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Game Development Thread - July


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16 minutes ago, Suyash Adhikari said:

Imo, you shouldn't be able to opt out against Alliance Embargoes unless the Alliance allows you, just like how you cant opt out of being taxed in a command economy unless your alliance allows you, or cant opt out of fighting in a war (even if you do, you will be attacked)

Kick them if you don't want them to unembargo people. Unless you are a tax-farm, it shouldn't matter you kicking people.

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5 minutes ago, Majima Goro said:

Kick them if you don't want them to unembargo people. Unless you are a tax-farm, it shouldn't matter you kicking people.

Right conclusion, wrong reasoning.  If having our alliance members follow our trade bloc color or listen to our embargos, etc. is tax farming, then literally every alliance in Orbis is a tax farm.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 9:29 AM, Prefontaine said:

Military Combat changes:

  • Ships kill 15% more ships in naval combat
  • When performing bombing runs damage dealt to defending planes reduced by 15%
    • These are only for bombing runs, not dogfights. Dogfight damage remains the same. 

Feedback has been ships don't kill other ships enough and bombing runs kill too many defending planes in addition to the other units/infra they kill. These tweaks are meant to address those issues. 

I have already explained the issue with nerfing "bombing runs" in another thread and that criticism remains the same. I'm also curious where this feedback has come from because I've legitimately not heard such complaints before, in fact, I have heard the opposite that bombing units is detrimental until you have a clear plane advantage. This only makes that worse.

On 7/7/2021 at 9:33 AM, Prefontaine said:

Spy System Changes:

  • Reserve/Active Duty system
    • Only Active Duty spies may defend spy attacks and perform spy attacks.
    • All new spies purchased default to Reserve Status, not active.
    • Spies in Reserve Status cannot be killed.
    • A player may not move spies from Active Duty to Reserve Status.
    • Spies in Reserve Status cost 50% less upkeep.

I like the idea, I agree with others however, that there needs to be a cap (maybe 80%) on the max spies before you get locked out of reserving any more spies. This is to prevent the spy war from becoming a guaranteed flip flop of who controls it, because under this system (in its current form) the losing side will simply rebuild, coordinate reactivation at the same DC, and spy wipe the other side, taking control until the enemy rebuilds their own reserve spies and repeats the process over again. This would effectively take the skill out of winning the spy war, instead making it into a constant tug of war which would make war less fun, in a [war] system that is already unattractive.

On 7/7/2021 at 9:34 AM, Prefontaine said:

New Project:

  • Government Oversight Agency
    • Improves Domestic Policy Effect by 50% (5% -> 7.5%) (1% -> 1.5% for open markets)
      • Cost: $20,000,000
        Food: 200,000
        Aluminum: 10,000
  • Resource Production Center
    • Every turn the nation gets 1 raw resource for each raw resource they can mine (except food) for each city they have up to 5 cities. (60 resources times 3 resource types is a 180 resources total per day)
      • Cost: $500,000
        Food: 1,000

This first project (because of its cost) is targeted towards whales and I really don't think that's what the game needs right now. The mid and low tier need more projects (and more project slots) so this project should have its price lowered or be scrapped altogether. Before the "specialization" argument peeks through the door, this project is a simple discount, it does not help specialize in anything so it should definitely be more accessible to all.

I fully agree with Ramona on the second project, see their post if you haven't.

On 7/7/2021 at 9:35 AM, Prefontaine said:

Treasure Lottery:

  • 50% of the Treasures in the game are marked as "Lottery Treasures".
  • A nation can buy a treasure lottery ticket with 1 credit.
    • A player may only have 5 lottery tickets at a given time.
    • Lottery Tickets roll over to the next cycle if not winners.
  • A player may only win 1 Treasure per cycle.
  • If there are more treasures than lottery ticket holds the treasure is dispersed at random to the whole game population.

Awful. This kind of change really just benefits the mass-member, veteran alliances because half of everyone else's treasures are going to be stripped away from them and fought over by the titans because they can afford to pump credits into their dedicated and large member base that a lot of the smaller alliances don't have, all the while they now have an even less chance of getting their own treasures because these "lottery" treasures were pulled from their own pool.

