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Dubayoo

The Losers of Lordaeron

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(I don't know if this belongs here or in National Affairs, so if it needs to be moved, feel free to move it.)

 

The number one problem that this gameworld has is how slow it can be.  It takes a ton of time to accumulate resources, and you just end up with people saving up to sit around on stockpiles.   It further discourages activity from people getting bored.  They leave the game, and don't look back... which makes the game more inactive and creates a vicious cycle.

 

One of the things you can do to reinvigorate activity, though, is recycle inactive players' resources.  That way, future new players can make more things happen. On the other hand, if you're temporarily inactive, you just go into vacation mode...

 

...which of course, Lordaeron doesn't permit, so what happens?  Its players go inactive and become vulnerable.  

 

The problem here is people can't tell in advance which players are really inactive versus those that have serious real life priorities...

 

...so what happens?

 

Players with serious real life priorities get targeted.  They shouldn't get targeted, but they can't clarify their position, so they do.

 

On top of that, you have other players who even if they are active, don't log in enough to regularly play the game.  Frankly, these people shouldn't be in the game to begin with.  They can't coordinate efficiently, so they're asking to get destroyed over the long run.  Any short-run build up will ultimately be in vain since they don't have a chance...

 

...but of course, Lordaeron recruits these players into its ranks.

 

Of course, these players get attacked as well, but if you'd like to offer them a peace treaty, they take forever to accept.  It makes you look like a warmonger despite how you're not.

 

The result is you need to protect these two groups which makes thing clumsy, awkward, and frustrating.

 

Still, the right way to protect them is simple: use your words.  Tell whoever's attacking what the problem is.  If they stop, you don't do anything.  If they keep going, you act.

 

The problem with Lordaeron is it doesn't know how to use words.  Its members counterattack without warning even after another member warns and the attacker stops, even after the attacker saves MAPs instead of attacking as much as one could...

 

...but it gets worse than this.

 

When you counterattack, you shove to a point.  You order members at the level of the attacker to counterattack.  They engage, show their solidarity, and it convinces the attacker to back down.

 

In fact, I've encountered this a few times, and I've backed down because of it.  Just because I play a pirate doesn't mean I expect special treatment.  I understand the risk of being countered.  Imperial British Commonwealth and Global Communist Bloc are two alliances that did this correctly.

 

What you DON'T do is downdeclare en masse with players barely in nation score to fill the attacker's defensive slots and obliterate the attacker.  Why?

 

1) It makes it so you're the only one who takes damages.  The attacker isn't going to find another target somewhere else.  That puts your group behind the pack.  This is a mass-multiplayer game, not a 1v1.

 

2) It's flat out cowardly in suggesting your upper-tier members don't fight enemies at their own level since they fight weaker enemies to feel good about themselves.

 

3) It removes combat experience from lower-tier members in your own alliance that they could grow with, and suggests your own alliance doesn't care to cultivate combat experience.

 

4) It creates animosity.  If you shove to make a point, it suggests you understand restraint.  That means the attacker has no motive to remember you.  If you obliterate, you leave a lasting impact which means sometime into the distant future, the attacker will have it in for you.  On top of that, it encourages the attacker to find out who your enemies are, and become a Machiavellian where the enemies of your enemies are the attacker's friends.  You turn a temporary neutral attacker into a permanent hostile enemy.

 

Remember, counters should be done in proportion.  You don't want the attacker to prioritize you versus the rest of the world.  If the attacker does, it puts you behind the rest of the world.  

 

The exception here is if the attacker comes back for another round AFTER countering in proportion.  Then, you want to leave a lasting impression because obviously, the attacker didn't learn from experience the first time.  If no first experience happened though, then you're jumping to conclusions.

 

Of course, Lordaeron doesn't get any of this.  Instead, it just gets triggerhappy.  The idea of engaging the right way with the right players doesn't exist in its mind.  It also treats you like you're the only other side in the world instead of realizing there's more to it.

 

On top of this, its triggerhappiness happens without orders which suggests a lack of organized leadership.  

 

Lastly, if you make mistakes here, you own up to them.  That means you pay damages.  Again, Global Communist Bloc was a good example of an alliance that understood this.  It realized it failed to talk before acting to counter an attack, so it knew damages were in order.  If you don't own up to them, then expect to be denounced...

 

...don't BEIGE the attacker.  That just makes things go from bad to worse.  Again, you're delaying the time that the attacker can go to find another target which keeps you behind the pack.  It also reinforces animosity.

 

We need to understand that PnW is a mass multiplayer strategic competition.  This isn't a simulation of real life with justice and morals.  This isn't a 1v1 situation where you want to prevent a solitary opponent from engaging you in the future.  

 

This is a game that works like a race.  If you block a specific racer, you're losing to all the others.  Going all out to prevent one racer from getting ahead is a strategy of losers.  On top of that, it discourages people from strategizing with you in the future which makes you even more of a loser.

Edited by Argotitan
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This is a very long post

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Lord-A-Aron sucks and will continue to lose.  

 

My seven words accomplished the same goal as your essay.  

