[Peace] Moving Forward

[Daveth]

52 minutes ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Just to get this straight, its ok when you waited what like over a year to do this, but not ok if someone else does this?  Interesting.

If you want to perpetuate a cycle of hate over something they've just been properly punished for, after a long time of dodging the consequences, that's on you mate.

Don't expect us to support that, though. 

[Michael Gary Scott]

4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Just to get this straight, its ok when you waited what like over a year to do this, but not ok if someone else does this?  Interesting.

They were just punished for it

Edited October 25, 2021 by Michael Gary Scott

[Sval]

4 hours ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

Just to get this straight, its ok when you waited what like over a year to do this, but not ok if someone else does this?  Interesting.

You'd have to ask Camelot about that. They wanted us to recognise their sovereignty

Edited October 25, 2021 by Sval

[Aglet Guyn]

19 hours ago, Daveth said:

 

That being the case, it is our belief that any Alliance or individual who hits Camelot for these reasons are merely taking advantage of a sovereign alliance and treading the line between normalcy and what IQ/Opus Dei attempted to do by driving players away from the game.

What'd they do?  Force people to watch Reward Ads?  Make them play baseball?   Make them buy Pirate Economy?

I can see wrecking an alliance-- for example, if someone was constantly beiged they might go join an alliance with a good Milcom, or go get a black flag-- but how do you drive someone away from this game?   (That is, without forcing them to read the salt on the OWF and go 'what happy people!  Yes this is for me!')

[Cherise]

14 hours ago, Arln said:

The fact peace was refused by the losing side for so long is mind boggling. At a certain point you should just disband and join BK

Most of the active and competent members of Camelot left for TCW, leaving a skeleton crew in Camelot.

 

Camelot was able to deny, beyond daily damage (which was pitiful, tbh), at least 700 million in daily income to Nexus over a span of like, what, 20 days after the main war ended? That'd come out to 14 billion additional damage.

 

I honestly am quite disappointed Keshav wouldn't come back, though. With his skills, I'm sure the war could have lasted another 90 days.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Cherise

[Arln]

9 hours ago, Cherise said:

Most of the active and competent members of Camelot left for TCW, leaving a skeleton crew in Camelot.

 

Camelot was able to deny, beyond daily damage (which was pitiful, tbh), at least 700 million in daily income to Nexus over a span of like, what, 20 days after the main war ended? That'd come out to 14 billion additional damage.

 

I honestly am quite disappointed Keshav wouldn't come back, though. With his skills, I'm sure the war could have lasted another 90 days.

Dragging a war out and keeping your members crushed isn't a victory. It's not even something I would brag about.

[Cherise]

4 hours ago, Arln said:

Dragging a war out and keeping your members crushed isn't a victory. It's not even something I would brag about.

By the same logic, no alliance would ever go to war, other than perhaps the raider alliances, as wars are unprofitable. There's more to the game than pixels, man.

[Spukey]

On 10/24/2021 at 6:31 PM, Daveth said:

Black Knights (Superchola-X, not to be confused with this alliance)

[Arln]

15 hours ago, Cherise said:

By the same logic, no alliance would ever go to war, other than perhaps the raider alliances, as wars are unprofitable. There's more to the game than pixels, man.

It’s not just the pixels though. Camelot literally couldn’t move or breathe for like 3 months or however long it was. Lmao. I was laughing about this war going on as long as it did. I could make a one man micro and declare war on TKR and then refuse peace for 6 months and brag about it I guess.(with love to @Benfroand @BigMorf

Edited October 27, 2021 by Arln

[Cherise]

1 hour ago, Arln said:

It’s not just the pixels though. Camelot literally couldn’t move or breathe for like 3 months or however long it was. Lmao. I was laughing about this war going on as long as it did. I could make a one man micro and declare war on TKR and then refuse peace for 6 months and brag about it I guess.(with love to @Benfroand @BigMorf

I did something like that to a micro a while back, tbh. I actually find this style of gameplay exhilarating, and it's one of the reasons I'm critical of Camelot's recent war performance.

 

Camelot was only rolled for about 7 weeks, TBH. I'd go mention something about TKR's war strategy (and relative success) in Knightfall, but it's getting late.

[Thalmor]

On 10/25/2021 at 9:48 PM, Cherise said:

I honestly am quite disappointed Keshav wouldn't come back, though. With his skills, I'm sure the war could have lasted another 90 days.

This is easily the most progressive peace deal in the history of the game. Never in Politics and War has the losing side lost so hard and yet get so many terms beneficial to it. There was nothing else to be gained by dragging the war out longer. All that would've done is hamper Camelot's economic recovery and development.

