAAAAJ&hl=en)
Myself 
 

Edited July 1, 2015 by Hysteria

[Sailor Jerry]

 

Hitting Children as a form of punishment  IS SIMPLY NEVER EFFECTIVE

 

Not the same as abuse but I would argue it has just as many bad outcomes.

Effects on child

â—¦Increased immediate compliance

â—¦Less moral internalization

â—¦More aggression

â—¦More delinquent and antisocial behavior

â—¦Lower quality of parent-child relationship

â—¦Poorer mental health (child)

â—¦More likely to be a victim of physical abuse (child)

 

^ So please if you want your child to suffer from any or combination of those please keep hitting them. It is like striking a dog or a cat because they pooped in the house. They do not hold the mental capacity to understand what they did so their punishment in their mind is just their parents being an !@#$ to them.

 

Outcomes in adulthood (long-term)

â—¦More aggression

â—¦More delinquent and antisocial behavior

â—¦Poorer mental health (weak correlation) â—¦More abuse of own child (weak correlation)

 

Desirable outcomes like teaching your child a lesson is not consistent across studies.

Negative outcomes  of hitting your child is consistently found across studies. Corporal punishment increases negatively outcomes, and has little long-term positive effects.

People love to take specific examples of their own experience and apply them to everyone else. ''Well I got hit and I turned out all right'' is one of the common responses. Well chances are if you didn't get hit you would have been much more mentality stable and happier as a child.

 

PLEASE STOP STRIKING YOUR CHILD AND TEACHING THEM TO STRIKE OTHERS WHEN THEY GET ANGRY! This only gets worse as they age and can effect the development of a proper Conscience in your child.

 

Sources 

Dr. Shayne Jones  (http://criminology.cbcs.usf.edu/facultyStaff/bio.cfm?ID=45)You can see all the Peer Reviewed Articles he has published in academic journals

(https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=4mR7y2MAAAAJ&hl=en)

Myself 

 

 

First off, this form of punishment needs to only be used in rare circumstances.  Once it starts to get out of hand and is used for every little offense, then yes, I would agree that if used improperly, those negative effects would probably manifest themselves as the child grows up.  Another problem with this is I think in a lot of cases, the rules/guidelines for using such punishment are not discussed with the child before hand.  Like in my son's case, it spells it out right in their school's handbook what would be the consequences if there are any infractions.  On the first day of school each year, he brings home the current years handbook and the parents are suppose to sit down with their child, go through the handbook and both, child and parent, have to sign a slip stating that they have read and understand it and the slip has to be returned the next school day.

 

Now in the home, I do think some parents use it as their only form of punishment which to me is bordering on abuse.  If the child knows in advance that swats could be the result of bad behavior after being given one or two warnings, this gives them a little leeway to figure out on their own how and what is appropriate behavior.  I have seen way to many spoiled little brats in stores or out in public who will make such a fuss and raise all sorts of hell just so they can get what they want and the parents who don't believe in a good swat or two after the child has been told no several times only really has two options, cave in and give the kid what they want so they will shut up, or listen to the tantrum all day and end up with a migraine.  There are a lot of folks out there who believe the way they were brought up by their parents was the wrong way of doing things.  They say "I'll never raise my kid like my parents raised me".  They feel they need to be the child's "Friend" and not a parent and I personally believe that this has had more of a diverse effect on how kids are turning out these days because no one tells them no and means it.....they all have this sense of self entitlement....that they should be given everything they want, then they get in to school or in the real world as adults and can't handle rejection.    

 

Didn't Coach just give us a real life example that worked?

Yes.  It has never happened since, he is a straight "A" student, in junior BETA club and plays on a year round, travel soccer club.  Great kid and well adjusted, clearly the event he was in had such a diverse effect on him that he'll probably go out tomorrow and mow down a bus load of senior citizens and nuns! 

 

 

EDIT REASON:  Stupid grammar!!!!

Edited July 1, 2015 by Coach

[Mutwa]

I have lived in countries where hidings were allowed and where they were not and in my experience, children who got hidings were FAR better behaved on average than those that did not.

 

With a hiding they can't really avoid the punishment, with anything else they could just ignore whatever restrictions you place on them. What do you do then? Restrict them further? Since they aren't abiding by your restrictions to start off with how is that going to help any? If someone isn't around to enforce the restrictions then they are only as effective as the child's willingness to follow them.

[Hysteria]

See you guys are making my case for me. I mentioned earlier the only thing striking a child teaches them is to immediately comply with the person that hits them.

 

When those people are not around and the child is in a weak social situation, where it is not clear how they should act, they will revert back to their old behavior.

