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Poll: Baseball Profits Hard Cap


Hard Capping daily profits from baseball.   

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1 hour ago, Emperor Adam said:

I wouldn't say every game, but every 20 or so game?

Anything that could heavily nerf a botter can be used in reality.

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9 minutes ago, Majima Goro said:

Anything that could heavily nerf a botter can be used in reality.

Custom captcha every game designed to be fun while also achieving bot prevention, accuracy and speed the captcha is completely affects your team in the next game?

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10 minutes ago, Eligos said:

Custom captcha every game designed to be fun while also achieving bot prevention, accuracy and speed the captcha is completely affects your team in the next game?

This change will be very hard to implement. It will take a long time to make a custom captcha. I hope there is no new baseball cap. @Eligos

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1 hour ago, Who Me said:

3) Perhaps we could get a dev team that actually plays the game in an active manner instead of just sitting back looking for things to screw up.

If you'd like to have a constructive conversation once you've cooled down. I'll be all ears. 

1 hour ago, Etat said:

@Prefontaine you say it’s not a core mechanic, or at least not intended as a core mechanic, however tell that to the hundreds of folk who use it during war allowing them to play the game to its fullest capacity.  This change could cause instability and power imbalance in the gameplay elsewhere IMO.
 

Also $6mil extra daily being earnt by such a small percentage of players, even if it were bots, is such a piddling amount hardly able to unsettle the broader Orbis economy.  Honestly @Alex I think there are bigger fish to fry.

i don’t support a hard cap at all, though if one is coming anyway, then it should be the highest amount possible.

I understand that TKR uses baseball as a mechanic to circumvent blockades and keeping nuking during a war. This in itself is part of the problem.

The problem with only viewing it on a small scale is embodied by NPOLT and Alpha, of being able to creation nation farms to provide revenue. 

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4 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

If you'd like to have a constructive conversation once you've cooled down. I'll be all ears. 

I am quite cooled down. I am just tired of the dev team focusing on things that don't matter to the majority of the game while not fixing things that affect 100% of the game which is what you should be doing.

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50 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

…I understand that TKR uses baseball as a mechanic to circumvent blockades and keeping nuking during a war. This in itself is part of the problem.

The problem with only viewing it on a small scale is embodied by NPOLT and Alpha, of being able to creation nation farms to provide revenue. 

I’m pretty sure we’re not the only ones.  Anyway given the initial and ongoing  investment required to keep earning an appreciable amount when playing baseball during times of war, I think it reasonable to allow it to continue to be unaffected by blockades.  Given TKR was on the receiving end of the worst of NPOLT, and as a baseball player (amongst many) grateful for it as a source of income at the time, I fail to see how nerfing baseball could be a good thing from this perspective.  Baseball isn’t taxed afaik so how could a farm benefit an alliance by playing it? (a farm being illegal in the first place).

I really think the core of the agenda is the noisy minority who don’t play trying to disadvantage their active opponents who are willing to put the effort in to not be trod on; high city count , high infra pixel huggers if you like!  I think the bot thing has been poorly sold as an argument in your favour given the trifling amounts in question.

i remain a staunch opponent of this measure!  I remain a staunch proponent of measures that target bot users and other rule breakers.

Edited by Etat
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Celer Et Audax

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I have only ever used baseball for nuking or unit buying purposes under blockade, but with the addition of rewarded ads there has been no need to play baseball anymore. I'd honestly just remove baseball entirely, both baseball and rewarded ads are an utter waste of time, but the latter at least does something for the game while also being less prone to botting. If people really wanna waste more time on this kind of activity i'd just compensate the removal of baseball with a cap increase for money that can be earned with ads.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Who Me said:

I am quite cooled down. I am just tired of the dev team focusing on things that don't matter to the majority of the game while not fixing things that affect 100% of the game which is what you should be doing.

If you want to see the impactful stuff, its already on the test server. There are just bugs that are being worked through afaik. Alliance positions, three new projects...what am I missing?

4 hours ago, Eligos said:

Custom captcha every game designed to be fun while also achieving bot prevention, accuracy and speed the captcha is completely affects your team in the next game?

This is called a "minigame", and it would 100% improve the game... but that would require someone coding a minigame. 

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Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link.

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/

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7 hours ago, Majima Goro said:

Why not have a captcha on every baseball game? Not the one we currently use but something where you need to solve a math problem type captcha. If the issue is botting, such a step can help. It would make baseball more time consuming but the fix is there!

I'm fine with that, though I don't know that a "math" captcha is secure enough.

2 hours ago, Dryad said:

I have only ever used baseball for nuking or unit buying purposes under blockade, but with the addition of rewarded ads there has been no need to play baseball anymore. I'd honestly just remove baseball entirely, both baseball and rewarded ads are an utter waste of time, but the latter at least does something for the game while also being less prone to botting. If people really wanna waste more time on this kind of activity i'd just compensate the removal of baseball with a cap increase for money that can be earned with ads.

