Islam

[Captain_Vietnam]

give me a source which defines taoism as a religion then i will accept it.

read both mine and fox fire links

[Abu Haddad]

no not dictionary a link that says with evidence taoism is a religion

[Captain_Vietnam]

no not dictionary a link that says with evidence taoism is a religion

abu

 

i posted a link to the defintion in a dictonary of religious belief which taoism comes under.

 

Edited December 6, 2015 by captain_vietnam

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

How do you think Islam should be reformed to stamp out extremism?

 

I'm going to TRY to take this seriously.

You cant

Evil people will exploit the religion

May i take the kkk as my reason 

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

i have said before age does not mean legitimacy.

anyway i thought you followed taoism which is not a religion

Taoism is a religion

As long as they worship something and have a messanger/prohet its defined as a religion

[Captain_Vietnam]

You cant

Evil people will exploit the religion

May i take the kkk as my reason 

kkk are less relevent these day

[Rozalia]

You cant

Evil people will exploit the religion

May i take the kkk as my reason 

 

Of course you can, been done before with other similar things with Catholic to Anglican for example, such a thing is simple enough for the state. First you present a reformed version of the religion with a fancy new name "X-Islam" that is also more culturally close to the state. So no religious dress you see Muslims use today, banning of it being taught in Arabic, discard some parts of the religion where needed (some writings and the Mecca pilgrimage for example), interpret certain sections in certain ways, and instill the belief of superiority over the parent religion which is bad because <insert attacks>

 

Then oppress the parent religion massively. No religious meetings allowed, religious buildings banned, additional tax, no benefits, more punishing punishments on their criminals, justice system more unfair towards them, discourage employers from hiring them, ban them from having businesses, and a general blind eye to any aggression carried out on them by the public (be it the majority or by another minority). Make children of followers of the old religion attend the new one's religious buildings to be converted more effectively. The gist of course being if they convert to the new "X-Islam" then all that goes away. If the new converts can be put in a position where they can oppress the followers of the parent religion then it becomes even more effective. 

 

They'll be hold outs, violence, and cypto-followers, but in time the parent religion should be cannibalised entirely as the young outside some extremists convert to it, people leave the country because of the oppression, and the old hold outs die out be it from old age, homelessness/sickness, or just getting popped off by some loony. 

 

A heavy hand can be far more effective than a soft one a lot of times. 

[Abu Haddad]

Islam will never be reformed. The quran and hadith are in at least 1billion minds and hearts thanks to the glory of allah the most merciful

[Abu Haddad]

I accept taoism as a religion

but only islam is the true religion.

The original Taoists shall be tested by Allah on Yawm al Qiyamah as they had not heard about Islam or the original religions and messengers of Allah the almighty

[Rozalia]

Islam will never be reformed. The quran and hadith are in at least 1billion minds and hearts thanks to the glory of allah the most merciful

 

Considering I was talking in the example of states where they are minorities and as what people think in the Islamic "heartlands" is completely irrelevant... I don't see your point. A good example here I'd think were the Jesuit efforts in China for example that in an effort to not be expelled/killed by offending the people they wanted to convert, "modified" Christianity so it allowed ancestor worship among other things which the Chinese believed in. In what I put it's the same deal though granted I'm approaching it from the angle of the government (not an outside entity) undertaking the task. Ideally it would be local Muslim scholars/teachers that'd do it by modifying Islam like how the Jesuits did in China but well... Islam has some defenses against such things so ultimately the government would have to drop the hammer.

 

Honestly I logically have never gotten the "you're not of our sect so you'll burn" mentality. Most such people were "born" into their sect by way of their parents belonging to it and programming them into believing it. You may be a Sunni and think the Shia are going to burn for their "obvious heretical beliefs", however if you were born in a Shia family then it'd be the exact opposite. Which is correct really? What does it actually matter? Does God as mighty and all knowing as he is supposed to be not able to recognise situations and reasons why someone belongs to one sect or another? Surely even if the Shia were wrong would he not see that a person born in a Shia family, in a Shia country, that has knowledge of all the evils committed by Sunnis against Shias (meaning Sunnis are hardly going to appear a good sect to convert to), that being a Shia was done deal for them? If I can recogise such things how can a supposed supreme god not do so? Sounds more like the god of ignorance the Demiurge to me if he can't work out something so simple. Then again lets say he can work it out and cares not because he arbitrarily decided screw 'em... sounds more like the god of evil the Demiurge to me.

 

So ultimately is God ignorant or evil? If he ain't either then he'll not let such trifles bother him no?

[Abu Haddad]

Allah is all-knowing 

anyone can convert to islam from any religion

Edited December 6, 2015 by Abu Haddad

[Rozalia]

Allah is all-knowing 

anyone can convert to islam from any religion

 

So he is malicious then? You'll have to expand your answer beyond that as otherwise that will be what I'll have to default to. 