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I agree with you Agrotitan

Edited by Catho
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While I agree with Thalmor I think OP made some good points

Edited by Catho

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Both of those guys live in Brazil and are going through some things...not going to let you raid our guys man.

 

EDIT: Very long message to complain about a counter.

Edited by Kastor

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Edited by Kilgore

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Lol sucks to suck. 

 

Hence why you had to downdeclare on someone younger than you, with less cities than you, and less infrastructure per city 3 times to feel good about yourself.

 

Maybe this is why you lost the war.  You don't know how to organize against others in a fair fight or how to use diplomacy correctly.

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Hence why you had to downdeclare on someone younger than you, with less cities than you, and less infrastructure per city 3 times to feel good about yourself.

 

Maybe this is why you lost the war.  You don't know how to organize against others in a fair fight or how to use diplomacy correctly.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You're not going to raid our members and get away with it.

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*Has tunnelvision and ignores the big picture*

 

 

Mate, seeing what you want to see doesn't make you a visionary.  It just makes you deluded.

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Hence why you had to downdeclare on someone younger than you, with less cities than you, and less infrastructure per city 3 times to feel good about yourself.

 

Maybe this is why you lost the war.  You don't know how to organize against others in a fair fight or how to use diplomacy correctly.

Listen bud, your nation is only a month old, and I understand that some lessons have to be learned the hard way. If you raid an alliance, they are under no obligation to warn you of impending counters. A declaration of war on anyone in Lordaeron is a declaration of war on all of Lordaeron. So after you get rolled, brush yourself off and raid to your heart's content, but recognize the inherent risk in what you're doing. 

 

You won't get any sympathy from anyone except for Kastor haters and noobs. 

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You have no idea what you're talking about. You're not going to raid our members and get away with it.

 

You wrote a whole post about how aggressively Lordaeron counters pirates and you think that reflects badly on them? 

 

Listen bud, your nation is only a month old, and I understand that some lessons have to be learned the hard way. If you raid an alliance, they are under no obligation to warn you of impending counters. A declaration of war on anyone in Lordaeron is a declaration of war on all of Lordaeron. So after you get rolled, brush yourself off and raid to your heart's content, but recognize the inherent risk in what you're doing. 

 

You won't get any sympathy from anyone except for Kastor haters and noobs. 

 

Really not sure you guys read what I wrote, but keep trying to deflect attention from being irrational.  That's what losing alliances do.

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Really not sure you guys read what I wrote, but keep trying to deflect attention from being irrational.  That's what losing alliances do.

 

If they're so wrong, then it should be easy for you to refute them (including me).

 

Come on now, oh wise one of 32 days of existence! Enlighten us! Show us veterans of the community - such as myself, Kastor, and Woot - the errors of our ways! 

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If they're so wrong, then it should be easy...

 

...so what?

 

Whether something's easy or hard has nothing to do with whether something's right or wrong.

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...so what?

 

Whether something's easy or hard has nothing to do with whether something's right or wrong.

 

Alright, you're just a troll. 6/10 performance. Would've been better if you just made up shit to reinforce your points and forcing people to respond.

 

Better luck next time.

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I was going to refute you point by point, but then I thought I could watch Netflix instead. Have fun getting rolled, buddy. 

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Really not sure you guys read what I wrote, but keep trying to deflect attention from being irrational.  That's what losing alliances do.

 

I don't believe that attacking a pirate with a more than decent army is irrational when the conflict was clearly started by you. Peace was offered but you fought for your own greed, but got countered hard and can't accept the fact that it was fair play.

 

You could think for yourself, you are a young nation but your army is plenty enough to defend and obviously not enough for you to bully alliances. 

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Would've been better if you just made up shit...

 

Way to project for how I just called you out for not making sense.

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(I'd edit, but the forum formatting here doesn't like your quoting system in edits.)

 

 

I don't believe that attacking a pirate with a more than decent army is irrational when the conflict was clearly started by you. Peace was offered but you fought for your own greed, but got countered hard and can't accept the fact that it was fair play.

 

You could think for yourself, you are a young nation but your army is plenty enough to defend and obviously not enough for you to bully alliances. 

 

In a game like this, there is no such thing as decency.  If you think there is, that explains why you're in a losing alliance.

 

Diplomatic protocol is done for rationality so you don't overcommit.  Your alliance has overcommitted by a ton to take me out.  

 

Other alliances will laugh at you behind your back, and as long as you focus on me, you will continue to be laughed at.

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This entire post comes off as you being a crybaby, Dub, and extends towards making your alliance seem like crybabies - the latter of which I know to be untrue. Arrgh! are no crybabies.

 

At the end, you're simply taking the moral high-ground, and talking about how it was cowardly for Lordaeron to do what they did. I shit on Kas as much as the next Orbisian, but this makes little to no sense. You, as a raider, a pirate at that, should know that if you raid someone in a competent alliance it's pretty much a KOS warrant. Lordaeron countered, they countered hard, and countered fast. Kudos to them for making you this butthurt, that you need to come on the OWF to complain about countering.

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