Notice of Reclamation

[Oskar]

You've also been raided by VE, Rose and Arrgh. Maybe you are doing something wrong

Mensa. 3 raids. 1 day. Rose only one person (0zon3) attacked me. And VE only one attacked me along time ago for somebody in my old alliance attacking VE. I don't remember Arrgh, but ok, I'll take your word. Anyways, Mensa did by far the most damage in the least time. 

[Cromstar]

I do not see the stipulation, or the attempt by Mensa to add in said stipulation to be outrageous. As government of the raider, it makes sense to attempt to mitigate financial damage (as in- minimize the amount of reps to be paid) by adding in such a stipulation. This does not however, mean that the raided party is obligated in any way, shape or form to accept it. It's a matter of the interests of both parties being fundamentally opposed, as one favors the raided and one the raider. 

 

I actually agree with what you've said here. That succinctly summarizes the reality of the situation, in a simplified nutshell.

[Buorhann]

Mensa. 3 raids. 1 day. Rose only one person (0zon3) attacked me. And VE only one attacked me along time ago for somebody in my old alliance attacking VE. I don't remember Arrgh, but ok, I'll take your word. Anyways, Mensa did by far the most damage in the least time. 

 

Lesson learned?

[Sephiroth]

Mensa. 3 raids. 1 day. Rose only one person (0zon3) attacked me. And VE only one attacked me along time ago for somebody in my old alliance attacking VE. I don't remember Arrgh, but ok, I'll take your word. Anyways, Mensa did by far the most damage in the least time. 

 

As far as I remember your boys also raided BoC and we forgave you, and lucky for you your members never repeated that mistake again or your would have added BoC to that list of people that rolled you.

[Alataq]

If Sheepy rolls back P&W, this whole war so far will be useless.

 

Yay

[Vanek26]

If Sheepy rolls back P&W, this whole war so far will be useless.

 

Yay

 

Wouldn't be the worst thing.

[Oskar]

Lesson learned?

Nobody raided you.

[dmjohnston]

I do not see the stipulation, or the attempt by Mensa to add in said stipulation to be outrageous. As government of the raider, it makes sense to attempt to mitigate financial damage (as in- minimize the amount of reps to be paid) by adding in such a stipulation. This does not however, mean that the raided party is obligated in any way, shape or form to accept it. It's a matter of the interests of both parties being fundamentally opposed, as one favors the raided and one the raider.

 

Oh absolutely,I agree. But by the same token, we were in no way obligated to accept their denial of our terms, nor are we obligated to allow the attack on our alliance leader. And thus, here we are.

[PigInZen]

As far as I remember your boys also raided BoC and we forgave you, and lucky for you your members never repeated that mistake again or your would have added BoC to that list of people that rolled you.

 

Lucky?  More like wise.  I was one of those Mensa HQ members that raided an inactive member of your alliance (I'm old, if I'm not remembering correctly give the old fart a break) but I *always* offer peace when requested.  That's not called being lucky, it's called not pressing your luck.

 

And since you forgave us why the !@#$ are you bringing it up?  I thought that being forgiven meant that the subject was now moot.  See, to me that's just petty bullshit.  Either you have an axe to grind or you don't.  Either you're willing to forgive people or you're not.  Make up your mind.

[Vanek26]

Ok so I've decided that we'll just offer truces to anyone not named Herano that agrees to not send any aid/money/resources to anyone still in wars, and agree to not start any new wars. 

 

Herano should contact myself or Pfeiffer. 

[Buorhann]

Lucky?  More like wise.  I was one of those Mensa HQ members that raided an inactive member of your alliance (I'm old, if I'm not remembering correctly give the old fart a break) but I *always* offer peace when requested.  That's not called being lucky, it's called not pressing your luck.

 

And since you forgave us why the !@#$ are you bringing it up?  I thought that being forgiven meant that the subject was now moot.  See, to me that's just petty !@#$.  Either you have an axe to grind or you don't.  Either you're willing to forgive people or you're not.  Make up your mind.

