State of Orbis

[Greatnate]

If anyone attempts to change this mindset, try growing cactii outside, during winter- in Wisconsin.

 

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/EndangeredResources/Plants.asp?mode=detail&SpecCode=PDCAC0D0H0

Who knew that there were catcii in Wisconsin? It's like having alliances without treaties on Orbis.

[Doktor Avalanche]

http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/EndangeredResources/Plants.asp?mode=detail&SpecCode=PDCAC0D0H0

Who knew that there were catcii in Wisconsin? It's like having alliances without treaties on Orbis.

I had no !@#$ing clue.

Time to find another impossible comparison.

[Prefonteen]

1. Roy, bugger off with the 'omg mi6 is coming for us' crap. When you formed we let you build, hoping you would solidify into a dynamic major player. When you formed, we offered you our hand in friendship (read: no treaty. Just cordial relations). It was only when you began tieing yourself into a sphere composed of rivals who had, in our eyes, structurally attacked us, that we began considering you an enemy state. Any claim to the contrary is an idiotic manipulation to fit a tunnel vision narrative.

 

Re: paragon paperless-

 

When I (and with me, the rest of tS govt) pulled the trigger on you in npo's first time, we fully expected to lose initially. Moreover though, we were simply done catering to the dynamic of faux 'we want peeaaace' claims followed by Paracovenant attacks on tS. Frankly put: we stopped giving a !@#$ about being the catalyst of change at that exact moment. We'd tried. We'd been cocked around for it. Therefore, anyou chance would have to be instigated and executed by our enemies. Only then we'd follow suit.

 

Now, post-war you did go paperless but you didn't put in the diploma work to rebuild bridges. Keegoz shat all over the place on multiple occasions. Npo continued its victim complex. UPN diplo was Mia. Very diploma was Mia.

 

When you want us to change behavior in favor of something you want, the onus is on you to give us enough incentive to do so. That incentive can be military, political- power, security, friendship,- anything really. But it takes investment.

 

That's one of the reasons why syndisphere does not cope with your issues: we made a point to invest and to provide incentive to our allies. We made our m.o profitable for our allies.

 

I digress: no diplo effort was made. Why the !@#$ would we seek you out then? You considered and consider us enemies and have made it very clear that you want us and our sphere dead. Until you work to change that perception and back it up with your actions, we have literally no incentive to give you the light of day.

 

To pretend that we are obligated to anything else and to pretend that it's our fault is nothing but arrogance.

[Roquentin]

1. Roy, bugger off with the 'omg mi6 is coming for us' crap. When you formed we let you build, hoping you would solidify into a dynamic major player. When you formed, we offered you our hand in friendship (read: no treaty. Just cordial relations). It was only when you began tieing yourself into a sphere composed of rivals who had, in our eyes, structurally attacked us, that we began considering you an enemy state. Any claim to the contrary is an idiotic manipulation to fit a tunnel vision narrative.

 

Re: paragon paperless-

 

When I (and with me, the rest of tS govt) pulled the trigger on you in npo's first time, we fully expected to lose initially. Moreover though, we were simply done catering to the dynamic of faux 'we want peeaaace' claims followed by Paracovenant attacks on tS. Frankly put: we stopped giving a !@#$ about being the catalyst of change at that exact moment. We'd tried. We'd been cocked around for it. Therefore, anyou chance would have to be instigated and executed by our enemies. Only then we'd follow suit.

 

Now, post-war you did go paperless but you didn't put in the diploma work to rebuild bridges. Keegoz shat all over the place on multiple occasions. Npo continued its victim complex. UPN diplo was Mia. Very diploma was Mia.

 

When you want us to change behavior in favor of something you want, the onus is on you to give us enough incentive to do so. That incentive can be military, political- power, security, friendship,- anything really. But it takes investment.

 

That's one of the reasons why syndisphere does not cope with your issues: we made a point to invest and to provide incentive to our allies. We made our m.o profitable for our allies.

 

I digress: no diplo effort was made. Why the !@#$ would we seek you out then? You considered and consider us enemies and have made it very clear that you want us and our sphere dead. Until you work to change that perception and back it up with your actions, we have literally no incentive to give you the light of day.

 

To pretend that we are obligated to anything else and to pretend that it's our fault is nothing but arrogance.

