Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations

[Eumirbago]

Good god this dead horse has been beaten so many times it's back to a molecular level. You can think whatever you'd like about "just suspending him from alliance chat" but it's total garbage. Away from whatever fictional world you're living in: we let our members let their voices be heard and handled it well beyond a slap on the wrist. In the end, our allies were informed about his punishment and had a solid 4 months to let their opinions be heard. Surprise! They didn't.

 

It's bought up all the time as a faux pas against SK whenever we don't do something everybody likes. And you wonder why Gandalf might have a hate boner.

 

Regardless of your perception of the situation it's done- SK doesn't run on one persons goal.

 

Also Kastor, be quiet.

Gandalf's hate-boner will give us 3 more victories. Keep him in and keep the same opinions the same so we can keep rerunning this one.

[Kastor]

Doesn't surprise me that you don't understand the principle of the matter.

Don't start with me hippo. One person doesn't make an alliance. Take for example, TKR, I don't really like Sargun or Lordship so I talk to IC. In Mensa, I used to go to TUGT regardless of the issue, he's just the guy I went too. UPN I didn't care for Victor so I talked to Ole or Emmad etc..

 

People say they dislike me, Rozalia, Roz Wei etc.. We don't take it to heart, we work around them or with them. Gandalf being FA head isn't a huge issue- you could've talked to Brooklyn(the logs leaked had Partisan and Brooklym), Callum, or Valdoroth. I remember several alliance leaders not being able to deal with Pfeiffer so they went to other people.

 

The fact is you're trying very hard to paint yourself in a good light. You're not in one, not to say you're the bad guys, just that you're not on your high horse that you claim to be. This reeks of a bad breakup. You say they went after you by making Gandalf FA head, that this was the obvious route, I can honestly tell you it wasn't. SK didn't want to fight you. They were content being distant enemies. But you did harass them on the forums, some of your members went after SK- just like you did/do to Alpha. Just because someone doesn't want to ride or die with you anymore doesn't mean they're your enemy. You did it to Rose/VE, to Alpha, and now SK. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. What happens if Mensa leaves? BK? Same shit happens, you're not an angel.

[Eumirbago]

Don't start with me hippo. One person doesn't make an alliance. Take for example, TKR, I don't really like Sargun or Lordship so I talk to IC. In Mensa, I used to go to TUGT regardless of the issue, he's just the guy I went too. UPN I didn't care for Victor so I talked to Ole or Emmad etc..

 

People say they dislike me, Rozalia, Roz Wei etc.. We don't take it to heart, we work around them or with them. Gandalf being FA head isn't a huge issue- you could've talked to Brooklyn(the logs leaked had Partisan and Brooklym), Callum, or Valdoroth. I remember several alliance leaders not being able to deal with Pfeiffer so they went to other people.

 

The fact is you're trying very hard to paint yourself in a good light. You're not in one, not to say you're the bad guys, just that you're not on your high horse that you claim to be. This reeks of a bad breakup. You say they went after you by making Gandalf FA head, that this was the obvious route, I can honestly tell you it wasn't. SK didn't want to fight you. They were content being distant enemies. But you did harass them on the forums, some of your members went after SK- just like you did/do to Alpha. Just because someone doesn't want to ride or die with you anymore doesn't mean they're your enemy. You did it to Rose/VE, to Alpha, and now SK. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. What happens if Mensa leaves? BK? Same shit happens, you're not an angel.

Nou there are more strategies to roll out and Paragone and Covenoob will be the ones to do the beta testing. This must continue.

[LordRahl2]

Don't start with me hippo. One person doesn't make an alliance. Take for example, TKR, I don't really like Sargun or Lordship so I talk to IC. In Mensa, I used to go to TUGT regardless of the issue, he's just the guy I went too. UPN I didn't care for Victor so I talked to Ole or Emmad etc..

 

People say they dislike me, Rozalia, Roz Wei etc.. We don't take it to heart, we work around them or with them. Gandalf being FA head isn't a huge issue- you could've talked to Brooklyn(the logs leaked had Partisan and Brooklym), Callum, or Valdoroth. I remember several alliance leaders not being able to deal with Pfeiffer so they went to other people.

