Abortion ought to be abolished, permanently!

[Kim Jong-Il]

We certainly did not all reach that conclusion. Firstly, "3 whole months" is 13 weeks, not 9 weeks. Secondly, a pregnant woman does not normally realize she is pregnant until she doesn't get her period, typically 3 or 4 weeks after conception. So, to give a woman 3 months to decide after she found out she was pregnant, abortion would be legal until the 17th week.

 

The medical argument is based on viability - a fetus can't survive outside the womb before 22 weeks of development. Either way, we're looking at close to 20 weeks, not 9.

 

we were basing it off of nerve cell development, which we found to be 13 weeks at the lastest on various sources we found

[Tali]

Brb having an abortion

>inb4 warn

[Alex]

Abortion is a grey area, thus should be left up to the individual who is actually having the abortion. If you don't agree with abortion, then don't have one.

 

"It's her body. It's her decision

Not that of state, man or religion."

 

I disagree with you, though. I'd say it's akin to murder. If it's not okay to kill a baby one day after birth, why is it okay one day before?

[Tali]

On a serious note,

 

I dont agree with abortions but its not my place to control people who want to have an abortion.

[Kyoko]

Did my comment on this topic get deleted or did I forget to post it? Either way, those that are unable to have abortions should not get as powerful an opinion on the subject as those that are able to get an abortion.

[Tali]

I disagree with you, though. I'd say it's akin to murder. If it's not okay to kill a baby one day after birth, why is it okay one day before?

I'm sure there that there is a a limit in place that after at a certain point in time its illegal to abort. If i remember correctly anyways after a certain amount of time of development its illegal to have a legal abortion

[Wayne]

When I look around my town, I often come to the conclusion that abortion should be mandatory for some people...

[The Governor]

I disagree with you, though. I'd say it's akin to murder. If it's not okay to kill a baby one day after birth, why is it okay one day before?

Who are these women who are getting an abortion one day before they give birth? That's what I want to know.

[Kim Jong-Il]

Did my comment on this topic get deleted or did I forget to post it? Either way, those that are unable to have abortions should not get as powerful an opinion on the subject as those that are able to get an abortion.

 

I can see it, it's still sitting there on the 1st page

[Kyoko]

Who are these women who are getting an abortion one day before they give birth? That's what I want to know.

Abortions in the last trimester are almost entirely because of complications in the pregnancy that would either make the fetus non-viable or put the mother and/or fetus in danger..

I can see it, it's still sitting there on the 1st page

Oh then I'm just blind then. Still good to remind people though.

[Kyubnyan]

Planned Parenthood was originally made to encourage poor black women to get abortions in an effort to get rid of the blacks... and it's working as seen in this link http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/. http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html just read the book by the founder of planned parenthood Margaret Sanger. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Birth_control_movement read the controversies section and then tell me how you feel about Planned parenthood which gets billions of tax dollars ever year to fulfill a deluded, racist, and law breaking woman who has founded government funded genocide of American minorities. 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Kyubey

[Kim Jong-Il]

Planned Parenthood was originally made to encourage poor black women to get abortions in an effort to get rid of the blacks... and it's working as seen in this link http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/. http://www.blackgenocide.org/planned.html just read the book by the founder of planned parenthood Margaret Sanger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Birth_control_movement read the controversies section and then tell me how you feel about Planned parenthood which gets billions of tax dollars ever year to fulfill a deluded, racist, and law breaking woman who has founded government funded genocide of American minorities. 

 

that almost sounded like satire

[WISD0MTREE]

I think that abortion clinics should follow all gun store restrictions. I hope they enjoy shady parts of cities, having to wait for the employees to open the door from inside, and having strict environmental standards. 

 

And having your car stereo missing when you're done. 

Edited August 1, 2015 by WISD0MTREE

[Kim Jong-Il]

or some The Onion bs

[Kyubnyan]

I think that if you don't want a baby

1. make him wear a condom

2. take morning after abortion pills

3. drink alcohol 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Kyubey

[Kim Jong-Il]

I think that if you don't want a baby

1. make him wear a condom

2. take morning after abortion pills

3. drink alcohol 

 

the alcohol one will just heighten your chance of the baby having defects D:

[Kyubnyan]

Pennyroyal can be used safely and effectively IF used early enough. Like within a week of a missed period. Also, blue cohosh and extremely large doses of Vitamin C.

 

Also, menstrual extraction.

 

And what about D&C's? Will they be outlawed as well? Wouldn't that be a loophole. They are practiced for other conditions besides abortion of a fetus. I'm not a doctor or a lawyer (or a qualified herbalist, for that matter), but that seems like the kind of procedure a sympathetic doctor could legally and safely perform, right?

[Kyoko]

Abortion on demand without apology for any reason is the only way to go really.

[Kyubnyan]

Abortion on demand without apology for any reason is the only way to go really.

Thank you for your well thought out and insightful argument. But seriously at least try and back up your point instead of simply saying abortion is the only thing to do when that is obviously not the only way

Edited August 1, 2015 by Kyubey

[Dwemyrn]

If a woman gets raped, I'd say it ought to be her choice. But to say that an unborn baby is not a person seems a little ridiculous. Would you be okay with terminating a pregnancy one day before birth? How about two days? Three? When does it become "okay" to kill the baby?