 

That has nothing to do with what I talked about.

[Abu Haddad]

if you could condense your question so i can understand it

[Rozalia]

if you could condense your question so i can understand it

 

I'll try but simply giving you the question doesn't work if I don't give the background for it. Someone could likely condense it better for you though.

 

The belief Shia are not Muslim and are wrong to Sunnis (and vice versa but that isn't relevant to you). Often the sect the person follows is the one of their parents/country so ultimately if you put yourself in the Shia's shoes and were brought up in say Iran to Shia parents in a Shia country, you'd be Shia and believe it correct. Same if you were in a Sunni country obviously. So based off that it becomes quite clear that being Sunni or Shia isn't to most a choice and when propaganda for Sunnis is Shia are bad, and for Shias Sunnis are bad (and plenty of examples to point out as evidence of such) then you're unlikely to believe the other sect is correct.

Now for Allah say the Sunni are his favourite band. Is he ignorant of the conditions of the Shias that lead them to follow their sect? Or is he so malicious that he will punish people for things out of their control? This also applies to other religions but lets just use the Shia as you so often attack them.

 

As your posts lead me to believe you'll never say that god will accept "apostates/heretics/heathens" outside the obvious exceptions from before Islam, it is quite pointless to ask a question on that. Instead I'll ask the question: Is Allah ignorant, malicious, or both?

[Clarke]

In some ways I am quite similar to a religious person in that I like my fan fiction and theories. 

However religion is full of ignorance, it is frowned upon to point out plot holes and raise concerns, it wants you to blindly believe and just accept and donate to a church. 

One argument against getting rid of religion is that people would go crazy and stop being good and kind, however religious people are just as evil as non-religious people.

Islam proves more so that even when you have religion then you're just as evil, I'm not sure what period of Christianity would be most similar to the current barbaric Islam  traditions. 

Edited December 6, 2015 by Clarke

[Lannan13]

Shia and Sunni pray differently.

Do Christians accept Mormons as Christians

Catholics and Protestants pray differently, yet they are both considered Christian.

[Fox Fire]

give me a source which defines taoism as a religion then i will accept it.

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9954-islam/?p=177423

 

Religion:

noun

1.

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of theuniverse, especially when considered as the creation of a superhumanagency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritualobservances, and often containing a moral code governing theconduct of human affairs.

2.

a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreedupon by a number of persons or sects:

the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3.

the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs andpractices:

a world council of religions.

4.

the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:

to enter religion.

5.

the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6.

something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter ofethics or conscience:

to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

7.

religions, Archaic. religious rites:

painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

 

 

The word "Taoism" is used to translate different Chinese terms which refer to different aspects of the same tradition and semantic field:^[6]

1. "Taoist religion" (Chinese: é“æ•™; pinyin: dàojiào; lit. "teachings of the Tao"), or the "liturgical" aspect^[7] â€” A family of organized religious movements sharing concepts or terminology from "Taoist philosophy";^[8] the first of these is recognized as the Celestial Masters school.
2. "Taoist philosophy" (Chinese: é“家; pinyin: dàojiÄ; lit. "school or family of the Tao") or "Taology" (Chinese: é“å­¸; pinyin: dàoxué; lit. "learning of the Tao"), or the "mystical" aspect^[7] â€” The philosophical doctrines based on the texts of the I Ching, the Tao Te Ching (or Daodejing, Chinese: é“德經; pinyin: dàodéjÄ«ng) and the Zhuangzi (Chinese:莊å­; pinyin: zhuÄngzi). These texts were linked together as "Taoist philosophy" during the early Han Dynasty, but notably not before.^[9][10] It is unlikely that Zhuangzi was familiar with the text of the Daodejing,^[11][12] and Zhuangzi would not have identified himself as a Taoist as this classification did not arise until well after his death.^[12]

However, the discussed distinction is rejected by the majority of Western and Japanese scholars.^[13][14] It is contested by hermeneutic (interpretive) difficulties in the categorization of the different Taoist schools, sects and movements.^[15] Taoism does not fall under an umbrella or a definition of a single organized religion like the Abrahamic traditions; nor can it be studied as a mere variant of Chinese folk religion, as although the two share some similar concepts, much of Chinese folk religion is separate from the tenets and core teachings of Taoism.^[16] Sinologists Isabelle Robinet and Livia Kohn agree that "Taoism has never been a unified religion, and has constantly consisted of a combination of teachings based on a variety of original revelations."^[17]

