What is the good and evil of religion?

[Giovanni Antonio]

So within the past month, I have been thinking. What if God is actually the evil one?

 

Before humanity, according to Christian mythology, Lucifer was the most intelligent, creative, reasoning, being God had ever created. Apparently, Lucifer went against God's judgement and tried to overthrow him. Being so unsuccessful, God cast Lucifer to rule hell for all eternity. What if there is something missing? God being made out to be the most forgiving, genuine being of all time, why did he not forgive Lucifer?

 

One could say Lucifer was trying to take heaven all to himself, but what if that wasn't the case? What if Lucifer was actually trying to stop God from an evil plan? This being said, you look at history. People causing wars in the name of God, people committing awful awful things in the name of God. Did God tell them to do that? Could be yes, could be no. I mean this is all speculation

 

Lucifer/Satan was made out to be the bad one, the one who causes all bad. Why does it say in many teachings that God controls everything? You look at prostitution, traitorism, theft. Disgusting things. Why is it that God lets this happen?

 

All of the mainstream religious books like the Bible and the Quaran. They say women need to adhere to men's needs, this is basically telling you that raping women is good. And you look at satanic bibles, they say that women need to be treated as man's equal. Why is this so confusing? Has God been leading us the wrong way? No I don't think so. If you see the devil as being bad, you should. Weither God is good or bad is for the individual reading this to decide.

 

One more thing, there are so many similarities between religions like Christianism or Islam. Islam is just an overly deepened and taken way more seriously than Christianism. They are both the same God, just in different situations.

 

I am not saying God is not to be believed in, I am saying that you need to make sure deep down in your heart your God is actually doing good. Or if God is actually satanic.

 

Please tell me what I am thinking is good or bad. I need criticizm.

 

Thanks

Bye

 

EDIT: Have you ever heard of the quote "Sell your soul to the devil"? What if you saw 100 innocent people about to be killed or tortured, you can pray to God asking him to let these poor people go and that prayer never happening. Is it safe to say if you sold your soul to the devil to let these poor people go, and it does happen. Are you still going to hell for trying to do that right thing? Again there is no proof of this. Just do what feels right in your heart.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Giovanni Antonio

[GentlemenJack]

Your in the wrong forum to be asking this question

[Ayayay]

2/10 troll would not recommend

[Hereno]

god doesn't exist and satan doesn't exist, none of it makes sense or is internally coherent because it was never even intended for laymen to read it in the first place

[durmij]

Abu is going to go apeshit on you...

[EliteCanada]

god doesn't exist and satan doesn't exist, none of it makes sense or is internally coherent because it was never even intended for laymen to read it in the first place

 

I don't understand the reasoning to the making of this post. The only thing that is related to the OP is that you're talking about religion. He asked for thoughts pertaining to his post and his post is about religion and the Christian God and whether or not He is intrinsically good or not. If you don't believe that's fine and all, but I question why you made this post. This post is the equivalent of a Christian walking into a room full of atheists and saying God is real then walking out. Not saying that you are right or wrong when you say this, just that it is off-topic and unnecessary. 

 

Back to the OP now, yes what you are thinking is good. It is never good to unquestioningly obey, or follow, without any second thoughts (bad things happen when people go down this road). One should always question their beliefs, for the exceptions make the rule, if you can say that God is good despite all the twisted things going on and if you can truly justify it then all the more power to you, if not then so be it as well. However this is not a question someone can answer for you, nor should they, it is a highly subjective question that believers must ask of themselves and discover on their own.

 

If you are going to say that God is good you have to justify what you see as the evil of the world, and if you are going to say that he is satanic you have to be able to explain the miracles and the good deeds you see. Then again if you don't believe you could always say that "good" or "bad" deeds are just people being people acting upon rational choice (or whichever social theory you maintain).     

Edited March 22, 2016 by PasQC

[Fox Fire]

So within the past month, I have been thinking. What if God is actually the evil one?

 

Before humanity, according to Christian mythology, Lucifer was the most intelligent, creative, reasoning, being God had ever created. Apparently, Lucifer went against God's judgement and tried to overthrow him. Being so unsuccessful, God cast Lucifer to rule hell for all eternity. What if there is something missing? God being made out to be the most forgiving, genuine being of all time, why did he not forgive Lucifer?