[Kevanovia]

3 hours ago, Cherise said:

Camelot was only rolled for about 7 weeks, TBH. I'd go mention something about TKR's war strategy (and relative success) in Knightfall, but it's getting late.

Isn’t that the one where the whole game ganged up on them and they still dealt out some massive damage?

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

1 hour ago, Kevanovia said:

Isn’t that the one where the whole game ganged up on them and they still dealt out some massive damage?

Yes, that is what happens when the winning side drags out a war for 4 months that they could have ended after a month.  It gives the other side 3 extra months if they dont give up, to nuke infra or do extreme down declares while taking minimal extra damage, since they have taken most of the damage they are going to take.

[Cherise]

2 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

Isn’t that the one where the whole game ganged up on them and they still dealt out some massive damage?

Mainly because TKR had huge warchests backing them, one, two, TKR was actually competent that war.

 

The meta also changed so that the tactics TKR used (raiding, 1-shipping) no longer worked in the present meta as max-mil etc is now normative with planestrat being dead or near-dead, meaning that there's too much mil floating around for targets to be raidable.

 

From what I heard, TKR's goals were to toughen up the alliance, but unfortunately for them, there's only so much damage a given alliance can take, and when not-IQ / Opus Dei smashed through the KERCHTOG$++ coalition, TKR broke in the subsequent war.

 

TKR, in general, was relatively easy to suppress in the later stages of Roqpocalypse, while Rose, ironically, was substantially more of a headache.

 

As an aside toward TKR goals, certain parties (including myself) believed that the extension of the war was intended (and if you were there, TKR was the one screaming no-surrender) to put in the diplomatic groundwork for the subsequent war. The only problem with that was that, if you talk to the more honest parties of the KERCHTOG$++ coalition, Roqpocalypse could have been considered at best a pyrrhic victory, so extending the war backfired on TKR in that case.

 

However, I don't think anyone would say TKR did not perform well that war, just as even people sympathetic to Camelot would insist that Camelot underperformed, and that Hollywood was an utter mess last war.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Cherise

[Sweeeeet Ronny D]

45 minutes ago, Cherise said:

Mainly because TKR had huge warchests backing them, one, two, TKR was actually competent that war.

 

The meta also changed so that the tactics TKR used (raiding, 1-shipping) no longer worked in the present meta as max-mil etc is now normative with planestrat being dead or near-dead, meaning that there's too much mil floating around for targets to be raidable.

 

From what I heard, TKR's goals were to toughen up the alliance, but unfortunately for them, there's only so much damage a given alliance can take, and when not-IQ / Opus Dei smashed through the KERCHTOG$++ coalition, TKR broke in the subsequent war.

 

TKR, in general, was relatively easy to suppress in the later stages of Roqpocalypse, while Rose, ironically, was substantially more of a headache.

 

As an aside toward TKR goals, certain parties (including myself) believed that the extension of the war was intended (and if you were there, TKR was the one screaming no-surrender) to put in the diplomatic groundwork for the subsequent war. The only problem with that was that, if you talk to the more honest parties of the KERCHTOG$++ coalition, Roqpocalypse could have been considered at best a pyrrhic victory, so extending the war backfired on TKR in that case.

 

However, I don't think anyone would say TKR did not perform well that war, just as even people sympathetic to Camelot would insist that Camelot underperformed, and that Hollywood was an utter mess last war.

For the kids out there, remember while Cherise makes posts stating things like they are well known facts, generally Cherise has no idea what they are talking about, and their posts are mostly BS and wild speculation.

[Cherise]

1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

For the kids out there, remember while Cherise makes posts stating things like they are well known facts, generally Cherise has no idea what they are talking about, and their posts are mostly BS and wild speculation.

Such as the fact that Hollywood took substantial damage last war and is mostly neutralized, right, with TKR having taken the equivalent of 5 months income damage over the past 3 wars? Time for a rematch!

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Cherise

[Evlar Ball]

On 10/25/2021 at 4:44 AM, Maia said:

wow I had to scroll down few pages to find Camelot. They went from 3rd to below 50 in ranks. No treaties. Uncertain future. If Epi won't be super active to make them survive and get up from their knees then I suppose they will start thinking about merger or will be slowly dying in Pantheon style.

Our members sold down to a low level of infra for the war and also had no military other than nukes (in general). We'll be back up to the 30, at least, pretty fast, no reason to worry.

It's not just epi either; all of our departments are staffed with active Archdukes (like myself). We may be in a very, let's say, interesting position at the moment, but we have no reason to abandon ship. We only lost 1 or 2 members during the entire war despite being outnumbered and down to nukes so I'm confident we'll have the members to pursue our goals.

[Evlar Ball]

On 10/25/2021 at 6:48 PM, Cherise said:

Most of the active and competent members of Camelot left for TCW, leaving a skeleton crew in Camelot.