 

Also another interesting study I got replicate in my graduate courses is that parents don't hit their children unless they are in the heat of the moment and their rage kicks in.

 

When we allowed the parent 15-45 minutes to cool down. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM CAME BACK AND SPANKED THEIR KID.

 

So why if this was good for a child would parents feel so terribly about it?

 

Coach address you specifically you sound like a good parent. Most people don't understand or just don't take the time to explain the conqueneces to your children for there actions. Also people think they can sit a child down once and never have to have the same conversation. It's like an animal repetition is key.

 

THE BIGGEST IDEA I WANT YOU TO TAKE AWAY FROM THIS IS THAT REWARDING GOOD BEHAVIOR GET YOU 100x FURTHER THAN PUNISHING BAD BEHAVIOR.

 

Look I was raised with getting spanked. I believed in it because I turned out alright. But when I got to college and was educated to the facts of the matter I did a complete 360. I see no place for striking a child in proper parenting. If anything you are being selfish and nieve to think your child's bad behavior is anything less than your skills as a parent.

 

There are also a lot of parents that think they can be best friends with their children. Being too lenient is just as bad as being too harsh or abusive actually. As a parent you have to find the common ground with your child and build lasting bonds, but also know by to stamp out bad traits before they fester for too long.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Hysteria

[LordRahl2]

I did a complete 360.

 

So you agree with your original position?

[Hysteria]

So you agree with your original position?

Lmao 180 is what I meant

[Big Brother]

Nope.

 

This shouldn't even be a debate. Corporal punishment is utterly archaic, it's not even worth considering.

[Solomon]

Nope.

 

This shouldn't even be a debate. Corporal punishment is utterly archaic, it's not even worth considering.

Even if something is archaic, when there are still people who haven't realized that, it's worth talking about it.

[LordRahl2]

Just out of curiosity is anyone other than Coach and I posting in this thread a parent?

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Just out of curiosity is anyone other than Coach and I posting in this thread a parent?

 

Some are kids, xdxd.

[Mutwa]

See you guys are making my case for me. I mentioned earlier the only thing striking a child teaches them is to immediately comply with the person that hits them.

 

When those people are not around and the child is in a weak social situation, where it is not clear how they should act, they will revert back to their old behavior.

 

 

Hardly, the children I speak about who tend to disregard their parents when they aren't around are those I knew who never got hidings.

 

Don't get me wrong, many children are generally well behaved regardless how their parents tend to punish them. The trick is in being consistent so that the child knows where the boundaries are.

 

 

 

 

When we allowed the parent 15-45 minutes to cool down. NOT ONE SINGLE ONE OF THEM CAME BACK AND SPANKED THEIR KID.

 

So why if this was good for a child would parents feel so terribly about it?

 

Strange then that the only instance I can 100% vouch for is myself, and I never spank my kids in anger. The first part of the punishment is always being sent to their room to consider what they have done and why it was wrong. Once I have given us both some time we will discuss what happened and a punishment will be given, whether that be grounding, loss of privileges, additional chores or a hiding.

 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity is anyone other than Coach and I posting in this thread a parent?

 

Yes, I have 2 sons, 9 and 13.

[MRBOOTY]

Didn't Coach just give us a real life example that worked?

His kid got hit... for standing up to a bully. How did that work? If he does stand up to the bully the next time then clearly the swats didnt get the message across, and if he dosen't hit the bully then congrats... the school just taught a kid to be a !@#$ and not stand up to bad people when they do bad things.

[Sailor Jerry]

His kid got hit... for standing up to a bully. How did that work? If he does stand up to the bully the next time then clearly the swats didnt get the message across, and if he dosen't hit the bully then congrats... the school just taught a kid to be a !@#$ and not stand up to bad people when they do bad things.

I agree completely.  Schools now a days seem to not care about who was right or who was wrong, everyone gets dealt with.  This is why I strongly believe that parents should be the bigger and more influential teachers of their children and not leave it up to the school system.  If the situation my son was in every happened again exactly as before, yes he might have pause to think his actions though and maybe remove himself from the situation if he can safely do so.  However, he knows his parents have his back, and if needs to stand his ground and it's justified and the schools still wishes to pursue punishment for his actions, that's when we, as his parents, step in and bring the matter to the school board.....and an attorney if need be.  A few swats and a little embarrassment is a very little cost when compared to knowing you stood up for yourself or for others who need some help than too stand by and watch helplessly for fear of punishment.

[Eru Iluvatar]

Some are kids, xdxd.

Either that or adults that act like kids.

[WISD0MTREE]

I did a complete 360

So y-

 

So you agree with your original position?

Beat me to it.

[Hysteria]

So y-

 

Beat me to it.

 

You contributions to the OP have been endless