Buorhann Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 We were just chatting about this. The SRD love fest goes back to that one war where SRD was claiming to be winning, or not losing, because 10 out of the 110 people in VE were not wrecked. Lets start that debate up again! Haha, I almost forgotten about that. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I still stand behind that, if you cant kill the top tier you haven't won, because the top tier is where the donuts are made, and post war, if they are in great shape they can help rebuild your alliance really quick, because they are the ones that pump out the cash. You wipe out 10 5 city guys who cares? you can rebuild those dudes in a day or two, you wipe out a top tier nation, that is 100s of millions of dollars to get back into fighting form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I still stand behind that, if you cant kill the top tier you haven't won, because the top tier is where the donuts are made, and post war, if they are in great shape they can help rebuild your alliance really quick, because they are the ones that pump out the cash. You wipe out 10 5 city guys who cares? you can rebuild those dudes in a day or two, you wipe out a top tier nation, that is 100s of millions of dollars to get back into fighting form. That's false. Any nation can be brought back to "fighting form" by buying infra up to 1300 in each city. The rest is what we call "whale fat" or "free infra destroyed points.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 I still stand behind that, if you cant kill the top tier you haven't won, because the top tier is where the donuts are made, and post war, if they are in great shape they can help rebuild your alliance really quick, because they are the ones that pump out the cash. You wipe out 10 5 city guys who cares? you can rebuild those dudes in a day or two, you wipe out a top tier nation, that is 100s of millions of dollars to get back into fighting form. Just increase reparations amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 That's false. Any nation can be brought back to "fighting form" by buying infra up to 1300 in each city. The rest is what we call "whale fat" or "free infra destroyed points.' As a Manufacturing Engineer in rl, I am all about staying lean, but 1300 is too lean, 26 isn't enough improvement slots max out your income, and make sure you are producing your nations resources, it also handicaps your daily income, running with that little infra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 As a Manufacturing Engineer in rl, I am all about staying lean, but 1300 is too lean, 26 isn't enough improvement slots max out your income, and make sure you are producing your nations resources, it also handicaps your daily income, running with that little infra. It's enough for war. We call it the NK (or North Korea) build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 that is correct, but when i said fighting form, i meant post war fighting form, which is the form you use to get as much cash and resources stockpiled before the next war starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 You don't really need to explain SRD. We know you stand by it. We understand your reasoning. You are simply wrong. You are wrong from a math perspective, from an economics perspective, from a social dynamics perspective, and a gamer's perspective. So really just wrong. Quote -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) If I am wrong why are you 600 days old with only 13 cities? You should be closer to Avurch's size, which in turn would make you guys an even more devastating fighting force than you are currently. If you are limiting your city count on purpose for better war coverage and grouping, in that case your goals and my goals are not the same. Edited September 20, 2016 by Sweeeeet Ronny D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 That is a false dilemma. You are wrong about having won that war because you are wrong. We were talking about how you miss-classify the outcome of a particular war. Not philosophical discussion about overall goals for the game. Quote -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hysteria Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸ GOD EMPEROR DIO BRANDO¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¸ DIO BRANDO GOD EMPEROR¨°º¤ø„¸¨°º¤ø„¤¤º°¨ ø„¸¸„¨ ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤ø„¸ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 If I am wrong why are you 600 days old with only 13 cities? You should be closer to Avurch's size, which in turn would make you guys an even more devastating fighting force than you are currently. If you are limiting your city count on purpose for better war coverage and grouping, in that case your goals and my goals are not the same. Your goal is to be personally as large and powerful as possible. That may not be the most effective strategy for an alliance, especially one that focuses on being supremely effective in war. I'm an outlier in Mensa for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 *WHALE NOISES* 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 SRD is right about the top tier strength being a huge factor. He is also right about "fighting form" let's say you have 1,300 infra and you max out military(no ships). Thats 15 improvements, then 9 for commerce. That's 24....leaving 1 for the nuclear power plant and 1 for the police station. No hospitals, recycling centers, etc. Unless you were talking about after getting hit down "rebuild" to 1,300 for population purposes which is also wrong. If you build your city right you can rebuild to 1,100 and be fine. Personally, 1,800 is the sweet spot between military vs economy. Many say 1,700 but I think that extra 100 infra is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguar Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 4,5k infra per city ftw https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=5478 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 SRD is right about the top tier strength being a huge factor. He is also right about "fighting form" let's say you have 1,300 infra and you max out military(no ships). Thats 15 improvements, then 9 for commerce. That's 24....leaving 1 for the nuclear power plant and 1 for the police station. No hospitals, recycling centers, etc. Unless you were talking about after getting hit down "rebuild" to 1,300 for population purposes which is also wrong. If you build your city right you can rebuild to 1,100 and be fine. Personally, 1,800 is the sweet spot between military vs economy. Many say 1,700 but I think that extra 100 infra is important. Perhaps you misread? SRD thinks that fighting form is > 1300 infra because he wants to max production and income. We said that, for the purposes of fighting during a war, 1300 infra is fine. You can generally assume that when it comes to fighting a war, we know what we are doing. Top tier strength is not a non-factor, but it is not decisive in deciding whether or not you lost. If you have 100 people and 90 of them are zeroed and 10 of them are OK, you did not win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRahl2 Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 SRD is right about the top tier strength being a huge factor. Top "tier" strength may be a factor. But when you have 100 nations crushed to dust and 10 that are okay you have lost the war. As far as "fighting form" he is talking about post war rebuilding. Quote -signature removed for rules violation- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Just FYI, you guys are replying to Kastor about fighting a war. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachBunny Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 This is what I think of when I hear this argument of 90% of our alliance is on fire but we didn't lose the war guys. 1 Quote ☾☆ Priest of Dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 If you have 100 people and 90 of them are zeroed and 10 of them are OK, you did not win. Just to emphasize - these are not hypothetical numbers, this is exactly what happened to VE. They actually started with something like 114 people, but around 10-15 deleted or left VE during the war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiney Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Jesus Christ this is what happens when me and srd side in a war, this is the worst feud since mensa vs oblige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromstar Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 Jesus Christ this is what happens when me and srd side in a war, this is the worst feud since mensa vs oblige. What do you mean 'since'? #Harpoons4everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 As a Manufacturing Engineer in rl, I am all about staying lean, but 1300 is too lean, 26 isn't enough improvement slots max out your income, and make sure you are producing your nations resources, it also handicaps your daily income, running with that little infra. As an Econ PhD IRL, I mean what I say. "Fighting form" is max military with enough buildings to sustain unit upkeep. This is achieved by the 1300 infra North Korea build: 1 NPP + 15 military + 9 commerce + 1 police station. This isn't a build suitable for growth. For growth, you need at least 1500 infra. I went up to 1700 myself with my 15 cities. 2000+ is definitely too fat for an alliance which participates in every major war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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