 

I know I said I wasn't going to post, but since you named me, let's cut this out: I didn't stray into (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) stuff. Someone else did based on their vendetta from the other game.  The fact that you continue to deny that anyone has let it motivate their actions is disingenuous as hell when there is evidence to the contrary like that post I brought up. If the ex-leader of the #1 was looking to screw his allies who are tied to us over it, it obviously has an impact.  However, I wasn't invoking anything of the sort until that point.  Your continue claim about some potential new power cluster forming is hilarious because you knew there was zero chance. It's just a pipe dream at best and you being fake at worst. You continue pretending that an alliance you elected to attack is simply playing the victim. It's been clear for a while you went at shadows and it's all too funny to see you complain when someone responds in kind.

 

You can complain about a victim complex all you want, but what it is really is on your end is "WHY DON'T THEY HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AND GROVEL FOR THE SPHERE THAT WANTED TO TAKE THEM OUT? BETTER BE EXTRA HOSTILE TO THEM EVEN IN THE GAME SUGGESTIONS FORUM AND ANTAGONIZE THEM CONSTANTLY. THAT'LL FIX IT."

 

That aside on the specific sphere issue:

I've been pretty consistent:

1. There is a dominant grouping of alliances.

2. There is no reason to split up as the individual ambitions of the alliances have not clashed sufficiently yet.

3. As long as that doesn't happen or there is still a continual lack of hard disagreement, there is no reason for the dominant group to break up.

4. However, the dominant group frequently touts how fun and dynamic the political atmosphere is, despite a decline in dynamism in the last year or so. 

 

Regardless, no one is saying you have to do anything and there is no real whining except for the fact that it's true the politics will stagnate and that we took a shot here as it was the only way to avoid absolute dominance.

[Placentica]

I know I said I wasn't going to post, but since you named me, let's cut this out: I didn't stray into (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways) stuff. Someone else did based on their vendetta from the other game.  The fact that you continue to deny that anyone has let it motivate their actions is disingenuous as hell when there is evidence to the contrary like that post I brought up. If the ex-leader of the #1 was looking to screw his allies who are tied to us over it, it obviously has an impact.  However, I wasn't invoking anything of the sort until that point.  Your continue claim about some potential new power cluster forming is hilarious because you knew there was zero chance. It's just a pipe dream at best and you being fake at worst. You continue pretending that an alliance you elected to attack is simply playing the victim. It's been clear for a while you went at shadows and it's all too funny to see you complain when someone responds in kind.

 

You can complain about a victim complex all you want, but what it is really is on your end is "WHY DON'T THEY HAVE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME AND GROVEL FOR THE SPHERE THAT WANTED TO TAKE THEM OUT? BETTER BE EXTRA HOSTILE TO THEM EVEN IN THE GAME SUGGESTIONS FORUM AND ANTAGONIZE THEM CONSTANTLY. THAT'LL FIX IT."

 

That aside on the specific sphere issue:

I've been pretty consistent:

1. There is a dominant grouping of alliances.

2. There is no reason to split up as the individual ambitions of the alliances have not clashed sufficiently yet.

3. As long as that doesn't happen or there is still a continual lack of hard disagreement, there is no reason for the dominant group to break up.

4. However, the dominant group frequently touts how fun and dynamic the political atmosphere is, despite a decline in dynamism in the last year or so. 

 

Regardless, no one is saying you have to do anything and there is no real whining except for the fact that it's true the politics will stagnate and that we took a shot here as it was the only way to avoid absolute dominance.

I know you won't listen when I say something like this, and that's partly because I like to shitpost a bit too much.  But Roq speaks truth here and has been extremely patient.

[Guest Rin]

Ok look, face the facts here. People are just not teaming up with you guys because you guys are insufferable.

 

People don't care all that much about being on the losing side. Some of us actually prefer playing as the underdogs.

 

But nobody wants to be on the same team as that kid who is always complaining how much the game sucks, how they can't win, etc.

 

If you guys can just chill, everyone can enjoy the game. Maybe someone would even join your side willingly if they enjoy your company?

[LordRahl2]

Your side is beating our side because it plays better than us.  You must stop playing better or stop being friends with your friends.

