Seeking Information: One Million Dollar Reward

[Ashland]

Several BoC members, some of whom are in Gov and some of whom are not, have been on the receiving end of espionage and spy-related attacks lately. Needless to say, we take this very seriously. Unfortunately, due to the limitations of game mechanics, it is nearly impossible to find out who is doing the spying. The ability of spies to defend against other spies is, essentially, negligible. Therefore, we are forced to resort to other means. I, Ashland, the Minister of Finance for the Brotherhood of the Clouds offer a reward of One Million Dollars to anyone who can provide me with verifiable screenshots that demonstrate who is responsible for these attacks. In-game evidence would be most helpful, but IRC logs, if properly authenticated (I would need you to show me dates and times in a screenshot, and then probably the real thing on hypercam) will do.

 

Fake, incomplete, or forced evidence will not be rewarded. If you spy on us, take a screenshot of it, and try to turn it in, you will not be rewarded.

 

I would like to assure any potential confidant of two things: Amnesty and Anonymity.

 

As for Amnesty, if you are party to the people performing these attacks, coming forward to us (even for this reward) will exempt you from any implication in the future. You will not be pursued or sought out in any way, shape, or form. I give you this promise. As for Anonymity, I have gone to great pains to ensure that the transfer of the reward to your person will not reveal your identity at all. This plan has been some time in the making and, using the various resources at my disposal, I have effectively played Three Card Monty with the reward money. It is currently securely held the hands of several people, all of whom I trust completely. The reward can be transferred to you in any amount, in any form (resources or currency), at any time. You can have us hold onto it until things cool down or take it in installments. It is entirely up to you. But you will get the money and nobody will be any wiser as to who you are or where the money came from.

 

All submissions should be made, privately, to me via IRC, Forum, or in-game messaging.

 

Regards,

 

Ashland

 

EDIT: It bears mentioning that the people conducting these attacks are going out of their way to target new BoC members just coming out of protection and hammering them until, in some cases, they simply quit the game.  I do not know what we did to cut such a hard corner with someone to make them want to do this to novice members, but I think it says a lot that they are intentionally choosing a tactic with the intent being to make the game not fun.  They want to make the game not fun for new players to make them quit.  I think it's deplorable.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashland

[SAI-40]

Well, good luck with that. Finding information on spying is going to be near impossible.

 

Now, with the amount of spies not mattering--is that a fact? Like is it a known bug?

[ooohu]

Good luck on discovering the source of these attacks BoC. 

[Ashland]

Well, good luck with that. Finding information on spying is going to be near impossible.

 

Now, with the amount of spies not mattering--is that a fact? Like is it a known bug?

I do not believe it is a bug.  I believe it is intentional.  Don't quote me on that, though.

 

I think the amount you have does matter a little bit, but not a lot.

 

Like if they use one spy on you and you have forty spies, you still probably won't find out who did it, they'll still probably succeed, and they'll probably kill 2 spies.  So it's incredibly frustrating when we're in a position like this.  We aren't looking for trouble, but trouble has found us.  We don't know who's doing it.  And we don't want to retaliate on anybody because we aren't looking for trouble and we don't know who it is.  It's a head-scratchingly stupid aspect of the game and it's unfortunate that there are people trying to exploit it instead of playing fairly, but we're trying to deal with it the best we can while not violating the spirit of the game ourselves.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashland

[Ashland]

I want to bring up an addendum I'll be making to the OP.

 

The people undertaking these espionage missions have, it seems, been going out of their way to target members literally hours after they leave protection.  We've had several incredibly new members who were just espionaged over and over and over again until they just quit the game.  It's unfortunate that someone has a bone to pick with us, but I would implore them to not take it out on our newest members and to avoid using strategies designed with the explicit intent of making the game miserable for someone so that they quit.  It's really poor form.

[SAI-40]

I do not believe it is a bug.  I believe it is intentional.  Don't quote me on that, though.

 

I think the amount you have does matter a little bit, but not a lot.