 

One could say Lucifer was trying to take heaven all to himself, but what if that wasn't the case? What if Lucifer was actually trying to stop God from an evil plan? This being said, you look at history. People causing wars in the name of God, people committing awful awful things in the name of God. Did God tell them to do that? Could be yes, could be no. I mean this is all speculation

 

Lucifer/Satan was made out to be the bad one, the one who causes all bad. Why does it say in many teachings that God controls everything? You look at prostitution, traitorism, theft. Disgusting things. Why is it that God lets this happen?

 

All of the mainstream religious books like the Bible and the Quaran. They say women need to adhere to men's needs, this is basically telling you that raping women is good. And you look at satanic bibles, they say that women need to be treated as man's equal. Why is this so confusing? Has God been leading us the wrong way? No I don't think so. If you see the devil as being bad, you should. Weither God is good or bad is for the individual reading this to decide.

 

One more thing, there are so many similarities between religions like Christianism or Islam. Islam is just an overly deepened and taken way more seriously than Christianism. They are both the same God, just in different situations.

 

I am not saying God is not to be believed in, I am saying that you need to make sure deep down in your heart your God is actually doing good. Or if God is actually satanic.

 

Please tell me what I am thinking is good or bad. I need criticizm.

 

Thanks

Bye

 

EDIT: Have you ever heard of the quote "Sell your soul to the devil"? What if you saw 100 innocent people about to be killed or tortured, you can pray to God asking him to let these poor people go and that prayer never happening. Is it safe to say if you sold your soul to the devil to let these poor people go, and it does happen. Are you still going to hell for trying to do that right thing? Again there is no proof of this. Just do what feels right in your heart.

You sir, have just formulated the opinion of a reversed Christian, but more specifically, the opinion of an old friend of mine.

To sum up her beliefs:

Satan is a God of knowledge. He grants humanity with knowledge and personal intellect, in defiance of a God who opposes human knowledge and personal intellect. 

The best example of this is in Genesis when Eve meets the serpent. The Serpent grants her knowledge and in return, God punishes her. Going further back, if you buy into the story of Lilith, this further suggests the idea that God created people to be mindless and unintelligent. Suggesting that Lilith was a mistake and Eve was created from Adams rib solely so that she could not defy him. 

There are countless other examples of this "freedom fighter vs crazy dictator" type status throughout the bible. Another example is the amount of people killed by God in comparison to those killed by Satan and the reasons for which all of these people were killed. Satan seems to be far more subtle, far less direct, and extremely non-vengeful. Allowing people to make decisions rather than lashing out. 

 

Overall, I'm quite intrigued by the reversed Christian opinion that Satan is a liberator against an oppressive God. Using the same religious texts as its references, it tells a completely opposite story, that arguably makes even more sense. 

[Spite]

It's nonsense. Lucifer/Satan is barely mentioned in the Bible, and then as a tempter not some evil God. According to the story, he is just an angel. Evil acts are caused due to the necessity for free will.

 

Ps. The tree of knowledge was not literally a tree that gave you an education. It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The idea is that until that point there was only good in the world. When eve chose to disobey God's one commandment, she committed evil (original sin) and from then on the history of the world was a struggle between the good and evil in everyone.

 

Of course the story is a bunch of metaphors anyway.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Spite

[Sailor Jerry]

It's nonsense. Lucifer/Satan is barely mentioned in the Bible, and then as a tempter not some evil God. According to the story, he is just an angel. Evil acts are caused due to the necessity for free will.

 

 

God just had a better publicist.

[Giovanni Antonio]

I apologize for the meaningless post. I forgot to put it in there. Lol anyways, I just don't want to be a bad sinner because I am having doubts. That is the reason of this post. I wanted to know what the PnW community thought, I won't judge you because of your beliefs.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Giovanni Antonio

[Hereno]

I don't understand the reasoning to the making of this post. The only thing that is related to the OP is that you're talking about religion. He asked for thoughts pertaining to his post and his post is about religion and the Christian God and whether or not He is intrinsically good or not. If you don't believe that's fine and all, but I question why you made this post. This post is the equivalent of a Christian walking into a room full of atheists and saying God is real then walking out. Not saying that you are right or wrong when you say this, just that it is off-topic and unnecessary. 

 

Back to the OP now, yes what you are thinking is good. It is never good to unquestioningly obey, or follow, without any second thoughts (bad things happen when people go down this road). One should always question their beliefs, for the exceptions make the rule, if you can say that God is good despite all the twisted things going on and if you can truly justify it then all the more power to you, if not then so be it as well. However this is not a question someone can answer for you, nor should they, it is a highly subjective question that believers must ask of themselves and discover on their own.

