[Treaty] Why NAP when you can sleep?

[Sketchy]

11 minutes ago, Benfro said:

You accuse everyone else of not staying on topic, but whenever a response is posted, your go to is just “you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.”

That may have worked against our veteran TKR members, some of whom are retired gov etc. But in this case, you didn’t even bother to check who you responded to…

This is the FA high gov of The Immortals. Try a different dismissive argument since you clearly don’t want to actually engage with anyone’s conversation. 

I'm aware of who he is Benfro.

He responded to me by dismissing most of what I said, he didn't want to engage with what I said, so I simply did the same. Maybe you should have read his post first, since everything you are saying, applies to him.

I already engaged with him by making a very long and detailed post, addressing his random comment.

[Diocletian]

12 minutes ago, Benfro said:

You accuse everyone else of not staying on topic, but whenever a response is posted, your go to is just “you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.”

That may have worked against our veteran TKR members, some of whom are retired gov etc. But in this case, you didn’t even bother to check who you responded to…

This is the FA high gov of The Immortals. Try a different dismissive argument since you clearly don’t want to actually engage with anyone’s conversation. 

You realise Sketchy is an oldhead too right? Been gov plenty of places as well, hell I remember this dude when VE was kicking ass and handing out numbers. Anyway, the fact is all  macro gov members involved thought "yeah, this NAP is a great idea to continue" That being the case, no involved parties are particularly blameless. 

[Sketchy]

7 minutes ago, Diocletian said:

You realise Sketchy is an oldhead too right? Been gov plenty of places as well, hell I remember this dude when VE was kicking ass and handing out numbers. 

I appreciate the defence but I'm also thoroughly confused as I never fought against VE lmfao.

[Diocletian]

5 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

I appreciate the defence but I'm also thoroughly confused as I never fought against VE lmfao.

Not speaking in context of who fought who, just that I remember you from back in the day. 

[Sketchy]

5 minutes ago, Diocletian said:

Not speaking in context of who fought who, just that I remember you from back in the day. 

Ah, that makes more sense. I had to double take for a moment and think about if I fought VE lmfao.

[Daveth]

On 4/22/2024 at 3:09 AM, Sketchy said:

These are all claims I can easily support with evidence, if I have to. (...) But past behaviour is a pretty good indicator for future behaviour, and TKR has proven time and time again, that collaboration with you ends poorly for us.

I'm gonna be honest, I find it largely understandable @lancelot1 or anyone would take issue with going along with your claims on TKR, right? Not to say I haven't had my bone to pick with them in the past as well... 

But I've often noticed there seems to be a dynamic of FA heads alluding to having evidence of their claims for the sake of posturing and then withholding said evidence for the sake of OPSEC or some other similar concern. This makes it basically impossible for anyone, let alone someone who has no reason to trust you and doubt their government, to be convinced or take your claim of current or past wrongdoing at face value.

From my understanding, there seems to be a chunk of context missing, which makes it more credible to me as an outside observer that you were "bailed out", "rescued", whatever you want to call it, than the proposed alternative you spoke on extensively. So I don't think its entirely unfair to be dismissive or skeptical when the burden of proof is on you? Again I don't even really like @Dr James Wilson either lol. 

Edited April 24 by Daveth

[Sketchy]

13 minutes ago, Daveth said:

I'm gonna be honest, I find it largely understandable @lancelot1 or anyone would take issue with going along with your claims on TKR, right? Not to say I haven't had my bone to pick with them in the past as well.

But I've often noticed there seems to be a dynamic of FA heads alluding to having evidence of their claims for the sake of posturing and then withholding said evidence for the sake of OPSEC or some other similar concern. This makes it basically impossible for anyone, let alone someone who has no reason to trust you and doubt their government, to be convinced or take your point at face value.

The parties who I was arguing with before random members interjected themselves into the conversation know exactly what I'm referring to. Most of them aren't the ones arguing here anymore though, so it would be probably be bad form to start log dumping on them. I probably would have done that back in the old TGH days.

To be honest, I'm not interested in whether or not bystanders or random members believe what I'm saying. Otherwise you are right, I'd just dump the logs. The parties I'm talking to know what I'm referring to, and the posts I have been making were more directed towards them than towards random members, or FA heads who weren't in any of the chats last war.

On an unrelated note, the thread has reached 10 pages. It's too bad the forums aren't this active more often.

[Kyubnyan]

2 hours ago, Diocletian said:

when VE was kicking ass and handing out numbers.

Erm didn't VE win like a single war in its entire existence. I'm also confused by this statement.

[Daveth]

3 minutes ago, Kyubnyan said:

Erm didn't VE win like a single war in its entire existence. I'm also confused by this statement.

Woah woah, woah. I'll have you know the one true Viridian Entente brought Aurora down to its knees! 

Edited April 24 by Daveth

[Daveth]

38 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

The parties who I was arguing with before random members interjected themselves into the conversation know exactly what I'm referring to. Most of them aren't the ones arguing here anymore though, so it would be probably be bad form to start log dumping on them. I probably would have done that back in the old TGH days.