 

The fact is you're trying very hard to paint yourself in a good light. You're not in one, not to say you're the bad guys, just that you're not on your high horse that you claim to be. This reeks of a bad breakup. You say they went after you by making Gandalf FA head, that this was the obvious route, I can honestly tell you it wasn't. SK didn't want to fight you. They were content being distant enemies. But you did harass them on the forums, some of your members went after SK- just like you did/do to Alpha. Just because someone doesn't want to ride or die with you anymore doesn't mean they're your enemy. You did it to Rose/VE, to Alpha, and now SK. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. What happens if Mensa leaves? BK? Same shit happens, you're not an angel.

What if, and this is a BIG what if believe me, there was a vote that showed that the whole alliance supported one person. That would basically be the alliance then not "just one person"?

[Beowulf the Second]

Gandalf's cool in person, if inappropriately flirtatious with underage boys

 

 

From: Gandalf  Date: 09/12/2016 Monday 1:12 am 

Running straight to 6 GAs is no fun now, is it? If you want me to hit you where it counts, you'll have to wine and dine me a bit. Let's get to know each other. Make me really want to do it  

xoxo

 

also he's gotten some effing lucky nukes on my power plants

 

 

EDIT: flag was enormous

Edited September 15, 2016 by Beowulf the Second

[Mikey]

Gandalf's cool in person, if inappropriately flirtatious with underage boys

 

 

also he's gotten some effing lucky nukes on my power plants

 

 

EDIT: flag was enormous

 

He's not a bad dude, and frankly I don't really believe anybody here is, at least I won't judge the man behind the screen for the actions of the in-game persona. This no doubt influenced our members, many of whom know him on a personal level and interact with him outside the game, in their decision. This doesn't effect what he did IC, nor the way his actions and appointment were or should have been taken by our allies. But there are reasons, aside from desiring some beef with t$, why people chose to keep him on. I do not ask that it be accepted as the right choice, nor do I ask our former allies to necessarily revise their opinions of the IC nation ruler Gandalf. Only that it be acknowledged that there could be, and were, other reasons for the votes that were cast.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Mikey

[Buorhann]

>other reasons the votes were cast

 

Huh, I wonder...

[Beowulf the Second]

We stuck by SK for many conflicts DESPITE Gandalf. Would you ally an alliance who's FA hated you and had leaked your plans in the past? Dunno, but we liked SK enough to do it.

 

Then SK left to do their third sphere thing, and we were dismayed because:

1. we had lost an ally lol, which we obviously liked
2. we weren't informed beforehand... so that was kinda rude but w/e
3. dammit did Gandalf do this, that sneaky bastard

But the above were mostly fine because of the payoff: they were promising to deliver a tripolar world, with a break from the monotony from the last six/seven? conflicts. This would have IMO been absolutely worth them leaving! but now that we've just come back together for Steve's War 2.0 there's actually zero payoff and so I think some of our members which were fine with points 1-3 before given that payoff are now like 'ffs'

 

 

He's not a bad dude, and frankly I don't really believe anybody here is, at least I won't judge the man behind the screen for the actions of the in-game persona. This no doubt influenced our members, many of whom know him on a personal level and interact with him outside the game, in their decision. This doesn't effect what he did IC, nor the way his actions and appointment were or should have been taken by our allies. But there are reasons, aside from desiring some beef with t$, why people chose to keep him on. I do not ask that it be accepted as the right choice, nor do I ask our former allies to necessarily revise their opinions of the IC nation ruler Gandalf. Only that it be acknowledged that there could be, and were, other reasons for the votes that were cast.

 

except Steve, that guy sucks ;D

 

Nah, I understand where you're coming from. Talking to him one-on-one while fighting him? I think he's cool in that regard myself. The main concern we have is obvious though: electing Gandalf FA was clearly going to push you guys farther from t$/your allies on that side in some way, and so either your members seem to have either wanted to do that, or regarded that as secondary to other concerns (I would bet his seduction skills alone probably garnered 1/3 of his vote)

Edited September 15, 2016 by Beowulf the Second

[Spaceman Thrax]

Don't start with me hippo. One person doesn't make an alliance. Take for example, TKR, I don't really like Sargun or Lordship so I talk to IC. In Mensa, I used to go to TUGT regardless of the issue, he's just the guy I went too. UPN I didn't care for Victor so I talked to Ole or Emmad etc..