I agree on this point; I was sympathetic to this argument in the past (it's a tool for losers to recoup) but I agree that with Rewarded Ads, you can still achieve this but without baseball. Plus, if you can find a way to effectively bot rewarded ads, the only person you're defrauding is the ad company, so it's a non-issue.

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12 minutes ago, Alex said:

Plus, if you can find a way to effectively bot rewarded ads, the only person you're defrauding is the ad company, so it's a non-issue.

And for those who are wondering: yes Alex has approved a script to automate rewarded ads, and yes you can freely get it on github as a tampermonkey extension. 

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Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link.

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/

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11 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

I agree it's not a big problem, but it is a problem. If a nation wants to run a muck in the low tiers with high levels of activity and 10M a day in extra, unpreventable revenue to fund raiding this is where the issue would become.

Market interaction is a core concept of the game, nations being active and being able to make sums of money is by design.
Raiding/War profiting is also a core concept of the game.
Baseball is a fringe element of the game. Small nations being able to increase their income to this extent not something that is to be designed.

You wouldn't say that if you were a smaller player constantly being raiding by someone who is also gaining tons of money and ability to rebuy units through baseball. And as for your claim about fixing stuff that's actually broken, this IS something that is actually broken. It's being used in a way that is not intended. This is intended to be a compromise versus the removal of the mechanic.

As to your point about this taking away from other content. This is a simple change that requires minimal effort and won't take away from coming changes. As far no one wanting this change, I can promise you that you are entirely incorrect on that. 

No your wrong. This isn't a problem at all. That amount of revenue is pitiful for amount of time it would require to get it. So it really isn't an issue in the slightest

11 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

 

Maintaining the status quo is not an option currently on the table. 

Actually it is. Maybe you should add that option to the poll and get real results? Though I think you have your answer in the likes/ dislikes lol

Edited by lightside
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25 minutes ago, Alex said:

I'm fine with that, though I don't know that a "math" captcha is secure enough.

I agree on this point; I was sympathetic to this argument in the past (it's a tool for losers to recoup) but I agree that with Rewarded Ads, you can still achieve this but without baseball. Plus, if you can find a way to effectively bot rewarded ads, the only person you're defrauding is the ad company, so it's a non-issue.

 

12 minutes ago, zigbigadorlou said:

And for those who are wondering: yes Alex has approved a script to automate rewarded ads, and yes you can freely get it on github as a tampermonkey extension. 

So what we learn from this is that sheepy is fine with scripts that make him money but hates baseball because it doesn't. What a lovely attitude.

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When I once left politics the only game feature I'd login for was baseball 

I'd literally play it for like 2 to 3 hours relaxing and bored but with peace of mind.

I'm sorry to inform you but when most players big and small are telling you it's not a problem it's largely not 

I have long since found the argument about small nations catching up to larger nations a problematic argument because people don't have a solution for it and the only correct approach is often made by a competent econ person who no one will allow to give them what they want to accomplish said task and a extra 6mil a day achieved by 10% of all baseball players is not a game breaking matter 

 

Its also insulting to some players as ive had a player who would work long security shifts and we'd ping games back and forth out of boredom and chill.

Fact is simple this game is political and again some of you forget it's a game if catching up on cities is a problem there is a variety of ways to do exactly that

 

Now with this said if I want to spend hours of my day tired and spamming baseball falling asleep over my desk why is the fact I'd enjoy doing that to myself being stripped from me like im sorry why not solve the fact people can murder 20 spiez In a single spy op.

Why not fix the fact ships are easily murdered by planes with almost no defense.

How about we add a thing where ships can do a tiny amount of damage to planes.

How about the fact when I want to watch a rewarded ad the ad company refuses to send me an ad so I can't drain my soul away

 

And the most important take from this is Alex said we can scam the ad company to get a overwhelming advantage but I can't spend 5 hours playing a mini game he made inside of his game that I have to wait literally hours for things to happen in.

 

Also yes I intend to spam ads now because Alex literally gave permission and I may as well use a chrome extension 

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3 hours ago, Alex said:

I'm fine with that, though I don't know that a "math" captcha is secure enough.

The idea is to have an easier/faster captcha than the normal pic based one since you'll always get a captcha. There can be a subsystem installed to monitor people who regularly fail to fill them as well. This should help to find botters in theory as well. Abnormally high fails could easily be treated as signs of being a bot/script. 

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Like probably most players, I have never made back the money I have invested in baseball bc I’m bot sitting at my computer/phone for several hours a day. Revenue per game should really be balanced for the away team and the overall revenue for a game could be probably like doubled. You don’t have to make it a cash cow just enough to help people get by. With how brutal being beige cycled can be a decent revenue from rewarded ads and baseball combined keeps the player bc they don’t feel like there’s no point. The amount of people who just give up in gws bc it’s just hopeless is way to high

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Baseball is already extremely inaccessible. The UI for it is quite obtuse and time consuming, and it takes absolutely forever to make any money whatsoever. Baseball is fun but it's also extremely obtuse in a way that makes it inaccessible to many players. 

