The "Retarded" Thread

[Fizban]

There has been much ado about the use of the word "retard" on these forums in recent weeks. Some players have reported others for its use, and moderation staff issued warns against players for using it in jest against others. These moderator actions were met with reactions of anger and distress from posters upset at being censored for what they considered a legitimate figure of speech that serves to best express their position.

 

These objections were not unreasonable. Freedom of expression is a cornerstone of any free society, and Sheepy has wisely determined that the use of the term "retard," when not being used in a malicious manner, will not subject posters to warns. This thread is not about that policy. This thread is about the use of the term "retard," and whether it should continue to be used, even though it is permitted.

 

I begin with two statements that I believe cannot be disputed. First, the term "retard" is never used to express praise or satisfaction. Second, notwithstanding its purely negative connotation, posters should not be punished by moderation staff for use of the word "retard."

 

Even though it never has a positive connotation, and never has an appropriate negative connotation that cannot be expressed with an alternative word, the term continues to be used, and continues to be deemed acceptable.

 

John Franklin Stephens eloquently describes how the word is harmful, even when it is not directed at a person with intellectual disabilities. The Military Special Needs Network has provided a useful flow chart for determining when it is OK to use the word "retard."

 

I won't issue any further warns for the use of the term, but I think it would be helpful to have an open discussion about the issue.

 

So tell me, community:

 

Do you use the term "retard" in your everyday conversations?

If you do, why?

If you don't, why not?

[Odin]

Yes I do.

It's normal in German, to use it if you speak about current shitty circumstances.

Schon wieder kein Geld auf dem Konto? Voll behindert  / Again no money on the bankaccount? Totally retared.

 

If you say it to a person it must be in a funny connection

If you say retarded to someone who really is physically disabled, that's not even bad, it's just kind of redundant.

 

Only situation where you never should use it is to mental retarded or to people with just another opinion then yours.

That's a sign of failed education.

[Reagan]

I'm not sure that an open discussion which calls attention to the use of the word "retard" is a can of worms that should've been opened or not, but my personal thoughts are that it does depend on the context in which the word is being used.  If used in obvious jest, no problem.  If it's perceived as being a hateful or derogatory comment designed to insult someone, I would say it's a problem.  The fine line is determining how it's perceived.  One may not see a particular instance of use as detrimental, while another takes offense.  Perception is reality.  Personally, I'd handle it on a case by case basis and stick to the rules, which clearly state:

 

Flaming, Baiting, Trolling, Racism, and Name Calling

• Flaming - posts targeted at a player in an effort to anger, hurt, insult, harass, or provoke.
• Baiting – coercing a player into breaking the rules.
• Trolling - deliberately provocative posting with the aim of inciting an angry response.
• Name Calling - abusive or insulting language referring to a person or group. *Prohibited everywhere except role play forums, and only in role play forums where it is being used within reason with no intent to flame, bait, troll, insult, or hurt.

[SAI-40]

Here in real life, I grew up around the physically and mentally disabled. I've got two uncles with serious brain-damage, and a brother born with serious physical defects that have since impacted his mental state. Being around these people so much, especially during gatherings and events in support of my brother, you sort of get an idea why it's so frowned upon. Retarded is an appropriate term for their conditions, they fit the definition, but the way that it's been used in everyday language has turned it into something really negative for them. It gets to the point where being called it, even without malice, wears down their self-esteem.

 

That said, I'm not totally against it. I don't think it should be censored, and I don't think it's always bad -- but I think that in using it people need to remember how the way they use words can affect the world around them. Retarded used to be something okay, but by turning it into an insult, even if you've never directed it at people who are actually mentally disabled, it's become a personal insult to them.

[ooohu]

I don't mind it or any other "insults" to be used. Because it doesn't offend me nor would anything else said over a forum. Frankly the words of players that I'll never met thousands of miles away has absolutely no bearing on how i'll feel. Not to mention in a game where politics and fighting can become vitriolic it's entertaining to see people talking shit to one another and so in a way I'd actually hate for it to be "outlawed."