 

Ok m8

[MrsPigeon]

This isn't factually accurate in any way. TKR let NPO get rolled instead of honoring an MDP. CS moved away from UPN. Sparta moved to your side (before the merge). BK cancelled UPN. tS cancelled Alpha to create the next gobal war. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more.

 

The problem is like CS/Sparta, etc, they dropped treaties to pick the winning side. Sparta dropped it's allies verbatim because they "wanted to be on the winning side". I'm picking them out because I have the log. I would wager to guess that alliances like CS and many others did the exact same thing.

 

The only reason this war even happened vs. a total curbstomp vs. our sphere and then Rose sphere is because you were so open about wanting to roll Rose or SK. They realized that was exactly what your side was planning to do and reacted. Re-acted....

Lol this whole rhetoric coming from you about our sphere secretly planning an attack is honestly old now and false. You can choose to believe you're right but you're wrong.

 

Also if you remember correctly, we didn't honor our treaty with NPO because they decided to ally with the wrong side and then get themselves into a war with our longstanding allies. You're salt towards TKR is prevalent in almost every thread. Get over it.

[Roquentin]

Ok look, face the facts here. People are just not teaming up with you guys because you guys are insufferable.

 

People don't care all that much about being on the losing side. Some of us actually prefer playing as the underdogs.

 

But nobody wants to be on the same team as that kid who is always complaining how much the game sucks, how they can't win, etc.

 

If you guys can just chill, everyone can enjoy the game. Maybe someone would even join your side willingly if they enjoy your company?

 

lol This just seems like another instance of gaslighting here along with "no one cares about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)", there's "no one really cares about winning" when it's been openly encouraged even in this thread to ditch friends to save infra and that friends > infra is stupid.   I think it would be very hard adjustment for many of you to start losing especially when there are those among you who join alliances because they don't want their growth held back by losing.  The constant emphasis on "we always win" really makes it seem like you're alone in this sentiment. I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is one day. 

 

Ok m8

 

Yeah, way to misconstrue what I said. This type of stuff is exactly why there is no worthwhile dialogue on here and why I don't feel like it anymore. I basically said there is no reason for you to split up. It's a descriptive and not prescriptive analysis.

 

 

Lol this whole rhetoric coming from you about our sphere secretly planning an attack is honestly old now and false. You can choose to believe you're right but you're wrong.

 

Also if you remember correctly, we didn't honor our treaty with NPO because they decided to ally with the wrong side and then get themselves into a war with our longstanding allies. You're salt towards TKR is prevalent in almost every thread. Get over it.

You have your perspective and that's fine and that's why we won't see eye to eye.

 

Prior to what you're referring to we were already allied to Alpha. Regardless of opinions of Alpha, TKR supported tS's war on Alpha which would directly obligate us to enter and get wrecked. It wasn't a distant chain or anything. At that point, it became clear that we couldn't rely on the TKR treaty's extremely limited applicability in most possible war scenarios. Their priorities were elsewhere.  We continued branching out and got other allies. Then we sign one in particular and TKR support a war directly on us.  Saying we got ourselves into a war with your allies when it was entirely tS/BK's decision is preposterous. They wanted a war and they started it. We were never going to attack them and there was zero interest from our allies in going on the offensive. It was entirely a decision on their end and it can't be pinned on us. Plenty of Paracovenant treaties were signed before that. You chose to support them in their aggression and that was all on you. Don't try to blame us. You're happy with your decisions and that's fine, but there's really nothing else to it.

 

Now I'm really done.

[Harrison Richardson]

I keep misunderstanding how winning this war would have shifted anything.  Nobody would have cared, just like nobody cares that Syndisphere is winning.  Let me say it again: winning/losing a war has no long term effect.  

 

Casting this as "the last shot against global Syndisphere domination" just reeks of.. well, amateur game theory really.

[MrsPigeon]

lol This just seems like another instance of gaslighting here along with "no one cares about (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways)", there's "no one really cares about winning" when it's been openly encouraged even in this thread to ditch friends to save infra and that friends > infra is stupid. I think it would be very hard adjustment for many of you to start losing especially when there are those among you who join alliances because they don't want their growth held back by losing. The constant emphasis on "we always win" really makes it seem like you're alone in this sentiment. I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is one day.