 

Camelot was able to deny, beyond daily damage (which was pitiful, tbh), at least 700 million in daily income to Nexus over a span of like, what, 20 days after the main war ended? That'd come out to 14 billion additional damage.

 

I honestly am quite disappointed Keshav wouldn't come back, though. With his skills, I'm sure the war could have lasted another 90 days.

As an active and competent member of government from before TCW poached our members, I can personally attest that we didn't lose much in the realm of activity and talent. For example, my only MILCOM guy that left was someone I was going to probably fire anyway once I could replace the position. All we really lost is archdukes of IA and FA (which, I'll admit, was a bit of a blow) and a few staffers they had with them. All of our current gov were low and mid tier gov before a few people left. We may have been a bit rattled and inexperienced when the war began, which I admit some in gov were, but it wasn't a "skeleton crew".

 

Anyone that would have extended the war longer should be considered bad at their job. We got a peace deal that both sides find acceptable, and there wasn't really much more we could have honestly expected to get from extending the war longer. It's not like we'd have been able to get Nexus to surrender or pay us reparations. Our goal from the very start of the war was to end the war on terms that would allow us to move forward with Camelot's development which we achieved. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Evlamica

[Cherise]

19 minutes ago, Evlamica said:

As an active and competent member of government from before TCW poached our members, I can personally attest that we didn't lose much in the realm of activity and talent. For example, my only MILCOM guy that left was someone I was going to probably fire anyway once I could replace the position. All we really lost is archdukes of IA and FA (which, I'll admit, was a bit of a blow) and a few staffers they had with them. All of our current gov were low and mid tier gov before a few people left. We may have been a bit rattled and inexperienced when the war began, which I admit some in gov were, but it wasn't a "skeleton crew".

 

Anyone that would have extended the war longer should be considered bad at their job. We got a peace deal that both sides find acceptable, and there wasn't really much more we could have honestly expected to get from extending the war longer. It's not like we'd have been able to get Nexus to surrender or pay us reparations. Our goal from the very start of the war was to end the war on terms that would allow us to move forward with Camelot's development which we achieved. 

Hatebi would have been good on staff, and would likely have enhanced performance.

 

IMO, in theory, Camelot could have burnt Nexus to the ground (while still being rolled), but part of the issue was a question of whether Camelot burning Nexus to the ground would have been desirable.

 

As to extending the war longer; if you were actually planning to win the Nexus war and had demonstrated the IA strength needed to do so, then yeah, it would have been a good idea. Peacing out is disappointing, but your reasons for surrendering are understandable.

[Evlar Ball]

2 minutes ago, Cherise said:

Hatebi would have been good on staff, and would likely have enhanced performance.

 

IMO, in theory, Camelot could have burnt Nexus to the ground (while still being rolled), but part of the issue was a question of whether Camelot burning Nexus to the ground would have been desirable.

 

As to extending the war longer; if you were actually planning to win the Nexus war and had demonstrated the IA strength needed to do so, then yeah, it would have been a good idea. Peacing out is disappointing, but your reasons for surrendering are understandable.

Not to say that our current IA isn't figuring things out, I do agree that Hatebi was a very dutiful member of our government. Not many people in this game can run an academy like her ngl. However, she really wasn't that good with member retention or activity and mostly left that to the people that are currently our Archdukes anyway (she probably would agree to this too so not throwing shade).

We probably could have done much more damage to Nexus over a much longer period of time if that were the goal. That definitely was our position when we entered the war. Myself and much of the government, though, were happy with the peace deal that Nexus was willing to agree to and, at least in my opinion, nobody would have won if we pushed to 'punish' Nexus for declaring war on us. Like Thalmor said above, Nexus was willing to agree to a lot of provisions we asked for even though we were "losing". We were also pretty tired of war since we'd been fighting since, essentially, March (I believe); perhaps if we were fresh?

[Reg Penney]

About Time Camelot Surrendered, it's the only option to save their alliance

[Evlar Ball]

29 minutes ago, Reg Penney said:

About Time Camelot Surrendered, it's the only option to save their alliance

We could have kept fighting if it would have gained us anything. We were never interested in destroying Nexus or anything of that sort (as the defenders) either.

 

But again, we got the terms we wanted and it wasn't worth fighting longer just to get it turned into a white peace. Everyone already has their opinions about the war so getting that didn't matter. 

[Maia]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:52 AM, Evlamica said:

Our members sold down to a low level of infra for the war and also had no military other than nukes (in general). We'll be back up to the 30, at least, pretty fast, no reason to worry.

It's not just epi either; all of our departments are staffed with active Archdukes (like myself). We may be in a very, let's say, interesting position at the moment, but we have no reason to abandon ship. We only lost 1 or 2 members during the entire war despite being outnumbered and down to nukes so I'm confident we'll have the members to pursue our goals.

