Syndicate Declaration of Actually Making Declarations

[Mikey]

5. You personally put in effort for certain. But lets face it brooklyn: We're at war and this one was *not* initiated by tS. It was planned an coordinated by SK alongside a coalition of paracov. That in itself *directly* contradicts all the claims yo made to us in query when you tried to amiably part. On the latter part of your point: I have not stated any judgement on your capacity to win a war, nor on your manipulative abilities. That one's entirely irrelevant and you should probably drop it because it does not add any

 

 

Contrary to what you and others seem to think, we had no part in planning or shaping this conflict, and we really haven't been gunning for you all these months. Gandalf obviously has his hate-boner, nobody can deny that. But, much as I know none of you will believe it, we honestly were trying to break off and do something different when we tried putting together a third sphere. If we were going to stay apart of this bipolar dynamic there would be no reason to leave one side for the other, especially when we were leaving the dominant one. That things turned out this way is unfortunate, but it isn't the case that we have had this devious plan to turn on t$ beginning with the Alpha leaks.

 

I'm not trying to dodge our responsibility for this conflict. We may not have orchestrated it, but we chose to join it and our treaty does not technically force us to enter. We did plan to take the first strike against you, although frankly I find that more intellectually honest than the sadly common practice of waiting for counters and then activating an MDP in "defense." We are at war, can't pretend otherwise.

 

But from seeing the posts from everyone and talking to various people, and I cannot help but see that we both seem to have these mutual suspicions about one another that are likely not borne out in reality. It's too bad and ironically they probably proved self-reinforcing

Edited September 14, 2016 by Mikey

[Eumirbago]

Contrary to what many seem to think, we had no part in planning or shaping this conflict, and we really haven't been gunning for you all these months. Gandalf obviously has his hate-boner, nobody can deny that lol. And I'm not trying to dodge our responsibility for this conflict. We chose to join in this when our treaty does not force us to, its true, and we chose to attempt a first strike (though I think its more intellectually honest then waiting for you to hit Rose and claiming we are "defending" them per a treaty). But from speaking with people I know on all sides and seeing the posts every one is making, it seems to me there are a lot of mutual suspicions on both sides about each others intentions that may not be borne out by reality. Which is unfortunate and ironically probably ended up being self-reinforcing when we both took precautions to mitigate them, and now here we are.

Congratulations, you guys played yourselves

 

We had no suspicions and we knew this shit was going down since Keegoz came into our embassy and when Gandalf was placed back into gov. Thought it would take another month, but strategic planning is non-existent on your side so we don't really mind when it happens lmfao.

 

To all the people who planned this war on your side, give them a massive L and never let them plan another war again lmfao.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Jacob Moore

[Buorhann]

That is some of the funniest denial shit I've ever read.  Second to the whole "We have no bad feelings towards Pantheon" shtick.

[Brooklyn666]

yay I baited someone into world walls!

 

BREAKDOWN

 

 

No seat needed. I'm a snake.

 

There has been no point where I said anything about you needing to 'bow your head' or 'say nice things'. Neither did we ever 'disown you' or treat you as your 'overlord'. The notion is laughable and idiotic. Quit the charade. We both know that you do not even support that notion yourself- you expressed as much in query, weeks ago.

 

When you !@#$ed up and pissed us off, we talked it out and moved on. You then cancelled on us and plotted (and executed) a coalition war against us. Now you claim that we disowned you? Bullshit, Brooklyn. Don't even try to play this whole 'booh evil overlord' rhetoric with me. It's silly.

 

1. It matters exactly because of your post just now. Some of you have driven the narrative (in private and/or public) that tS has somehow wronged you. I see the history of SK !@#$ ups and us working it out as direct evidence to the contrary and will therefore consistently present it when any within SK bemoan the position they currently find themselves in.

2. We won despite you, not because of you. I do not see how us winning in any way negates the breach of trust. We were angry about it. We didn't drop you nor roll you, because we did not want to dictate your internals to you and because you were our ally- shit happens. You try to work it out. Thing is, as allies we interpreted it as mishaps- inexperience perhaps. In light of your recent actions, it looks a bit more coordinated and deliberate. Or do you disagree that it seems suspicious?

