Tartarus Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 1:46 AM, Grave said: Where to even start on how much is wrong with this. Too much to bother making an equally sized or larger post just to do that really. *goes on to agree with most of the post* 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avakael Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 11:18 AM, Sweeeeet Ronny D said: One of the things I learned this war, is with the new score changes dropping score to get into range is now much harder than it used to be. With cities and projects my min score is now 4500ns. Eating nukes on attrition still only lowers your score by 40-50 points. So even eating around 30 nukes this war it only dropped my score around 1500 points which when starting around 10k is not nearly enough. Dropping military is also harder with all the military units also be worth less. I know the little guys out there cry about the power of the down declare, trust me its much harder to do now than you think. Also did you read this everyone in the world? Grumpy not good at fighting, so obviously we are not a threat, stop worrying about how to beat us, because we are easy to kill. I will say it again tho, HW power is not from its upper tier, it's from its activity, coordination and effort, atleast when compared to some of the other blocs. At C30 I was able to keep finding new targets, but it was usually bleeding edge downdeclares. At least one or two hits I had to make with less than 1 NS of wiggle room. Can't imagine even wanting to be at the absolute city count apex, there'd be nothing to do if I couldn't make the first strike. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Tartarus said: *goes on to agree with most of the post* Lot more work to explain what I disagree with than to say I agree with something that had been explained, I already mentioned the 3 things I had the most problems with and it ended up being a lengthy post in itself Edited July 7, 2021 by Grave Edit: wow grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 7:33 AM, KingGhost said: Dude what. Sorry, this reasoning is just so bad. You even acknowledge that no one actually really uses daily income to support themselves in a war in the same post because they would just get resources from the bank if they were to be beiged, since you know, that’s literally the whole point of a war chest so there’s 0 reason that you have given for just blanket beiging. the whole point of cycling is to neuter the enemy, while they are cycled their buys aren’t effective meaning every day they are being cycled you are gaining one or half a buy on them till you are full, then you keep going to make sure they don’t recover. You give them excessive beige time not only do they get time to be get to 100% strength you also allow them to get a blitz adv when leaving beige. You also are making less use of buys in total (i.e. you (and friends) are at 90% planes, you give someone 6 days of beige, after a day you are at 100% and the enemies don’t get out for 5 days till they are 100% planes. You’ve effectively missed 5 buys, given the enemy blitz advantage. For what? Lowering their income??) Also @hidude45454 quacks odds were worse, Quack didn’t have a major alliance be barely militarized. Also Rose countered within the same update which was huge. HM alone rivaled Quacks whale tier. HW obviously was able to go through Rose like paper mache and had an advantage in the whale tier. Also the counter blitz was very lack luster from Oasis. if Rose didn’t immediately counter I could maybe see an argument that the odds were close but HM recovered from the blitz fairly easily because of it. You seem to not understand that it is still longer that they have any additional resources both nation warchest and income if you aren't beiging, Secondly its not blanket beigeing, its very clear that 80-90% of those above c25 weren't going to win any non-raid wars and would have no affect on the updeclares who would start pulling people down below the beige teir, I stated at the start that the beige strategy in different teirs should be different. One of my other points is that it is not neutering a whale to beige cycle first round. They can fight 5+ rounds of war under blockade with little problem. Those 5 rounds can either last 10 days worth of wars or 25 days worth of wars. The teirs that we would be giving mass beige too are the ones who would get slotted less than an hour after leaving beige at a 4/5-1 advantage Show me one war where at that disadvantage anyone has been able to make any meaningful counter attacks (Militarilly not net damage). Your last point makes no sense at all, the only way you'd miss 5 buys is if your nations are not declaring other wars, which if they don't... i don't know what to tell you, I can't press the buttons for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 7, 2021 Share Posted July 7, 2021 (edited) On 7/6/2021 at 10:06 AM, Majima Goro said: Correct, there were two fronts - One where the war was under control and the second was where it wasn't. There was a shifting front in the middle which was the contested front. Only tier that neo-IQ had less members in was possibly the c40+ tier. C30-C40 had almost same number on both sides. C30 and below, neo-IQ effectively always had a 3 