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[DoW] Here we go again


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14 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Its grumpy justin, please at least get the name of the alliance that has embarrassed yours the last few wars correct.

Is this GoBs admission that even t$, the "closest" in tiering to GoB, still can't do anything against you? Thank you for supporting our statement SRD! Can't wait to see how you resolve it.

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I have never said that we dont have the strongest upper tier in the game, we do, and we are well organized and active.  But if the other blocs could maximize the potential of their upper tiers, it wouldn't look as lopsided as it currently does. 

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15 minutes ago, Bohemond Hauteville said:

A play right out of NPO's books. Shouldn't be surprised I suppose, you were one of their allies in the war which almost killed the game.

Being an aggressive actor with a tier consolidation thats unfightable and playing victim when it blows up in your face politically is also straight out of their handbook. Y'all have a secret bookclub?

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44 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

Is this GoBs admission that even t$, the "closest" in tiering to GoB, still can't do anything against you? Thank you for supporting our statement SRD! Can't wait to see how you resolve it.

It all comes down to perspective my friend,

people like you keep blaming others for their incompetence to field a strong high-tier to much grumpy's,

while others ,walk the walk, get themselves there and join grumpy adding to the fact that you cant compete with us 

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1 minute ago, Master said:

It all comes down to perspective my friend,

people like you keep blaming others for their incompetence to field a strong high-tier to much grumpy's,

while others ,walk the walk, get themselves there and join grumpy adding to the fact that you cant compete with us 

 

Is it incompetence or is it a bunch of pseudo-pixelhuggers pretending they enjoy fighting while sitting in a safety net that even NPO in it's prime barely scratched?

 

Things to think about.

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After reading everything from Adam and Justin; I wonder if the Syndicate is salty enough that they will invade us as well to "help defend against upper tier consolidation". It really is pathetic that they pull out the "we have to fight against hegemony" "unfightable tier consolidation" "safety net" and the greatest one I have read so far "EMC reborn". So if we are EMC, who is NPO? Probably the massive blob of alliances doing exactly what NPO used to in mass consolidation and now.. also secret treaties. tS allied with NPO before so tbqh not too far off of them supporting Inquisitions successor Oasis.

 

Things to think about.

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Posted (edited)

am sorry didnt quite got you,

you are refering to me being that high at 25cities sitting in your so called " safety net " right in npo's meatgrinder,

or me "pretending that i enjoy fighting" coming out of the war with 32-33cities ?

and make no mistake its not only me.

I guess you guys where keeping an umbrella when it was raining whales to help you counter grumpy's dominance.

Edited by Master
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1 minute ago, Emperor Adam said:

 

Is it incompetence or is it a bunch of pseudo-pixelhuggers pretending they enjoy fighting while sitting in a safety net that even NPO in it's prime barely scratched?

 

Things to think about.

It is about not paying to grow some small nation that logs on 12+ hours after being attacked. It is about knowing that peeps will log in come blitz. Mass recruitment alliances will always struggle to retain big nations if they make big nations pay to grow some nation that wont even show up for the war.

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3 minutes ago, Master said:

am sorry didnt quite got you,

you are refering to me being that high at 25cities sitting in your so called " safety net " right in npo's meatgrinder,

or me "pretending that i enjoy fighting" coming out of the war with 32-33cities ?

and make no mistake its not only me.

I guess you guys where keeping an umbrella when it was raining whales to help you counter grumpy's dominance.

Referring to you as an alliance, yes. Sorry your higher tiered aa members left you down there alone.

 

4 minutes ago, Mayor said:

After reading everything from Adam and Justin; I wonder if the Syndicate is salty enough that they will invade us as well to "help defend against upper tier consolidation". It really is pathetic that they pull out the "we have to fight against hegemony" "unfightable tier consolidation" "safety net" and the greatest one I have read so far "EMC reborn". So if we are EMC, who is NPO? Probably the massive blob of alliances doing exactly what NPO used to in mass consolidation and now.. also secret treaties. tS allied with NPO before so tbqh not too far off of them supporting Inquisitions successor Oasis.

 

Things to think about.

"I can't come up with an actual argument as to why we think its okay to unarguably own the whale tier so I will now refer to you as NPO and IQ."

 

0/10 lazy argument

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6 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

"I can't come up with an actual argument as to why we think its okay to unarguably own the whale tier so I will now refer to you as NPO and IQ."