Further, why do we need more ways to spend credits exactly? It seems to me that people buy enough as is, until recently credit prices were hardly pushing above 1m their actual value because the supply was so large. Instead of trying to put already-established mechanics behind a paywall, Alex and his team should be creating new (cosmetic) things to spend them on because this is unnecessary, and an unwelcome money grab. Just no.

Edited by Aiya
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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 4:27 PM, BrythonLexi said:

If its an alliance embargo, I don't see why individual nations should be able to break it.  Embargoes are already basically useless - alliance embargoes could fix that, but nations opting out brings us back to square one of uselessness

Because after all, they are "nations" not "governors submissive to the great state". I think giving players some agency is completly fine. 

1 hour ago, Suyash Adhikari said:

Imo, you shouldn't be able to opt out against Alliance Embargoes unless the Alliance allows you, just like how you cant opt out of being taxed in a command economy unless your alliance allows you, or cant opt out of fighting in a war (even if you do, you will be attacked)

You can opt out of being taxed (being on gray). If you opt out of a war you are useless to your alliance. Both would be opting out as far as im concerned.

15 hours ago, Callisto said:

Resource Production Center- Again, I feel that this is a good project, but something must be considered before implementing it. Based on everything you have written about this project, it seems as though it is meant to bolster the economy of smaller nations. However, after doing some calculations myself, it is almost certain that it would be worthwhile for any nation that could spare the slot to buy this project, and I think that would be the potential downfall of this project. It is intended to bolster the economies of smaller nations, however it is the case that if everyone buys this project, suddenly, there could become *too many* raws in circulation, and the price of raws could diminish to a point where smaller nations actually see their income hurt because of large scale economics. Perhaps this project should only work for smaller nations, and become ineffective once a nation reaches 20 cities? (In my opinion, you should also get the project slot back once hitting 20 cities if this was to occur) This concern of mine could be overblown, however I think it is something worth considering, and I don't think it would really hurt the game if large nations didn't have access to this project. 

I think a project like this is important. If it is truly this strong however it does remove the point, and nerfing it a bit more seems like a correct way to go there. I wouldn't "delete" it, just make it not good enough to care or make a big diffrence for big nations.

I hadn't taken this into account untill i read your comment.

Edited by BelgiumFury
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2 hours ago, BrythonLexi said:

Right conclusion, wrong reasoning.  If having our alliance members follow our trade bloc color or listen to our embargos, etc. is tax farming, then literally every alliance in Orbis is a tax farm.

Every alliance is a tax farm

Taxation is theft.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 3:34 PM, Prefontaine said:

New Project:

  • Government Oversight Agency
    • Improves Domestic Policy Effect by 50% (5% -> 7.5%) (1% -> 1.5% for open markets)
      • Cost: $20,000,000
        Food: 200,000
        Aluminum: 10,000

Why you gotta make projects that help whales to whale harder? Why Pre? Why you do that?

Quote
  • Resource Production Center
    • Every turn the nation gets 1 raw resource for each raw resource they can mine (except food) for each city they have up to 5 cities. (60 resources times 3 resource types is a 180 resources total per day)
      • Cost: $500,000
        Food: 1,000

 

 

WAIT! 180 resources per day at 3200 ppu = 576000

It pays for itself in 1 day...

Anyone and their mother with a spare project slot is gonna grab this up, so if the point is to help out the tinies, then I think you're missing the mark. I'd suggest changing it to use a formula where it gives less the more cities you've got. Something like:

- You get 3 of each raw divided by the number of cities you've got minus 2.

So with there being 6 raws a city 1-3 gets 3*12*6 = 216 resources per day, which is more than your current, but after that the number starts dropping relatively quickly and once you start getting up higher in the cities it becomes virtually worthless.

I feel this would accomplish the intend better than the current suggestion.

 

EDIT: After discussing it with some people, the "divided by the number of cities you've got minus 2" is probably too aggressive a reduction. Perhaps something along the lines of "The amount of extra resources you get is halved for every 5 cities you have, i.e.:

1-4 cities: 216
5-9 cities: 108
10-15 cities: 54
...

That would make it useful for longer, but still useless for developed nations.

Edited by Zoot
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1 hour ago, Zoot said:

WAIT! 180 resources per day at 3200 ppu = 576000

It pays for itself in 1 day...