v 1 advantage at the least. What are you talking about? No one, not even the biggest whale is totally self-sufficient. Game mechanics blocks self-sufficiency. And beige cycling is never about not letting people get resources as it is always having someone on a nation to stop them from building military. I'd personally not want anyone to blockade someone while having them beige-cycled just so they can keep importing resources from the bank to be looted by the people cycling. Only time I'd want to blockade someone is when they have too much loot on them and we are cycling him. You understand "beiging" is what you are not supposed to do in a war right? Well guess what, your coalition actually did blanket beige people below c25 and lost the war in c20 tiers with a 3v1 advantage. And no, anything above c25 didn't need to overextend solely because you still outnumbered the enemy in the c25-c30 region and had almost similar numbers above that. About having more wars, this is because Immortals, Fighting Pacifists are lower tier alliances who enjoyed massively big advantages in their tier and were able to slot up people in that tier all the time and keep them slotted with orders like "Find people in range and declare". You didn't need to have proper coordination at all to do that. For the c20+ space, you did again enjoy advantages but the problem here is the people there were zeroed out and being well cycled/suppressed. The tiers where no coordination was needed was won, the tier where coordination was extremely needed was unfought, uncontested and unclaimed with no effort to change that anytime. Also I'd just like to say that winning wars isn't the goal of alliance wars-it's suppressing the enemy's military. What did I infer from your rant? 1) You have no war experience at all and this might have been your first war. 2) Seeing as you are supposedly milcom, you have no idea how to micromanage. Maybe fight in a "war" which isn't a dogpile for once so you can understand how literal shit the strategy you explained here was. Before I start replying I know this will be fun, the hate you've seethed for TI since 2019 has been laughable. First, where did I say they are fully self sufficient? just much more so than the 3 people updeclaring. Secondly my point is that its faster at the start to drain their warchest while killing infra before moving to cycling. Another strawman, what a surprise. I already mentioned before that an alliance bank will ultimately still use those resources. Whether they have to wait for one side to get semi-bored to do so is another question. Thirdly, you didn't read anything guess. TI had one of the lowest beige rates in the coalition, 5.38~% to be exact. "orders like "Find people in range and declare". You didn't need to have proper coordination at all to do that." Projecting much? that's all I've seen from the alliances you've gotten rolled with your mouth. "anything above c25 didn't need to overextend solely because you still outnumbered the enemy in the c25-c30 region and had almost similar numbers above that." Our numbers above c30 were very misleading for a number of reasons, if Hollywood focused only on fighting nations like I expected, the disputed teir would've been around c23 by the end of round 1 Btw I called the cope insults towards TI at the start "Maybe fight in a "war" which isn't a dogpile for once so you can understand how literal shit the strategy you explained here was." What an well thought out comment, because this is definitely a any situation strategy and not specifically for when you outnumber a bunch of whales /sarcasm Edited July 7, 2021 by Grave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kung Shake Sao Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 On 7/6/2021 at 5:22 AM, namukara said: -Something something here I concur with this assessment 100%. During the TCW attack there was very little coordination (not that I saw anyway), and the war consisted of me basically opening the target sheet, doing a copy paste and telling the dude trying to get a target to grab whatever they wanted at their own discretion. Obviously this war was more a struggle to find a target than anything, and we could fulfill any counters in alliance so it was rather redundant to go talk with another alliance and ask for help. When it came to Quack, I made sure (theres dms of me talking with every MA head in Rose, Camelot, TFP, and someone else I cant remember), of me looking for counters for my COTL guys during that initial Quack blitz (I owe those MA folks my life). But as soon as the whole blitz got dealt with, it became again a struggle of finding targets and just copy pasting the sheet, or looking for a target for someone myself. I very sporadically spoke with other alliance MA for counters or the such, as again they could be fulfilled in alliance, so like why bother. When the war kicked off, I thought the exact same process would happen until we got countered by Mystery and Oasis, and the first thing I did was go into Orbis Portal, and just look for TKR's server link, so that I could start working on counters and the such when the time came, and drop servers whenever I needed to speak with someone. It came out as unnecessary as I was able to interact with the entire sphere leadership within a week, it helped