 

If someone want's to play a game or participate in a world where "swear words" and harmful statements are shunned; I'd suggest Club Penguin as a viable alternative ya giant babies!

 

That's my two cents at least.

[Shellhound]

I use the term retard a lot, I actually use quite a bit of what some people would say are derogatory terms. Do I use them because I dislike those people or feel hateful towards them? Of course not. I believe that we're reaching a point where these words are evolving into something else. We're on the verge of words like !@#$got and retard being general insults used against people for various reasons, not necessarily targeted against a specific group of people (although some still use it that way and they're jackasses and bigots). If I say that someone's acting like a little !@#$, does that mean I hate women? No, most people wouldn't take it that way I don't think. I simply don't believe words like retard should be taken in that manner either.

[Reagan]

A community is a diverse group of players. Out of respect for everyone, there has to be limits in place to maintain an environment that the majority of people will want to be a part of. Some have thicker skin while others take things very personal. Debate and some trash talking make things interesting and fun, but there has to be limits. That's where context and perception come into play. See my post above. Every public gaming forum I've been a part of has almost identical rules in place for this very reason. You also have to remember that this forum is open to players as young as 13. The mod staff has a responsibility to maintain a "PG-13" rating, if you will.

[Fizban]

I'd like to reiterate that the purpose of this thread is not to discuss whether the use of this term should be prohibited or regulated.

 

I think it would be helpful if we made sure the discussion actually addresses the issue that was asked in the OP.

 

Why do you use the term "retard," when there are other terms that convey the same meaning without the baggage?

 

Alternatively, why do you not use the term "retard," even though it is clearly making its way into the general consciousness as an insult devoid of the baggage associated with the term?

 

"It's normal" is not a useful explanation. What I'm trying to spark here is some meaningful analysis. Take some time to think about why you use the word (or don't use the word). Then, if possible, try to explain it to the community.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

I intentionally avoid it, even though it is common in English too, because it's a slur, and if you think mentally chllenged people don't understand it you are most definently wrong. That's just my take though.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

I'd like to reiterate that the purpose of this thread is not to discuss whether the use of this term should be prohibited or regulated.

 

I think it would be helpful if we made sure the discussion actually addresses the issue that was asked in the OP.

 

Why do you use the term "retard," when there are other terms that convey the same meaning without the baggage?

 

Alternatively, why do you not use the term "retard," even though it is clearly making its way into the general consciousness as an insult devoid of the baggage associated with the term?

 

"It's normal" is not a useful explanation. What I'm trying to spark here is some meaningful analysis. Take some time to think about why you use the word (or don't use the word). Then, if possible, try to explain it to the community.

 

"Alternatively, why do you not use the term "retard," even though it is clearly making its way into the general consciousness as an insult devoid of the baggage associated with the term?"

 

Because there are other words, and because it's still offensive. If the "n" word became more commonplace tomorrow, would people start using it?

[Fox Fire]

What? LOL!

Ladies ang gentilones, this is the internet....

 

Actually, what I think about this overall community over time can be sumed up in my signature....

 

This is a "retarded" thread indeed.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Fox Fire

[SAI-40]

What? LOL!

Ladies ang gentilones, this is the internet....

 

Actually, what I think about this overall community over time can be sumed up in my signature....

 

What does this have to do with anything?

[Fox Fire]

What does this have to do with anything?

Everything, pretty much.

 

This community is so amazingly aggressive and yet so sensitive. lol.

I mean, the whole Nordreich thing was just rediculous, and every now ant then we get something simmaler like this.

Its so stupid. This is the internet. If youre that sensitive, you should probably put your tin foil hat back on, stop going outside and remember that the vast majority of the internet is probably offensive in some shape or form, thus you should get your parents permission to log onto www.politicsandwar.com if you would like to play.

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

 

This has been a public service announcememnt courtesy of Foxburo.

 

[Shellhound]

"Alternatively, why do you not use the term "retard," even though it is clearly making its way into the general consciousness as an insult devoid of the baggage associated with the term?"