To be honest, I'm not interested in whether or not bystanders or random members believe what I'm saying. Otherwise you are right, I'd just dump the logs. The parties I'm talking to know what I'm referring to, and the posts I have been making were more directed towards them than towards random members, or FA heads who weren't in any of the chats last war.

On an unrelated note, the thread has reached 10 pages. It's too bad the forums aren't this active more often.

Cool, good on you to acknowledge it - kind of weird to take it out on TKRs folks or Wilson in the crossfire. I'm just saying, its a bit harder to argue you didn't want a NAP when you've signed an extension, and then decide from there between their claims and yours, y'know?

Edited April 24 by Daveth

[Thalmor]

40 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

On an unrelated note, the thread has reached 10 pages. It's too bad the forums aren't this active more often.

Terminal Lucidity

[lancelot1]

1 hour ago, Sketchy said:

To be honest, I'm not interested in whether or not bystanders or random members believe what I'm saying.

Dude, can you make it more than 4 sentences without giving yourself a high five over how involved you are in the goings on of Orbis as compared to others?

As surprising as it may seem, even those of us that need a telescope to view you up on your high pedestal are allowed to comment on this forum and sometimes, even we lowly peasants, understand some of what’s going on this game. 
 

In fact (brace yourself before reading this next part because it will shock you) our TKR gov and high gov members even sometimes ask the “regular members” our opinions before making a decision. I know I know, wild stuff. 
 

All in all, it’s lucky for your alliance’s “regular members” that you are such a benevolent ruler given the lengths you’ve gone to make it crystal clear that you don’t care at all what they—or anyone not special enough to be one of the extra super duper elite alliance high gov members—think.  

Edited April 24 by lancelot1

[Sketchy]

1 hour ago, Daveth said:

Cool, good on you to acknowledge it - kind of weird to take it out on TKRs folks or Wilson in the crossfire. I'm just saying, its a bit harder to argue you didn't want a NAP when you've signed an extension, and then decide from there between their claims and yours, y'know?

Given the original people who made the claim have backed off it, and are no longer responding or claiming we wanted the one day war nap, I suppose that settles the issue.

 

8 minutes ago, lancelot1 said:

Dude, can you make it more than 4 sentences without giving yourself a high five over how involved you are in the goings on of Orbis as compared to others?

As surprising as it may seem, even those of us that need a telescope to view you up on your high pedestal are allowed to comment on this forum and sometimes, even we lowly peasants, understand some of what’s going on this game. 
 

In fact (brace yourself before reading this next part because it will shock you) our TKR gov and high gov members even sometimes ask the “regular members” our opinions before making a decision. I know I know, wild stuff. 
 

All in all, it’s lucky for your alliance’s “regular members” that you are such a benevolent ruler given the lengths you’ve gone to make it crystal clear that you don’t care at all what they—or anyone not special enough to be one of the extra super duper elite alliance high gov members—think.  

 I was directly responding to his point that if I wanted to convince random members of what I was saying, I should log dump the information I'm referring to, by explaining that my goal wasn't to convince random members.

Are you upset I'm not trying to convince you? Is that what the rant is about? What exactly would that accomplish?

I was having a direct argument, with very specific people, and others chose to interject. If I had simply ignored you, and not responded to you at all, would that have been preferable? Seems like that sort of thing is what you were just complaining about.

[lancelot1]

13 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

Given the original people who made the claim have backed off it, and are no longer responding or claiming we wanted the one day war nap, I suppose that settles the issue.

 

 I was directly responding to his point that if I wanted to convince random members of what I was saying, I should log dump the information I'm referring to, by explaining that my goal wasn't to convince random members.

Are you upset I'm not trying to convince you? Is that what the rant is about? What exactly would that accomplish?

I was having a direct argument, with very specific people, and others chose to interject. If I had simply ignored you, and not responded to you at all, would that have been preferable? Seems like that sort of thing is what you were just complaining about.

So essentially you’re upset that “random members” such as myself interject in your discussion between the elite members that you want to talk to? I’m sorry to rain on your high gov parade. Unfortunately, I’m just not as important as you.

You can feel free to keep trying to make me feel bad or stupid or uninformed as much as you’d like, but it doesn’t change the fact that you all made a lame move signing this NAP and your several attempts to blame it on TKR are pathetic and, in many respects, complete fabrications. 

[Sketchy]

9 minutes ago, lancelot1 said:

So essentially you’re upset that “random members” such as myself interject in your discussion between the elite members that you want to talk to? I’m sorry to rain on your high gov parade. Unfortunately, I’m just not as important as you.

You can feel free to keep trying to make me feel bad or stupid or uninformed as much as you’d like, but it doesn’t change the fact that you all made a lame move signing this NAP and your several attempts to blame it on TKR are pathetic and, in many respects, complete fabrications. 

Lmfao upset?

I trolled you a little, it seems it got under your skin.