greatly that the Sphere Milcom channel was filled with great folks who could react and I could interact with in real time, and I certainly give my credit to that server for winning the war, because I had not seen this coalition/sphere cohesion since NPOLT (perhaps even further back). The best sort of advice I can provide is just communication, communication, communication, because things need to get done and either they get done or they dont get done and you lose. I try my best to instill on folks that initiative to go out there and find their allies and find a common way to defeat the enemy, because a lot of times folks just know their alliance and the folks in there. But those are my two cents, in case anybody attacks me, I'm very dumb as I told someone to beige their defensive war, so you can ignore everything I said here. If you're praising me, thank you for stating the obvious fact of my incredible intelligence, you're pretty smart yourself too. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 On 7/7/2021 at 5:33 PM, Grave said: You seem to not understand that it is still longer that they have any additional resources both nation warchest and income if you aren't beiging, You seem to not understand that basing your reason for not cycling to be because it will " increase the time it takes for their income can no longer support them . " is incredibly stupid since that income will matter very little for whether they will sustain the war since any decent alliance will make them build a WC and their daily income is inconsequential compared to making sure they don't have any breathing room to recover mil. On 7/7/2021 at 5:33 PM, Grave said: One of my other points is that it is not neutering a whale to beige cycle first round. They can fight 5+ rounds of war under blockade with little problem. Those 5 rounds can either last 10 days worth of wars or 25 days worth of wars. Rofl. I see now. You somehow believe "Neutering a player" is making them run out of resources. Yeah yikes, It refers to literally making a player stay at 0 Mil as any attempts to make anything meaningful should be airstriked down by his defensives. On 7/7/2021 at 5:33 PM, Grave said: The teirs that we would be giving mass beige too are the ones who would get slotted less than an hour after leaving beige at a 4/5-1 advantage This line of thinking is why your coalition line slowly got pushed down btw. Like its actually a horrible milcom take since you are somehow assuming that after days of beige letting the enemies get max mil again, somehow, players in your coalition will predict when the enemies come out of beige for a blitz and instantly catch them. By the time you catch them coming out of beige with a coordinated squad for blitzing, their blitz is done, they've done their dogfights and have probably free'd up multilple players' defensive wars so they can help their coalition mates as well. (T$ Literally did this type of fighting during Gw16 when we were given days of beige time to do damage, and it works wow! Its like its almost as if stacking beiges is bad) On 7/7/2021 at 5:33 PM, Grave said: Your last point makes no sense at all, the only way you'd miss 5 buys is if your nations are not declaring other wars, which if they don't... i don't know what to tell you, I can't press the buttons for them. 1. If you don't cycle like you were saying, this would happen as as a whole your coalition would not nearly have enough targets, if you guys even have a decent amount of extra targets like that you would either be losing extremely hard so cycling would never be an action taken, or you are literally fighting against afk players. 2. This was for conceptual purposes so you could understand why not beige cycling is bad. In a real scenario, if you have enough leeway to be missing buys due to max mil, yes you would be declaring on other nations. You can also declare on other nations without beiging your original offensives. - So my point still stands where you are overall denying their buys, the moment they double buy aircraft, You dogfight, you keep him down and useless. I made the original scenario simple so you could understand the concept I was putting through, but well. 3. You are milcom, your whole job is to press buttons for other players basically. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, KingGhost said: You seem to not understand that basing your reason for not cycling to be because it will " increase the time it takes for their income can no longer support them . " is incredibly stupid since that income will matter very little for whether they will sustain the war since any decent alliance will make them build a WC and their daily income is inconsequential compared to making sure they don't have any breathing room to recover mil. Nice misquote, you forgot to add the 'at all' there as I stated you can still bolster your warchest much better and longer than a c15 for example. You can't take away the breathing room while they still have warchest, which would be drained faster with beiging (and as I mentioned would only be granted to the lucky few of our own whales that could secure a war win and agaisnt those who have no chance of denting the advantage in the low teir in last war. 15 hours ago, KingGhost said: Rofl. I see now. You somehow believe "Neutering a player" is making them run out of resources. Yeah yikes, It refers to literally making a player stay at 0 Mil as any attempts to make anything meaningful should be airstriked down by his defensives. You have 0 situational awareness, we are talking about 3 massive updecalres here, as long as the whale can double buy there is no 'Neutering ' a player (Speaking of which how many people actually use this term primarily over "pinning" or "siting" or "holding down " ) Quote This line of thinking is why your coalition line slowly got pushed down btw. This line of thinking was the opposite of everything we did from the start. Quote Like its actually a horrible milcom take since you are somehow assuming that after days of beige letting the enemies get max mil again, somehow, players in your coalition will predict when the enemies come out of beige for a blitz and instantly catch them. Please show me where I said we would predict and catch a mass beige exit? I simply said that in the tiers we would allow beige, there is more than enough people to fight back any attempts to mass beige exit, however unlikely that has proven to be a viable tactic in action . Quote By the time you catch them coming out of beige with a coordinated squad for blitzing, their blitz is done, they've done their dogfights and have probably free'd up multilple players' defensive wars so they can help their coalition mates as well. (T$ Literally did this type of fighting during Gw16 when we were given days of beige time to do damage, and it works wow! Its like its almost as if stacking beiges is bad) Ah yes, it definitely wasn't the 4k infra nations you were hitting while getting slotted 10 seconds before turn change that you came out Please also tell me, how many meaningful mass beige exits you had. I wouldn't even mention gw16 if I was you, its living proof of the last nail in the coffin for your argument Quote 1. If you don't cycle like you were saying, this would happen as as a whole your coalition would not nearly have enough targets, if you guys even have a decent amount of extra targets like that you would either be losing extremely hard so cycling would never be an action taken, or you are literally fighting against afk players. I literally said we'd start pulling down people c25+ with updeclare cycling when the lower teirs were placated with repeated raids and we made you use your alliance warchests on those who would use them least efficiently. Quote 2. This was for conceptual purposes so you could understand why not beige cycling is bad. In a real scenario, if you have enough leeway to be missing buys due to max mil, yes you would be declaring on other nations. You can also declare on other nations without beiging your original offensives. Already replied too Quote - So my point still stands where you are overall denying their buys, the moment they double buy aircraft, You dogfight, you keep him down and useless. I made the original scenario simple so you could understand the concept I was putting through, but well. Already mentioned this is only the case when both sides have close to equal average city counts. Quote 3. You are milcom, your whole job is to press buttons for other players basically. You seem to not understand that is not some crafty metaphor, but if you are logging into your alliance members accounts and fighting for them, you should DM alex about that, heard he's giving a cash prize too whomever is using the most accounts . Edited July 9, 2021 by Grave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Grave said: *A bunch of incorrect statements* Yeah, I've determined that its actually impossible for you to learn how to milcom and I'm wasting my time trying to correct you so that TI Members stop getting screwed. Keep doing what you are doing and ignore everyone else ig. Honestly, its against my self interest to even help you so I won't anymore. Gonna Quote hidude here On 7/4/2021 at 8:49 PM, hidude45454 said: Big egos: A lot of this, simply put, I think was because there were too many people unwilling to compromise outside their own beliefs and plans. It was so difficult for people to realize their own faults and that they were targeting the wrong things that in the end lots of people clashed with each other and ended up regressing any collaborative support that would've boosted the entire coalition. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, KingGhost said: Yeah, I've determined that its actually impossible for you to learn how to milcom and I'm wasting my time trying to correct you so that TI Members stop getting screwed. Keep doing what you are doing and ignore everyone else ig. Honestly, its against my self interest to even help you so I won't anymore. Gonna Quote hidude here I'm pretty much done myself, outside of pointing out (and I already said this aswell) I spent the entire war compromising on practically every front and would say that our actual strategy was much closer to the failed strategy Hidude explained then the one I wanted to go with . P.s its rich having an alliance that hasn't had to mass updeclare in 4+ years talk to the alliance who has spent their entire existence using mass updeclares on how to mass updeclare . Edited July 10, 2021 by