 

Because there are other words, and because it's still offensive. If the "n" word became more commonplace tomorrow, would people start using it?

It's become quite common for people to call each other !@#$ for many different purposes, I'd say it's quite common place in the media (predominately rap music) and among people.

[Alex]

I'm not sure that an open discussion which calls attention to the use of the word "retard" is a can of worms that should've been opened or not, but my personal thoughts are that it does depend on the context in which the word is being used.  If used in obvious jest, no problem.  If it's perceived as being a hateful or derogatory comment designed to insult someone, I would say it's a problem.  The fine line is determining how it's perceived.  One may not see a particular instance of use as detrimental, while another takes offense.  Perception is reality.  Personally, I'd handle it on a case by case basis and stick to the rules, which clearly state:

 

As Fizban clarified, this isn't a debate on the rules. The rules are established.

 

However, I did let Fizban know that this might be a more appropriate way to try and discourage the use of the word. Rather than issuing warning points, which aren't justified, by simply raising awareness and making us think a little bit more about what we're actually saying or typing we might be more sensitive to others we're not intending to offend or hurt.

 

I often use the term retarded myself, and not because I intend to hurt someone who is mentally disabled, but because it's the kind of language I heard when I was growing up. It's the same language I hear on a day-to-day basis; I think that it has become so commonplace that I've desensitized myself to the word. By bringing this to my attention, and others' attention, it may just make you think twice and help encourage a more positive behavior.

[Hereno]

However, I did let Fizban know that this might be a more appropriate way to try and discourage the use of the word. Rather than issuing warning points, which aren't justified

lol

 

i've gotten warned for a lot less than using mental retardation as a slur

 

in fact i wouldn't be surprised if you found an excuse to warn me for this post

[Reagan]

I love the rationalization of "this is the internet" as though that should be some excuse for no holds barred and no requirements for decency or respect for others on the internet.

 

This thread being created is "retarded" if that's how you guys want to play it. There isn't an overuse of the word here anymore than any other word. Why don't we just start a discussion thread on every word that can be deemed offensive and get people focusing on those words so that they may encourage positive behavior.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Reagan

[Grillick]

Everything, pretty much.

 

This community is so amazingly aggressive and yet so sensitive. lol.

I mean, the whole Nordreich thing was just rediculous, and every now ant then we get something simmaler like this.

Its so stupid. This is the internet. If youre that sensitive, you should probably put your tin foil hat back on, stop going outside and remember that the vast majority of the internet is probably offensive in some shape or form, thus you should get your parents permission to log onto www.politicsandwar.com if you would like to play.

 

Thank you, and have a nice day.

This type of argument says a lot more about the person making it than it does about the internet. The fact that the internet is full of trolls and obnoxious idiots does not mean that it is unacceptable for people to try to make it better: quite the opposite.

 

The problem with accepting this type of behavior because "this is the internet" is that it implies that the internet is a homogenous thing that is only suitable for one type of person. The goal of all societies should be to be more inclusive and make people feel welcome. Even if the conscious goal of using this type of language isn't to make people feel unwelcome, that is still the result.

 

This isn't about something being offensive. This is about language that is designed to treat some group of people as something less than a full person. It's not hard to avoid using this word, or other words like it. Using them just for "shock value" is practically malicious, and using them for any other purpose is simply lazy.

[Fox Fire]

This type of argument says a lot more about the person making it than it does about the internet. The fact that the internet is full of trolls and obnoxious idiots does not mean that it is unacceptable for people to try to make it better: quite the opposite.

 

The problem with accepting this type of behavior. This is about language that is designed to treat some group of people as something less than a full person. It's not hard to avoid using this word, or other words like it. Using them just for "shock value" is practically malicious, and using them for any other purpose is simply lazy.

Except that if the word retard were banned, just like Nazism, this would be the first game like this Ive heard of to do so. Even in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), its perfectly acceptable to use the term and even use it as an insult in some debates.

Further more, using the term "retard" has become so common place in america that it has become a mostly harmless jab at anyone displaying a lack or intelect or perseption.

