In Defense of Brethren Court: Setting the Record Straight

[hidude45454]

Let's get some things out of the way first. This post isn't intended to make me any friends. I doubt it will. Most people who read this will probably just laugh and move on with their lives, but I only ask that you, the reader, at least take some of these points to mind. This is not a post about Camelot; I've been there, done that. Rather, this is meant to dispel some false information I've heard circulating aroud Brethren Court, and to argue that while it's easy making fun of micro moments and the like, don't always believe everything you hear. So, let's begin.

The premise: Brethren Court, especially its main members, SoL and FSO, went into the Camelot war with the entire world against them.

First, not a single expectation was on their side. It was assumed they would more or less follow the same fate as every other set of alliances preceding them did. Think pixelhuggers or defensive-only alliances like GPA, 2016 TFP, Valkyrie, as well as more recent examples like Swamp and Mystery, plus the long line of oversized micros the game has had:

This was not helped by the narratives of some of those alliances themselves:

Hot Cakes Episode 1: https://youtu.be/QzMOglPZBEs?t=674

So, it was only a month ago that Johnsons, finding themselves in need of trimming the fat before their war, gave BLOC (SoL, FSO, WTF, and Genesis) the boot. While WTF and Genesis found their way into HM and did a fairly abysmal job after they were eventually rolled by the Johnsons themselves, SoL and FSO found themselves collectively unwelcome in any sphere, and therefore left themselves politically isolated in a world that loves taking advantage of politically isolated alliances and which only saw them suffering the same fate as their former BLOC partners.

It was true to an extent, then. Realizing this, SoL decided to go on the offensive instead and discern their military preparedness in a war against UL and GATO, the results of which, well, I think pretty much everyone saw for themselves:

In the face of all this, what did everyone expect SoL to do? Go back to licking their wounds as an overinflated micro? Disband their alliance or sphere? Get rolled by another alliance entirely?

Instead, SoL doubled down. They analyzed their mistakes from the war with Backrooms, gathered their sphere, and decided to choose an even more ambitious target. That target turned out to be Camelot.

Here's how that went:

By the same number of attacks:

By the end of the day:

  

A leaked war doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RHoi3Wmy70MYOrM-QbzspfcnFlDn5aV-iarZpWN4v90/edit#gid=283695920

Double check those if you need to. By the time the Backrooms war had concluded, an egregious 35% of SoL attacks were from naval attacks, loser weapons, or fortifies. By the same number of attacks in the Camelot war, that number had plunged to 3.3%, more than a tenfold decrease. By the end of the first day, that number had only risen to 3.9%, and in many cases was only due to people naval attacking their wars only after they'd been won traditionally. That's a better percentage than Johnsons had in their war, and while having to coordinate with non-Discord members as well. Essentially, their military doctrine experienced a full turnaround in less than a week. On top of that, they defied the naysayers who didn't believe they would do anything. They abandoned, to a degree, their longstanding policy of peace and pacifism. They found partners in Orbis's many pirate alliances. These are all things they did correctly, and all things I wish they would receive more recognition for. Coming into the conflict, many of these alliances were unproven militarily and politically and needed serious experience and training in order to git gud. Sure, they have experienced a lot of bumps on the way, but that was to be expected. What matters is that they decided to do something during this period of peacetime. In their position, what would you have done?

Nonetheless, a lot of things happened during the war itself. They also supposedly did a lot of things that are simply untrue, and so to the best of my knowledge I'll break down my perspective of some of these things and shed some light on the situation.

Before we begin. Was my post the initial CB used for war? Yes, and I'm honored it was the case. Did I specifically request Brethren Court carry out the war? Not one bit. Do I feel obligated to make this post because they were the ones who did follow through on my post? Yes, but I truly believe everything I will say in it. Did I see potential in Brethren Court even before they decided to follow through with the war? Absolutely. In short, for me this was one big happy coincidence, and I don't regret being in this position a single bit.

