[RoH] Truth and Honor

[Shwin]

A TFP Statement

 

Some screenshots are redacted out of respect for the user’s privacy

A couple things to start out with. First of all, there is no TL;DR - read the damn thing. If you’re not interested in reading, that’s fine, but don’t whine and complain that you’re not informed. Secondly, there hasn’t been a forum post made by KT regarding their DoW, however some stuff has been said in RON which will be addressed here. Now, let's get into it.

Throughout my time in TFP we've always done our best to act in good faith. We have always felt this was the right mindset to have given the positions we've generally been in. A cornerstone of this mentality is being as honest as we can and doing our best to always present the truth. Unlike the Syndicate, however, we back up our claims with evidence and proof instead of fabricating false rumors as justification. 

When asked to further expand upon their CB, the Syndicate stated the following:

 

Image 1 - Conversation between myself and Tarroc, the FA head of the Syndicate. The timestamps of this conversation are in EST, dating it to around 45 mins after the Syndicate and SAIL declared war on TFP.

As stated previously, the majority of this explanation is outright false and we are more than willing to prove it claim by claim. Starting from the top - "Hearing reports that TFP wanted to join Dodge This to fight t$ and others but was refused." The first of the false reports. We had no intention of joining this conflict. We had no grudge against either side and we saw it as an opportunity to achieve some growth while most of our competitors were fighting. We made our intentions clear to our allies, as can be seen below.

Images 2 & 3 - Conversations from our direct line of communication between ourselves and our allies at the time, Eclipse. The timestamps from the pictures are in EST dating Image 2 to before the Dodge This war started, and Image 3 to after the Dodge This war started. Lastly, the :ancap: reaction in Image 2 is typically used to show approval or appreciation for the message it is attached to. Further questions about the use of this emoji can be directed towards Penpiko.

 

These records with our allies at the time indicate there was no desire to join the conflict before it had started and after it had started. However, not only was there no desire to join the conflict, there was also no capability to do so. During the start of the war, I wasn't even in a position to spend any excess amount of time to plan and coordinate a war. As the leader and milcom head, I was occupied elsewhere. I was vacationing in Northeast Canada at the time and would've much rather spent time relaxing than playing a nation sim on my phone. There aren't any flight logs given we drove, and I wouldn't be comfortable sharing our hotel accommodation receipts, but we do have some further evidence to support the claim.

Image 4 - Conversation from our leadership channel discussing apparent safety in the upcoming war and intentions to return to vacation. The timestamp from this conversation is in EST which dates it to a day before the Dodge This conflict started. For those who may not be familiar with shorthand words, vaca is short for vacation.

All of this evidence suggests there was no motive, means, nor opportunity for us to enter the Dodge This conflict on either side. It is clear that the Syndicate fabricated this fake claim to try and justify their actions. 

The next claim from the Syndicate states, "hearing reports that TFP wanted to form a coalition to fight SAIL at the end of the NAP but was refused." Another false claim. We had no intention of fighting any war at all this NAP-end. It was evident early on that other spheres had their sights set on each other and we could use the opportunity as a period of extended growth while others were fighting. Our plans for the NAP-end period can be seen below.

Image 5 - Conversation from our leadership channel discussing raising infra levels post NAP-end. The timestamps are in EST which dates the conversation to 2 weeks before the Dodge This NAP ended.

Not only did we tell ourselves that we would be investing in growth, but we also told other spheres that we had no intention of fighting this cycle and would prefer to keep a low profile to grow. In terms of the timing of raising infra post-NAP, we intended to make sure we weren't hit by any other spheres before guaranteeing we could safely increase our infra and gain substantial growth. Additionally, given that we had just fought a war against ODOO that ended November 1st, 2 months before the Dodge This NAP ended, we had no intentions of getting into another war so quickly. Those intentions remained the same throughout the following weeks. Even when deciding to militarize as bloc, there were still no intentions to engage in any conflict at all. In fact, when discussing our precautionary militarization, it was my preference to not even mil at all as it seemed the course for the NAP-end war had been set, and we didn't want to play any part in it.

Image 6 - Conversation from our direct line of communication between ourselves and our allies at the time, Eclipse. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to approximately a week before the Dodge This NAP ended.

 

We maintained that we had no desire to be a part in any conflict and didn't even want to militarize to highlight our desire to lay low while other parties fought. It is evident that we had absolutely no desire to engage in a war let alone engage against SAIL. Furthermore, we maintained the same desire not to get involved in the war after it had already started. We wanted to remain at peace for the entire duration of the war, as can be seen by the following statement. 