 

The problem this community seems to have is that issues like this are brought up specifically because of trolling. People pretending to be offended by something that doesnt offend them, just to create a bunch of drama, make the staff do rediculous shit, and be entertained the whole way through.

 

Heres how we solve this problem:

The staff simply needs to be compitent enough to realize when something is just a heated debate, and when something is considerably offensive. None of this even needs discussed, we just need staff memebers who can be reasonable.

Take the last warn I got in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) for example:

 

You have been given a verbal warning for your general posting conduct and language.

 

Please refrain from immedeatly lashing out when you get to a disagreement, the Boiler Room is a forum for debate and not to belittle anyone who happens to disagree with you.

 

The most recent example being this.

 

Well I'm glad your not my professor because that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Yes, the Nazis DID create jets and are considered the fathers of modern rocket science. They didn't weaken any science. They were the single most advanced nation of their time. How the $%&@ can you think Germany would have been more advanced without the Nazis? Before the Nazis they were all living on government rations and riding horses while the rest of the world was driving cars.

You're the worst history professor I've ever heard of.

Germany never reached the Atom bomb because Hitler cut funding for its research towards the end of the war. He didn't think it would be that great.

The ME262 came out late because of engine problems, which is expected considering it's literally the first of its kind.

Without the Nazis, Germany would have.been the same exact !@#$ hole it was after WWI and probably still would be today.

 

Did you get your degree from a cereal box or something?

 

(I know this isnt (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), but its just an example of compitent moderation vs offensive material).

 

Normally, if this was a response to Hereno, or Commander Thrawn, I wouldnt have been warned, because the staff knows that we both frequent the BR and always have heated debates which frequently involve insults about inteligence and other minor jabs about perceptivness.

"Unbiased Mod" had this to say about it:

 

I know I let alot slide in regards to the "regular" members posting towards eachother, but this doesn't mean I allow this kind of behaviour towards every member who posts here.

 

Play nice and act with restraint, it isn't cause there is a disagreement that mud needs to be flung around.

 

I cant even count how often I might use the term "retard" to describe certain people dislaying a lack of inteligence. And its not even out of dislaike or hate. IE: I called my sister a retard today and I love my sister.

 

This isnt something that needs discussed. This whole issue is a very "common sense" sorta thing.

[SAI-40]

Except that if the word retard were banned, just like Nazism, this would be the first game like this Ive heard of to do so. Even in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), its perfectly acceptable to use the term and even use it as an insult in some debates.

Further more, using the term "retard" has become so common place in america that it has become a mostly harmless jab at anyone displaying a lack or intelect or perseption.

 

The problem this community seems to have is that issues like this are brought up specifically because of trolling. People pretending to be offended by something that doesnt offend them, just to create a bunch of drama, make the staff do rediculous !@#$, and be entertained the whole way through.

 

Heres how we solve this problem:

The staff simply needs to be compitent enough to realize when something is just a heated debate, and when something is considerably offensive. None of this even needs discussed, we just need staff memebers who can be reasonable.

Take the last warn I got in (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) for example:

 

(I know this isnt (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), but its just an example of compitent moderation vs offensive material).

 

Normally, if this was a response to Hereno, or Commander Thrawn, I wouldnt have been warned, because the staff knows that we both frequent the BR and always have heated debates which frequently involve insults about inteligence and other minor jabs about perceptivness.

"Unbiased Mod" had this to say about it:

 

 

I cant even count how often I might use the term "retard" to describe certain people dislaying a lack of inteligence. And its not even out of dislaike or hate. IE: I called my sister a retard today and I love my sister.

 

This isnt something that needs discussed. This whole issue is a very "common sense" sorta thing.

 

First, this isn't a debate about censoring it on this site, just as Fizban and Sheepy have stated. It's not getting censored, no need to get up in arms about that.