 

 

Yeah, way to misconstrue what I said. This type of stuff is exactly why there is no worthwhile dialogue on here and why I don't feel like it anymore. I basically said there is no reason for you to split up. It's a descriptive and not prescriptive analysis.

 

 

You have your perspective and that's fine and that's why we won't see eye to eye.

 

Prior to what you're referring to we were already allied to Alpha. Regardless of opinions of Alpha, TKR supported tS's war on Alpha which would directly obligate us to enter and get wrecked. It wasn't a distant chain or anything. At that point, it became clear that we couldn't rely on the TKR treaty's extremely limited applicability in most possible war scenarios. Their priorities were elsewhere. We continued branching out and got other allies. Then we sign one in particular and TKR support a war directly on us. Saying we got ourselves into a war with your allies when it was entirely tS/BK's decision is preposterous. They wanted a war and they started it. We were never going to attack them and there was zero interest from our allies in going on the offensive. It was entirely a decision on their end and it can't be pinned on us. Plenty of Paracovenant treaties were signed before that. You chose to support them in their aggression and that was all on you. Don't try to blame us. You're happy with your decisions and that's fine, but there's really nothing else to it.

 

Now I'm really done.

I should've put a disclaimer: I'm a mere member and don't speak for TKR at all really. So pretty much everything I say is my own opinion and could be entirely misguided because my memory sucks sometimes.

 

From my perspective, the events that transpired resulted from a mutual misunderstanding, same with this current war. Paracov thought OO was planning an offensive. It wasn't true. As far as I know, we were having a jolly ole time rebuilding and didn't want a war (VE was the first to militarize). But then we got hit. We've all made mistakes. Our perspectives are very different.

 

Anyway, I believe TKR respects NPO, especially your fighting abilities. We certainly don't wish animosity, but also don't think we could've made any decision other than the one we made (referring to NPO-TKR treaty). I, as a member, wish we could've been friends. I don't believe I'm alone in this sentiment.

Edited September 18, 2016 by RoboMonkey

[greatkitteh]

 

 

 

Now I'm really done.

AyA your finally going to sleep!

[Charles Bolivar]

Sums up this entire thread

 

 

Honestly though, Syndisphere and OOphere aren't winning war after war due to some game imbalance. Far from it

 

We are winning it simply due to having better leadership and a result of this leadership, more competent membership bases.

 

I don't know how many times counter blitzes from paracov have been stopped dead in their tracks because of paracov attackers attacking one by one over a period of hours. You either attack alongside someone within a few minutes or you don't attack at all. Attacking one by one does nothing but open up the initial attacker to counters from our side resulting in our def slots being filled up with zeroed nations. No idea what is going wrong there but surely the gov members in each of these alliances can make an announcement attempting to educate their respective memberships.

 

Another factor is paracov's mostly heavily centralised government structures. All that results from this is a membership heavily reliant upon central gov for direction and incompetent of performing any action without direction from a gov member. I can't speak for TKR or BK though I assume they will be like tS in that we pretty much handle our own milcom at a membership level (mensa obviously is a no brainer regards in to having a competent membership) . Gov coordinates with other alliances, generates a list of targets and we rely upon an experienced and competent membership to handle the rest. Very rarely does a member have to send an urgent request for assistance to gov, they just hope on irc, discord, slack and request assistance from other members which is usually given within 10 or 15 mins. I might be wrong speaking in general for the other side but based on the conduct of the persons who attack us, we simply don't see that at all. (granted some AAs might be better at this than others).

 

And don't blame syndi and OOsphere for having treaties with allies who are all competent. That isn't our fault, it is the gov within each paracov AA who are to blame for that. These respective govs repeatedly refuse treaties or offers of friendship from us in favour of their current allies.

 

The blame game starts at home and the gov members within each of the paracov alliances only have themselves to blame and they should own up to their own memberships in this manner instead of trying to pass the responsibility of their own failings onto their enemies.

 

I don't even know how the gov members within a few of the paracov AAs are even still in gov. If gov members within syndi and OOsphere had lost repeated war after war for the same reasons over and over again, they would have been kicked out of gov and replaced long ago.

 

The only way this game is imbalanced is because we have a surplus of competent gov members and paracov probably has a handful at best.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Night King

[Divinum]

Guess when t$ was founded!

 

11/21/2014 (666 Days Old)

 

Clearly, demonic forces are at play here.