 

If you are going to say that God is good you have to justify what you see as the evil of the world, and if you are going to say that he is satanic you have to be able to explain the miracles and the good deeds you see. Then again if you don't believe you could always say that "good" or "bad" deeds are just people being people acting upon rational choice (or whichever social theory you maintain).     

 

it's completely on topic, you're just pissed off because you don't like what i had to say

 

God just had a better publicist.

 

have you read the bible?

[EliteCanada]

it's completely on topic, you're just pissed off because you don't like what i had to say

 

 

have you read the bible?

 

Is it possible to be pissed off at what you said if I completely and utterly do not care about the material of the comment? Be an atheist, Muslim, Islam, or believe in Judaism, Christianity, Sikhism, or even Pastafarianism and I wouldn't care nor judge you or anyone else at all based off of that alone 

 

You seem to be mad that someone called you out on your completely off-topic and irrelevant post. Guess what, saying God isn't real isn't an on topic response to, "what is the good or evil of religion". It's just a person not believing in God saying that he doesn't believe. A thread being about religion doesn't make all religion posts on topic to the OP.

 

Also, lol to your second "comment" (if you can even call it that much). Talk about completely missing the point in posts.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Someone

[Hereno]

 

 Is it possible to be pissed off at what you said if I completely and utterly do not care? Be an atheist, Muslim, Islam, or believe in Judaism, Christianity, Sikhism, or even Pastafarianism and I wouldn't care at all

 

You seem to be mad that someone called you out on your completely off-topic and irrelevant post. Guess what, saying God isn't real isn't an on topic response to is God good or evil. It's just a person not believing in God saying that he doesn't believe. A topic being religious doesn't make all religious posts on topic

 

Also, lol to your second "comment" (if you can even call it that much). Talk about completely missing the point in posts.

 

 

the op is about an alternate interpretation of the bible

 

you can interpret the bible to say just about anything by ignoring certain things and taking other things out of context

 

it is not internally consistent and until the last few hundred years most of the people who were christians could not read at all, let alone in latin

 

in fact, in england, it was at one point made against the law for persons of "lower" upbringings, and women, to read the bible

 

i guess they left that part out in sunday school

 

point being, my post is completely relevant, and going "lol, no, you're mad" is just lol worthy to me

[EliteCanada]

 

the op is about an alternate interpretation of the bible

 

you can interpret the bible to say just about anything by ignoring certain things and taking other things out of context

 

it is not internally consistent and until the last few hundred years most of the people who were christians could not read at all, let alone in latin

 

in fact, in england, it was at one point made against the law for persons of "lower" upbringings, and women, to read the bible

 

i guess they left that part out in sunday school

 

point being, my post is completely relevant, and going "lol, no, you're mad" is just lol worthy to me

 

The OP is questioning an alternative view on looking upon whether or not religion, specifically the Christian one, is good or evil. That's it that's all.

 

It isn't asking you if God itself is real, which all your first post did was say that He isn't real, the bible isn't internally coherent, nor was it meant for a laymen to read, and so that begs the question how is saying the equivalent to, "lol he's not real and you're kind've stupid if you think he is" relevant to the OP? Answer this question if you are going to answer any question. 

 

Already knew that about England, never been to a Sunday school, and your post is completely not relevant. Again just answering "God isn't real, nor was it meant for a layment to read" to a question asking about the morality of religion, Christianity specifically, isn't on topic. It's just you stating your religious stand-point that no one asked about. 

 

Guess what I never said, "lol, no, you're mad." I said you seem to be due to the defensiveness of your response, "you're just pissed that you don't like I said". 

 

Edit: I hope you don't think that I'm a Christian or believe in God because I can capitalize proper nouns and dislike meaningless "God isn't real" posts.

 

Another Edit: I also don't want to come off as on a high horse or that I dislike you/am flaming you. Not the intent. Just trying to convey that there is and isn't a proper thread to discuss whether or not God is actually a real entity and that this isn't really the one for that. See too many threads, on too many forums, get derailed by such posts that are so poorly related to the OP.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Someone

[Hereno]

as for the other part, the reason why i asked if they had actually read the bible is because it makes god look like a real !@#$ing !@#$, and not just for all the weird shit jesus did like (is this the same thread?) allowing demons to slaughter a herd of pigs because they asked nicely

 

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

 

rather than make you read through all those, i'll just provide this for you:

 

5 Therefore the Lord his God delivered him into the hands of the king of Aram. The Arameans defeated him and took many of his people as prisoners and brought them to Damascus.