You have been making assertions throughout the thread to events you weren't a party to. It's not elitist for me to observe that, huh, this lancelot guy was suspiciously absent from every one of the group chats I've been alluding to. I didn't address you until you responded to one of my posts, again asserting things you don't have any knowledge. Hell you just did it again in this post.

I'm not trying to make you feel bad because you are uninformed. You are uninformed. But jeez, spare me the victim routine my guy, you came in here guns blazing, took your shots, and I've responded in kind.

On that note, can someone get this guy some crayons and a coloring book?

[Daveth]

51 minutes ago, Sketchy said:

Given the original people who made the claim have backed off it, and are no longer responding or claiming we wanted the one day war nap, I suppose that settles the issue.

I guess that's one way to look at it. From what I gather, they repeatedly denied your claims, and you didn't prove them wrong and don't seem to intend to, which is fine. 

While it does seem they've stopped engaging here, this could be for any number of reasons like:

- They believe they'd be repeating points made ad nauseam and chose to do whatever else;

- They can't prove the negative of "TKR wasn't working on a deal of their own";

- They have started reaching out privately, etc.

I'm not sure that means the matter has been settled? That said, I'm not particularly vested on the narrative either way, was simply curious.

Edited April 24 by Daveth

[Who Me]

1 hour ago, Sketchy said:

Given the original people who made the claim have backed off it, and are no longer responding or claiming we wanted the one day war nap, I suppose that settles the issue.

Given that you stated that you didn't want to sign the NAP and wanted to keep fighting and I asked you why you did and why you didn't and you and others never answered but just kept deflecting or ignoring the questions, I am old enough to know when to stop beating the dead horse. So no it doesn't settle the issue you just keep avoiding it. You keep telling yourself what ever you need to in order to make yourself feel good about things.

Bye again.

[Sketchy]

52 minutes ago, Who Me said:

Given that you stated that you didn't want to sign the NAP and wanted to keep fighting and I asked you why you did and why you didn't and you and others never answered but just kept deflecting or ignoring the questions, I am old enough to know when to stop beating the dead horse. So no it doesn't settle the issue you just keep avoiding it. You keep telling yourself what ever you need to in order to make yourself feel good about things.

Bye again.

Yeah you weren't the person I was talking about lmfao.

[Vein]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:04 PM, Dr James Wilson said:

🤣 you fricking cowards

Hey! I felt the exact same thing when your allies signed MDP treaty with rose just as they blitzed sail! Were you aware of that and what were your thoughts on it? I hope you had the same reaction then😜

4 hours ago, lancelot1 said:

So essentially you’re upset that “random members” such as myself interject in your discussion between the elite members that you want to talk to? I’m sorry to rain on your high gov parade. Unfortunately, I’m just not as important as you.

You can feel free to keep trying to make me feel bad or stupid or uninformed as much as you’d like, but it doesn’t change the fact that you all made a lame move signing this NAP and your several attempts to blame it on TKR are pathetic and, in many respects, complete fabrications. 

Hey friend, It seems like your main issue is with a NAP overall, might you perhaps be interested to take a look at your alliances history? or is this a "damn, this is not healthy for the game! how dare you guys?!", but then again, you wouldn't be in a position to say such things considering TKR's past actions.

Also before you say anything else, i'm a NAP enjoyer so do not place your values above mine while hiding behind a false pretext of being health-conscious for the game

Edited April 24 by Vein

[Leftbehind]

4 hours ago, lancelot1 said:

So essentially you’re upset that “random members” such as myself interject in your discussion between the elite members that you want to talk to? I’m sorry to rain on your high gov parade. Unfortunately, I’m just not as important as you.

You can feel free to keep trying to make me feel bad or stupid or uninformed as much as you’d like, but it doesn’t change the fact that you all made a lame move signing this NAP and your several attempts to blame it on TKR are pathetic and, in many respects, complete fabrications. 

Your first mistake was thinking anyone is as important as Sketchy. 

[Themonia]

12 minutes ago, Leftbehind said:

Your first mistake was thinking anyone is as important as Sketchy. 

Clearly none of you have met me...

[Leftbehind]

5 minutes ago, Themonia said:

Clearly none of you have met me...

Delusions of grandeur... my kinda person. 

[RagnarBuliwyf]

Going against my better judgement, I've looked through this entire thread and I see a lot of shit throwing. I genuinely want to know as it's getting brought up time and time again each year. 

What past actions are people referring to when they claim tkr bad. I've DM'd several of you privately and had either no response, deflected response or no reply. (All valid). So once again I ask publicly. 

 

 

[Paralaxus]

It sure smells like this NAP ain't gonna hold. 

[Diocletian]

9 hours ago, Kyubnyan said:

Erm didn't VE win like a single war in its entire existence. I'm also confused by this statement.

9 hours ago, Daveth said:

Woah woah, woah. I'll have you know the one true Viridian Entente brought Aurora down to its knees! 

11 hours ago, Sketchy said:

I appreciate the defence but I'm also thoroughly confused as I never fought against VE lmfao.

See I just wanted to bring people together, especially those with the strongest differences. To that end my comment was a moderate success.