Image 7 - Statement issued to our former bloc members about our future intentions. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to approximately a week after the current Singularity sphere vs SAIL sphere started.

As can be seen by our statement to the rest of the bloc, we intended to stay with them and not engage in any conflict for the duration of the war and only part ways after the conflict had concluded. All of the evidence highlights our desire to not engage in any conflict at all during the post-NAP period, and deciding to do so early on many weeks before the Dodge This NAP was set to end. This further proves the Syndicate has constructed fake claims to try and justify their actions.

The next claim the Syndicate has presented states that "TFP was one of the founding parties of the coalition that rolled Fortuna back in Darkest Hour ..... seemed to paint a picture of an alliance who held hostile intent towards us." We finally get to the first bit of truth the Syndicate has presented. It is true we were one of the founding parties of the anti-fortuna coalition as I mentioned briefly in my post in RON which can be seen here. However, that is where the truth ends. We outlined our reasons for wanting to fight fortuna - for the purpose of seeking justice for the actions taken against us by the Syndicate. That war, however, is where the hostility ended and we considered the matter to be settled. In fact, in the end days of our anti-fortuna war, I talked with WANA, the former FA head of the Syndicate, and offered to lend them my services if they were interested. I'd figured that since many were opposing them during the war, it would be a nice gesture to reach out and offer myself as a friend that could help.

Images 8 & 9 - Conversations between myself and the former FA head of the Syndicate. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation towards the end of the anti-fortuna conflict.

As can be seen by these statements, we reached out in good faith in an effort to help the Syndicate and hopefully establish a working relationship together. Additionally, we explicitly stated that we had no intentions of continuously working against them nor maintaining hostile relations with them. The evidence suggests the contrary - that we wanted to put the war behind us and look to fostering a positive relationship. Yet again, it seems as if the Syndicate has made up other claims to try and justify themselves. The only difference being that they were not 100% wrong about this claim - only 90%.

Moving on to the last significant claim made by the Syndicate, it reads, "it's the intent and desire to leave WELP to go join up with Singularity and Cypher... it further reinforces the idea that TFP has hostile intentions towards T$ and is going to link itself up with alliances who will work with it to attack us." Here we have another bit of partial truth among many lies. It seems they are getting closer though. It is true we intended to ally Singularity, however had not made decisions about allying the Cypher given the controversy surrounding them. That is all the truth there is unfortunately. We had no intentions of working against the Syndicate and in fact had intentions to steer clear of them for the foreseeable future, as can be seen below.

Image 10 - Conversation in our leadership channel about our situation at the time. Image 11 & 12 - Conversations with [REDACTED] about our situation at the time. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to a few days ago, before we were attacked. For context, the term "let us live" means not attacking us. Additionally, the emoji :nodders: is a moving nod typically used to show agreement or approval

Not only did we have no intentions of fighting sail or the Syndicate, but had they not attacked us, we were willing to return the gesture of goodwill and not look to target them at all in the foreseeable future. Had they been kind enough to leave us alone, we would have kindly returned the favor by not working against them. I'm sure many will bring up how it is likely that Singularity will harbor a grudge against the Syndicate and will actively try to plot their revenge against them. They will ask - given that we plan to sign them, wouldn't it be contradictory to assume we had good intentions? Hopefully the image below can shed light on the matter.

Image 13 - Conversation with [REDACTED] regarding our future plans with Singularity. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to a few days ago before we were attacked.

 

As can be seen, our goal with allying Singularity was to repair relations with the Syndicate and SAIL. We thought although challenging, it would provide us with a highly engaging peace period and ultimately allow for a more dynamic and active political landscape. Had the Syndicate been willing to continue conversations with us, we would have loved to share the idea with them and work towards achieving it, however, it doesn't seem they cared much for what we had to say.

Altogether it shows that the Syndicate's CB is entirely invalid and based on zero evidence or facts and it is extremely disappointing. The truth is, that I have wanted to work with the Syndicate for some time now.  Our embassy with them has been one of the more active ones over the past few months and I along with the rest of the FA team has been glad to get to know them more and I hoped it would one day turn into a strong positive relationship. For all the alliances around, none seem to want to maintain the political discourse and professionalism of yesteryear. Most of all, none seem to write out well written CB's or lengthy forum posts. I, for one, have always tried to give well-explained responses to significant events rooted in truth and fact, and I thought the Syndicate valued the same. It is unfortunate to see that they have missed the mark on this one.

