Reply to Racism Discussion (Because there isn't enough of that. :L)

[Solomon]

Are you saying you don't believe in the 1st amendment? 

The First Amendment doesn't grant carte blanche. There are laws relating to defamation (libel/slander), profane speech, incitement to violence, unsubstantiated advertising claims, threatening speech, and more which limit "freedom of speech". In principle, freedom of expression is a good idea but it's not an absolute religious doctrine!

[Fox Fire]

No I'm giving you examples of things that are illegal to say. You're not allowed to lie in the court of law because it erodes the legal system. Most people agree that free speech does not apply in that case (and it legally doesn't either). Same with slander. In most countries you can also be arrested for being a part in making someone commit suicide.

 

Free speech is an important constitutional right but if you don't know what purpose it severs and when why it doesn't apply, you're basically talking out of your ass. You don't care about free speech, you just use it as an excuse to accept certain acts that don't affect you personally.

 

No constitutional right should ever work in all cases. Freedom of religion does not mean you're free to do whatever you want in the name of God. Pleading the fifth does not mean you're protected from being prosecuted in the court of law. The right to bear arms does not mean you get to do whatever you want with your guns. Each and every constitution has its limits, for good reasons. Same goes with free speech.

What does any of that have to do with a CSA flag? Obviously, I can't stand outside the white house shouting that I'm going to kill the president. I can't fly an airplane either, but that has nothing to do with my right to wave a flag. You see, there is a considerable difference between convincing someone to kill themselves and and flying a cross in my yard that might hurt peoples feel goods. It's a slippery slope argument. I can say anything I want is offensive, like your comment, is slander. But that doesn't mean that anyone has any reason to give a !@#$. That doesn't mean you should be prosecuted in court for posting this comment. That would be completely retarded.

I do care about free speech, and it very much effects me personally. There is no shortage of white supremacists and homophobes where I live. But I'm not making any attempts to silence their opinions just because it offends me. On the contrary, I prefer to hear them.

[Solomon]

... I can say anything I want is offensive, like your comment, is slander. ..

The First Amendment does give you the right to say that in your opinion something is offensive and to claim that something is slander. It also gives you the right to claim that you are a unicorn. However, if you want to get your claims legally recognized, you'll need to be able to prove them in court.

 

If you're interested, there is good legal info on slander here: http://www.hg.org/defamation.html

[Doktor Avalanche]

...and that is why the US courts are full of 1st amendment cases every year, due to people getting butthurt. Granted there are some legitimate cases regarding unsubstantiated claims.

 

The biggest set of balls I have seen in court was Joseph Burton, a Jewish Attorney, representing The National Socialist Party(the Nazis) of America demanding their right to march in Skokie, IL, a predominantly Jewish community. He won due to proving the 1st Amendment applied to their right to free speech. Even though you may not like or even be offended by what others have to say, it is still a right. More laws create less freedom. Being offended does not harm someone and this is something our current college system needs to teach.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

If you can say things like "being offended does not harm someone," it just means you haven't been offended properly throughout your lifetime.

[Abu Haddad]

I will offend trump. Give him a message one of you

I challenge him to a rap off

Then he'll understand the term offensive

[Thalmor]

If you can say things like "being offended does not harm someone," it just means you haven't been offended properly throughout your lifetime.

 

So you're in favor of censoring people who say offensive things?

[Kevin D]

1. What do you guys consider racist?

2. Do you believe there a such thing as racism against whites?

3. Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

4. Thoughts on racial stereotyping?

5. Should racism be banned, or is it a necessary downside of free speech?

My thoughts

1. Anytime someone hates a race or think a they are superior to another.

2. Yes, no matter how hard mainstream media tries.

3. It depends on how you look at it. From a historical standpoint, no. It can be thought of as a symbol of the south. However, it can be viewed as a country that was racist. I do not find it offensive, but I can see the standpoint of someone that does

4. I don't like it

5. Necessary downside. Offensive views are protected.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Kevin D

[Doktor Avalanche]

If you can say things like "being offended does not harm someone," it just means you haven't been offended properly throughout your lifetime.