Anyone and their mother with a spare project slot is gonna grab this up, so if the point is to help out the tinies, then I think you're missing the mark. I'd suggest changing it to use a formula where it gives less the more cities you've got. Something like:

- You get 3 of each raw divided by the number of cities you've got minus 2.

So with there being 6 raws a city 1-3 gets 3*12*6 = 216 resources per day, which is more than your current, but after that the number starts dropping relatively quickly and once you start getting up higher in the cities it becomes virtually worthless.

I feel this would accomplish the intend better than the current suggestion.

 

EDIT: After discussing it with some people, the "divided by the number of cities you've got minus 2" is probably too aggressive a reduction. Perhaps something along the lines of "The amount of extra resources you get is halved for every 5 cities you have, i.e.:

1-4 cities: 216
5-9 cities: 108
10-15 cities: 54
...

That would make it useful for longer, but still useless for developed nations.

I'd rather it just turn off at some point rather than degrade, honestly. 

Also, I'd like to be clear about something, just because a change helps large nations doesn't mean its a bad change. You have to look at things in terms of scaling. Looking at a small nation who lets say brings in 4M in cash/resources a day, this boosts it about 500k making a 12.5% improvement on their income. Taking a whale nation who makes 70M a day in cash/resources that's less than a 1% boost. The smaller nation can do far more meaningful impactful things with that money. It's cheap so they can afford it very easily and get rid of it quickly if they grow out of it. 

Always keep your foes confused. If they are never sure who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next.
Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

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It's like I'm reading a book and it's a book I deeply love. I'm reading it slowly now so the words are really far apart and the spaces between the words are almost infinite. I can still feel the words of the story, but it's in this endless space between the words I find myself now It's a place that's not of the physical. It's where everything else is. This is where I am now, and who I am.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2021 at 6:35 AM, Prefontaine said:

Treasure Lottery:

  • 50% of the Treasures in the game are marked as "Lottery Treasures".
  • A nation can buy a treasure lottery ticket with 1 credit.
    • A player may only have 5 lottery tickets at a given time.
    • Lottery Tickets roll over to the next cycle if not winners.
  • A player may only win 1 Treasure per cycle.
  • If there are more treasures than lottery ticket holds the treasure is dispersed at random to the whole game population.

 

Please upvote or downvote if you like/dislike these changes

 

Credits are what keep this game running. This is a method to increase credit usage without dramatically impacting the game as treasures are already random and measures are in place from rich alliances gaining too much from accumulating treasures.

First, please proof read before you post as the highlighted sections make no sense.

Also, are you saying you are going to" fix" the lottery to keep rich alliances from winning too many treasures?

This is a terrible idea all the way around.

 

Edited by Who Me
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2 hours ago, Who Me said:

First, please proof read before you post as the highlighted sections make no sense.

Also, are you saying you are going to" fix" the lottery to keep rich alliances from winning too many treasures?

This is a terrible idea all the way around.

 

I think what he is referring to is the formula for the treasure bonus gives diminishing returns for each additional treasure.

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15 hours ago, Prefontaine said:

Lets do some Bombardment math. Lets take someone with 15 cities and 2k infra before the pirating began so they had 40 improvements in each city at the start giving a total of 600 improvements in their nation. 

Lets look at the extreme case of a war exclusively going for bombardments. You can launch 8 naval attacks in the war, 7 can be bombardment after the blockade. This war will kill 14 improvements, lets say you got lucky on the blockade and got an improvement there as well bringing it up to 15. 

Now looking at our pirate nation, lets say their running full military improvements and a back up nuke power plant which gives us a nice round 20 improvements locked up there, so half of their improvements cannot be killed by bombardment (minus that first lucky naval hit). Giving us 300 improvements that can be killed.

That's 22 full wars devoted exclusively to bombardments, over 7 rounds of defensive slotting before resource/commerce improvements have been removed. Mind you these attacks also need to be performed with 75% of the max ships, so the nation performing them is using lots of ammo (gas is reduced on bombardments) and expending a lot of cost in keeping that many ships. 

So in the most extreme case which all of your defensive slots are filled with bombardment exclusive attackers who get lucky on the first naval hit and kill another resource production/commerce it's going to be a while before all those are gone. 