First, the basic facts and a simple timeline. Brethren Court planned their Camelot blitz on Saturday/Sunday. This was leaked early, as is frequently the case with newer alliances, and Camelot decided to preempt them on Friday instead. Camelot likely did the right thing by preempting. Brethren Court, while aware of the leaks, were caught off guard, and while initially slow to respond due to members not being used to alliance wars, decided to declare war early. Thus, from their earliest position, they were forced to counterblitz instead of blitz, no easy feat for a sphere just learning to put the pieces together.

So, some things I've heard:

TBC have a serious leaking problem. This point is correct. A lot of OPSEC was let out, and although several leakers were taken care of, there is no doubt they will have to up their game post-war.

TBC dogpiled Camelot without expecting counters. This point is summarily false. To the first part of that -- pictured, a tiering comparison graph. On the offensive: SoL, FSO, Arrgh, Roman Empire, UU, and Ayyslamic Caliphate. On the defensive: Camelot, Camelot extensions/offshores, Castle Camelot, USSR, Crimson Dragons, and TUA:

While it's pretty clear-cut in the lower tiers, it gets a lot dicier the higher up you go. Locutus put the effective military strength by score around here at the very start of the war:

In short, it tells more or less the same story. This was proven even more by the initial general uncertainty at who would win the war. To get some potential questions out of the way: Castle Camelot were included because SoL is also a non-Discord required alliance, and they are fighting back to a degree as well. Fear was not included (although they don't make much of a difference if they were) because they only seriously declared one war only as a counter for Ayyslamic. Before the war began, Camelot peaked at 90% planes and 48% tanks, while SoL peaked at 73% planes and 58% tanks, FSO were largely the same, and Roman Empire were a bit higher. So, while Camelot were slightly disadvantaged in ground, they had a higher percentage of planes, and this showed in the above attack counts. Regardless, I do think SoL entered the war with a militarization edge, but also entered with a blitz disadvantage and a less experienced milcom caught off guard. So, this was a much fairer fight than most may see it as.

In addition, TBC fully expected Camelot's allies to counter, just as they fully expected UL's allies to counter, and from what I know this was factored into the blitz planning, even though it was thrown out the window from Camelot's preempt. So, they didn't plan the war expecting an easy win whatsoever.

TBC are losing the war. I find it kind of funny somehow both this narrative and the narrative they were dogpiling both managed to exist in the same space. All one needs to do to prove this wrong is simply by looking at the war stats and the alliance militarization changes:

Camelot militarization:

TBC are doing a shitty milcom job. I hope that the above images prove otherwise. Regardless, the fight still isn't over. Ayyslamic and Arrgh are blanket beiging their wars, so it remains to be seen how subsequent rounds will go. I encourage anyone following the situation to do so with an open mind rather than assuming TBC will do poorly no matter what.

TBC had a shitty blitz. As mentioned above, they didn't have a blitz, but were caught off guard and forced to launch a counterblitz. While their initial turnout was poor due to general membership inexperience, by the end of the first day they did a pretty solid job countering wars and filling most slots.

TBC benefited from the reduced city score. I have heard a lot (and I mean A LOT) of misinformation or confusion surrounding the new city score, but that deserves another topic of its own. Regardless, I can assume this only pertains to Fear's single serious war as everything else would be in acceptable range either way, and I'm pretty sure Fear's war would've been in range regardless as well (but don't quote me on that)

SoL is a tax farm. I genuinely struggle to see where this rumor came from or if remotely any proof surfaced for this. While SoL's tiering is poor, this is the result of inexperienced econ and not negligent econ -- everyone gets a shot at a defined series of grants and loans that are far more generous than those of Castle Camelot (although I daresay that the structure itself led directly to poor tiering). If this is a point that warrants further exploration, please let me know. I would be more than happy to do side-by-side comparisons of Castle Camelot and SoL.