Image 14 - Conversation in our shared TFP T$ embassy channel discussing our shared admiration for meaningful CB's. The timestamps are in EST dating them to a few hours after we declared war on ODOO during the That'll Buff Right Out war.

At the end of the day, all of the evidence presented suggests the exact opposite of their narrative - that not only were we not interested in targeting them, but we actually wanted to work with them and take on a fun challenge. Ultimately, this means one of two things. Either they knew this was a false narrative to begin with and are choosing to be opportunistic - the same thing they called out Singularity for and would therefore label themselves hypocrites; or they are gullible enough to believe a false narrative given to them by their closest friends - our former allies. 

 

TFP recognizes hostilities with the greater SAIL sphere (The Syndicate, Aurora, Church of Atom, The Legion, Carthago, Knights Templar)

Edited January 17 by Shwin

[Presidential]

This is the first time that I have read one of your walls of text FYI.

Edited January 17 by Presidential

[Popat]

Everything is on point. I can't respond better than an upvote. 

[AlexiosKomnenos]

[Jesus Prime]

[KindaEpicMoah]

Ancap emoji use is a valid CB imo

Edited January 17 by KindaEpicMoah

[Bruin]

All good points. Pretty crappy how our extension of an olive branch was repaid with a club.

[Themonia]

Going to leave the validity and goal of the post's contents and the current conflict aside for a moment. I think the effort put into these posts needs to be respected, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

[Tartarus]

3 hours ago, Themonia said:

Going to leave the validity and goal of the post's contents and the current conflict aside for a moment. I think the effort put into these posts needs to be respected, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Going to leave the validity and goal of the post's contents and the current conflict aside for a moment. I think the effort put into this reply needs to be respected, thanks for taking the time to contain your chromosomes.

Edited January 17 by Tartarus

[Ducc Zucc]

womp womp

[Rageproject]

All that I think was missing was a mic drop. 

[leonissenbaum]

First off, glad to see more proper political texts on the forums! That being said, this specific one has some pretty glaring issues.

These logs are extremely censored. While it's not always possible to share the full logs for everything, of course, censoring this much from this many logs makes it extremely easy to change the meaning of what's being said, and taking all of these logs at face value would be ridiculous. Image 5 for example hides out over half of the discussion. It's of course impossible to single out which specific images might have redactions used to change the context, but it'd be foolish to assume it's not done at all.

2 hours ago, Shwin said:

The next claim from the Syndicate states, "hearing reports that TFP wanted to form a coalition to fight SAIL at the end of the NAP but was refused." Another false claim. We had no intention of fighting any war at all this NAP-end. It was evident early on that other spheres had their sights set on each other and we could use the opportunity as a period of extended growth while others were fighting. Our plans for the NAP-end period can be seen below.

Image 5 - Conversation from our leadership channel discussing raising infra levels post NAP-end. The timestamps are in EST which dates the conversation to 2 weeks before the Dodge This NAP ended.

Not only did we tell ourselves that we would be investing in growth, but we also told other spheres that we had no intention of fighting this cycle and would prefer to keep a low profile to grow. In terms of the timing of raising infra post-NAP, we intended to make sure we weren't hit by any other spheres before guaranteeing we could safely increase our infra and gain substantial growth. Additionally, given that we had just fought a war against ODOO that ended November 1st, 2 months before the Dodge This NAP ended, we had no intentions of getting into another war so quickly. Those intentions remained the same throughout the following weeks. Even when deciding to militarize as bloc, there were still no intentions to engage in any conflict at all. In fact, when discussing our precautionary militarization, it was my preference to not even mil at all as it seemed the course for the NAP-end war had been set, and we didn't want to play any part in it.

Image 6 - Conversation from our direct line of communication between ourselves and our allies at the time, Eclipse. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to approximately a week before the Dodge This NAP ended.

 

We maintained that we had no desire to be a part in any conflict and didn't even want to militarize to highlight our desire to lay low while other parties fought. It is evident that we had absolutely no desire to engage in a war let alone engage against SAIL. Furthermore, we maintained the same desire not to get involved in the war after it had already started. We wanted to remain at peace for the entire duration of the war, as can be seen by the following statement. 

Image 7 - Statement issued to our former bloc members about our future intentions. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to approximately a week after the current Singularity sphere vs SAIL sphere started.