Grave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGhost Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, Grave said: P.s its rich having an alliance that hasn't had to mass updeclare in 4+ years talk to the alliance who has spent their entire existence using mass updeclares on how to mass updeclare . Ahahahaha Sorry, did you just somehow imply that t$ milcom is somehow worse than TI milcom. Though, I’m not sure how that really makes sense since both hidude and babai have said the same things as I have and aren’t from some obviously bad alliance like t$! On top of it all, considering our head of milcom has not “spent their entire existence” inside of t$ I’m sure he could handle something as basic as up declaring. That being said, Milcom who come from t$ can as well. Oh and if you are going to compare alliances. P.s it’s rich having an alliance widely regarded as incompetent talk to an alliance who has been regarded as competent on how to be competent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, KingGhost said: "I'm wasting my time trying to correct you" So much for that huh 1 hour ago, KingGhost said: Ahahahaha Sorry, did you just somehow imply that t$ milcom is somehow worse than TI milcom. Though, I’m not sure how that really makes sense since both hidude and babai have said the same things as I have and aren’t from some obviously bad alliance like t$! On top of it all, considering our head of milcom has not “spent their entire existence” inside of t$ I’m sure he could handle something as basic as up declaring. That being said, Milcom who come from t$ can as well. Oh and if you are going to compare alliances. P.s it’s rich having an alliance widely regarded as incompetent talk to an alliance who has been regarded as competent on how to be competent I love all the strawman arguments from you, please show me where I said T$ has a worse Milcom than TI. Or where I said that you were a bad alliance , Nice deflection from the updeclare experience comment though. Widely regarded as incompetent? " we were wrong you guys aren't bad you don't need Rose to fight us " -Parti, gw16 Not an exact quote but is the jist of what was discussed in Swamps declaration thread. Me and Hidude actually argued about extremely little, been too busy dealing with trolls *cough cough* to have a civil conversation with him BABAI aka Ant Man has been crying about TI since we killed the alliance he was in in November 2019, I can't even remember the name even because they were so small and irrelevant. P.S: Competent players stopped claiming TI is incompetent since atleast gw16 , if you still are its just a projection of your own incompetence Edited July 10, 2021 by Grave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zei-Sakura Alsainn Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Okay real talk, did this guy have ribs removed just so he could "toot his own horn" this much? Guy, literally EVERYONE here is laughing at you. Everyone. Everyone except your allies who are on about the same plane of self awareness and competence that you are. Ie; literally everyone not them, is laughing at you. You failed even basic milcom and you're here arguing and taking shots at people who passed advanced milcom and even got a goddamn masters degree. Some of them I'd even argue have straight up doctorates. And now you're gonna argue this too, but I'm not bored enough to keep responding like ghost does, so just remember this: you're the subrate frycook promoted because he never calls in a shift, to assistant manager, and you're arguing with the PhDs in whooping your ass about how best to do that. Have a nice day lol 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Dont listen to them Grave, you do you buddy! You guys are doing a great job! 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Adrienne Posted July 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2021 On 7/8/2021 at 11:47 PM, KingGhost said: 3. You are milcom, your whole job is to press buttons for other players basically. Press buttons for a man and you help him war for a day. Teach a man to press buttons and you help him war for life. 2 2 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 7/10/2021 at 6:43 AM, Grave said: So much for that huh I love all the strawman arguments from you, please show me where I said T$ has a worse Milcom than TI. Or where I said that you were a bad alliance , Nice deflection from the updeclare experience comment though. Widely regarded as incompetent? " we were wrong you guys aren't bad you don't need Rose to fight us " -Parti, gw16 Not an exact quote but is the jist of what was discussed in Swamps declaration thread. Me and Hidude actually argued about extremely little, been too busy dealing with trolls *cough cough* to have a civil conversation with him BABAI aka Ant Man has been crying about TI since we killed the alliance he was in in November 2019, I can't even remember the name even because they were so small and irrelevant. P.S: Competent players stopped claiming TI is incompetent since atleast gw16 , if you still are its just a projection of your own incompetence Nah chief, you were just a $yndicate ally. Gotta respect squad playboi. Now that TI ain’t squad, we gonna keep it a buck fitty betch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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