 

 

He's talking about Tsar Oskar, who was in a different alliance that raided everybody in lower score ranges.

[PigInZen]

He's talking about Tsar Oskar, who was in a different alliance that raided everybody in lower score ranges.

 

Oh.  Then I really am showing my senility, aren't I?  Oskar deserves all he gets.  He'll be lucky to ever get to three cities.

[emdoublegee]

mmmmm.....so much popcorn and e-tears.

 

Seriously, even as a member of mensaHQ, this is petty and ridiculous....If you have problems with raiding, work things out diplomatically.

 

I like the war module (this is politics AND WAR for crying out loud) in fact I raided as I moved up the ranks to gain cash and move up.  Now in the higher levels, there's less I raid as I don't hit inactives in established alliances.  Personal choice, not a alliance rule per se.  However, I like the freaking out that is going on here...for crying out loud, get a life here!  

[Sephiroth]

Oh.  Then I really am showing my senility, aren't I?  Oskar deserves all he gets.  He'll be lucky to ever get to three cities.

 

lol xD you misunderstood my first message it seems, and the alliance forgave them, personally I just ignored it because when I approached him at first (I did that negotiation) I was being nice and friendly and this guy just blows up saying how shitty it is we are threatening him for something his members did I found that so stupid being that he was the alliance "leader".

 

I simply said in a nice way stop attacking and declare peace because we don't want to roll your alliance...... I didn't even ask for reps.

[Hysteria]

lol xD you misunderstood my first message it seems, and the alliance forgave them, personally I just ignored it because when I approached him at first (I did that negotiation) I was being nice and friendly and this guy just blows up saying how !@#$ it is we are threatening him for something his members did I found that so stupid being that he was the alliance "leader".

 

I simply said in a nice way stop attacking and declare peace because we don't want to roll your alliance...... I didn't even ask for reps.

 

I think you and the rest of the cry babies on this thread misunderstood the !@#$ we give. 

 

We are here to dominate, don't like it? Then get out of our way or be crushed beneath the weight of the ever growing sand.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Hysteria

[Vanek26]

Play nice Hysteria/Patton. 

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

Who are all of you people that think you have the right to tell Mensa how to run their business?   If they want to raid alliances, that is their prerogative.  As long as they continue to be stronger than the people they are raiding, they can dictate any terms they want to the aggrieved party.  Because frankly, unless the little guy has big friends there really isn't shit they can do about it, and Mensa is proving that right now by rolling SI.  Its not a negotiation when one side has all the power.

 

So unless one of you larger alliances wants to white knight for SI and try to put Mensa in its place.  Mensa will continue to do what ever it wants, regardless if other alliances approve or disapprove.  Will it hurt them politically in the long run? sure, but that is their decision to make.

 

 

I also find it hilarious that BoC is so loud in here after their bullshit rolling of ESA.  The crap you guys pulled is much worse than what Mensa is doing.

[Ashland]

 

 

 

I also find it hilarious that BoC is so loud in here after their !@#$ rolling of ESA.  The crap you guys pulled is much worse than what Mensa is doing.

 

 

Who are all of you people that think you have the right to tell Mensa how to run their business?

 

 

That's all I'll say on the matter.  I actually agreed with Pfeiffer on the reps issue.  Reps should be given to nations, not alliances.  An alliance being raided isn't an excuse for it to make out like a bandit.

[Sephiroth]

I also find it hilarious that BoC is so loud in here after their !@#$ rolling of ESA.  The crap you guys pulled is much worse than what Mensa is doing.

 

Whatever you say!

Edited April 15, 2015 by Brian Hurlston

[Shellhound]

There is no such thing as a legitimate target, let's set that straight. Anyone and everyone is a legitimate target. The damage done was done to people who in all honesty won't log back in and if they do, Pfeiffer agreed to pay them reps. SI attacked them, which is entirely legitimate those are the repercussions of raiding. But let's quit with the shit slinging here, neither side is in the wrong. Mensa raided inactives and said they would pay them back if they logged in, reps should be used to rebuild the nations that got hit, not a shitty way of saying sorry.