3. Word. At least we agree on something.

4. What delusions have we had with regards to SK? We did all we could to part without bullshit. Your own high govt member went around bullshitting us throughout his tenure. First thing coming from Gandalf's mouth when you cancelled on us was a bunch of 'OMG hegemoney LELELEL' stuff. How exactly do you expect us to interpret that, along with other hostility? Let's stick to the SK-tS relationship here. I'll be interested in hearing your answer.

5. You personally put in effort for certain. But lets face it brooklyn: We're at war and this one was *not* initiated by tS. It was planned an coordinated by SK alongside a coalition of paracov. That in itself *directly* contradicts all the claims yo made to us in query when you tried to amiably part. On the latter part of your point: I have not stated any judgement on your capacity to win a war, nor on your manipulative abilities. That one's entirely irrelevant and you should probably drop it because it does not add any value to the discussion at hand.

6. Everyone plays the game in a different way. Who are you to make me change the way I play it? . If you're going to put out a PR narrative (lol tS pre-empted us), it's silly to call out the response because 'lel its just a game'. We all know it is. We also all know that that's irrelevant. This type of callout is usually not much more than a hollow 'no u'.

7. Hey look, agreement!

8. You personally? Agreed. Others in SK? Disagreed.

9. And again: my opinion =/= tS policy. With that said: I've always looked at the bigger picture/surrounding circumstances when assessing a situation. In this case? I view you as a defacto aggressor by virtue of your political manouvers and military intentions coupled with already conducted military strikes by clear coalition partners. 

 

Simply put: If you have two forces with each 3 regiments (e.g. blue and red): Regiment R1 and R2 hit regiment B1 and B2. Regiment B3 sees what's happening and sees regiment R3 taking aim. Regiment B3 pre-empts R3. Who is the aggressor? To me? The broader coalition of R.

 

10.This is yet another idiotic brainfart stemming from the irrational delusion that you are somehow 'breaking the mold' or 'doing something different'. You switched sides. That's all. We do no care about you 'doing something different', or even 'cancelling on us'.  What we do care about is you literally planning and executing a war against us and our allies on a coalition-wide scale. Are you really going to shift the cause for our grievance from 'you literally went to war against us and our allies' to 'ITS BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO SOMEHING DIFFERENT'? Bullshit spin.

 

Whether you succeed or fail is entirely irrelevant to how we should treat you. You sacked up and came at us. Now we're simply doing our thing. You're right: You're not an existential threat. You are however an adversary. Simple and clear. Your member count is equally irrelevant.

 

Subtext, man. No, you didn't "literally" say that, and you didn't "literally" 'disown us', but I'm not Amelia Bedelia so I'm capable of deriving non-literal meaning from words and broader discussions. And whatever I said in query, you've already accused me of lying about everything else, so I'm not sure why you think *that* part would be the one thing that was true. Sounds like there's some cognitive dissonance going on.

 

1. No one is bemoaning anything. We own our mistakes. I told Manthrax several weeks ago we were prepared for the large chance that this would happen to us. As for driving narratives, this may surprise you, but not everyone in SK thinks or feels the same way about things, and people are free to talk about what they want. That doesn't make it our policy. All this "direct evidence to the contrary" e-lawyering is beneath you.

 

2. You're clearly still angry about it. And no I don't agree. Every time I talk to you you push back the date that we allegedly started plotting against you even further, so it makes for a good story for you, but it doesn't even hold its own internal logic. At some point we'll have created SK just to take down a tS that didn't even exist yet.

 

3. Yep.

 

4. See #2

 

5. It was planned and initiated by Rose and we rolled in because 1. they're our allies and 2. we knew you would pre-empt us anyway because we are Rose allies even if we didn't plan on it. I'm not upset about because that's how the game works and you shouldn't be either.

 

6. It was an invitation that you're free to decline, although I think it makes all of this a lot more unpleasant for everyone. Nothing more.

 

7. Great.

 

8. See #1

 

9. For us it's individuals expressing their opinions, for you it seems to be your MO. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like it, and I guess you're free to interpret the same for us, although I think an objective observer would see a pretty stark contrast.

 

10. You already responding to this in your follow up, but again, even if all we did was switch sides, (which wasn't our intention but turned out to be the de facto result), that's still us in a different position than before. And as predicted, your denial just makes me believe it even more.

 

- And yea, sure. I don't disagree nor did I say anything to the contrary. You're just responding to things you wish I'd said and not things I actually said.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know about living, you certainly are dying though.

 

 

What is dead may never die!