 

People say they dislike me, Rozalia, Roz Wei etc.. We don't take it to heart, we work around them or with them. Gandalf being FA head isn't a huge issue- you could've talked to Brooklyn(the logs leaked had Partisan and Brooklym), Callum, or Valdoroth. I remember several alliance leaders not being able to deal with Pfeiffer so they went to other people.

 

The fact is you're trying very hard to paint yourself in a good light. You're not in one, not to say you're the bad guys, just that you're not on your high horse that you claim to be. This reeks of a bad breakup. You say they went after you by making Gandalf FA head, that this was the obvious route, I can honestly tell you it wasn't. SK didn't want to fight you. They were content being distant enemies. But you did harass them on the forums, some of your members went after SK- just like you did/do to Alpha. Just because someone doesn't want to ride or die with you anymore doesn't mean they're your enemy. You did it to Rose/VE, to Alpha, and now SK. This is a pattern, not an anomaly. What happens if Mensa leaves? BK? Same shit happens, you're not an angel.

 

Considered refuting Kastor: decided to do literally anything else instead.

 

Edit: And Beo's post is pretty spot on. Thanks Beo!

Edited September 15, 2016 by Manthrax

[Mikey]

>other reasons the votes were cast

 

Huh, I wonder...

 

If you bothered to read anything we've been saying you wouldn't have to wonder.

 

Nah, I understand where you're coming from. Talking to him one-on-one while fighting him? I think he's cool in that regard myself. The main concern we have is obvious though: electing Gandalf FA was clearly going to push you guys farther from t$/your allies on that side in some way, and so either your members seem to have either wanted to do that, or regarded that as secondary to other concerns (I would bet his seduction skills alone probably garnered 1/3 of his vote)

 

I'm not saying that your concerns are invalid. I agree that his appointment lead to a drift - the 3rd sphere action was supported broadly by everybody, but the man himself has made to attempt to hide his preferred direction, however lacking in support he finds those proposals.I think we are, to an extent, misunderstanding each other. I do not blame you guys for being upset over his reappointment. I fully understand why our actions were taken the way they were. I am not claiming there were no consequences for our relationship from those actions. I am not saying we have not gone in a different direction (though in this case we likely would have gone for the third sphere push with or without the man).

 

The only thing I have been contesting is the claim that we actively wanted to harm you and plotted to do so since last April. On the whole, it seems we have come to something of an understanding in that regard, at least with Manthrax. My comments regarding Gandalf were only to explain why his appointment did not signify a direct desire on our part to spill t$ blood. I recognize why it looks that way. I recognize the various consequences of that action. I was only responding to one particular line of reasoning being used to justify the suspicions of our supposed grand anti-t$ plot.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Mikey

[LordRahl2]

>"3rd Sphere action"

 

I am honestly unsure if you all actually believed that BS or if it is just a talking point.

[Mikey]

>"3rd Sphere action"

 

I am honestly unsure if you all actually believed that BS or if it is just a talking point.

 

I legitimately do not understand this. If someone can explain to me how it would be beneficial to our "evil plan" to try and recruit TKR and other known friends of t$, then I will stop trying to defend this sphere. The fact is we approached numerous alliances in both blocks about forming a third sphere. Only one side took us up on that, or are you going to blame us for that too? If even just one (god forbid all) of the people we talked to on your side had joined this sphere, there would have been no way to secretly "rejoin" paracov or whatever it is you think we did here. Say what you want about our intentions after the fact when it was just Rose and VE, there are grounds to see it that way although I don't believe they are substantiated. But the notion that we intended from the start to be some kind of smokescreen for a jump to the other side is completely laughable.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Mikey

[Bollocks]

I agree that his appointment lead to a drift - the 3rd sphere action was supported broadly by everybody

 

Clearly you all must be disappointed that you merely joined the ParaCov sphere.

