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Dubayoo

Did the Last War Last Long Enough?

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Every category of resource on the market has incredibly slim margins which suggests alliances have massive stockpiles banked up that aren't used. Combined with the new war mechanics that don't hurt infrastructure as much from getting beiged, there seems to be a lot more saving than what's necessary.

I remember before I came out of VM that margins were in the 100s. Now, they're rarely even 100.

Also, prices are incredibly low for manufactured goods. Typically, people are selling raws at low prices to accumulate cash. If manufactured goods are sold low for cash, that suggests warchests weren't spent enough since so much is left over to sell.

The exception atm seems to be lead, but then you look at the munitions market and it's just wtf?

Edited by Dubayoo
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A longer war would not have addressed this, it was already past the diminishing returns point.

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7 minutes ago, Auctor said:

A longer war would not have addressed this, it was already past the diminishing returns point.

To be fair, I kind of agree since TKR's side didn't have much left to destroy.

The point was TKR versus the world wasn't the best way to establish a long enough war worth fighting.

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2 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

To be fair, I kind of agree since TKR's side didn't have much left to destroy.

The point was TKR versus the world wasn't the best way to establish a long enough war worth fighting.

Building perfectly balanced wars with equal resource destruction and equal determination to continue the fight until all resources are burned is like that game we all used to play where we'd hang onto the wheelbarrow handles and hop around on just the tire.

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26 minutes ago, Auctor said:

Building perfectly balanced wars with equal resource destruction and equal determination to continue the fight until all resources are burned is like that game we all used to play where we'd hang onto the wheelbarrow handles and hop around on just the tire.

Not really sure what you're saying there.

What I'm saying is TKR should have been treated like an old dynasty in China where after it collapsed, there would be factions vying for control to replace it. Everyone doesn't know each other's savings, and no, the factions aren't perfectly balanced, but there's still some rivalry at stake.

Edited by Dubayoo
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So what you're telling us is that the market needs to be images-74.jpg

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In the past, the market corrected itself because the odds were usually on par, either by effort or numbers.

This war was pretty lopsided and overwhelmingly in favor of one side.  So there wasn’t much incentive to buy/spend.

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23 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

In the past, the market corrected itself because the odds were usually on par, either by effort or numbers.

This war was pretty lopsided and overwhelmingly in favor of one side.  So there wasn’t much incentive to buy/spend.

That's pretty much what I'm saying, yea.

The preceding war left a lot of resources on the table to spend since there wasn't much incentive to spend them.

There should be some follow-up conflict to take advantage of the opportunity at hand.

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1 hour ago, Sweeeeet Ronny D said:

I spent somewhere around 200k gas and munitions each last war, was that not enough for you?

That's plenty. It's just a shame more people didn't follow your lead.

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Not sure I ever complained about prices being too high.

If anything, high prices are good to help newcomers sell their products to get off the ground.

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12 hours ago, Dubayoo said:

Every category of resource on the market has incredibly slim margins which suggests alliances have massive stockpiles banked up that aren't used. Combined with the new war mechanics that don't hurt infrastructure as much from getting beiged, there seems to be a lot more saving than what's necessary.

I remember before I came out of VM that margins were in the 100s. Now, they're rarely even 100.

Margin contraction is the natural result of more people competing to make the same markets.  If you look at who is in the market presently, there are substantially more players interacting with it on a daily basis.

In RL we call it a healthy market.

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12 hours ago, Frawley said:

Margin contraction is the natural result of more people competing to make the same markets.  If you look at who is in the market presently, there are substantially more players interacting with it on a daily basis.

In RL we call it a healthy market.

That's exactly the problem.

If more people are competing, that means less people are using the resources they have. 

We have to remember that PnW isn't real life. It's a game of conflict. The conditions that apply for a real life healthy market are the opposite of what we want here.

It's not like we're playing Sim City or Civilization here. PnW gives no value to a thriving civilian economy during peacetime.

Edited by Dubayoo
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15 hours ago, Dubayoo said:

That's plenty. It's just a shame more people didn't follow your lead.

You realize Ronny is like 33 cities right. We're literally incapable of following his lead. I used probably around 70-80k gas/Muni each, another 60-70 of steel and like 30 of alum. 

Which I think is pretty alright for being 19 cities and only there for the first month where actual fighting occurred.

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15 hours ago, Dubayoo said:

That's plenty. It's just a shame more people didn't follow your lead.

