Doktor Avalanche Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Alliances have leaders? 1 Quote Beer. Damn Good Beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think an alliance that has a mix of the two work the best, but that involves a group of members that can be trusted. You need a leader or two that steer the ship and can make split decisions in the face of danger. But you also need the grounds of loyalty and trust for those leaders to stand on, meaning it needs to not only feel like they're capable of filling that role but also the fact that if they should on day not they can be replaced. I think it's important to have an alliance where anyone can voice their grievances and ask for a new leader, without being in the government or being the vice president. Having a community like that takes time and risks that not everyone think is worth taking though. Quote It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Targaryen Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I played in a few of democratic alliances and a lot of dictatorial alliances, I've seen democracies usually fall apart due to lack of trust between players from the same alliance (as they usually compete with each other most of the time) and I've seen some huge alliances succeed with pseudo-democratic government as well. I believe it has to do with the way democracy is constructed. A restricted democracy is always good in my opinion, but whatever the government type is, it is very important for the members to feel that the alliance is their own and not a property of the leader or a few people. The later will usually make people leave the alliance or stay there without loyalty to the alliance. How welcoming an alliance is, depends on how active the community is, irrespective of whether it is a democracy or a dictatorship. And in alliances like Mensa, if their leader is asking for public opinion before taking important decisions and considers every point, then that serves the purpose of democracy. I don't know how other democratic alliances here are designed, but in our alliance, democracy is restricted to only internal matters and not for foreign affairs and democracy is generally suspended during war period. Unlike popular notion regarding democracies, we can take decisions within 12-18 hours or so (depending on which time of the day it is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Lannister Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Your thread stopped making any sense the moment you called Arrgh a dictatorship. Members can by popular vote dismiss the grand admiral and then vote on who they want there. I don't know how it can get more democratic. Plus most of the important things concerning the alliance are put to vote and there's a lot of transparency on what's going on up top. Avoid passing statements when you've zero idea in reality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Is that what your govs told you? Huh, good thing I left after the election then No they did not. That's a ridiculous statement, honestly. Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassili Dovgan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 We're both a democracy and a dictatorship. In my experience, this works very well and the people are happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek26 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 No they did not. That's a ridiculous statement, honestly. Well, then where did you come up with your stupid assertion that she left when the going got tough. She stayed the entire war, and did a ton more damage and was far more effective than you were, despite being targeted as a good player. She only left after your recent elections, so if things are still 'rough,' that's all on you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 lol Vanek, don't mind him and his cute assertion. It just strikes me as ironic that despite UPN members boast themselves being democratic alliance, a lot of their members are very close to being clueless about the internal happenings of their own alliance, and most of the time the biggest decisions were decided by only a handful of people without ever really consulting the rest of the alliance. Really, I wonder which alliance is the true dictatorship here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stujenske Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Can't have a democratic alliance in this game. Quote <insert signature here> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Well, then where did you come up with your stupid assertion that she left when the going got tough. She stayed the entire war, and did a ton more damage and was far more effective than you were, despite being targeted as a good player. She only left after your recent elections, so if things are still 'rough,' that's all on you guys. Assertion? No, it was merely a question. I never denied her contribution during the war, I wasn't even referring to war. You did. Finally, I never said things were "still rough" and I definitely didn't say she was at fault for anything that occurred. That would be stupid of me to imply. Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 lol Vanek, don't mind him and his cute assertion. It just strikes me as ironic that despite UPN members boast themselves being democratic alliance, a lot of their members are very close to being clueless about the internal happenings of their own alliance, and most of the time the biggest decisions were decided by only a handful of people without ever really consulting the rest of the alliance. Really, I wonder which alliance is the true dictatorship here What "cute assertion" did I make? I only asked a question and your comrade called it an assertion, so I guess that's what it stands to be now. I'm not sure what's ironic about our alliance. How is it not a display of democracy being able to elect members to every government position available? It's not like we open up a few deputy positions and call it a day. Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzuya Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 So democracy is only a matter of ELECTION NOW COMRADE and everything else is superficial. Gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prezyan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) GPA! is a dictatorship Edited January 5, 2016 by Prezyan Quote Psweet> pro-tip: don't listen to baronus if Prezyan disagrees with him 5:48 AM — +Eva-Beatrice sq**rts all over the walls Eva-Beatrice> I'd let Sintiya conquer me anyday x) 10:56 PM — +Eva-Beatrice m*st*rb*tes in front of Prezyan 12:13 AM — +Eva-Beatrice has no one to !@#$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Von Dietrich Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Democracies have always been overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Democracies have always been overrated. Says the fascist, so nothing new under the sun. 1 Quote It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatkitteh Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 So democracy is only a matter of ELECTION NOW COMRADE and everything else is superficial. Gotcha I like how the same person who ran away at the alliance now complains about the alliance. Well done. Quote :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) I like how the same person who ran away at the alliance now complains about the alliance. Well done. Piss off. Atzuya helped UPN more in the Alpha than you have since you joined the game. Annnnyways. Democracies where everyone get's a say, like the ALC(which ceased to exist long ago), almost always fail. In fact, I can't think of a single alliance like that which has existed for any reasonable amount of time. Elections in the game are nearly always a popularity contest as well. Autocracies work well unless you have a supreme ruler where all decisions must go through them yet they are never active and don't want to let go of the reigns of power. Special note for Triumvirate governments which either end up with one of them taking over the government (ala GPA under Lambdadelta or Grillick) or in a situation where everything takes forever because none of them want to trample on each other to get done that which needs to be done. However, above all, Autocracies work. Edited January 6, 2016 by Metro 1 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Assertion? No, it was merely a question. Holy !@#$ you are pedantic. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Democracies have always been overrated. And yet successful despite all the criticisms. Just not in a game. 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 So democracy is only a matter of ELECTION NOW COMRADE and everything else is superficial. Gotcha I never said elections were the sole representation of a democracy, but it's definitely a key component of a democracy. I think it needs to be noted that UPN characterizes itself as a "semi-democracy." Just putting that out there. Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Holy !@#$ you are pedantic. Oh. Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac Veritas Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 What are you on about mate, Rose is basically dictatorship under glorious Emperor Cailou. I mean the charter has democratic elements to it, but in practise these serve more as guidelines. The most obvious example is the charter states we must elect an Emperor, but in practise most of the Emperors have just been picked by the previous one, usually stepping up from the position of Regent. Cailou was elected, and Angelus might have been but I can't remember. Electing or Impeaching the Emperor is the only real democratic part of Rose, all power belongs to the Emperor, and the Lords Cabinet through powers granted by the Emperor. For reference as Emperors we've had Pubstomper (Cailou I) -> Angelus -> Kurdnak -> Keegoz -- Election > Cailou II The Emperor holds basically absolute power, but the system works because of the culture of Rose. 1 Quote As you sow, so shall you reap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatkitteh Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Edited the alliances thing since you guys #@$% about it so much. Quote :sheepy: :sheepy: Greatkitteh was here.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelson Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) \_(-.-)_/ Edited January 6, 2016 by Kelson Quote https://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.mp4 You're actually reading this?"Trade-ever trade and the increasing of their fortunes- seems to have occupied their minds above all else."[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I'm not sure what's ironic about our alliance. How is it not a display of democracy being able to elect members to every government position available? It's not like we open up a few deputy positions and call it a day. So having elections to determine who gets a Gov position is a display of democracy? Well !@#$ me, Mensa is a dirty, goddam, Democratic Alliance! I didn't sign up for this shit... Quote ☾☆ Warrior of Dio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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