All men have their own experiences, Kemal. I have suffered grievous offenses, but verbal offenses are our own choices in how we handle them. I usually consider the source of the offense and move on.

[Spite]

If someone goes out and makes a speech every day that the blacks should be lynched, that is very bad from a public order perspective. There are some aspects of public speech which are essentially hate speech and should be banned. I don't defend someone's right to be a violent racist in public as it is someone else's right not to walk down the street to buy milk and have someone screaming that they're subhuman and need to be killed.

[Doktor Avalanche]

If someone goes out and makes a speech every day that the blacks should be lynched, that is very bad from a public order perspective. There are some aspects of public speech which are essentially hate speech and should be banned. I don't defend someone's right to be a violent racist in public as it is someone else's right not to walk down the street to buy milk and have someone screaming that they're subhuman and need to be killed.

Typical. You automatically take it to the extreme. No one is running around violently screaming racist slurs at people that are walking to grocery stores to buy milk. We have harassment laws, and that is not free speech but it is called harassment. Cities and counties all across the United States requires some form of registration for a license to preach publicly, hold rallies and marches for whatever causes which include race rallies. People who oppose free speech, like you, are the ones who refused to allow the Nazis to march in Skokie, IL but luckily the United States is no longer under British control and has the ability to allow people to voice their opinions without obtaining non-violent criminal records.

.

Edited December 30, 2015 by VasiliusKonstantinos

[Tali]

Typical. You automatically take it to the extreme. No one is running around violently screaming racist slurs at people that are walking to grocery stores to buy milk. We have harassment laws, and that is not free speech but it is called harassment. Cities and counties all across the United States requires some form of registration for a license to preach publicly, hold rallies and marches for whatever causes which include race rallies. People who oppose free speech, like you, are the ones who refused to allow the Nazis to march in Skokie, IL but luckily the United States is no longer under British control and has the ability to allow people to voice their opinions without obtaining non-violent criminal records.

.

u irl

 

[Slimer]

I'd like to know what the community thinks about this stuff. Here's a few topics...

 

1. What do you guys consider racist?

2. Do you believe there a such thing as racism against whites?

3. Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

4. Thoughts on racial stereotyping?

5. Should racism be banned, or is it a necessary downside of free speech?

 

1.) The systematic oppression of a race of people

2.) Not in the United States. There can be prejudice, but the system supports white people in America.

3.) Yes, considering most of the confederate states seceded because of slavery.

4.) A tool of white supremacy

5.) 'Free Speech' is only applicable to the government. Racism has no place in a private space like Politics and War.

[A-Dean-G]

1. What do you guys consider racist?

Racism is any belief born from the idea that their are intrinsic differences in identical species which stem from physiological, psychological, or otherwise undetermined aspects attributed simply to a person's hereditary material.

2. Do you believe there a such thing as racism against whites?

Absolutely. Especially here in North Mississippi, I myself (a latino/white mix) have been the subject of much discrimination. Taunts, physical attacks, and psychological abuse all brought on because of the color of my skin. Racism knows no boundaries of race, it is only employed by those who wish to better define them.

3. Do you find the Confederate Flag offensive?

It is a symbol. I never cared to look at it for too long because it's a hideous red, white, and blue eyesore and there are better uses for the colors. It has a clear history of being attributed to violence and was a insignia of a culture dedicated to enslaving fellow man. That being said, it is a symbol that holds only as much power as it is granted. Is a left facing swastika more offensive than a right facing one? Why?

4. Thoughts on racial stereotyping?

It happens. The human brain only has the capacity to recognize minutiae even when collectively acknowledge as one macro substance. For instance, when I say "the black guy" there may be a certain image that comes to mind. Same with "the ayyslam guy" or "the big purple !@#$ dinosaur." There are infinite variations from each integer to the infinite variations of the decibel that follows. Yet, we are compelled, if not entirely sans admonition, to relegate the attributes of an entire group of people to the image of a single person. This is an extremely difficult mechanism to rewrite, which is why I in part feel for anyone who hates black people, police, raiders, synths, or what have you. It's important we understand the root of the causes behind racial profiling and racism itself to prevent it from growing like weeds in rose garden. Just as well, racism is as easy as saying "!@#$ this, I just want to be happy. Can we do that?" And the other person saying "!@#$ yes. Let's be sooooo happy, dawg."

