Abu Haddad Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Why shouldn't they have? Is it because the very thought of a women, alone, and vulnerable is simply too much for those men to handle? If that's the case the fault lies, again, with the men for their own disjointed views on women, sex, and consent. To say anything to the contrary is rape apologism. No Rape is a heinous crime and is classified as terrorism and punishable by death in sharia law. A woman alone in the night wearing revealing clothing and she gets raped. yes she is at fault. Had she been with someone in the day wearing modest clothing she wouldn't have been 1 Quote Caliph of The Caliphate of Arabia. Caliph of the Islamic State of Arabia. Principle of The Principality of Chechnya. Grand Emir of The Emirate of The Caucus. Emperor of the Empire of Persia. Sultan of The Sultanates of Turkey and The Crimea. Czar of the Tsardom of The Balkans. Archon of The Archonate of Greece. Supreme Consul of The Consulate of Italy. Shah of The Shahdom Of Khorason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No Rape is a heinous crime and is classified as terrorism and punishable by death in sharia law. I didn't ask you about Sharia law. I asked why shouldn't women feel safe when traveling alone. A woman alone in the night wearing revealing clothing and she gets raped. yes she is at fault. Had she been with someone in the day wearing modest clothing she wouldn't have been So, let me try to follow your train of thought. You're saying that the woman, the victim is responsible for the thoughts going inside a rapists head? And what does covering oneself or getting an escort accomplish? It doesn't completely eliminate the possibility of sexual assault or harassment. With your logic a woman can always be held accountable in some way for getting assaulted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 No Rape is a heinous crime and is classified as terrorism and punishable by death in sharia law. A woman alone in the night wearing revealing clothing and she gets raped. yes she is at fault. Had she been with someone in the day wearing modest clothing she wouldn't have been Lol. Rape is like terrorism - all Muslims do it. JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redael Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Religon acts as a moral guideline for people who may not have their own, therefore it helps Quote Gary Johnson 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moreau Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Advising a women who walked home alone in the middle of the night dressed like a !@#$ - only to find herself gang-raped - to dress modestly & go with a male relative next time.... Is like advising someone who left their house unlocked before going out - only to find all their possessions stolen - to lock their house & purchase a burglar alarm next time. Yes, it won't completely prevent it from happening again, but it certainly will reduce the risk. Edited March 29, 2016 by Moreau III 1 Quote Signed by Sultan Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think you should compare it to leaving your car keys in the ignition. Taking a car with the keys inside is considered joy-riding, not theft. It's like practically your fault that someone takes your car. But, raping a woman because she is dressed attractively and unguarded? Because you wanted to and you could? I don't want to live in a society where I have to always escort women wearing potato sacks. My society has made progress where attractive women aren't whores and they have the freedom and security to be independent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur James Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 only those who associate with God know his presence....otherwise no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The human mind can not comprehend what it does not see which is why we can't perceive a higher bieng or heaven and hell. We can't perceive eternity and time and we try to associate them with what we have, Time is not a dimension We can measure time but we cannot stop time or manipulate it. So where does time come from. If I said God you'd see me as primitive and stupid but the human brain is so limited we cannot comprehend that time is eternity or that there is an eternity. Staph making me agree with you 1 Quote Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliteCanada Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Advising a women who walked home alone in the middle of the night dressed like a !@#$ - only to find herself gang-raped - to dress modestly & go with a male relative next time.... Is like advising someone who left their house unlocked before going out - only to find all their possessions stolen - to lock their house & purchase a burglar alarm next time. Yes, it won't completely prevent it from happening again, but it certainly will reduce the risk. Man and woman should be free to travel as, how and where they please. If a man or woman wants to travel nude, or dress as "sluts" because they prefer, that dressing style, that should be intrinsic rights of all men and women everywhere. Suggesting otherwise is despicable (not that you are (yet); I speak only generally). It's sad and despicable to live in a society where style of where gets one raped and abused in some societies and cultures around the world (even if the most civilized). I long for a day when people will be able to do, and believe, as they believe without ridicule, hate or actions taken against them. Advising a women who walked home alone in the middle of the night dressed like a !