Baseball is already extremely inaccessible. The UI for it is quite obtuse and time consuming, and it takes absolutely forever to make any money whatsoever. Baseball is fun but it's also extremely obtuse in a way that makes it inaccessible to many players. 

To add onto the UI aspect, hosting a game should not kick you out of the menu. You should stay on the hosting a game and be able to host games as they finish. That would make it 100% better. Same feature for away games. Some rebalancing of costs and benefits would be great as well. I understand that you don't want to make baseball a "must have" for nations to be successful, but as it is now, it's just a pain in the ass to use. 

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16 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Recent changes to baseball profits were meant to reduce the amount of created cash to the game through baseball revenue (not tips). These changes largely worked, however there are a few individuals who earn well above the intended amounts due to brute force. During a week revue last month there were about a dozen instances where players made over 6M a day in revenue from baseball.

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Some of these are the same player(s). Also out of about 1700 data points, these are the only instances of daily incomes from baseball exceeding 6M in that time. All daily revenue from baseball dropped below 1M at around 120, so less than 10% of nations playing baseball are making 1M+ a day and less than 1% are making 6M+ a day. This problem effects a small portion of the player base. 

To offset these reductions to baseball I'd like to view changing some of the upkeep aspects on baseball. What do heavy baseball players see as their biggest expense to keep things going? Do players retire too fast? Upgrading stadiums is too expensive? Give me those suggestions and I can work on implementing them in addition to these hard caps.

So can we have the global rate of return on baseball? You know, the extended playerbase and not just a few outliers.
I would quite like to see how profitable baseball is compared to the money the global playerbase has sunk into it.

Also, can we see the sunk costs of these players? I feel like just going "This guy made an extra 6mil but spent 5+ hours doing it is bad" is a horrible approach." Plus it's also these players that tend to keep baseball running since they allow less active players to quickly do their baseball games instead of having to wait extended periods of time.
 

 

If you guys really find it a problem why not just slap some paid ads all over the baseball page? This way you can line your pockets and advertisers will be happy with those high view rates!

Edited by Zevari
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You forgot the no cap vote option

4 hours ago, Alex said:

I'm fine with that, though I don't know that a "math" captcha is secure enough.

I agree on this point; I was sympathetic to this argument in the past (it's a tool for losers to recoup) but I agree that with Rewarded Ads, you can still achieve this but without baseball. Plus, if you can find a way to effectively bot rewarded ads, the only person you're defrauding is the ad company, so it's a non-issue.

I don't play the game to watch ads...., I play it to watch meaningless pixels

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So can we have the global rate of return on baseball? You know, the extended playerbase and not just a few outliers.
I would quite like to see how profitable baseball is compared to the money the global playerbase has sunk into it.

Also, can we see the sunk costs of these players? I feel like just going "This guy made an extra 6mil but spent 5+ hours doing it is bad" is a horrible approach."

Good luck getting anything out of the dev team that doesn't fit sheepy or pre's narrative

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You don't actually think they will bestir themselves to investigate a couple of people that may be using a bot do you? It's much easier to punish the many for the sins of the few.

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17 hours ago, Zevari said:

Baseball is one of the few options in the game that allows you to play to win. I know most modern developers view this concept as alien but it's a very important part of games, especially for those that are free to play. The more you reward people for actively playing, the more they are willing to stay playing. This in turn gives you more time to convert them into real customers.

But natsims are by design incredibly slow growth made to be played over months and years. And the nerf that is being proposed only hurts those that are so sucked in that they can do hundreds of "click, wait for beep, click". Like hours of that. 

On 3/9/2022 at 8:15 PM, Who Me said:

So what we learn from this is that sheepy is fine with scripts that make him money but hates baseball because it doesn't. What a lovely attitude.

 I mean, he's got to pay the bills. Its like credits; sheepy gets money and gives a small sum. I bet sheepy would bypass the watching part if that was an option. 

22 hours ago, Velekk Hemlock said:

To add onto the UI aspect, hosting a game should not kick you out of the menu. You should stay on the hosting a game and be able to host games as they finish. That would make it 100% better. Same feature for away games. Some rebalancing of costs and benefits would be great as well. I understand that you don't want to make baseball a "must have" for nations to be successful, but as it is now, it's just a pain in the ass to use. 

There's a pretty good browser extension for that on github. 

12 hours ago, Velekk Hemlock said:

The solution to me is very obviously to make the feature more accessible so more players can be involved with it, rather than trying to curve an income inequality (which reminder: there is already a giant income equality between old and new players). The solution is to let newer players make more money from it, rather than to stop older players making as much. 

I think a lot of the young whipper snappers are a bit overkill on the income inequality considering how many people can get to city 30 in under a year while it took most of us 4-5 years to get to that point. I agree that making it more impactful could be good. 

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Hey Krampus, the signature edit is under account settings. Actually, here's the link.

https://forum.politicsandwar.com/index.php?/settings/signature/

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