Chung-ying Cheng, a Chinese philosopher, views Taoism as a religion that has been embedded into Chinese history and tradition. "Whether Confucianism, Daoism, or later Chinese Buddhism, they all fall into this pattern of thinking and organizing and in this sense remain religious, even though individually and intellectually they also assume forms of philosophy and practical wisdom."^[18] Chung-ying Cheng also noted that the Daoist view of heaven flows mainly from "observation and meditation, [though] the teaching of the way (dao) can also include the way of heaven independently of human nature".^[18] In Chinese history, the three religions of Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism stand on their own independent views, and yet are "involved in a process of attempting to find harmonization and convergence among themselves, so that we can speak of a 'unity of three religious teaching' (sanjiao heyi)".^[19]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism#Categorization

Edited December 6, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Abu Haddad]

-snip-

well allah is god and god is most merciful but god is most harsh in punishment.

If a shia didnt follow true islam allah will test them on yawn al qiyamah as well as anyone who didnt know about islam

[Abu Haddad]

Fox Fire I accept Taoism as a religion and respect its followers.

 

Clarke. In the quran it tells us to treat women fairly, only to fight against this who oppress and kill us (muslims) there is nothing wrong with other religions.

There are hadeeths that tell us that kindness to animals is a virtue. While you are calling Islam barbaric and uncivilised i will answer you in a simple and kind manner. Muslims are the most civilised people one earth. But many muslims have peverted from the true faith. at 1000 AD Cordoba(part of Al-Andalus which I'm from) in Spain they had sewers and tap water whilst Europe was a pile of shit

Edited December 6, 2015 by Abu Haddad

[Lannan13]

In some ways I am quite similar to a religious person in that I like my fan fiction and theories. 

However religion is full of ignorance, it is frowned upon to point out plot holes and raise concerns, it wants you to blindly believe and just accept and donate to a church. 

One argument against getting rid of religion is that people would go crazy and stop being good and kind, however religious people are just as evil as non-religious people.

Islam proves more so that even when you have religion then you're just as evil, I'm not sure what period of Christianity would be most similar to the current barbaric Islam  traditions. 

Not so, if you ever read the works of many theologians then you'll see that one can find God through Doubt. One can't really call themselves a Christian if they haven't questioned their faith and their practices. Almost like that of the political relm. You cannot simply call yourself a Republican or Democrat without actually looking at your own beliefs first. Though your parents may be Republicans you may be a Democrat. Yet many people vote Republican since their parents were. 

 

I would have to guess much during the MIdevel times. During this period of Christendom there was a great period of having to follow the church without question. That's why there was such a shake down of the church during the Reformation under Luther. Though one can even increase this amount of intollerance to the Enlightenment as well considering the Catholic Church passed the Syllabus of Errors.

[durmij]

Abu Haddad, I have some question on the mechanics of the "72 virgins" thing if you don't mind.

 

First of, where do these virgins come from?

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

Abu Haddad, I have some question on the mechanics of the "72 virgins" thing if you don't mind.

 

First of, where do these virgins come from?

I can answer that

There is no such thing

 

Its a fake hadith kind of like a guy going

My brother's friend's sister's mechanic's barber's mother's ex's goat's owner said that if we die we get 72 virgins

While stuff like "no one shall bare the burden of another" came from the Prophets close companions that first hand said it.

 

In other words people dying for 72 virgins are getting nothing

[Clarke]

Not so, if you ever read the works of many theologians then you'll see that one can find God through Doubt. One can't really call themselves a Christian if they haven't questioned their faith and their practices. Almost like that of the political relm. You cannot simply call yourself a Republican or Democrat without actually looking at your own beliefs first. Though your parents may be Republicans you may be a Democrat. Yet many people vote Republican since their parents were. 

 

I would have to guess much during the MIdevel times. During this period of Christendom there was a great period of having to follow the church without question. That's why there was such a shake down of the church during the Reformation under Luther. Though one can even increase this amount of intollerance to the Enlightenment as well considering the Catholic Church passed the Syllabus of Errors.

That's really raising questions within the realm of the already existing ignorance.

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

There is no religion of peace even Islam

There are only evil people who take snips of scriptures and use it as an excuse

Lists of religions that kill (they arent true believers but here is a list of religions used as an excuse)

Islam

Christianity

Hinduism

Judaism

Buddhism

EVERY RELIGION EVER CREATED
lets not forget Atheists who killed people

Stalin

Mao

Hitler

 

Belief in god or ANYTHING is motivation enough

People kill people

Guns dont change it

Religions doesnt change it

People will kill and evil will exist so long as we have free-will to chose between good and evil 

[durmij]

lets not forget Atheists who killed people

Stalin

Mao

Hitler

 

Fair point, but Hitler should not be on that list. He had a weird mix of Catholicism and Occultism going on.