 

But it's not harmless. You might think it's harmless, but that's just because you haven't seen the consequences of using the word--or maybe you just don't care, I don't know. I've never been one for Political Correctness (I find the concept worthless. Not using words or terms because the world doesn't want you to, as opposed to just not using them because you're a decent human being is pointless in my eyes), but the term "Retard" was once an acceptable thing, with very little negative connotation. It was simply a descriptor for people who were disadvantaged in one way or another, a word that aptly described their conditions. It isn't anymore, because people began using it as an insult. It forced them to find new terms to describe the Mentally disabled, so they could be described without insulting them. Then, if people start calling each other "Mentally Challenged", "Mentally Handicapped", or other terms as an insult instead of a descriptor, it forces a new term to come around and turns the previous one into an insult.

 

Maybe I'm shit at putting down my thoughts, so let me break it down exactly: People need to be aware how powerful the usage of a word can influence the world around them. Changing the context of a word can have serious negative implications, and eventually forces the sense of "Political Correctness" they hate so much. If you want the world to be less sensitive and offended, stop being a dick and try being a decent person.

[Fox Fire]

First, this isn't a debate about censoring it on this site, just as Fizban and Sheepy have stated. It's not getting censored, no need to get up in arms about that.

 

But it's not harmless. You might think it's harmless, but that's just because you haven't seen the consequences of using the word--or maybe you just don't care, I don't know. I've never been one for Political Correctness (I find the concept worthless. Not using words or terms because the world doesn't want you to, as opposed to just not using them because you're a decent human being is pointless in my eyes), but the term "Retard" was once an acceptable thing, with very little negative connotation. It was simply a descriptor for people who were disadvantaged in one way or another, a word that aptly described their conditions. It isn't anymore, because people began using it as an insult. It forced them to find new terms to describe the Mentally disabled, so they could be described without insulting them. Then, if people start calling each other "Mentally Challenged", "Mentally Handicapped", or other terms as an insult instead of a descriptor, it forces a new term to come around and turns the previous one into an insult.

 

Maybe I'm !@#$ at putting down my thoughts, so let me break it down exactly: People need to be aware how powerful the usage of a word can influence the world around them. Changing the context of a word can have serious negative implications, and eventually forces the sense of "Political Correctness" they hate so much. If you want the world to be less sensitive and offended, stop being a !@#$ and try being a decent person.

!@#$, I accidentally clicked "like."

 

Well, we might as well make an offense out of every other word, including but not limeted to:

stupid, asshat, !@#$, idiot, moron, rape, girl, vagina, penis, tard, cracker, twinkie, balls, one eyed wonder weasle, geezer, fat, lardo, lazy, terrorist, terrorizer, racist, hater, communist, capitalist, etc.

All of these among many, many more can easily be taken offensivley. You alone, have "I do cocaine" in your signature, which I find extremely offensive.

So where does it end? Where exactly do we draw the line?

[Fox Fire]

Also, I think its worth adding that Im a perfectly decent human and believe in the use of any and all words imaginable. I use the F word alot. I use "retard" just as much. To me, logically speaking, words are words, just like any word. The entire meaning of a word is not set in stone. It can easly change with time and culture.

I suggest you all get used to that, because its a fact.

 

In japanese, the word "ho" means fire. In Englih, we use it to refer to skanky girls. Oh, Im sorry. Did the word "ho" offend you?

 

Im almost 100% sure that even Google chrome doesnt include a suit of armor. Welcome to the internet.

[WISD0MTREE]

If youre that sensitive, you should probably put your tin foil hat back on, 

Paranoia isn't the same as being offended easily. 

 

EDIT: And please don't double post. My OCD is frustrating me enough from having to look at a crooked picture for a long time. 

Edited November 1, 2014 by WISD0MTREE

[Fox Fire]

Paranoia isn't the same as being offended easily. 

 

EDIT: And please don't double post. My OCD is frustrating me enough from having to look at a crooked picture for a long time. 

I double post often. If that equally offends you, I suggest you stop using the internet.

Holy !@#$, this community is irritatingly trollish. PN and PT were bad, but this place is BAD

[SoS]

Agree that most of the trolling is from the disingenuously "offended" people.

 

All the same, if you're smart enough to criticize someone's intellect - find a more intelligent way to do it. I've seen plenty of intelligent put downs here.