SoL and Roman Empire are actively poaching Castle Camelot members, who are useless in the long run anyways. Gathering my own evidence, as well as approaching those alliances directly, I was able to obtain a few logs. First, a Roman Empire announcement:

While opportunistic, the log mentions "not implicitly saying to come here" and was primarily used as a tool of information warfare over recruitment, although I understand if I'm being a bit pedantic here. Going the opposite way, I also obtained messages of poaching directly from Camelot:

Much more direct, so this ain't exactly a one-way street. Nonetheless, there has been an exodus of members from Castle Camelot:

Just to be clear, these aren't useless members. Many of them created Discord accounts in order to join their respective alliances. I only ask people to read the last few paragraphs in my initial Castle Camelot post on why we should care about these newer players.

TBC are doing a poor FA job. I cannot deny their FA is mostly inexperienced and still in the stages of learning, and they are very aware of this fact, but I would like people to reevaluate what they have seen of their FA this war and ask themselves if they would do anything differently in TBC's position. If so, what? I leave this forum thread open to all advice.

TBC faked or do not believe in their war CB. From what I have seen, this narrative was the outcome of pre-war logs being (as per usual) taken out of context. However, I think this is an issue TBC and Camelot should hash out internally, and I don't doubt there will be mistakes made along the way, so I won't comment further on this.

So, wrapping this very long forum post up, I once again implore people to take a second look at how things are going, and to seriously fact check what they are hearing. Brethren Court, are, in the face of political isolation, charting a path for themselves. YES, they have made a lot of mistakes, and will continue to make a lot more, but they are learning and improving. They are doing something dynamic and aggressive during what is normally a period of peacetime for the rest of us. Their protectorates are actively contributing and participating. These are normally not things you expect would happen from alliances of this type. So, to all those reading (and thank you for making it to the end!) who are still inclined to continue bashing Brethren Court without reason --

Maybe join me and help look out for the little guy instead? 😄

[KindaEpicMoah]

Also to be fair, they're fighting Camelot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Johnson Boris]

Great post, it definitely changed my mind completely on certain points regarding the situation.

[Jacob Knox]

I've had quite a few pleasant conversations with SoL's new Head of FA already and I must say that I do think they are entering an era of learning and improvement. Everyone likes to talk down about them, but I think they're doing a good job of learning from experience and at least attempting to demonstrate what they're learning for Orbis.

[Natonito]

Thanks for providing some data.  Obviously you are seeking these experiences as learning experiences and hopefully lessons will continue to be learned and applied.

[Mayor]

You have too much free time on your hands friend.

[ToxicPepper]

This is the current standing of alliances on both sides so your tiering chart is a bit misleading about the advantage that SOL Coalition actually has in this war. Furthermore, if you filter out the largely inactive CC at 7+ days inactive members then the advantage breaks wide open for SOL coalition so I would argue that this is a dogpile. Either way it's obvious SOL/FSO are making moves to better their members and lets see how they perform after AC / Fear exit the war and if they'll be able to successfully hold down Cams 20+ tier

Edited April 25, 2022 by ToxicPepper

[Kevanovia]

Hidude is 100% on point

[Kalachthefirst]

WoT hidude? how do u get so much free time?

[Mystic Piano]

7 hours ago, Jacob Knox said:

I've had quite a few pleasant conversations with SoL's new Head of FA already and I must say that I do think they are entering an era of learning and improvement. Everyone likes to talk down about them, but I think they're doing a good job of learning from experience and at least attempting to demonstrate what they're learning for Orbis.

 

6 hours ago, ToxicPepper said:

This is the current standing of alliances on both sides so your tiering chart is a bit misleading about the advantage that SOL Coalition actually has in this war. Furthermore, if you filter out the largely inactive CC at 7+ days inactive members then the advantage breaks wide open for SOL coalition so I would argue that this is a dogpile. Either way it's obvious SOL/FSO are making moves to better their members and lets see how they perform after AC / Fear exit the war and if they'll be able to successfully hold down Cams 20+ tier

 

6 hours ago, Kevanovia said:

Hidude is 100% on point

❤️ Guys thank you for all the support!