 

Like if they use one spy on you and you have forty spies, you still probably won't find out who did it, they'll still probably succeed, and they'll probably kill 2 spies.  So it's incredibly frustrating when we're in a position like this.  We aren't looking for trouble, but trouble has found us.  We don't know who's doing it.  And we don't want to retaliate on anybody because we aren't looking for trouble and we don't know who it is.  It's a head-scratchingly stupid aspect of the game and it's unfortunate that there are people trying to exploit it instead of playing fairly, but we're trying to deal with it the best we can while not violating the spirit of the game ourselves.

 

I don't think that's true at all, and I think your best course of action would be to buy more spies. I've failed on a spy attack before, and I've captured spies, during the war between TAC and EoS. Just because there's a small chance that they could succeed with a single spy doesn't mean it's pointless to have spies. Having them is a great deterrent anyways. Most people won't hit you with spies if there's a chance they could be caught doing it.

[Ashland]

I don't think that's true at all, and I think your best course of action would be to buy more spies. I've failed on a spy attack before, and I've captured spies, during the war between TAC and EoS. Just because there's a small chance that they could succeed with a single spy doesn't mean it's pointless to have spies. Having them is a great deterrent anyways. Most people won't hit you with spies if there's a chance they could be caught doing it.

We've been doing that and it simply hasn't been working.  So I stand by what I said.

 

But that's not even the biggest problem.  The biggest problem is that we have brand new members coming out of protection and they're often the ones being targeted and hit the hardest by whoever is doing this.  Whoever is orchestrating these attacks is clearly trying to hurt us by cutting off our future member base.  But in the process they are intentionally making the game miserable for others.  That is clearly the goal.  These brand new members have no way of defending themselves.  They have no recourse.  It's absolutely atrocious.  That is what this is about.

 

I wouldn't think it would be a big deal (attacks on soldiers are notoriously weak), but imagine getting a bunch of espionage reports HOURS after you come out of protection.  What would that tell you as a new player about what was in store for you?  I can't blame them for wanting to quit if, mere hours after they come out of protection, they get seven or eight espionage reports.  They could only have grim visions of the future.  And it's very clear that the people who are doing this KNOW what they are doing.  It is very obviously intentional.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashland

[Jodo]

 

Seriously though, I hope you catch them. Should be an entertaining show.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

Could a spy that I hired help catch a person trying to hurt someone that wasn't me? If so, maybe we should send our spies to protect new members. Whoever it is though is going to have h*ll to pay when we catch them. I won't be surprised if it's an organized effort… The question is why us. 

[ooohu]

Could a spy that I hired help catch a person trying to hurt someone that wasn't me? If so, maybe we should send our spies to protect new members. Whoever it is though is going to have h*ll to pay when we catch them. I won't be surprised if it's an organized effort… The question is why us. 

Gorbachav my mind baby.

[Shellhound]

I don't talk to police, sorry.

 

Really though, good luck finding them; Guardian had this problem in the past, bit of a nuisance.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Shellhound

[Khestra]

 The question is why us. 

 

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart." - Ulysses Everett McGill

 

Speaking as one who's been on the receiving end of treacheries that would turn the most religious man into a screaming atheist, asking "Why?" is a waste of time, as you probably won't get an answer even if the culprit is discovered.  The important portion is that you find this agent of perfidy and smash them without mercy.  Stalk the lines of communication, because if there's one thing miscreants like this enjoy doing, it's bragging about their achievements to anyone willing to listen, especially if those achievements are of better-than-planned results.  They'll look for praise for their efforts from others they believe sympathetic to their activities.  The bounty is a good start; pride will be the teeth of the trap.  I wish you the best fortune of which I am capable in your hunt.  Slay well!  

[Placentica]

Wait, so you want to accept members that would quit a game over a few spy attacks?  I'd hate to see what happens to your alliance if someone actually attacks your members.

[Ashland]

Placentica, if your nation were fourteen days old and the hour after you got out of protection you got a bunch of espionage reports, what would go through your mind?

[Phiney]

Placentica, if your nation were fourteen days old and the hour after you got out of protection you got a bunch of espionage reports, what would go through your mind?