As can be seen by our statement to the rest of the bloc, we intended to stay with them and not engage in any conflict for the duration of the war and only part ways after the conflict had concluded. All of the evidence highlights our desire to not engage in any conflict at all during the post-NAP period, and deciding to do so early on many weeks before the Dodge This NAP was set to end. This further proves the Syndicate has constructed fake claims to try and justify their actions.

These images are meant to try and disprove that you tried to form a coalition against us, but using these to disprove it is ridiculous. Looking at the dates, they were ~2 weeks before the end of the NAP, ~1 week before the end of the NAP, and.. after the NAP. It's unclear how this is meant to disprove the idea that you wanted to form a coalition against us but failed, but it doesn't. 

 

2 hours ago, Shwin said:

The next claim the Syndicate has presented states that "TFP was one of the founding parties of the coalition that rolled Fortuna back in Darkest Hour ..... seemed to paint a picture of an alliance who held hostile intent towards us." We finally get to the first bit of truth the Syndicate has presented. It is true we were one of the founding parties of the anti-fortuna coalition as I mentioned briefly in my post in RON which can be seen here. However, that is where the truth ends. We outlined our reasons for wanting to fight fortuna - for the purpose of seeking justice for the actions taken against us by the Syndicate. That war, however, is where the hostility ended and we considered the matter to be settled. In fact, in the end days of our anti-fortuna war, I talked with WANA, the former FA head of the Syndicate, and offered to lend them my services if they were interested. I'd figured that since many were opposing them during the war, it would be a nice gesture to reach out and offer myself as a friend that could help.

Images 8 & 9 - Conversations between myself and the former FA head of the Syndicate. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation towards the end of the anti-fortuna conflict.

As can be seen by these statements, we reached out in good faith in an effort to help the Syndicate and hopefully establish a working relationship together. Additionally, we explicitly stated that we had no intentions of continuously working against them nor maintaining hostile relations with them. The evidence suggests the contrary - that we wanted to put the war behind us and look to fostering a positive relationship. Yet again, it seems as if the Syndicate has made up other claims to try and justify themselves. The only difference being that they were not 100% wrong about this claim - only 90%.

Telling WANA that you don't want to continually work against us is a nice gesture, but words are cheap. When you then proceed to continually work against us right after darkest hour, we don't have much reason to give you the benefit of the doubt. 

 

1 hour ago, Shwin said:

Moving on to the last significant claim made by the Syndicate, it reads, "it's the intent and desire to leave WELP to go join up with Singularity and Cypher... it further reinforces the idea that TFP has hostile intentions towards T$ and is going to link itself up with alliances who will work with it to attack us." Here we have another bit of partial truth among many lies. It seems they are getting closer though. It is true we intended to ally Singularity, however had not made decisions about allying the Cypher given the controversy surrounding them.

While it's fair that you weren't going to actually ally cypher (although it's interesting that this is one of the few claims that don't have image proof..), this is a nitpick. The problem we have is with you allying someone who's been extremely clear how they plan to be hostile towards us in the future, not with the details of if you're allying Cypher or not. 

 

2 hours ago, Shwin said:

We had no intentions of working against the Syndicate and in fact had intentions to steer clear of them for the foreseeable future, as can be seen below.

Image 10 - Conversation in our leadership channel about our situation at the time. Image 11 & 12 - Conversations with [REDACTED] about our situation at the time. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to a few days ago, before we were attacked. For context, the term "let us live" means not attacking us. Additionally, the emoji :nodders: is a moving nod typically used to show agreement or approval

Not only did we have no intentions of fighting sail or the Syndicate, but had they not attacked us, we were willing to return the gesture of goodwill and not look to target them at all in the foreseeable future. Had they been kind enough to leave us alone, we would have kindly returned the favor by not working against them. I'm sure many will bring up how it is likely that Singularity will harbor a grudge against the Syndicate and will actively try to plot their revenge against them. They will ask - given that we plan to sign them, wouldn't it be contradictory to assume we had good intentions? Hopefully the image below can shed light on the matter.

Image 13 - Conversation with [REDACTED] regarding our future plans with Singularity. The timestamps are in EST dating this conversation to a few days ago before we were attacked.

 

As can be seen, our goal with allying Singularity was to repair relations with the Syndicate and SAIL. We thought although challenging, it would provide us with a highly engaging peace period and ultimately allow for a more dynamic and active political landscape. Had the Syndicate been willing to continue conversations with us, we would have loved to share the idea with them and work towards achieving it, however, it doesn't seem they cared much for what we had to say.