5. Should racism be banned, or is it a necessary downside of free speech?

There is a double edged sword here. To pretend it doesn't happen or that it is criminal does nothing but stoke the fires born out of an already chaotic darkness hungry for any substance to fuel. If you ban racism, you might as well ban catty chats over tea and thinly veiled passive aggressive insults. It's superfluous and futile. Hate is powerful and poisonous. You can't ban it. You must neutralize it with compassion and good stuff.

 

 

Edit: An addendum to the list of people for whom I feel: all of them. including the ones that hate whites and latinos.

Edited December 30, 2015 by inedibleedible

[Buorhann]

Interesting.  I lived all up and down Mississippi my entire life.  Granted there are cases of racist folks, but nothing to the extreme of using violent threats.  Most times it's people looking down on those that live in the ghetto, or in particular, young men who live in poverty ( Mostly due to the views of them being lazy, considering the south tends to pride itself on the perception of hard work ).

 

 

@Slimer - Your replies?  Whoa.

[A-Dean-G]

Interesting.  I lived all up and down Mississippi my entire life.  

Granted there are cases of racist folks,  

Most times it's people looking down on those that live in the ghetto

young men who live in poverty

 

 

Yeah, and it goes both ways. White people get robbed second, believe it or not, and often times the crime that takes place will be less violent, however, given the right set of trees around the right pea-rock road, and there's nothing that can save you but you. This is why we have theories and ignorance so close to our hearts. We rely on nothing but our own disproportionately shaped experiences to give us the tools and understanding f or situations that we haven't ever been in, and so when they come around, we act foolishly to even the most simple of stimuli.

 

 

Think just right beneath Memphis, and then think midway between there and Tupelo.

Creepy stuff happens in nowhere~

[Spite]

Typical. You automatically take it to the extreme. No one is running around violently screaming racist slurs at people that are walking to grocery stores to buy milk. We have harassment laws, and that is not free speech but it is called harassment. Cities and counties all across the United States requires some form of registration for a license to preach publicly, hold rallies and marches for whatever causes which include race rallies. People who oppose free speech, like you, are the ones who refused to allow the Nazis to march in Skokie, IL but luckily the United States is no longer under British control and has the ability to allow people to voice their opinions without obtaining non-violent criminal records.

.

If nobody preaches hate then they have nothing to fear from hate speech laws surely? I think that tbh our record on freedom of speech is a lot better than yours, where as you say there are restrictions on public meetings, people get tear gassed and shot for protesting and the entire media is owned by about four people.

[A-Dean-G]

If nobody preaches hate then they have nothing to fear from hate speech laws surely? I think that tbh our record on freedom of speech is a lot better than yours, where as you say there are restrictions on public meetings, people get tear gassed and shot for protesting and the entire media is owned by about four people.

Demonstrations fall apart all the time across the globe. A record of who's done the best is platitudinous at best. Hate has its place in discussion, but hate crimes do not. It's one thing to have the Klan in your neighborhood park on their own volition, and it's another thing to have them in your personal space against your volition. There is a gratuitous filter on humanity as a whole, and fortunately, it's working, but unfortunately, it doesn't work very fast. Even in the age of information, we remain paradoxically social yet isolated beings.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

All men have their own experiences, Kemal. I have suffered grievous offenses, but verbal offenses are our own choices in how we handle them. I usually consider the source of the offense and move on.

 

This still does not validate your false statement: "being offended does not harm someone." There are many cases where even only words can drive someone to suicide. It is great you consider yourself to be capable of handling all verbal offenses you receive, but others need not share your view.