[Buorhann]

I also find it hilarious that BoC is so loud in here after their !@#$ rolling of ESA.  The crap you guys pulled is much worse than what Mensa is doing.

 

 

BoC has a couple of groupies that like to follow any threads that mentions Mensa.  It started back in February, for god knows what reasoning.  Estelle is the most vocal one, apparently she dragged others with her.

 

They're probably jealous.

[Boony]

I think you and the rest of the cry babies on this thread misunderstood the !@#$ we give. 

 

We are here to dominate, don't like it? Then get out of our way or be crushed beneath the weight of the ever growing sand.

 

RUN EVERYONE RUN

[Fox Fire]

There is no such thing as a legitimate target, let's set that straight. Anyone and everyone is a legitimate target. The damage done was done to people who in all honesty won't log back in and if they do, Pfeiffer agreed to pay them reps. SI attacked them, which is entirely legitimate those are the repercussions of raiding. But let's quit with the !@#$ slinging here, neither side is in the wrong. Mensa raided inactives and said they would pay them back if they logged in, reps should be used to rebuild the nations that got hit, not a !@#$ way of saying sorry.

No. Not really. Reps should be payed to the alliance as a whole as they were members of an alliance. Further more, those nations are still active.

If any of you actually looked at SI bank activity, you can clearly see that as a socialist alliance, we would spread the wealth. So there should no concern whatsoever that those funds would not be used in the right direction.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Buorhann]

Last I saw, one of those targets hasn't logged in since the 5th ( Even till now ) and one of the other targets hasn't logged in 7 days as of now - I think there was 3 targets the raiders of ours in Mensa hit, the inactive one ( Codius ) getting dogpiled on for his inactivity.

 

Looking at the alliance as it is, 8 of the 17 members are either inactive or wait a couple of days before logging in ( There's two "last active in 3 days" and the rest are beyond that ).

 

Saying they are still active is stretching it, at least in regards to the targets raided.

 

 

Not that this really matters, honestly.  What matters is that Hereno wanted Pfeiffer to pay reps his way, and Pfeiffer wanted to pay the reps back his way.  This is where you, as a leader, look at the position your alliance is in and consider the decisions here ( Just like how we may have to consider the PR hit we took here ).  There was nothing saying that Pfeiffer had to pay the reps, he was doing it out of consideration, but when talks go south...  we know the rest of the story.

[Tenages]

There is no such thing as a legitimate target, let's set that straight. Anyone and everyone is a legitimate target. The damage done was done to people who in all honesty won't log back in and if they do, Pfeiffer agreed to pay them reps. SI attacked them, which is entirely legitimate those are the repercussions of raiding. But let's quit with the !@#$ slinging here, neither side is in the wrong. Mensa raided inactives and said they would pay them back if they logged in, reps should be used to rebuild the nations that got hit, not a !@#$ way of saying sorry.

 

Setting aside entirely the war itself (if I were Hereno, I'd have absolutely demanded reps paid to the bank, and if I were Mensa, I'd more than likely have told him to !@#$ off) .....

 

 

.....this post is really in my view a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of reps. Raids are honestly pretty easy to rebuild from. In terms of the hassle of actually negotiating reps verse the actual cost of the damage done, 90% of the time you might as well just skip them and rebuild the nation yourself.

 

The purpose of reps is to be a disincentive to pursue the behavior (i.e. raiding your member) in the future. Rebulding the nation is incidental to the reason for reparations. If the reps are just for rebuilding or regaining what was lost than there's no reason for the raider to not continue to engage in the same behavior towards you. At worst, they break even. At best, you get tired of negotiating reps, and they profit. 

 

While obviously there are times when you might want to just recoup losses (for other political reasons) if your default position on reps is just to regain what you lost, you're wasting your own time and weakening yourself.

 

This, incidentally, is why reps for any raids against SK members are for damages plus a punitive fee, which varies depending on political considerations, how much I like you, your attitude during negotiations, past history, and how much I've had to drink that day.