From what I saw you lost second in command, idk if it was more of old gov who left you but it wasn't look good. You are politically in tough situation but wish you good luck to get up off your knees!

[Evlar Ball]

On 10/29/2021 at 1:06 PM, Maia said:

From what I saw you lost second in command, idk if it was more of old gov who left you but it wasn't look good. You are politically in tough situation but wish you good luck to get up off your knees!

Thanks for the good wishes!

We lost the 2ic but he really didnt do anything more than manage the offshore bank (which is important but very simple)

 

The biggest hit was losing our Archdukes of FA and IA but we've already replaced them (and I think we have been able to improve on what left with the new batch). I think the way in which they left made it seem worse than it was; all alliances lose high gov at some point and this wasn't any different than that.

[Redneck Ant]

On 10/24/2021 at 8:31 PM, Daveth said:

 

We have had a wonderful time burning pixels and fighting Camelot, but like with all good things, it is time for this war to come to an end. And with that, we are turning a page and mutually putting an end to all our Casus Belli gathered over time up to this point, along with Nexus’ and The Syndicate’s view that Camelot had remained unpunished for their actions prior, during and after their affiliation with IQ-sphere.

That being the case, it is our belief that any Alliance or individual who hits Camelot for these reasons are merely taking advantage of a sovereign alliance and treading the line between normalcy and what IQ/Opus Dei attempted to do by driving players away from the game. We are dusting ourselves off, shaking hands and parting ways with the following terms between us:

Terms

  Reveal hidden contents

1. Camelot formally surrenders to Nexus.

2. Both parties formally agree to reset relations via also considering all Casus Belli against one another up to this point null and void.

3. Cessation of hostilities in the form of a Non-Aggression Pact, with a 6 month duration, starting from the moment the document is posted in the OWF and ending on the Day Change of the end date.

   A. Both parties mutually recognize their respective sovereignty. As such, they will not engage in or support actions such as spying, poaching, harassing, mass-messaging, which would be violating said sovereignty.
   
   B. No new wars will be declared after this post is made. Existing wars are allowed to end via beige or truce, per individual agreement between opponents.
   
   C. Any new disputes will be discussed and resolved amicably, whenever possible.

4. Camelot agrees to return to their pre-war color trade bloc, Maroon.

5. Camelot hereby formally denounces the following alliances, former members of the Opus Dei Bloc: Guardians of the Galaxy (GotG), Black Knights (Superchola-X, not to be confused with this alliance), GOONS and New Pacific Order (NPO), for their actions during NPO’s Last Time. 

6. EvilPiggyFooFoo agrees to change their Nation flag and not to appropriate any of Camelot’s flags, logos, and/or other imagery. Furthermore, no other Nexus or Syndicate member will pretend to be associated with Camelot in any form and vice-versa, including those previously mentioned.

List of Alliances covered in the NAP

  Reveal hidden contents

Camelot: Camelot, along with all affiliated offshore alliances and banks.

Nexus: House Stark, Carthago and Order of the White Rose, along with our bannermen in The Legion, Divine Phoenix Empire and Sunray 1-1.
The Syndicate: The Syndicate and The Enterprise, along with all affiliated offshore alliances and banks.

Signatories 

  Reveal hidden contents

Signed for Nexus, 
Suffer - Daveth
Elders - Asierith, Krampus and Gallant

Prime - Sval Prime 
Regent - Monkeybutt 
Legate of Foreign Affairs - Kamade 
Legate of Internal Affairs - Kabu 
Legate of Economics - Karl XVIII 
Legate of Defence - Ekrdin

The King in the North - Zygon 
Hand of the King - Darth Ataxia 
Three Eyed Raven - Samani 

Imperator - totem
Proconsul - Istandor
Consul of Foreign Affairs - David Ben-Gurion
Consul of Internal Affairs - kiwilliam
Consul of Military Affairs - Micheal Lybrand

Fleet Admirals - Jack Rackham, Church and Caboose
Vice Admirals - Milcom - Boss106, Internal Affairs - Shadow, Econ - Wyoming

Divine Emperor - JadenStar10
Grand Viceroy of the Blue Luan - christian2094

Signed for the Syndicate,
WANA, Chief Global Strategist
Gray, Chief Security Officer
Justin, Chief Financial Officer
Lucas, Chief Operations Officer

Signed for Camelot,
King - Epi 
Archduke of Military Affairs - Sigi and Evlar
Archduke of Foreign Affairs - Dabs 
Archduke of Economic Affairs - Flavee 
Archdukes of Internal Affairs - Random & Aliyan

TL;DR

Loving the tl;dr, haha