[Buorhann]

>contest claim to actively harm you

>literally puts the guy who leaked plans into a gov spot

>allies with the alliance that attacked an ally of Syndicate's

[LordRahl2]

I legitimately do not understand this. If someone can explain to me how it would be beneficial to our "evil plan" to try and recruit TKR and other known friends of t$, then I will stop trying to defend this sphere. The fact is we approached numerous alliances in both blocks about forming a third sphere. Only one side took us up on that, or are you going to blame us for that too? If even just one (god forbid all) of the people we talked to on your side had joined this sphere, there would have been no way to secretly "rejoin" paracov or whatever it is you think we did here. Say what you want about our intentions after the fact when it was just Rose and VE, there are grounds to see it that way although I don't believe they are substantiated. But the notion that we intended from the start to be some kind of smokescreen for a jump to the other side is completely laughable.

 

It is super easy.  Nobody should have actually believed that there was a "3rd Sphere".  It is a fundamental basic concept to relations in this game.  The only logical reason to do so is to give an excuse to pry a few enemy alliances away from the other side.

 

For evidence of the no 3rd Sphere I give you this very war.

 

So you were either using the 3rd Sphere BS to cover up your move or you honestly do not understand the core IR system of the game.

[Dolores Abernathy]

I feel like I should clarify something: I was already the head of FA when I leaked the IRC logs. You guys keep saying that I was promoted after the leak, or that I was given the position after the leak, and that simply isn't true. The members voted on a suspension (there was an option for me to resign, and it literally only got like five votes or something), and I was barred from any contact with sensitive information for months. After the suspension was up, I continued being the head of FA.

 

Also SK doesn't elect its Gov, I was chosen sometime last November/December (I think) to serve as the MoD, and eventually got shuffled around to MoFA. In addition, I was not the sole supporter of creating a third sphere. The majority of SK did. I don't have as much influence over SK as I think a lot of you think lol

[Roquentin]

It is super easy.  Nobody should have actually believed that there was a "3rd Sphere".  It is a fundamental basic concept to relations in this game.  The only logical reason to do so is to give an excuse to pry a few enemy alliances away from the other side.

 

For evidence of the no 3rd Sphere I give you this very war.

 

So you were either using the 3rd Sphere BS to cover up your move or you honestly do not understand the core IR system of the game.

 

The 3rd sphere was real. To be frank, as we didn't get back together until like a week or so ago,  it really hobbled us in terms of prep as the prior efforts to coordinate militarily were all wiped out by the split. 

 

The evidence is pretty clear with Alpha having to bulk up as until a week ago, we just expected to get steamrolled with no chance at conventional, so they were just going with full nuclear.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Roquentin

[Buorhann]

I feel like I should clarify something: I was already the head of FA when I leaked the IRC logs. You guys keep saying that I was promoted after the leak, or that I was given the position after the leak, and that simply isn't true. The members voted on a suspension (there was an option for me to resign, and it literally only got like five votes or something), and I was barred from any contact with sensitive information for months. After the suspension was up, I continued being the head of FA.

 

Also SK doesn't elect its Gov, I was chosen sometime last November/December (I think) to serve as the MoD, and eventually got shuffled around to MoFA. In addition, I was not the sole supporter of creating a third sphere. The majority of SK did. I don't have as much influence over SK as I think a lot of you think lol

 

 

>doesn't have as much influence as we think

>leaked logs that caused a premature war happening

>now we know to blame Valdorath entirely for SK's !@#$ups

[Spaceman Thrax]

The 3rd sphere was real. To be frank, as we didn't get back together until like a week or so ago,  it really hobbled us in terms of prep as the efforts to coordinate militarily were all wiped out by the split. 

 

"The third sphere was real"

~ Guy who undertook a campaign to murder the third sphere, 2016

 

 

I think the point people are making is about SK being somewhat naive in thinking they'd be able to change the dynamic as much as they thought. Turning that around as if it is somehow my own sphere's fault seems pretty disingenuous, and a lot of people from our sphere take exception to it. If the 3rd sphere only existed in peace time, was it real?