 

53 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I have never said that we dont have the strongest upper tier in the game, we do, and we are well organized and active.  But if the other blocs could maximize the potential of their upper tiers, it wouldn't look as lopsided as it currently does. 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Hodor said:

 

 

Except you, SRD, TKR, etc are missing one very important point that you've avoided no matter how many times it's mentioned.. There has yet to be a war where GoB's upper tier (read:most of the aa) doesn't get to a point where they build out of range and grow while their allies fight. Exponential or not, that in itself makes it nearly impossible for folks to keep up as there's generally multiple wars a year that set back any alliance that could potentially rival you. For ~half of NPOLT y'all were growing and profiting while the rest of the game was struggling to survive. 

Edited by Emperor Adam
Missed a word.
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33 minutes ago, Master said:

It all comes down to perspective my friend,

people like you keep blaming others for their incompetence to field a strong high-tier to much grumpy's,

while others ,walk the walk, get themselves there and join grumpy adding to the fact that you cant compete with us 

Boi [email protected]#$ you, we invented the walk !@#$

26 minutes ago, Mayor said:

After reading everything from Adam and Justin; I wonder if the Syndicate is salty enough that they will invade us as well to "help defend against upper tier consolidation". It really is pathetic that they pull out the "we have to fight against hegemony" "unfightable tier consolidation" "safety net" and the greatest one I have read so far "EMC reborn". So if we are EMC, who is NPO? Probably the massive blob of alliances doing exactly what NPO used to in mass consolidation and now.. also secret treaties. tS allied with NPO before so tbqh not too far off of them supporting Inquisitions successor Oasis.

 

Things to think about.

Go [email protected]#$ yourself too we’re the best fricking alliance in the fricking game, we do what the [email protected]#$ we want !@#$

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4 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

Except you, SRD, TKR, etc are missing one very important point that you've avoided no matter how many times it's mentioned.. There has yet to be a war where GoB's upper tier (read:most of the aa) doesn't get to a point where they build out of range and grow while their allies fight. Exponential or not, that in itself makes it nearly impossible for folks to keep up as there's generally multiple wars a year that set back any alliance that could potentially rival you. For ~half of NPOLT y'all were growing and profiting while the rest of the game was struggling to survive. 

Nah, it's a fair point, but I don't think anyone's avoided it. What would you have us say to that? It's a function of the game that if you don't get hit as hard in a war, you recover faster and can grow more. I think we take issue with the idea that Grumpy somehow picks easy fights, dodges war, or altogether pixel hugs. The history just doesn't support that claim. There are numerous other upper tier alliances who have done all the above and even mass VM in the face of a fight. It's disingenuous to even think to compare us to them.

I really want to know what you want us to say? We're not hiding anything, but I think people like to imagine our positions and then fight that straw man to death. You'll find us generally very forthcoming if you just ask straightforward questions.

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Just now, Hodor said:

Nah, it's a fair point, but I don't think anyone's avoided it. What would you have us say to that? It's a function of the game that if you don't get hit as hard in a war, you recover faster and can grow more. I think we take issue with the idea that Grumpy somehow picks easy fights, dodges war, or altogether pixel hugs. The history just doesn't support that claim. There are numerous other upper tier alliances who have done all the above and even mass VM in the face of a fight. It's disingenuous to even think to compare us to them.

I really want to know what you want us to say? We're not hiding anything, but I think people like to imagine our positions and then fight that straw man to death. You'll find us generally very forthcoming if you just ask straightforward questions.

It's a function that completely tears apart your "lol just catch up??? Incompetent econ???" narrative.

 

If (lets roughly estimate) 25% of the year for most aas is war, compared to roughly (generously) 10-15% for Grumpys whales.... how do you feasibly expect us to catch up? Not only do you have more revenue by means of cities, you're also interupted significantly less.

 

The exponential cost slows you down a bit, but pretending it balances anything is below you and you're smarter than that claim.

 

As for "always picks easy fights", you do. There isn't any difficult fight for you in orbis. Some will take a bit longer to win, but in current state Grumpy will always win. And you'll always grow exponential faster.

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5 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

It's a function that completely tears apart your "lol just catch up??? Incompetent econ???" narrative.

 

If (lets roughly estimate) 25% of the year for most aas is war, compared to roughly (generously) 10-15% for Grumpys whales.... how do you feasibly expect us to catch up? Not only do you have more revenue by means of cities, you're also interupted significantly less.

 

The exponential cost slows you down a bit, but pretending it balances anything is below you and you're smarter than that claim.

 

As for "always picks easy fights", you do. There isn't any difficult fight for you in orbis. Some will take a bit longer to win, but in current state Grumpy will always win. And you'll always grow exponential faster.

What @Hodor is saying bring back 6 month warfare to make it possible

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A couple of things:

 

1. I think it's very reasonable and expected for TKR and Hollywood to be upset by this. The numbers were fairly even when it was Rose + Oasis Vs. Hollywood, and this gives us the CLEAR numerical advantage (even if I'm still getting killed in the whale tier). It's not whining, I think they have legit reason to be upset. 