@#$ - only to find herself gang-raped - to dress modestly & go with a male relative next time A sad day and a sad society where these type of recommendations are required. Although I'm no feminist, although I ofc believe in equality, I find it sad that if I wanted to I could wear equally "revealing" clothes and nothing would happen to me; then again I do live in a relatively small Canadian town where many in my neighbourhood know me and would only perhaps laugh or think I lost a bet. Also, what you refer to as "slutty" is probably just comfortable wear for a hot summer day. Edited March 29, 2016 by EliteCanada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I agree with him that time isn't a deminsion (per se). The rest is an elaboration of his favorite line, "nothing can be proven". We can perceive god, heaven, and hell...and dragons and unicorns - 'Cuz they're all inventions of our imaginations. But, we can't grasp the nature of things beyond the laws of nature we know? Sure we can. We can thought experiment things that defy the laws of nature. We can and have manipulated time. There are examples of time stopped in nature. Time is nothing, void. It was never created. It doesn't even really exist. Like cold is nothing, but void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliteCanada Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Alright so if you truly aren't RPing, or trolling I have a few questions and comments to one of your posts. How can god be evil. You must be deranged to believe your creator can be evil. If I were to have a son, or daughter, and beat, sexually abuse, and scorn (as well as doing anything else you may see as evil) him, or her would he, or she, be deranged in thinking I was evil? I am his or her creator after-all. Christendom is false know that before you say anything. And what christians and their jolly thoughts think they know is total bs Many religions have roots within each other; even Christianity and Islam, thus to call Christendom and Christianity complete BS is to call your own religion, or at least some aspects, complete BS. Allah forgives if you ask. But if you are not a muslim you will not be forgiven and shall spend eternity in hell. But a muslim will be forgiven even if he does not ask for repentance. So Allah doesn't actually forgive if you ask. He either forgives if you are a Muslim (w/o asking for forgivenance) or he doesn't if you aren't Muslim. Before Humans god created the angels out of light. These angels have no free will and obey god without any disobedience. Then he created the Jin out of smokeless fire. They had free will but did evil upon the earth. Allah sent the angels to destroy them and they were driven the depths of the oceans. But they could not kill a baby that was iblis. He became a god fearing jin and there was no place upon earth that he did not bestow his worship of Allah. But Iblis had free will. Allah created Adam from clay and water and breathed his spirit into him. Adam came alive. The angels asked allah "why are you creating humans when they will spread evil upon the earth". Allah replied "I know and you know not". He ordered the angels to bow down to Adam, and they all bowed down except for iblis who was full of pride and arrogance. Allah asked him why he had disobeyed. He replied that he was better because he was made out of fire. Then Allah condemned him to hell where he would reside for all eternity. Then he asked Allah to be spared until the day of judgement. Allah allowed him, by allowing him allah showed him mercy. A few questions. Referring specifically to the second bolded section; so they disobeyed God by not killing the baby (after all Allah sent the Angels to kill them, but they spared baby Iblis). How exactly were these "Angels" able to exercise free will and display disobedience by sparing the baby. Second question; if the Angels were ordered to destroy the Jin why were they driven to the depths of the ocean. Another display of disobedience it seems. Third question: what is the point of creating an entity with free will if when free will is displayed that counters Allah's "word" it leads them to be destroyed by the wrath of Angels? What is the actual purpose of free will if the created entities are to be destroyed by commiting actions that are not approved of. May as well only create Angels who can obey and display no disobedience and tell them to act within certain approved of parameters and enjoy themselves. Allah condemned Iblis to hell where he would reside for all of eternity for one action? Seems like the actions of a forgiving God. Also, to the following point: Allah allowed him, by allowing him allah showed him mercy. Is it really showing mercy to allow someone to live for xxx amount of years of peace to