 

Honestly I think bombardments as proposed are too weak, especially in the upper tiers.  Even if takes 50% less gas/muni, launching a naval attack at 75% of my at 35 cities at current market prices for gas/muni costs about 2.7 mill.  If each improvement slot is worth about 10-20k a day, two improvements is 20-40k lost income for a a day.  Even if you take off 300k for value of the improvements (generous), that's 60-120 days for the attack to cost the target more than it what it cost me to attack.

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Would the lottery treasures be new treasures or taken from the current pool of treasures? The lottery sounds fun to me.

Honestly I think admin should just go back to allowing treasures to be traded via in-game wars as long as the nation with the defending slot isn't in a separate alliance war. The infra lost from being beiged is a good balance to have to make the trade really worth it.

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Posted (edited)

I honestly can't believe that spies are still allowed to kill such a large amount of tanks WITH 1 SPY AT 50% ODDS (a bit less if the defender has covert, but this is nullified by arcane), and that underdog mechanics are still so disgustingly OP. Are these not considered problems, or might they be addressed later?

Edited by EliteCanada
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6 hours ago, Azaghul said:

Would the lottery treasures be new treasures or taken from the current pool of treasures? The lottery sounds fun to me.

Honestly I think admin should just go back to allowing treasures to be traded via in-game wars as long as the nation with the defending slot isn't in a separate alliance war. The infra lost from being beiged is a good balance to have to make the trade really worth it.

The treasure trading system is being coded currently from what I've been told. There will be an option to do direct buy/sell with limitations.

Always keep your foes confused. If they are never sure who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next.
Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you.

scSqPGJ.gif

It's like I'm reading a book and it's a book I deeply love. I'm reading it slowly now so the words are really far apart and the spaces between the words are almost infinite. I can still feel the words of the story, but it's in this endless space between the words I find myself now It's a place that's not of the physical. It's where everything else is. This is where I am now, and who I am.

 

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16 hours ago, EliteCanada said:

I honestly can't believe that spies are still allowed to kill such a large amount of tanks WITH 1 SPY AT 50% ODDS (a bit less if the defender has covert, but this is nullified by arcane), and that underdog mechanics are still so disgustingly OP. Are these not considered problems, or might they be addressed later?

"Why can't I dogpile my opponents without taking damages the entire war this is so unfair *sobs*"

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38 minutes ago, Pascal said:

"Why can't I dogpile my opponents without taking damages the entire war this is so unfair *sobs*"

Yea, you're right, logically speaking it makes sense that 1500-1600 planes will always shit on 2250 planes, every single time. It also makes sense for one spy to kill 4k tanks. There's truly no middle ground or any room for improvement there.

Edited by EliteCanada
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1 hour ago, EliteCanada said:

Yea, you're right, logically speaking it makes sense that 1500-1600 planes will always shit on 2250 planes, every single time. It also makes sense for one spy to kill 4k tanks. There's truly no middle ground or any room for improvement there.

1 spy and 60 spy both can kill the same number of tanks I think. More spies just make it harder to detect and the operation is more likely to succeed. The kill rate is determined by how many tanks you have. If you have 10k tanks, you'll lose like 1k whether I use 1 spy or 60 spies

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2 hours ago, Majima Goro said:

1 spy and 60 spy both can kill the same number of tanks I think. More spies just make it harder to detect and the operation is more likely to succeed. The kill rate is determined by how many tanks you have. If you have 10k tanks, you'll lose like 1k whether I use 1 spy or 60 spies

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:22 AM, Prefontaine said:

When performing bombing runs damage dealt to defending planes reduced by 15%

This struck me as weird since you basically should already wait till the enemy is 30% or less planes than you with the current formula to not take a bunch of plane damage on bombing runs.

We've had multiple nerfs to the efficiency of airstriking tanks already as well with them costing also half as much as before. It seems like this feels unnecessary and may cause players to need an extra AS to keep their Air healthy. This means 1 less airstrike for ground.

 Meaning wars will progress to feeling like a slog fest if the fight is even with people just not being able to kill enough units.

Currently I feel like defending planes are fairly strong on bombing runs as they can often deal equal damage to enemy planes who have even half as many planes they do (Go look at for example 2000 planes vs 1000 planes bombing run sims.)

Seems like an unnecessary change.

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