[Sailor Jerry]

This still does not validate your false statement: "being offended does not harm someone." There are many cases where even only words can drive someone to suicide. It is great you consider yourself to be capable of handling all verbal offenses you receive, but others need not share your view.

So basically what you're saying is that we should know someone's mental state before we speak?  If that were the case, this would be an awfully quite planet.  If someone is suicidal, they'll find an excuse to do it.....it doesn't have to be from what I say, it could be the fact that they were always picked last for teams or not hugged enough by mommy and/or daddy.  So to say someone committed suicide because of things that were said to them is crap.  Obviously they have other issues going on. 

[Doktor Avalanche]

This still does not validate your false statement: "being offended does not harm someone." There are many cases where even only words can drive someone to suicide. It is great you consider yourself to be capable of handling all verbal offenses you receive, but others need not share your view.

Mental/Psychological derangement is not a factor to the discussion of free speech.

[Doktor Avalanche]

u irl

 

I have more hair than that, ya bastard

[Fox Fire]

If you can say things like "being offended does not harm someone," it just means you haven't been offended properly throughout your lifetime.

Yeah, your words here for example are killing me. If you keep talking I might die. Then you should be punished for saying things. In the future, we can have the NSA monitor our minds and lock us up for thinking bad things too. I like this dark dystopia type setting. It sounds like a generic book. 

[Fox Fire]

 

If someone goes out and makes a speech every day that the blacks should be lynched, that is very bad from a public order perspective. There are some aspects of public speech which are essentially hate speech and should be banned. I don't defend someone's right to be a violent racist in public as it is someone else's right not to walk down the street to buy milk and have someone screaming that they're subhuman and need to be killed.

But then we have to draw a line that will always turn out to be extremely vague and endlessly debated between speech and hate speech. Exactly how much negativity is required to be considered hate speech? If I say I hate ISIS and want someone to kill them, is that hate speech or patriotism? What if I say I hate communism? What if call Donald Trump a sad sack of biological organs that his mother should have swallowed? 

 

If we're going to ban speech for the simple sake of protecting peoples feelings, then we might as well just go back to being led by the church. I could understand banning Nazi rallies if they consistently resulted in killings, suicides or other unnecessary deaths, but the only real problem is people being offended in ways which they will soon get over. That sounds like a small price to pay for being able to express your true beliefs, regardless of what the majority around you believe. For all anyone knows, they could all be idiots and you could be a !@#$ing genius that changes the world with very controversial beliefs. Who knows? I do at least believe that people should be treated legally fairly.

 

If tea baggers can clutter up the center of my town toting guns just so they can swap conspiracy theories about gun bans, Obamas birth certificate and spread the worst pile of misinformation I've ever heard throughout the town, I think I deserve to be able to stand on the corner with a sign that says "God hates gays". Worst possible case scenarios:

1. Someone kills me.

2. Some over sensitive kid kills themselves.

 

In both of these cases, I've really done nothing wrong. A few hundred years ago people in society would have been exposed to far worse things than discrimination and hate speech. People should be protected by governments, and I'm usually in favor of liberal arguments, but not this one. Governments should not extend themselves beyond where they are necessary. Restricting people's right to speak out publicly for the sole sake of protecting peoples feelings, because it might offend someone, is completely unnecessary. If the population feels a certain way I want to hear it. Leaders should want to hear it, regardless of how offensive it may be. 

[Fox Fire]

This still does not validate your false statement: "being offended does not harm someone." There are many cases where even only words can drive someone to suicide. It is great you consider yourself to be capable of handling all verbal offenses you receive, but others need not share your view.

Well it's great that you don't find yourself to be capable of handling all verbal offenses well?

 

I can handle my alcohol well but that argument doesn't go too well with the cops when I try driving home from the bar, if you get my drift. How sane you are and how capable you are of not doing something stupid is not the responsibility of others. It's entirely your own responsibility. If someone calls me a !@#$ it doesn't give me legal grounds to punch them in the face in self defense. How I react to it is entirely my own conscious choice. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Fox Fire