 

2. I do think that Hollywood set themselves up to feel vindicated about creating their bloc regardless though. Let me explain: if they win they'll say "See, this was a good idea, we rolled Rose". If they lose after other AAs come in, they can say "see, this was necessary, there are secret treaties out there"... and if they win now that multiple spheres are fighting them they could potentially have both. I'm not saying they're in the wrong for this.... if anything it's good foreign policy, but this is just an observation. 

 

15 hours ago, Insert Name Here said:

 

They're all to Rose what the rest of IQ was to NPO: meatshields, flaming garbage that can never serve another purpose than being a buffer for the main alliance.

3. This dosen't really make sense. If we wanted a meat shield, why in the world would we put ourselves in the position to be hit first? That's the opposite of what a meatshield does lol. Likewise, I was asked on Morf's radio show why we didn't militarize, and it was suggested that it was because gov knew that we had allies coming in, instead of us just straight not thinking that we were the target. Even if we did have a master plan with paperless alliances, why wouldn't we militarize anyway? I got in the first attack in all three defensive wars but was overwhelmed because I had no ground forces, resulting in hundreds of millions in infra losses. Across the alliance we have to have lost billions already. Why would we intentionally walk into this?



 

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MR BOOTY IN DA HOUSE

 

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2 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

It's a function that completely tears apart your "lol just catch up??? Incompetent econ???" narrative.

 

If (lets roughly estimate) 25% of the year for most aas is war, compared to roughly (generously) 10-15% for Grumpys whales.... how do you feasibly expect us to catch up? Not only do you have more revenue by means of cities, you're also interupted significantly less.

 

The exponential cost slows you down a bit, but pretending it balances anything is below you and you're smarter than that claim.

 

As for "always picks easy fights", you do. There isn't any difficult fight for you in orbis. Some will take a bit longer to win, but in current state Grumpy will always win. And you'll always grow exponential faster.

I disagree. I have only been in Grumpy for 250 days. In that time I've added 4-5 cities because of no taxes, no interest loans, and a culture which values growth. Much of Grumpy came from somewhere else and they weren't all whales when they arrived. They've become big because it's one of the priorities of the AA and it's what draws certain individuals to it. Other AAs could imitate this and grow, it's just not their model. Nations aren't created as whales, they become whales because of choices and priorities.

I'd also like to note that Grumpy fights quite a bit more than your average alliance as well. For instance, here is the to 10 alliances with their wars/member:

1. Rose - 83 wars

2. TKR - 148 wars

3. t$ - 133 wars

4. TI - 95 wars

5. TFP - 59 wars

6, Cam - 60 wars

7. Grumpy - 210 wars

8. Eclipse - 109 wars

9. Guardian - 102 wars

10. The Order - 74 wars

 

I mean, that's pretty glaring, no?

 

Just now, Eumirbago said:

What @Hodor is saying bring back 6 month warfare to make it possible

I mean, if you look back far enough you'll see I never held that against NPO. It truly was the only way to flip damages for them. It is a tool for those who can't manage to do what I've outline above though.

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11 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

It's a function that completely tears apart your "lol just catch up??? Incompetent econ???" narrative.

 

If (lets roughly estimate) 25% of the year for most aas is war, compared to roughly (generously) 10-15% for Grumpys whales.... how do you feasibly expect us to catch up? Not only do you have more revenue by means of cities, you're also interupted significantly less.

 

The exponential cost slows you down a bit, but pretending it balances anything is below you and you're smarter than that claim.

 

As for "always picks easy fights", you do. There isn't any difficult fight for you in orbis. Some will take a bit longer to win, but in current state Grumpy will always win. And you'll always grow exponential faster.

It isn't incompetence for econ.... most other alliances want to tax the bigger nations for small nation growth. That is fine but usually that means that your big nations are not going to grow as fast. Lets be honest if you are going to be a big nation and are going to be taxed then you want to get some good value alliance members. I can only think of a couple of alliances that use that sacrificed growth well.

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1 minute ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

By half of NPOLT you mean like maybe a month... out of 9 months.  After we wiped out you guys when you tried to focus fire on G/G and jumped in one alliance at a time.  NPO jumped in, had their shit together and kicked our asses pretty quick.  It really isn't hard to beat us, if it was we would never lose a war, but we have lost a bunch.  End of the day tho, its our job to make that win as painful and difficult as possible for our opponents.