 

He was also given into the hands of the king of Israel, who inflicted heavy casualties on him. 6 In one day Pekah son of Remaliah killed a hundred and twenty thousand soldiers in Judah—because Judah had forsaken the Lord, the God of their ancestors. 7 Zikri, an Ephraimite warrior, killed Maaseiah the king’s son, Azrikam the officer in charge of the palace, and Elkanah, second to the king. 8 The men of Israel took captive from their fellow Israelites who were from Judah two hundred thousand wives, sons and daughters. They also took a great deal of plunder, which they carried back to Samaria.

2 chronicles 28:5-8

 

not to mention that time he killed everyone on earth in a great flood, destroyed the cities of sodom and gomorrah, etc.

 

but if it makes you feel better to know, god didn't like that he took 200,000 slaves, so he made them free them in his anger

 

9 But a prophet of the Lord named Oded was there, and he went out to meet the army when it returned to Samaria. He said to them, “Because the Lord, the God of your ancestors, was angry with Judah, he gave them into your hand. But you have slaughtered them in a rage that reaches to heaven. 10 And now you intend to make the men and women of Judah and Jerusalem your slaves. But aren’t you also guilty of sins against the Lord your God? 11 Now listen to me! Send back your fellow Israelites you have taken as prisoners, for the Lord’s fierce anger rests on you.â€

feel free to read the whole story here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2028

[Hereno]

>i'm not a christian i'm just wrong

 

k then shut up and stop making me derail this guy's thread to make a point to you

[EliteCanada]

as for the other part, the reason why i asked if they had actually read the bible is because it makes god look like a real !@#$ !@#$, and not just for all the weird shit jesus did like (is this the same thread?) allowing demons to slaughter a herd of pigs because they asked nicely

 

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

 

rather than make you read through all those, i'll just provide this for you:

 

 

2 chronicles 28:5-8

 

not to mention that time he killed everyone on earth in a great flood, destroyed the cities of sodom and gomorrah, etc.

 

but if it makes you feel better to know, god didn't like that he took 200,000 slaves, so he made them free them in his anger

 

 

feel free to read the whole story here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2028

 

Wow that's on topic to post, but doesn't disprove the other guy's post. "God" clearly did have a better publicist if it has made over two billion, according to some estimates, and let me repeat this over two billion adherents in some way or another to His "word." Regardless of the material of the bible the publicist did well seeing the overhwhelming support He (God) has had for him, or nah maybe you're right and he did have a shit publicist. That "publicist" only made billions of people support God. Should've had J.K. Rowling's publicist(s).

 

 

>i'm not a christian i'm just wrong

 

k then shut up and stop making me derail this guy's thread to make a point to you

 

Also didn't say I wasn't Christian. I'm saying I didn't say one way or another, and even if I was or wasn't why would I, "shut up"? Is believing a criteria to respond to you and your posts? 

 

Also lol, I'm making you derail this guy's thread. Oh lord, if I only I knew I could make people do things just by disagreeing with them I'd have been incredibly better off than I am now Q_Q. Please.

 

Well now if you can't actually show how your topic was at all relevant to OP and not just some "God isn't real you fools" I think I'll be done responding to you friend

 

P.S. Love the way you completely bi-passed my question of how your original post was on-topic given what I said. Smooth. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Someone

[Giovanni Antonio]

Why did this turn into an entertainment thread? Shouldn't we be talking about me??? not you XD

[Doktor Avalanche]

Why did this turn into an entertainment thread? Shouldn't we be talking about me??? not you XD

To put it back on topic, your view/question shows that you are questioning the authenticity of the infallible, almighty Creator's Universal "goodness". Interestingly, you seem to approach the question with a Gnostic approach, that the Creator of matter is the actual evil in the Universe while the Spiritual Enlightened bearer is the Spirit of Sophia(Wisdom) who stands with an Enlightened Messiah who desires to free mankind of our mortal coil/physical chains.

 

Also, if you research Melek'Taus there is a correlation between the Setian/Lucifer concept found in the modern Temple of Set practices and the Yezidi teachings that show that Melek'Taus gave enlightenment to mankind through partaking of the Tree of Knowledge. If you look even further this is a concept found among most Satanic teachings which strive for breaking free from the bonds of self-punishment inflicted by years of guilt worshiping a Narcissistic, Self-Gratifying, Totalitarian, Creator God.