then be sentenced to hell for the rest of eternity? It seems to me that knowing your fate after this "mercy" period would be a torture in and of itself and no display of mercy. Often the thought of a punishment is worse than it itself. TLDR: story full of plot holes and contradictions. Edited March 29, 2016 by EliteCanada 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Alright so if you truly aren't RPing, or trolling I have a few questions and comments to one of your posts. If I were to have a son, or daughter, and beat, sexually abuse, and scorn (as well as doing anything else you may see as evil) him, or her would he, or she, be deranged in thinking I was evil? I am his or her creator after-all. Many religions have roots within each other; even Christianity and Islam, thus to call Christendom and Christianity complete BS is to call your own religion, or at least some aspects, complete BS. So Allah doesn't actually forgive if you ask. He either forgives if you are a Muslim (w/o asking for forgivenance) or he doesn't if you aren't Muslim. A few questions. Referring specifically to the second bolded section; so they disobeyed God by not killing the baby (after all Allah sent the Angels to kill them, but they spared baby Iblis). How exactly were these "Angels" able to exercise free will and display disobedience by sparing the baby. Second question; if the Angels were ordered to destroy the Jin why were they driven to the depths of the ocean. Another display of disobedience it seems. Third question: what is the point of creating an entity with free will if when free will is displayed that counters Allah's "word" it leads them to be destroyed by the wrath of Angels? What is the actual purpose of free will if the created entities are to be destroyed by commiting actions that are not approved of. May as well only create Angels who can obey and display no disobedience and tell them to act within certain approved of parameters and enjoy themselves. Allah condemned Iblis to hell where he would reside for all of eternity for one action? Seems like the actions of a forgiving God. Also, to the following point: Is it really showing mercy to allow someone to live for xxx amount of years of peace to then be sentenced to hell for the rest of eternity? It seems to me that knowing your fate after this "mercy" period would be a torture in and of itself and no display of mercy. Often the thought of a punishment is worse than it itself. TLDR: story full of plot holes and contradictions. ^^^^ what this guy said ^^^^ Quote Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moreau Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) If I were to have a son, or daughter, and beat, sexually abuse, and scorn (as well as doing anything else you may see as evil) him, or her would he, or she, be deranged in thinking I was evil? I am his or her creator after-all. The mother is merely the vessel of Allah's creation, it is He who breaths life into the fetus, and it is only by His permission the pregnancy even takes place. As Muslims we do not reduce Allah into parts by saying "Allah is just Good" for example, rather we believe Allah is one and unique in the context of all his names and attributes like The all-Merciful, The Mercy-Giving, The King, The Holy, The Source of Peace, The Guardian of Faith, The Protector, The Mighty, The Compeller, The Victorious, The Creator, The Inventor, The Designer, The Forgiver, The Subduer, The Bestower, The Provider, The Opener, The Knower, The Straightener, The Expander, The Abaser, The Exalter, The Honourer, The Dishonourer, The All-Hearing The All-seeing, The Judge, The Just, The Subtle, The Aware, The Forbearer, The Magnificent, The All-Forgiving, The Benefactor, The High, The Greatest, The Preserver, The Nourisher, The Reckoner, The Glorious, The Generous, The Observer, The Responsive, The All-Embracing, The Wise, The Loving, The Majestic, The Resurrector, The Witness, The Truth, The Provident, The Strong, The Firm, The Protecting Friend, The Praiseworthy, The Calculator, The Originator, The Renewer, The Life-Giver, The Giver of Death, The living, The Self-Existing, The Present, The Most Glorious, The Unique, The One, the Eternal, The Able, The All-Powerful, The Expediter, The Delayer, the first, The last, The Manifest, The Hidden, The Governor, The Supreme, The Good, The Acceptor of Repentance, The Avenger, The Pardoner, The Gentle, The Eternal Sovereign, The Lord of Glory and Nobility, The Equitable, The Gatherer, The Self-Sufficient, The Enricher, The Giver, The Withholder, The Loss-Causer, The Favourer, The Light, The Guide, The Originator , The Everlasting, The Inheritor, The Guide to the Right Path, The Most Patient and Great is His Majesty. Perceived evil and suffering in the world can easily be explained by some of Allah's attributes like "the Severe in Punishment" and "the Wise", as it can be due to Allah's punishment for our sins and bad actions or His wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. Though we may not be able to evaluate what the wisdom is, it does not mean it is not there. To argue such a thing would be a logical fallacy, known as the argument from ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam). Many