 

Did they try? Yes. Did they think it would work? I think so. Did they do enough to make sure that was true? Nope.

 

The nastiness comes from the fact that they fell right back into the same pattern after making such claims about wanting to break from it. I think there were those in SK who thought that would be accomplished only after our sphere was defeated, and those that thought they'd be able to coexist.

 

Shrug! That's my opinion anyways.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Manthrax

[Roquentin]

"The third sphere was real"

~ Guy who undertook a campaign to murder the third sphere, 2016

 

 

I think the point people are making is about SK being somewhat naive in thinking they'd be able to change the dynamic as much as they thought. Turning that around as if it is somehow my own sphere's fault seems pretty disingenuous, and a lot of people from our sphere take exception to it. If the 3rd sphere only existed in peace time, was it real?

 

Did they try? Yes. Did they think it would work? I think so. Did they do enough to make sure that was true? Nope.

 

The nastiness comes from the fact that they fell right back into the same pattern after making such claims about wanting to break from it. I think there were those in SK who thought that would be accomplished only after our sphere was defeated, and those that thought they'd be able to coexist.

 

Shrug! That's my opinion anyways.

 

There's your thing. They did realize that you'd have to be defeated for it to work unless your sphere also split up,  because it's merely the reality. A third sphere when there is a dominant grouping and just another smaller sphere does nothing and is an easy target at a time of your choosing. They felt sufficiently threatened by your group to make common cause and it was the rational decision.  Pretty sure it was explained to you how people were seeing it as a coin flip of which of NPO/TC or Rose/VE/SK to hit first to roll the other after. Not surprising it was an easy decision given how you were all so open about your intentions.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Roquentin

[Spaceman Thrax]

There's your thing. They did realize that you'd have to be defeated for it to work unless your sphere also split up,  because it's merely the reality. A third sphere when there is a dominant grouping and just another smaller sphere does nothing and is an easy target at a time of your choosing. They felt sufficiently threatened by your group to make common cause and it was the rational decision.  Pretty sure it was explained to you how people were seeing it as a coin flip of which of NPO/TC or Rose/VE/SK to hit first to roll the other after. Not surprising it was an easy decision given how you were all so open about your intentions.

 

I don't recall sharing my intentions with you. You're the one who has the incredibly narrow view that there's nothing else someone could possibly do in my situation.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Manthrax

[LordRahl2]

The 3rd sphere was real. To be frank, as we didn't get back together until like a week or so ago, it really hobbled us in terms of prep as the prior efforts to coordinate militarily were all wiped out by the split.

 

The evidence is pretty clear with Alpha having to bulk up as until a week ago, we just expected to get steamrolled with no chance at conventional, so they were just going with full nuclear.

Yeah, I gave the alternative to using the "3rd sphere BS" to pull away your enemies.

[Roquentin]

I don't recall sharing my intentions with you. You're the one who has the incredibly narrow view that there's nothing else someone could possibly do in my situation.

Yeah, I didn't account for "get my big inactive ally rolled by TEst so Alpha can take a beating" option. You really got me.

 

It's not about you as you were also told. Your allies were pretty frank about it. "Hope for a better peformance. I look forward to fighting you." the day of the split from a second in command.

[SoS]

Real, in the sense that it was not intended to be defacto paracov.

 

We in SK did believe that no matter whom we allied or even if we had gone paperless, that tS would hit us for dropping them. Right or wrong, that was the belief. We never had a plan to hit Syndisphere. We just knew that war was inevitable. The fact we were prepared (almost) to preempt should validate the truth of what I'm saying. Had this been planned, we would have successfully preempted. The logic in your preempt is as clear to us as it is to you.

 

I'm not going to give up on a third sphere so easily.

[Spaceman Thrax]

Yeah, I didn't account for "get my big inactive ally rolled by TEst so Alpha can take a beating" option. You really got me.

 

It's not about you as you were also told. Your allies were pretty frank about it. "Hope for a better peformance. I look forward to fighting you." the day of the split from a second in command.

 

So the CB is a joke from a second in command a month or so ago? NOW you tell me.