I mean he only spent that much cause he lost the war. There was pretty much zero resistance to the winning side meaning alliances were using 10-15% of their stockpiles. High prices benefit whales more so if anything this is better for new players this way. Additionally I know several large alliances don't even interact with the market at an alliance wide level which depresses prices. 

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3 minutes ago, Akuryo said:

You realize Ronny is like 33 cities right. We're literally incapable of following his lead. I used probably around 70-80k gas/Muni each, another 60-70 of steel and like 30 of alum. 

Which I think is pretty alright for being 19 cities and only there for the first month where actual fighting occurred.

What I realize is there are other ways to spend resources aside from directly fighting. You can assign bankrolls to people in appropriate score ranges so they can deal the damage that needs to be done.

This is why I said long ago that there needs to be more proxy wars in the game. Instead of major alliances fighting directly, they should sponsor mid-tier alliances to fight for them. The goal should be influence among mid-tier alliances in order to find the most proficient players and promote them to upper-tier alliances.

Eventually, enough players will be promoted, and a clash of the titans can happen.

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26 minutes ago, Dubayoo said:

What I realize is there are other ways to spend resources aside from directly fighting. You can assign bankrolls to people in appropriate score ranges so they can deal the damage that needs to be done.

This is why I said long ago that there needs to be more proxy wars in the game. Instead of major alliances fighting directly, they should sponsor mid-tier alliances to fight for them. The goal should be influence among mid-tier alliances in order to find the most proficient players and promote them to upper-tier alliances.

Eventually, enough players will be promoted, and a clash of the titans can happen.

This would only delay wars more though? If whales can get out of war by giving 1% of their income to some mid tier nation to fight a war they'll take that deal.

 

This doesn’t even work at a rl level since big players use proxy wars to avoid conflict themseves. 

Edited by The Mad Titan
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And what's a mid tier alliance anyway? Do you mean mid tier, as in cities? Yeah let's sponsor NPO and BK god knows they're a bunch of impoverished peasants who can't afford to fight! Lol

Or do you mean alliances more like The Federation? One's which questionable leadership (I'm told in this specific instance) who'd probably break the moment they come into a competent opponent? 

I mean at that point everyone would sponsor just a few alliances. Good news for me, I think I'd rank higher than most on that list. Real good news for Nova Riata. Survived as a micro for 100+ days of war? Talk about holding the line to the bitter end. Most of these "mid tier" alliances would probably shatter if a disciplined opponent came at them.

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Proxy wars only really work in an environment where there are two equally matched sides that fear the consequences of an open confrontation with each other. The technical term for that scenario is "boring".

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4 hours ago, The Mad Titan said:

This would only delay wars more though? If whales can get out of war by giving 1% of their income to some mid tier nation to fight a war they'll take that deal.

 

This doesn’t even work at a rl level since big players use proxy wars to avoid conflict themseves. 

Really not sure how you're coming to that conclusion.

In real life, escalation settles due to internal concerns. You have democratic peace, war exhaustion, and generational change.

Those problems don't exist in FA in PnW. Whales should be racing to recruit competent people to join their alliances before crushing the opposition.

11 minutes ago, Auctor said:

Proxy wars only really work in an environment where there are two equally matched sides that fear the consequences of an open confrontation with each other. The technical term for that scenario is "boring".

There's always multiple sides at stake. 

It's like after WW2, the Allies split between East versus West.

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Honestly stop signing protectorates left and right and trying to vassal swarm like it's fricking eu4. 

God knows I'd be killing people right now if you did. There you go, more wars.

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6 hours ago, Dubayoo said:

That's exactly the problem.

If more people are competing, that means less people are using the resources they have. 

We have to remember that PnW isn't real life. It's a game of conflict. The conditions that apply for a real life healthy market are the opposite of what we want here.

It's not like we're playing Sim City or Civilization here. PnW gives no value to a thriving civilian economy during peacetime.

I think you missed my point, the number of people participating in what is called 'market making', the practice or having both buy and sell offers for the same commodity, has increased a lot. The actual volume of goods is not material to my point. It doesn't cost me goods to buy 500 steel at 1950 and then to sell it at 2000 later that day. More people trying to flip goods at the same time leads to margin compression. 

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On 2/23/2019 at 9:02 PM, Frawley said:

Margin contraction is the natural result of more people competing to make the same markets.  If you look at who is in the market presently, there are substantially more players interacting with it on a daily basis.

In RL we call it a healthy market.

Yup, the margin between the highest buy and lowest sell offer doesn't really have anything to do with supply and demand, but how active the participants in the market are and how willing people are to spend more effort IRL to get better prices.

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