religions have roots within each other; even Christianity and Islam, thus to call Christendom and Christianity complete BS is to call your own religion, or at least some aspects, complete BS. Christian scripture has been shown to have been corrupted by man - severely deviating from the pure monotheism of Jesus Christ and earlier messengers (peace be upon them all) - whilst this is simply not the case with the Quran. So Allah doesn't actually forgive if you ask. He either forgives if you are a Muslim (w/o asking for forgivenance) or he doesn't if you aren't Muslim. No, Muslims still need to ask Allah for forgiveness for any sins they do, and Allah can forgive both Muslims and Non-Muslims who ask Him for forgiveness, but there is one sin Allah said he would never forgive and that is "associating partners with Him" (if someone dies not having repented from it). A few questions. Referring specifically to the second bolded section; so they disobeyed God by not killing the baby (after all Allah sent the Angels to kill them, but they spared baby Iblis). How exactly were these "Angels" able to exercise free will and display disobedience by sparing the baby. Second question; if the Angels were ordered to destroy the Jin why were they driven to the depths of the ocean. Another display of disobedience it seems. Destroy =/= Completely Exterminate. Third question: what is the point of creating an entity with free will if when free will is displayed that counters Allah's "word" it leads them to be destroyed by the wrath of Angels? What is the actual purpose of free will if the created entities are to be destroyed by commiting actions that are not approved of. May as well only create Angels who can obey and display no disobedience and tell them to act within certain approved of parameters and enjoy themselves. And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful." They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise." [2:30-32] Allah has given us knowledge he has not given to the Angels and has honoured us with the ability to worship him out of our own free will. So humanity has the potential and ability to do a lot of good, as well as a lot of evil, both are within our grasp and the final judgement is with Allah. Allah condemned Iblis to hell where he would reside for all of eternity for one action? Seems like the actions of a forgiving God. Also, to the following point: Is it really showing mercy to allow someone to live for xxx amount of years of peace to then be sentenced to hell for the rest of eternity? It seems to me that knowing your fate after this "mercy" period would be a torture in and of itself and no display of mercy. Often the thought of a punishment is worse than it itself. All Iblis/Satan has to do is ask Allah for forgiveness but his jealousy, pride, and arrogance won't allow him. Edited March 29, 2016 by Moreau III Quote Signed by Sultan Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliteCanada Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) The mother is merely the vessel of Allah's creation, it is He who breaths life into the fetus, and it is only by His permission the pregnancy even takes place. As Muslims we do not reduce Allah into parts by saying "Allah is just Good" for example, rather we believe Allah is one and unique in the context of all his names and attributes like The all-Merciful. Yeah no to the first bit. The concept of free will contradicts there needing to be "His" permission for anything to take place. If that were so, the concept of permission, none have free will to pro-create and didn't He give us this power of free will? Question for some of the titles, but let's start off at one of them. If he is all-merciful why condemn any to an eternity of hell. I do not ask whether or not they deserve an eternity of hell, but how an all-merciful God could do this. The question is: how does an all-merciful god condemn some to an eternity of suffering. They deserve it is not an answer, for the be all-merciful you must give mercy to all (i.e., even those deserving of pain). Even if you consider He to be all-Wise, how could an all-Merciful entity do the aforementioned on that title alone. Perceived evil and suffering in the world can easily be explained by some of Allah's attributes like "the Severe in Punishment" and "the Wise", as it can be due to Allah's punishment for our sins and bad actions or His wisdom, as there may be divine wisdom in permitting evil and suffering. Though we may not be able to evaluate what the wisdom is, it does not mean it is not there. To argue such a thing would be a logical fallacy, known as the argument from ignorance (argumentum ad ignorantiam). Can one be called all-merciful if they intentionally cause evil and suffering as punishment for our sins? Are the two ideas not inherently contradictions? Christian scripture has been corrupted by man and has severely deviated from the pure monotheism of Jesus Christ and earlier messengers (peace be upon them all); that is simply not the case with the Quran. That doesn't stop there being roots in each other, and so my question remains for Abu. I ask how he can call Christendom/Christianity as total bs if