Honestly you're a man, I am man and many others here commenting are men. When it comes down to it is not at all your decision on if a woman should or shouldn't be aloud to abort her baby. This a topic for women to debate not men. They're the ones who have to hold the child for nine months and go through the pain of labor, not you, your the man, all you did was make her have to go through that. 

[WISD0MTREE]

Honestly you're a man, I am man and many others here commenting are men. When it comes down to it is not at all your decision on if a woman should or shouldn't be aloud to abort her baby. This a topic for women to debate not men. They're the ones who have to hold the child for nine months and go through the pain of labor, not you, your the man, all you did was make her have to go through that. 

Ok. 

 

It should be legal for people drinking Jack Daniels at 8:45 on 8/1/15 to kill people. 

[Braunsberg]

One of the arguments against abortion that it is a "woman's body" and that she has a "woman right." But it seems like people have forgotten that it is our body but the government does not allow for consuming drugs and is in a never-ending "war on drug." Should we violate the drug laws, we're imprison for months, if not years.  It is our body but we can't smoke marijuana, though that is changing slowly. It is our body, but we can't consume alcohol until we're 21. It is our body, but parents children are required to be vaccinated. It is our body, but we have to adhere to health regulations. It is our body, but we can't do many things with it. My point is, the government has some control over our body, which makes women body no different. If we want to advocate for a woman's body, then we ought to do the same for a man's body, a child's body, and a animal's body.

It's not very logical to compare things like vaccinations, drugs and alcohol to abortion. There is a very firm reason why the government takes those things seriously: because people who refuse vaccinations can spread otherwise-controllable diseases to other people, which can often produce serious problems, and because people who are under the influence of drugs and alcohol can - and frequently do - bring harm to others, whether through violence or lack of control (for example, DUI accidents). It is the responsibility of the government to ensure its citizens are as safe as possible within reason, and to do that there are laws that control vaccinations, drugs, alcohol, et cetera.

 

Simply because the government exercises some control over people's bodies does not justify extra control over women. They must follow the same drugs and alcohol laws as men and children, and receive vaccinations in the same manner. You are absolutely correct in the statement that, under the law, a women's body should be treated no differently than a man's - and therefore, since men aren't lawfully forced to give birth, neither should women.

 

 

Another argument I hear is that why bring a baby into this world if we won't be able to care for it, feed it, educate it, and more. While this makes sense, let's not forget that there are people currently in those conditions, and although their condition is bad, it is minimal. Since we seem to want to abort a baby because of the reasons given, then those who are facing those same reasons should kill themselves. Is that what we're trying to say? Also, if people don't want babies, they ought not to engage in those acts that will lead to the female being pregnant, unless they are positioned to have one. We're pretty much giving teens (and women I should say) free pass and letting them abort their baby simply because they are not 'ready' to care for one. I've been in a relationship, but I've not engage in sexual intercourse of any kind, because one, it is not the only means to show our love for each other, and two, I'm not ready for a baby, therefore, I want to avoid getting my girlfriend pregnancy. Now if I'm done with college and I have a career, and my wife and I are able to care for each other, we will consider starting a family. But we ought to first examine our condition. But most high school girls and boys (even middle school) are not thinking about this and the girl winds up pregnant, which leaves two things to happen, the "father" leaves (some stay), and the girl and her family get in a dispute and she either keep the baby or think about aborting the baby.

It doesn't fix the problem to just say that if a woman doesn't want to have a baby, she shouldn't engage in intercourse - chiefly because rape is frighteningly common for women. In any case, the dilemma is that if you defend the rights of a fetus, you are overriding the rights of a woman; conversely, if you advocate for women's rights, you are overriding the rights allowed to the fetus. To me, it makes much more sense to respect the life of a grown, developed human who can fully think and feel, rather than a fetus that is not even self-aware.

 

 

I really did not want to touch on this one, but a major argument that I hear is that why should a woman who is raped be forced to carry her rapist baby? This is perhaps the strongest case abortion advocates have, I'd admit that. I guess I can say rape is unethical, but so is taking another life, or does that life not matter, simply because it cannot speak for itself? Why should the child have to pay the ultimate price? It is important to note that a woman does not have to carry the baby, she can if she wants, but there are alternatives to abortion, like adoption. People are willing to adopt children and I rather have that than hearing a baby aborted, and I think that is rather reasonable than a woman aborting a child.

Put yourself in the situation of a female rape victim: you have recently been brutalized and sexually violated by a strange, disgusting person, and you've been mentally traumatized by the incident. You will probably not regain your former sense of security for years and years, and you will remember this awful event for the rest of your life, and very possibly have constant nightmares about it. Then you find out that you're pregnant - and instead of allowing you to get rid of the tiny fetus, the law instead is forcing you to carry out the pregnancy in full, and give life to the result of the traumatic incident. That is a very sickening, twisted view of justice.