Edited September 14, 2016 by Brooklyn666

[Canik]

Nope, not from you. Then again, I don't expect much from pacificans besides inferior ability so that isn't much of a surprise. 

 

I swear we just mollywhopped you lightweight pacificans not too long ago?

Didn't say it would be by us. Don't care, still going to love seeing tS KO'ed. But go ahead and focus on it not being us that KO'ed you and that you beat us in our 1st war ever, where you got the 1st strike.. if that makes you feel better. Oh and you had BK's help too. Good job you & BK together beat a new alliance. *slow claps*

[Tali]

Didn't say it would be by us. Don't care, still going to love seeing tS KO'ed. But go ahead and focus on it not being us that KO'ed you and that you beat us in our 1st war ever, where you got the 1st strike.. if that makes you feel better. Oh and you had BK's help too. Good job you & BK together beat a new alliance. *slow claps*

But you have plenty of experienced membs fam. Remember Vanguard? There in NPO now and they are experienced and have been in a war. Not t$'s fault they know how to war and you chosen allies who don't considering from what I heard, NPO is decent in a war so logically your allies have caused u to fail :3

 

 

>Inb4 people don't realize I'm just shitposting

Edited September 14, 2016 by Riza Hawkeye

[Eumirbago]

Didn't say it would be by us. Don't care, still going to love seeing tS KO'ed. But go ahead and focus on it not being us that KO'ed you and that you beat us in our 1st war ever, where you got the 1st strike.. if that makes you feel better. Oh and you had BK's help too. Good job you & BK together beat a new alliance. *slow claps*

Yep and we're gonna defeat you again, and again, and again, and again. This will be a constant, regardless of whether you guys strike first or not.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Jacob Moore

[Boony]

Didn't say it would be by us. Don't care, still going to love seeing tS KO'ed. But go ahead and focus on it not being us that KO'ed you and that you beat us in our 1st war ever, where you got the 1st strike.. if that makes you feel better. Oh and you had BK's help too. Good job you & BK together beat a new alliance. *slow claps*

And I'm going to love seeing the "NPO Surrenders" thread.

[Mikey]

Congratulations, you guys played yourselves

 

We had no suspicions and we knew this shit was going down since Keegoz came into our embassy and when Gandalf was placed back into gov. Thought it would take another month, but strategic planning is non-existent on your side so we don't really mind when it happens lmfao.

 

To all the people who planned this war on your side, give them a massive L and never let them plan another war again lmfao.

 

You say you had no suspicions but then go on to say you knew this would happen when Gandalf was put back into gov. So you agree you took Gandalfs actions as evidence that we were planning to betray you sometime in the future. Its not like I don't understand what it looks like given this war. I'm just saying this narrative that we have been weaving a conspiracy against you, while perhaps understandable, isn't true. I'm not trying to justify anything or get on your good sides or whatever you think I'm doing. In the end we found out what was coming and made a conscious choice to enter into it. But if you were to secretly get access to our forums at the beginning of the month you'd find no evidence of any desire to destroy you or whatever you think it is we have been trying to achieve lately.

 

That is some of the funniest denial shit I've ever read.  Second to the whole "We have no bad feelings towards Pantheon" shtick.

 

What, that believe it or not we haven't been a den of intrigue, planning months in advance to backstab t$? There clearly isn't much point in responding much further because I know well how deadset in this belief many people are, which is funny because it is the same suspician I have seen many of your opponants derrided for (and also disagree with). I'm not denying we are at war. I am not denying that, once we were made aware of the coming conflict, we chose, on our own, to join it. I'm not masking anything because the fact we are here proves our intent to do so. I am just saying it was a recent development and not part of some longstanding plan to !@#$ you over.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Mikey

[Eumirbago]

You say you had no suspicions but then go on to say you knew this would happen when Gandalf was put back into gov. So you agree you took Gandalfs actions as evidence that we were planning to betray you sometime in the future. Its not like I don't understand what it looks like given this war. I'm just saying this narrative that we have been weaving a conspiracy against you, while perhaps understandable, isn't true. I'm not trying to justify anything or get on your good sides or whatever you think I'm doing. In the end we found out what was coming and made a conscious choice to enter into it. But if you were to secretly get access to our forums at the beginning of the month you'd find no evidence of any desire to destroy you or whatever you think it is we have been trying to achieve lately.