there are indeed roots. Then he is calling at least some aspects of Islam as complete BS as well. What I am therefore saying is that claim he made is the actual bs here. No, Muslims still need to ask Allah for forgiveness for any sins they do, and Allah can forgive both Muslims and Non-Muslims who ask Him for forgiveness but there is one sin Allah said he would never forgive and that is "associating partners with Him". The bolded part is in direct contrast to what Abu said about not needing to ask to be forgiven if you are Muslim. Remember the point of my post was asking Abu how he could justify his statements, not what your beliefs are (though that would be an interesting talk). What do you mean by associating partners with Him? Can you clarify that; for I believe ik what you mean, but not certain. Here's to charity's sake. Destroy =/= Completely Exterminate. Even if I accept this sparing of the baby is still a violation of the order from God to destroy all. Any response to that? And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful." They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise." [2:30-32] Allah has given us knowledge he has not given to the Angels and has honoured us with the ability to worship him out of our own free will. So humanity has the potential and ability to do a lot of good, as well as a lot of evil, both are within our grasp and the final judgement is with Allah. TLDR: We're created as an experiment to see if we will obey Him and naught else with our own free will. Damned be those who do not. Correct? Btw if the goal is to see who obeys him why not present himself to all in his actual all-powerful form and see who obeys knowing he exists. It is hard to obey without seeing as the old adage goes "seeing is believing." All Iblis/Satan has to do is ask Allah for forgiveness but his jealousy, pride, and arrogance won't allow him. This is contrary to Abu's post. Most of what you said is. Is Abu misinformed and a false "recruiter" to Allah then? What would his punishment for misleading and misinforming over the word of Allah be would you think? Edited March 29, 2016 by EliteCanada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I really dislike that so many people really just can't think, I mean the likes of Abu and Moreau III not being able to comprehend an evil god is all quite sad. Even primitive people could pick up that concept. Doesn't help that evil is everywhere and Abrahamic faiths try to portray the devil as a loser who is nowhere near God's power level as he's unbeatable. Even a "primitive" religion like Balinese Animism makes more sense for the good god Barong is evenly matched with the evil god Rangda thereby representing the eternal battle between good and evil. As Muslims we do not reduce Allah into parts by saying "Allah is just Good" for example, rather we believe Allah is one and unique in the context of all his names and attributes like The all-Merciful, The Mercy-Giving, The King, The Holy, The Source of Peace, The Guardian of Faith, The Protector, The Mighty, The Compeller, The Victorious, The Creator, The Inventor, The Designer, The Forgiver, The Subduer, The Bestower, The Provider, The Opener, The Knower, The Straightener, The Expander, The Abaser, The Exalter, The Honourer, The Dishonourer, The All-Hearing The All-seeing, The Judge, The Just, The Subtle, The Aware, The Forbearer, The Magnificent, The All-Forgiving, The Benefactor, The High, The Greatest, The Preserver, The Nourisher, The Reckoner, The Glorious, The Generous, The Observer, The Responsive, The All-Embracing, The Wise, The Loving, The Majestic, The Resurrector, The Witness, The Truth, The Provident, The Strong, The Firm, The Protecting Friend, The Praiseworthy, The Calculator, The Originator, The Renewer, The Life-Giver, The Giver of Death, The living, The Self-Existing, The Present, The Most Glorious, The Unique, The One, the Eternal, The Able, The All-Powerful, The Expediter, The Delayer, the first, The last, The Manifest, The Hidden, The Governor, The Supreme, The Good, The Acceptor of Repentance, The Avenger, The Pardoner, The Gentle, The Eternal Sovereign, The Lord of Glory and Nobility, The Equitable, The Gatherer, The Self-Sufficient, The Enricher, The Giver, The Withholder, The Loss-Causer, The Favourer, The Light, The Guide, The Originator , The Everlasting, The Inheritor, The Guide to the Right Path, The Most Patient and Great is His Majesty. You missed one, The Demiurge. Christian scripture has been shown to have been corrupted by man - severely deviating from the pure monotheism of Jesus Christ and earlier messengers (peace be upon them all) - whilst this is simply not the case with the Quran. Are you not aware a great many people believe your religion is a scam dreamed up by a man in the desert? Do not throw stones in glass houses, Islam is an incredibly corrupt religion that has to murder the competition and threaten to kill it's believers if they leave to keep retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliteCanada Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Are you not aware a great many people believe your religion is a scam dreamed up by a man in the desert? Do not throw stones