This paints a picture of you wanting to ensure positive relations with t$ after allying singularity and preventing a revenge war. If this is true, you've had the perfect opportunity to mention it to us: After your 72 hours with eclipse were up, you reached out to Tarroc, and there was a discussion on if we wanted to hit you or not. You mentioned wanting to ally singularity post-war, posted 10 minutes later that may have changed the thought process "slightly", and then the chat remained silent. If you really wanted to stop singularity from doing a revenge war on us, then I have no idea why you wouldn't bring it up at the time. 

Finally, I'd like to note that, if you look at our actual DOW post, our primary CB against you is your intention to ally with singularity, who is clearly hostile to us. Tarroc provided additional grievances in DM's, but these are grievances we have with you, not the primary CB. Claiming that we "fabricated" this when it was just sent to you, not posted publicly, doesn't make any sense. What would be the point of fabricating grievances with you to only send it to you? And attacking these grievances won't disprove our CB, as our CB is about your intention to ally singularity.

[Buorhann]

19 minutes ago, leonissenbaum said:

our primary CB against you is your intention to ally with singularity, who is clearly hostile to us.

Can't wait to see what box this opens up!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

13 minutes ago, Buorhann said:

Can't wait to see what box this opens up!

I'd like to honestly ask a question, and I don't want it to come across as being hostile or anything.

If you're told "Alliance A intends on allying with Alliance B, your enemy, an enemy who has made it clear they intend on attacking you in the future to get revenge" does it not stand to reason that, since everyone knows about Alliance B's desire for revenge, alliance A must be on board with that, and thus is fine with a future revenge war? And, with that in mind, if an alliance plans on attacking you in the future, and you find that they've ended up in a situation without allies, and you can attack them to set back their growth, and ensure they're weaker in the future if/when they come for revenge, would you say "No, I'll let them continue to grow unhindered" or would you capitalize on a chance to set back their growing by forcing a rebuild?

[Emeralds]

Wow... TFP is know for peace keeping when milled up. This is interesting you're moving to a new direction or should I say well planned out "plan B" direction   😉 

[Chernomor]

At least we're on the right side of history. 

[Themonia]

4 minutes ago, Chernomor said:

At least we're on the right side of history. 

You may be on the right side.... but we are on the left...

[Mituss]

.

Edited January 17 by Mituss

[Buorhann]

3 hours ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said:

I'd like to honestly ask a question, and I don't want it to come across as being hostile or anything.

If you're told "Alliance A intends on allying with Alliance B, your enemy, an enemy who has made it clear they intend on attacking you in the future to get revenge" does it not stand to reason that, since everyone knows about Alliance B's desire for revenge, alliance A must be on board with that, and thus is fine with a future revenge war? And, with that in mind, if an alliance plans on attacking you in the future, and you find that they've ended up in a situation without allies, and you can attack them to set back their growth, and ensure they're weaker in the future if/when they come for revenge, would you say "No, I'll let them continue to grow unhindered" or would you capitalize on a chance to set back their growing by forcing a rebuild?

I get it, you're being opportunistic about it.  Personally I see that as a colossal !@#$ up on FA, but...  that's Syndicate for you.

I honestly can't recall a single time that I ever crossed that line, even during my time with Mensa HQ and our trolling proxy warring screwing around.  I may be wrong, that's just not something normal.

[BettaChecka]

The use of "Sing" throughout this entire post and comments is tilting :AINTNOWAY:

[Pascal]

7 hours ago, Shwin said:

or they are gullible enough to believe a false narrative given to them by their closest friends - our former allies. 

That is just full cope. We were "allies" (a rather one-sided relationship since November, tbqh), we also know how you really felt about t$ along with certain other parties.

You can keep plotting against Sail & ODOO with your own third parties, sorry I meant your "closest friends", without trying to involve us now.

Edited January 17 by Pascal

[GhostReacher]

[Tartarus]

3 hours ago, BettaChecka said:

The use of "Sing" throughout this entire post and comments is tilting :AINTNOWAY:

Serbian KGB have redacted this post.

Edited January 17 by Tartarus

[George Von-Itzstein]

Rest in Power TFP. Someone had to roll you guys eventually. 

[Tiberius Aurion]

@ShwinIf you need a Milcom head to lighten your duties as leader I know a former guy who just left us who you might be interested in. He would love to have a MA job. Anyways good luck with your and T$ war.