 

 

What, that believe it or not we haven't been a den of intrigue, planning months in advance to backstab t$? There clearly isn't much point in responding much further because I know well how deadset in this belief many people are, which is funny because it is the same suspician I have seen many of your opponants derrided for (and also disagree with). I'm not denying we are at war. I am not denying that, once we were made aware of the coming conflict, we chose, on our own, to join it. I'm not masking anything because the fact we are here proves our intent to do so. I am just saying it was a recent development and not part of some longstanding plan to !@#$ you over.

Bahahahaha, the next few wars are now set thanks to the stupidity of whoever planned this war hahahaha. Tell Gandalf and Keegoz to hold massive Ls along with the strategic planners.

[Buorhann]

What, that believe it or not we haven't been a den of intrigue, planning months in advance to backstab t$? There clearly isn't much point in responding much further because I know well how deadset in this belief many people are, which is funny because it is the same suspician I have seen many of your opponants derrided for (and also disagree with). I'm not denying we are at war. I am not denying that, once we were made aware of the coming conflict, we chose, on our own, to join it. I'm not masking anything because the fact we are here proves our intent to do so. I am just saying it was a recent development and not part of some longstanding plan to !@#$ you over.

 

You continue to say that SK never planned on !@#$ing us over, but then...

 

>Gandalf

 

C'mon Mikey.

[Mikey]

You continue to say that SK never planned on !@#$ us over, but then...

 

>Gandalf

 

C'mon Mikey.

 

I wasn't aware Gandalf was the dictator or SK. You're right, he leaked the Alpha plans, which he did without the knowledge or consent of the rest of us, and for which he was punished. I get that his suspension wasn't enough of a punishment for most of you. I'm not trying to say it should have been. We had our own internal reasons for doing so (and it wasn't to carry out some long standing master plan to turn on you) but I probably wouldn't feel much different were I in your shoes. I'm not trying to make up for that or claim the negative feelings generated by it are illegitimate.

 

Gandalf does not set policy for the Seven Kingdoms. As Master of Whispers he is in charge of handling our day to day diplomacy and running the department, true. By tradition all major issues are discussed thoroughly in the Small Council in an attempt to get consensus (I believe many others act this way in practice) and by law he needs the consent of the King and a few other SC members to make any major decisions or set official policy. None of our other government have expressed or felt any ill will towards t$ or its allies. Gandalf himself, to my knowledge, has not even called for any aggressive action against you, no doubt in part because he knows it would have found little support in the alliance.

 

Look, we are at war. We learned of the war and chose to be apart of it. We are enemies and that was a conscious act, nobody is trying to claim we ended up here any other way. But this idea that you have all "known" for months about some longstanding SK scheme to get to this point cannot be more off the mark.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Mikey

[Buorhann]

Punishment must be weird at Seven Kingdoms.  Promoting him to head of FA sure does sound like punishment. ( Or are we talking the "suspension from alliance channels"?  !@#$ing LEL )

 

Seriously, ever since SK backed out of the war without letting their allies know ahead of time - you guys have been doing some shady shit.  Let's stop with this front you're trying to prop up with.

 

It's cool.  You jumped to join up with Paracov.  We're at war.  We can leave it at that, but denying the fact that you had no clue this was happening or denying that SK didn't plot against us - please.  Just... stop.

[Kastor]

I miss Tenages

[Mikey]

Punishment must be weird at Seven Kingdoms.  Promoting him to head of FA sure does sound like punishment. ( Or are we talking the "suspension from alliance channels"?   !@#$ LEL )

 

Seriously, ever since SK backed out of the war without letting their allies know ahead of time - you guys have been doing some shady shit.  Let's stop with this front you're trying to prop up with.

 

It's cool.  You jumped to join up with Paracov.  We're at war.  We can leave it at that, but denying the fact that you had no clue this was happening or denying that SK didn't plot against us - please.  Just... stop.

 

Gandalf was fully suspended from office and had his title temporarily stripped, he wasn't just banned from your IRC chanel. A poll was conducted among the general membership as to what his overall punishment would be, and in the end the winning vote was for a continued suspension and eventual return on the understanding that another infraction would carry severe repercussions. You don't like that. We get it. You're outraged even, we get that too, you have every right to be. Ultimately our members had their own reasons for choosing that option and we chose to abide by it. Nobody has ever said you don't deserve to be upset about that or want to drop us after his return.