in glass houses, Islam is an incredibly corrupt religion that has to murder the competition and threaten to kill it's believers if they leave to keep retention. I believe you misunderstood what he was saying. He's speaking scripture not religion itself. The Christian bible having been made, and remade throughout the years by priests and popes so as to contort the "original" bible's message to meet the, sometimes, political requirements of the time. I have no idea if that's the case with Quaran or not however. TLDR: where the religion came from is not what he was referring to as you appear to have construed the message to mean Edited March 29, 2016 by EliteCanada 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I believe you misunderstood what he was saying. He's speaking scripture not religion itself. The Christian bible having been made, and remade throughout the years by priests and popes so as to contort the "original" bible's message to meet the, sometimes, political requirements of the time. I have no idea if that's the case with Quaran or not however. I am aware but felt like laying that one down for some reason at the time. In regards to Islam the corruption is easy to find. It's the Hadiths that were a collection of sayings put together if I remember correctly. Most could well just have been some random religious teacher writing them and attributing it to Mohammed. After all when you have a religion that states he's the most perfect guy ever and everything he says is cool... that leaves a lot of room for corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliteCanada Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I am aware but felt like laying that one down for some reason at the time. In regards to Islam the corruption is easy to find. It's the Hadiths that were a collection of sayings put together if I remember correctly. Most could well just have been some random religious teacher writing them and attributing it to Mohammed. After all when you have a religion that states he's the most perfect guy ever and everything he says is cool... that leaves a lot of room for corruption. IMO he wasn't throwing stones in a glass house with what you quoted him saying, but instead criticizing the distortion/corruption (through distortion) that the Christian bible went through throughout the ages. IMO the corruption of Christianity/being Islamic is outside of the realm of discussion he was referring to. I believe the two are intrinsically related, but with a few, but significant differences between the two that makes it that they shouldn't be discussed together as though they are the same. Could be wrong. Edited March 29, 2016 by EliteCanada 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 IMO he wasn't throwing stones in a glass house with what you quoted him saying, but instead criticizing the distortion/corruption (through distortion) that the Christian bible went through throughout the ages. IMO the corruption of Christianity/being Islamic is outside of the realm of discussion he was referring to. I believe the two are intrinsically related, but with a few, but significant differences between the two that makes it that they shouldn't be discussed together as though they are the same. Could be wrong. It's the same difference ultimately. If you take it as a corruption of Christianity like some Christians around that time did then it fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moreau Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yeah no to the first bit. The concept of free will contradicts there needing to be "His" permission for anything to take place. If that were so, the concept of permission, none have free will to pro-create and didn't He give us this power of free will? Allah gives us permission to make choices but what the outcome of those choices are is up to His discretion. For example, you and your wife may want to have a child but never be able to have one (despite lack of trying). Question for some of the titles, but let's start off at one of them. If he is all-merciful why condemn any to an eternity of hell. I do not ask whether or not they deserve an eternity of hell, but how an all-merciful God could do this. The question is: how does an all-merciful god condemn some to an eternity of suffering. They deserve it is not an answer, for the be all-merciful you must give mercy to all (i.e., even those deserving of pain). Even if you consider He to be all-Wise, how could an all-Merciful entity do the aforementioned on that title alone. Can one be called all-merciful if they intentionally cause evil and suffering as punishment for our sins? Are the two ideas not inherently contradictions? I don't accept the fact that you are reducing Allah into parts by focusing only on a single attribute instead of taking a holistic approach but i will answer your question this way: The worst of sinners on earth can turn to Allah in forgiveness and in his infinite mercy He would forgive them, so it is not Allah who is condemning them to eternity in Hell, but themselves who are doing so in suicidal fashion due to their arrogance and what their own hands have earned. [in other words: You can warn people not to jump