 

It is important to realize that abortion don't just take fully-developed babies almost ready for birth and bash them or stab them or rip them apart. Abortion almost exclusively eliminates feti that are small and still in fundamental development - often before they even have anything you could call a brain anyway. That is the chief reason why you cannot point at pro-choice people and ask them if they'd be okay with killing a newborn infant, or an infant soon before birth. Babies do not develop a huge portion of neural connections until reasonably late in pregnancy, and until that bloom of neural activity, a fetus is not much more than a cluster of organs.

 

You also have to realize that pro-choice people don't like abortion. I think it is sad when a woman makes that decision. But that doesn't mean women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy involving a lot of pain and stress, not to mention years and years of commitment if adoption is not involved. It is not very logical to treat a developing fetus in the same regard as a walking, thinking, breathing human - we kill deer, cows, pigs, rats, mice, etc. on a daily basis, and all of those creatures are more developed and neurologically capable than a fetus. We don't find much of a problem with killing those creatures because we don't consider them self-aware and intelligent enough to suffer much; and if you are fine with those animals being killed, then it doesn't make much sense to fiercely defend a human fetus that isn't even developed enough to feel pain.

 

In short, if you oppose abortion in favor of the rights of a developing fetus, then you are effectively putting the rights of a cluster of organs without pain, thought or awareness in higher regard than the rights of a conscious, active adult human being. Abortion does indeed end the life of what would become a human being, but we end the lives of countless animals that actively suffer through their deaths, while a fetus cannot feel or perceive anything. Unless you are in active opposition to killing any animal, then it doesn't make very much sense to place a fetus in the same legal status as an adult human. And for that reason, I support the rights of adult women to maintain their way of life in the event of an undesired pregnancy.

[Edward]

Wow, I'm surprise to see this many comments, and I read all sides and comprehended them. I was on a long road trip back to my home state and checked on the forum a few times, but couldn't comment. 

 

But let me say some things:

 

There are people commenting that it is the woman who is carrying the baby, or something along that line. So because she's carrying the baby, she has the last say with what she does with the baby? But wasn't it the man who got her pregnant in the first place? Shouldn't he the one who has the final say? In a relationship, the man and the woman should have a say.

 

You know, it's easy for people to say let's stop talking about abortion, or that it is not your say in what a woman does with her body. But that's what makes us people and a society. We've got to be vigilant. We have to confront issues and not sit silently to them! If we should stop talking about abortion, then we should stop talking about drunk driving, then we should stop talking about what one intoxicate in his/her body.

 

Whatever people try to make abortion seem like, it is murder! I've seen videos and pictures, on YouTube and google. I've seen the baby hands, legs, and other parts of it. That just show you how that it was a baby, and that it was murder!

 

Final point I want to make is that most people abort their child because of economic condition. I had an argument with my high school teacher who supported abortion and made the case about the economic condition women face. My question is...why didn't the boy and the girl focused on their school....why didn't them examine their own condition before trying to take care of another? Why are we trying to make excuses for them? Why weren't they responsible? If you don't want to have a baby, don't have sex! Pretty simple! But don't make society pay the cost of your aborting of your child! 

 

Ronald Reagan quote certainly hit the nail on the head when he said:  'I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.' I guess their parents should had aborted them for the same excuses they are making today.

[Greatnate]

Say that life begins at conception, what about in-vitro fertilization? Embyro selection, multiple implantation, and implantation failure rates mean that a lot of blastocytes will fail to become babies. Is this then murder? If so, who committed the murder?

 

If that's murder then what about all the embyro's that fail to implant naturally (ie 30-40% of them), are the vast majority of mothers mass murderers?

 

You might argue that life begins when sperm meets egg, but it's not viable human life. It has no soul or legal rights, it is a small grouping of cells with human genetic material. The grouping of cells is even unlikely to survive to term. Embryonic stem cell harvesting should be legal, err... I mean abortion should be legal.

[Braunsberg]

If a woman gets raped, I'd say it ought to be her choice. But to say that an unborn baby is not a person seems a little ridiculous. Would you be okay with terminating a pregnancy one day before birth? How about two days? Three? When does it become "okay" to kill the baby?

(adding to my post above to specify)

 

There is a stage of fetal development that occurs beginning at around 13-16 weeks before birth, in which an infant's brain suddenly begins to develop extremely rapidly. Before that point, brain development is slow and gradual, and therefore feti before that point do not have the neural connections necessary for pain, self-awareness, etc. However, once that stage begins, neural development increases by like 20-30 times, and the fetus becomes capable of touch/pain and is able to respond to sounds and actions that it can perceive outside the womb.

 

That is when it becomes reasonable to treat a fetus as a person, because once that stage is reached and progresses, the fetus is able to feel and think to some degree, not to mention that it finally operates like a separate organism from the mother (partially since the fetus gains control over its body and partially because its body is developed enough to survive on its own in the event of early birth). Almost all abortions are done prior to that point, and therefore the vast majority of aborted fetuses have no biological way of thinking, feeling pain, etc. That is why it's ridiculous to treat feti in such early stages as regular people; it would be like saying an egg yolk is the same thing as a chicken. Infants in later stages CAN be reasonably compared with grown humans, and in line with that, almost no abortions occur with feti that are past the first trimester.