Game mechanics are such that we can only do so much as long as you are allowed to hit us without us being able to hit you, we will always be vulnerable, as will any whale alliance, its to our advantage to force you to build up to try to poke at us, vs us dropping a ton of NS to reach you, there is a point mechanically where we just cant do it.  I have sold down, decommed projects. dropped military all of it to try to keep hitting people, I can only go so low, I rejoice everytime I get nuked, because that means I can go lower. (keep working on it 6 dudes I'm fighting, I have only eaten 3 nukes so far, we can do better, I believe in you)

That being said, I get that Hollywood is a threat to every bloc in this game, I am not going to tell you that we aren't the strongest military force in the game, we are. (by how much? you guys can keep arguing over that).   As a former member of Hedge and Ketogg before it, we now have the one thing we never had before, we have numbers.  We dont need to go out and try to find someone to help us fight because we never had numbers like we do now.

I dont even blame the blocs jumping in and trying to dog pile us, I get it.  Granted logistically I think its silly for Oasis to hit us since they really aren't competing with us in terms of tiering.  They should be competing with other huge lower tier blocs of which they dominate, but that is up to their leadership and what they want to do.  My guess is because their leadership are generally on the whale side, they view us as a bigger threat to them than we really are.

Side note, by half the npolt war, you must not mean your alliance that after we slapped down the first week, sat on the sidelines for months just hanging out doing nothing, or a bunch of other alliances like RnR that never engaged at all. (ask Dread how he is currently as big as he is)  Or the fact that you guys currently are not fighting at all, and get to sit back and grow and make bank in the trade market while the rest of the world blows each other up.

Worth noting that I wasn't in t$ during NPOLT and I've done a lot of internal criticism on t$'s actions during it as well (frickin Hilmes). I won't defend Syndis actions during it as I wasn't part of the decision making process and disagree with a lot of the moves made during it.

 

As for "We aren't hard to best because we've lost". No. Your allies did. Grumpy, as I've mentioned multiple times, usually comes out with a couple scratches. Your allies are the ones that decide whether you as a coalition lose. 

 

I've also done my fair share of criticism on useless whales (Hi Alpha, Yarr, and RNR!). But even if they did things, your only real threat there is Wampus and with his level of activity and competence y'all will be fine, assuming he has the balls to enter in the first place. 

8 minutes ago, Hodor said:

I disagree. I have only been in Grumpy for 250 days. In that time I've added 4-5 cities because of no taxes, no interest loans, and a culture which values growth. Much of Grumpy came from somewhere else and they weren't all whales when they arrived. They've become big because it's one of the priorities of the AA and it's what draws certain individuals to it. Other AAs could imitate this and grow, it's just not their model. Nations aren't created as whales, they become whales because of choices and priorities.

I'd also like to note that Grumpy fights quite a bit more than your average alliance as well. For instance, here is the to 10 alliances with their wars/member:

1. Rose - 83 wars

2. TKR - 148 wars

3. t$ - 133 wars

4. TI - 95 wars

5. TFP - 59 wars

6, Cam - 60 wars

7. Grumpy - 210 wars

8. Eclipse - 109 wars

9. Guardian - 102 wars

10. The Order - 74 wars

 

I mean, that's pretty glaring, no?

 

I mean, if you look back far enough you'll see I never held that against NPO. It truly was the only way to flip damages for them. It is a tool for those who can't manage to do what I've outline above though.

Using aas that actively recruit and most of which (t$ excluded to an extend) have their small/new nations in their aas isn't really an accurate number to compare to an aa full of old players.

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7 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

Wampus

SHHHHH!! Don't say his name or you'll scare him into VM!

7 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

Using aas that actively recruit and most of which (t$ excluded to an extend) have their small/new nations in their aas isn't really an accurate number to compare to an aa full of old players.

Once again I disagree. Mass recruiting alliances should have MUCH higher wars because of low tier raiding that they should be highly encouraging. Grumpy's wars are purely inter alliance wars which makes it even more impressive.

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Just now, Hodor said:

SHHHHH!! Don't say his name or you'll scare him into VM!

Once again I disagree. Mass recruiting alliances should have MUCH higher wars because of low tier raiding that they should be highly encouraging. Grumpy's wars are purely inter alliance wars which makes it even more impressive.

The amount of players will inevitably take down the average wars. Hard to agree with that thought process. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Emperor Adam said:

The amount of players will inevitably take down the average wars. Hard to agree with that thought process. 

I actually agree with Adam here, I used that same stat like a week or two ago, and after I thought about it, I was like... well we should be higher because we are all old as shit and have seen many wars.  tho comparing it with other "whale alliances" they dont come close to our number despite having a smaller sample size.  I also believe in our entire history, we have only skipped one major global, and that was when we were less than a year old and had like 15 members.

You are still the best tho Hodor!  And you are correct, for most of us (not all because we do have some retired raiders) our wars are gained from fighting in globals, not from raiding.

 

Edited by Sweeeeet Ronny D
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