into a pool of lava but if they put on swimming trunks and dive in head first anyway.... they only have themselves to blame.] The bolded part is in direct contrast to what Abu said about not needing to ask to be forgiven if you are Muslim. Remember the point of my post was asking Abu how he could justify his statements, not what your beliefs are (though that would be an interesting talk) Abu Haddad is correct in that if someone dies as a Muslim (without associating partners with Allah) and has mountains of sins as high as the sky.... Allah can still forgive them all. However, the principle remains that Muslims should seek forgiveness for their sins as often as possible. What do you mean by associating partners with Him? Can you clarify that; for I believe ik what you mean, but not certain. Here's to charity's sake. Believing Allah has a son or daughter or equal is associating partners with Him and is the absolute worst of sins. Even if I accept this sparing of the baby is still a violation of the order from God to destroy all. Any response to that? Respectfully, you added the "all" part. TLDR: We're created as an experiment to see if we will obey Him and naught else with our own free will. Damned be those who do not. Correct? Btw if the goal is to see who obeys him why not present himself to all in his actual all-powerful form and see who obeys knowing he exists. It is hard to obey without seeing as the old adage goes "seeing is believing." Allah bestowed upon us knowledge He did not even give to the angels and if we use it, if we ponder and reflect upon our creation, we will know to obey Him for sure. In short: This life is a test, yes. This is contrary to Abu's post. Most of what you said is. Is Abu misinformed and a false "recruiter" to Allah then? What would his punishment for misleading and misinforming over the word of Allah be would you think? Not true. I concur fully with everything Abu Haddad has said thus far. Quote Signed by Sultan Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutsuo Toi Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Those women should have been with a husband, brother, father or even a boyfriend to prevent this. Some men who trying to protect them were gone to jail for being "Racist" and "Bigot". http://www.thelocal.de/20160111/racist-attacks-ratchet-up-tension-in-cologne Tell me, how those woman will be able to stay with their husband, brother, father and boyfriend went European was full of cuck and the protector gone to concentration camp of "RACISSSS! Those asylum seekers were traitors who left their country to assad and his pigs instead of fighting for their property http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240295/Imam-tells-Muslim-migrants-breed-children-Europeans-conquer-countries-vows-trample-underfoot-Allah-willing.html "Traitor". This is why the American people and it military are far more superior than these eurocuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutsuo Toi Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) I haven't study about religion before and I can't explain about the "Good" and "Evil" of religion. But I hope this image could explain it all. Edited March 29, 2016 by lizard noob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrezj Kolarov Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The second that someone defends religion by saying "Well God probably doesn't exist, but religion is a good way to unite the people" you know something is wrong. As if reality can be reduced to the level of a video game like Civilization where Islam gives +2% effectiveness to soldiers in battle but increases social instability 5%. Isn't the purpose of existence to chase the truth? Quote People's Republic of Velika: National Information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Jerry Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 All religions are both good and evil. When you get down to brass tacks, every religion basically follows the same path in regards to being a good person and doing good works. Help your neighbors, don't steal, don't rape, don't murder, etc., etc., etc. All religions have also had their fair share of killing in the name of their supreme being. All throughout history, every religion in history has had the spotlight cast on them as being "The Evil Religion". I'm really not sure what all the discussion is about.....they all have their good sides and all have been big pieces of steaming crap at one time or another. Why do people have to hide behind religion and use that as their reasoning. If you don't like someone for a reason, just !@#$ing say so and move on, don't sit here and say, 'well god told me to kill the infidels", just say "Hey, we don't like you and we want your land"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 It's the purpose of a few to chase truth. The purpose of the herd is convenient, simple happiness. Even if the premise of their happiness is false. Some people aren't as easily amused. I wish I could believe in god and be oblivious and happy. The only purpose in life is the one each of us choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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