It just seems that many of the same "delusions" we get laughed at for having, and which I will freely admit may have been misplaced, are equally shared on the other end. I just get a kick out of it. People on both sides convinced the other is engaged in a long term plot to undermine the other, perhaps taking steps to mitigate that, which perhaps get interpreted across the aisle as proof of those assumptions, leading to a self fulfilling cycle. Kind of analogous to real politics in a sad-yet-funny way.

 

Anyways I'm not trying to spark some broad argument about who's fault this is or what. I am not, nor have I, argued that your side are somehow responsible for this or that we didn't plan to enter the conflict. We learned of the war, chose to enter and fight you, so in that regard I agree we planned to attack you. I just don't agree that it goes further back than that, that we had some long standing prior plot to do so. You won't believe me, and its not like I don't understand how this looks from the outside so I won't push.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Mikey

[Flame of the Flawed]

And whatever I said in query, you've already accused me of lying about everything else, so I'm not sure why you think *that* part would be the one thing that was true. Sounds like there's some cognitive dissonance going on.

 

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, in the above you are essentially acknowledging that either you yourself also have cognitive dissonance, or that you are lying. Unless that is of course your are accusing Partisan of lying on this part, which you didn't do in the prior response so I am assuming that is not the case, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You say you had no suspicions but then go on to say you knew this would happen when Gandalf was put back into gov. So you agree you took Gandalfs actions as evidence that we were planning to betray you sometime in the future. Its not like I don't understand what it looks like given this war. I'm just saying this narrative that we have been weaving a conspiracy against you, while perhaps understandable, isn't true. I'm not trying to justify anything or get on your good sides or whatever you think I'm doing. In the end we found out what was coming and made a conscious choice to enter into it. But if you were to secretly get access to our forums at the beginning of the month you'd find no evidence of any desire to destroy you or whatever you think it is we have been trying to achieve lately.

 

Mikey, I like your replies. You seem like a fairly level headed guy, so I am going to give you this friendly advice. Never try to rationalize Eumir's/Jacob's baiting/trolling

 

...yet his war predictions always do seem to come true, haha. 

 

I appreciate your seeming sincerity, and your admission that SK was indeed already planning to hit t$, as was adamantly denied by much of SK gov after Vald also said the same as you. Your lack of bs is pleasing.

 

[Brooklyn666]

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, in the above you are essentially acknowledging that either you yourself also have cognitive dissonance, or that you are lying. Unless that is of course your are accusing Partisan of lying on this part, which you didn't do in the prior response so I am assuming that is not the case, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

What? I literally have no idea what you're talking about. This doesn't make any sense.

[Ole]

- In Valdoroth's first war (168), you took early peace after randomly hitting NAC and prompting UPN to come in.

!@#$ you, Jessica orderd that hit, to relive some of you'r guys. That shit is not On SK, its On you.

 

PS we are still friends.

[Boony]

!@#$ you, Jessica orderd that hit, to relive some of you'r guys. That shit is not On SK, its On you.

 

PS we are still friends.

Nah bruh. That was SK who !@#$ed up.

[Brooklyn666]

Nah bruh. That was SK who !@#$ed up.

 

tl;dr of this entire thread: "no u" ad nasueum

[Boony]

tl;dr of this entire thread: "no u" ad nasueum

No its just you guys doing that

[Ole]

Nah bruh. That was SK who !@#$ed up.

I got my orders from Jessica, i asumed This was ok'ed by SK gov so i attacked.

When it was noticed i was reprimanded for not dubble checking with SK gov.

Remeber, i was there, why else would i stick my nose in This?

[Boony]

I got my orders from Jessica, i asumed This was ok'ed by SK gov so i attacked.

When it was noticed i was reprimanded for not dubble checking with SK gov.

Remeber, i was there, why else would i stick my nose in This?

*shrugs*

 

SK guys wanna shed light on this? Human memory isn't great, but I remember SK giving a bad order

[Ole]

*shrugs*

 

SK guys wanna shed light on this? Human memory isn't great, but I remember SK giving a bad order

If they keep it, i think most of it is On their forum.

But i've told my story 😂 ill leave you to you'r argument now

[Kastor]

I got my orders from Jessica, i asumed This was ok'ed by SK gov so i attacked.

When it was noticed i was reprimanded for not dubble checking with SK gov.

Remeber, i was there, why else would i stick my nose in This?

The Syndicate is never wrong Ole. Remember?