 

"clearly people are active and fighting in this game, lets go espionage others and war people."

[Aeon Helikos]

Placentica, if your nation were fourteen days old and the hour after you got out of protection you got a bunch of espionage reports, what would go through your mind?

 

After founding my nation I immediately changed the nation color to red, forfeiting the 14 day beige protection (because I didn't read that part in the tutorial lol). My nation was NOT EVEN ONE DAY OLD when I was first attacked, I actually felt like quitting but did not. I'm still playing.

 

Your guy was already 14 days in.

[Ashland]

Oh, yup, you're right guys.  We should have selectively recruited members in protection to know how they'd behave out of protection.  Or, better yet, let's just not give any members in protection a shot at joining an alliance.  Clearly this is our fault, not the fault of the people who are intentionally trying to make new players quit.  That's what's going on here.

 

Sorry, everyone, turns out we're the a**holes!  Twist ending.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashland

[Clarke]

As far as this goes, a warning to players prior that they may receive spy attacks and that they should not get alarmed should be enough to keep them playing the game. 

Edited November 29, 2014 by Diabolos

[Ashland]

As far as this goes, a warning to players prior that they may receive spy attacks and that they should not get alarmed should be enough to keep them playing the game. 

That's what I've done now.  But that doesn't get back the players who are already gone.

 

I've explained to all our newer players that spy attacks on soldiers are next to harmless and that espionage is nothing to be afraid of.

[SAI-40]

I've got to be honest--and I'll need too make sure I'm correct about this with Sheepy--but I think you might be embellishing the facts here a little. If I recall correctly, the limit of attacks you can have on you in a single day is three. If he was attacked on the daily reset, the most he would've been hit was six times, which is a lot, but it isn't eight. If your players are quitting the game after losing a handful of soldiers in a few spy attacks, I have serious doubts they would've weathered through the first war you had, or the first raider that targeted them. This is politics and war. I'd they can't handle a little war they aren't a good match for the game.

Edited November 29, 2014 by SAI-40

[Ashland]

I have no idea how many times he was attacked, you're right.  The information is second hand (they didn't give me screenshots or anything) so there's a chance that they were wrong or simply exaggerating themselves.  But I got two similar stories from two different people who both stopped playing the game (one via message and one on IRC).

 

If you know nothing about football and the second you start playing it you get dogpiled, what will you think about football?  You don't know that there are points or anything, you've just gotten dogpiled.  You're going to think it's a game about dogpiling when it's not.  My immediate reaction was similar to yours, but I quickly realized that I was seeing it from my current perspective.

 

And we can't know what kind of players they would have been.  And because of this behavior, we never will.  Regardless of whether or not this tactic should work, it has worked and it is being chosen specifically to accomplish this.  Even if you say "Well, yeah, the players shouldn't quit over this." It's clear that whoever is doing this has that as their intention!

 

It takes a special kind of horrible person to go out of their way to screw with new players who pose no threat right as they get out of protection.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Baboon
merge

[ELPINCHAZO]

I have no idea how many times he was attacked, you're right.  The information is second hand (they didn't give me screenshots or anything) so there's a chance that they were wrong or simply exaggerating themselves.  But I got two similar stories from two different people who both stopped playing the game (one via message and one on IRC).

 

If you know nothing about football and the second you start playing it you get dogpiled, what will you think about football?  You don't know that there are points or anything, you've just gotten dogpiled.  You're going to think it's a game about dogpiling when it's not.  My immediate reaction was similar to yours, but I quickly realized that I was seeing it from my current perspective.

 

And we can't know what kind of players they would have been.  And because of this behavior, we never will.  Regardless of whether or not this tactic should work, it has worked and it is being chosen specifically to accomplish this.  Even if you say "Well, yeah, the players shouldn't quit over this." It's clear that whoever is doing this has that as their intention!

 

It takes a special kind of horrible person to go out of their way to screw with new players who pose no threat right as they get out of protection.

 

 

Sounds like you're making a lot of wild assumptions.