[Spite]

I always find the "guilt is a burden" arguments are adopted by people with low moral character. I don't strictly follow any particular set of hard-and-fast rules, but I do follow a general judeo-christian ethical code. I don't find it particularly restrictive, and breaking the cardinal laws - by killing, raping, etc - isn't what I'd call enlightened. Also, though it isn't particularly an argument against so much as an observation, I find there is a strong link between satanists and pot-smoking, dreadlocked, artsy, studenty, smarter-than-thou types who tend to be narcissistic and self-satisfying. 

[EliteCanada]

I find there is a strong link between satanists and pot-smoking, dreadlocked, artsy, studenty, smarter-than-thou types who tend to be narcissistic and self-satisfying. 

 

No comment 

[Rozalia]

I thought this thread would be about something else...

 

Asmodeus is correct in that Gnosticism is what you're talking about.

 

There are variations I believe but basically how I'd put it briefly... In the spiritual realm Sophia a aspect of god desired to create a being that was not absolute, that being is the monster, Demiurge, also known as Yahweh, Allah, all those other Jewish names too hard for me to spell from memory, and whatever other name you attribute to "god". Ashamed of it Sophia hid him away in what is the material realm, hiding the spiritual realm. 

In the material realm the Demiurge was alone and came to the conclusion he was the beginning of things, the absolute god. Possessing considerable power granted to him by Sophia (not that he knows it) he creates the world, people, animals, so on, and as ultimately the power the Demiurge uses come from Sophia humanity has a spark of her power in them. 

 

The Demiurge intended for humanity to be mindless automatons worshiping him but God sent Lucifer to grant help grant Gnosis (knowledge) to humanity. The Demiurge told Eve that if she ate the apple that she would die but Lucifer told her that the Demiurge was a liar, so she ate, and she indeed did not die. Then came the religions of course of the Demiurge which were created to control humanity and keep them as his slaves. Jesus Christ (Lucifer I believe) however appeared to help us on the path to gaining Gnosis. When one gains Gnosis however the minions of the Demiurge will seek to destroy them so he then died obviously but that obviously wasn't the end for Christ, nor is the end for anyone who gains Gnosis. Demiurge than corrupted the teachings creating the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox, and so on but Christ has already led the way so to speak. 

 

The Demiurge's Heaven and Hell are false, for what can be defined as Heaven is of a realm he cannot see, and hell is Earth. When a person dies they are merely reborn on earth, unless they attained Gnosis than they are freed from the Demiurge's grasp. Ways to gain it I'm not totally sure as different versions would have different ways but I believe one way was sexual abstinence. Another was charity (as in serious charity, not giving a coin now and then),. Might be more. As hell is earth and the Demiurge can't punish you more logically if you're a bad person it doesn't matter if you're a bandit, rapist, genocider... everybody gets the same punishment, another walk through the hell that is earth. 

 

And thats it I think. Quite honestly Lucifer being the good guy and God the bad guy makes far more sense. Why does evil exist for one? Why are there so many grand statements but they seem to be false? Simple, he ain't absolute for one and secondly he is the god of evil so of course there would be evil in the world. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by Rozalia

[Doktor Avalanche]

I always find the "guilt is a burden" arguments are adopted by people with low moral character. I don't strictly follow any particular set of hard-and-fast rules, but I do follow a general judeo-christian ethical code. I don't find it particularly restrictive, and breaking the cardinal laws - by killing, raping, etc - isn't what I'd call enlightened. Also, though it isn't particularly an argument against so much as an observation, I find there is a strong link between satanists and pot-smoking, dreadlocked, artsy, studenty, smarter-than-thou types who tend to be narcissistic and self-satisfying. 

Why is it most of the experiences you have with most associations ever mentioned on the forums always remind me of the stereotypes I would see only on college campuses?

[Ayayay]

Why is it most of the experiences you have with most associations ever mentioned on the forums always remind me of the stereotypes I would see only on college campuses?

Because he's obviously in High School

 

Gawd, tink b4 u typ

Edited March 26, 2016 by Metro

[Spite]

Why is it most of the experiences you have with most associations ever mentioned on the forums always remind me of the stereotypes I would see only on college campuses?

Possibly because most people grow out of stuff like satanism by the time they're 28 and have proper jobs instead of slumming it as bar staff or music shop clerks.