 

Why would someone waste spy operations on new players? They tend to quit in under a week anyway or just got inactive before they get to the third city. It seems like it would be a waste of resources.

[Ashland]

Sounds like you're making a lot of wild assumptions.

 

Why would someone waste spy operations on new players? They tend to quit in under a week anyway or just got inactive before they get to the third city. It seems like it would be a waste of resources.

Exactly!  Why WOULD they?  There's no strategic reason!  Clearly it's just to demoralize them and make them quit.  There's literally no other explanation.  As you said, there's no point! They have no military.  And it's a HUGE waste of resources.

[SAI-40]

I have no idea how many times he was attacked, you're right.  The information is second hand (they didn't give me screenshots or anything) so there's a chance that they were wrong or simply exaggerating themselves.  But I got two similar stories from two different people who both stopped playing the game (one via message and one on IRC).

 

If you know nothing about football and the second you start playing it you get dogpiled, what will you think about football?  You don't know that there are points or anything, you've just gotten dogpiled.  You're going to think it's a game about dogpiling when it's not.  My immediate reaction was similar to yours, but I quickly realized that I was seeing it from my current perspective.

 

And we can't know what kind of players they would have been.  And because of this behavior, we never will.  Regardless of whether or not this tactic should work, it has worked and it is being chosen specifically to accomplish this.  Even if you say "Well, yeah, the players shouldn't quit over this." It's clear that whoever is doing this has that as their intention!

 

It takes a special kind of horrible person to go out of their way to screw with new players who pose no threat right as they get out of protection.

 

They were fourteen days old. That's like watching everyone get hit and pummeled from the sidelines, and then joining in on the game and getting surprised when you get hit and pummeled. If they didn't expect what happened when they came off of protection, they must not have understood why beige is protection in the first place.

 

When I first came of of beige when I first started the game, I was instantly hit by raiders and almost knocked down to zero infrastructure. You know what my first thought was? "Oh, man, I guess that's why I was under protection for fourteen days. Now I know."

 

 

Exactly!  Why WOULD they?  There's no strategic reason!  Clearly it's just to demoralize them and make them quit.  There's literally no other explanation.  As you said, there's no point! They have no military.  And it's a HUGE waste of resources.

 

There is a strategic reason, don't be stupid. If you want to really weaken an alliance, you go after their newest and weakest members and make them weaker. An alliance is only as strong as it's weakest link, so you make those links weaker. There's someone with a bone to pick with you, and they're weakening you up or testing you to see how you deal under pressure. From what I've seen, it isn't well. Instead of doing what you can to boost your members to defend themselves, you've come to the forums and made it public knowledge and shown that you can't handle the problem yourself. Put that 1 million toward buying spies and rebuilding lost units.

Edited November 29, 2014 by SAI-40

[Ashland]

They were fourteen days old. That's like watching everyone get hit and pummeled from the sidelines, and then joining in on the game and getting surprised when you get hit and pummeled. If they didn't expect what happened when they came off of protection, they must not have understood why beige is protection in the first place.

 

When I first came of of beige when I first started the game, I was instantly hit by raiders and almost knocked down to zero infrastructure. You know what my first thought was? "Oh, man, I guess that's why I was under protection for fourteen days. Now I know."

 

 

 

There is a strategic reason, don't be stupid. If you want to really weaken an alliance, you go after their newest and weakest members and make them weaker. An alliance is only as strong as it's weakest link, so you make those links weaker. There's someone with a bone to pick with you, and they're weakening you up or testing you to see how you deal under pressure. From what I've seen, it isn't well. Instead of doing what you can to boost your members to defend themselves, you've come to the forums and made it public knowledge and shown that you can't handle the problem yourself. Put that 1 million toward buying spies and rebuilding lost units.

We're doing all of those things as well.  And knowing who is doing this to us is easily worth 1 million dollars.  But that's for us to worry about.

 

But I'm glad that you agree that whoever is doing it is doing it to try and make new players quit.

 

You were very sympathetic on the IRC last night, SAI-40.  Your tune has changed a great deal in less than 24 hours.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Ashland