[Flavee]

Interestingly enough, the attacks that was going to take place appears to have been planned at best with a week or two worth of notice. While I do agree on some points but SOL and FSO hasn't done anything dynamic all they did was hire AC/Arrgh etc and ride the war tides. No one launches a war after rebuilding infrastructure. The timing of the attack was hindered due to Camelot Premptive Blitz which made them freak out and forgetting their own CB sometimes and it also makes them do some things either by hook or crook. The coordination between FSO/SOL forces were weak and also very limited. I also believe that while they may have taken control of their primary objective of defeating us militarily they never seized a stable platform in which they could create an effective outpost. However if hiring mercs is all it takes to do something dynamic everyone should do that.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Flavee

[Thompson798]

57 minutes ago, Flavee said:

Interestingly enough, the attacks that was going to take place appears to have been planned at best with a week or two worth of notice. While I do agree on some points but SOL and FSO hasn't done anything dynamic all they did was hire AC/Arrgh etc and ride the war tides. No one launches a war after rebuilding infrastructure. The timing of the attack was hindered due to Camelot Premptive Blitz which made them freak out and forgetting their own CB sometimes and it also makes them do some things either by hook or crook. The coordination between FSO/SOL forces were weak and also very limited. I also believe that while they may have taken control of their primary objective of defeating us militarily they never seized a stable platform in which they could create an effective outpost. However if hiring mercs is all it takes to do something dynamic everyone should do that.

1. We didn't hire anybody

2. The blitz was planned far more than a week in advance

3. Scoreboard

[Flavee]

1 hour ago, SecFED Thompson said:

1. We didn't hire anybody

2. The blitz was planned far more than a week in advance

3. Scoreboard

1) So are you actually saying that AC had few billions lying there in cold and they decided to help you out of goodwill.

2) ok

3) scoreboard for what?

[Thompson798]

2 minutes ago, Flavee said:

1) So are you actually saying that AC had few billions lying there in cold and they decided to help you out of goodwill.

2) ok

3) scoreboard for what?

1. Well, no, they just decided they'd raid all their money off of you

2. 👍

3. 

 

16 hours ago, hidude45454 said:

TBC are losing the war. I find it kind of funny somehow both this narrative and the narrative they were dogpiling both managed to exist in the same space. All one needs to do to prove this wrong is simply by looking at the war stats and the alliance militarization changes:

Camelot militarization:

:3

[Flavee]

15 minutes ago, SecFED Thompson said:

1. Well, no, they just decided they'd raid all their money off of you

2. 👍

3. 

 

:3

1) I'm not sure if they've really made a profit out of us. 55m isn't really a good amount.

3) All credits will be given to AC and Arrgh in the end since they were the main driving force and did most of the work. They were the key factor.

[Kevanovia]

1 hour ago, Flavee said:

1) I'm not sure if they've really made a profit out of us. 55m isn't really a good amount.

Still a net positive. They get to fight and they made money.

SoL and FSO took the initiative to kick this off. So they still get credit.

[Flavee]

1 hour ago, Kevanovia said:

Still a net positive. They get to fight and they made money.

SoL and FSO took the initiative to kick this off. So they still get credit.

Credit for what exactly? 

Except starting the war

Edited April 26, 2022 by Flavee

[Thompson798]

4 hours ago, Flavee said:

1) I'm not sure if they've really made a profit out of us. 55m isn't really a good amount.

3) All credits will be given to AC and Arrgh in the end since they were the main driving force and did most of the work. They were the key factor.

Actually, according to the damage dealt stats, AC and Arrgh did a combined grand total of 47.3% of the damage while FSO, SoL, UU, and Rome (UU and Rome being subsidiary allies of FSO and SoL, respectively) did 47.45%, with the other 5.25% being done by periphery alliances like TF, HoF, and Sunray. 

In other words, while AC and Arrgh were certainly important and did a lot of work, the contributions of TBC Proper are very much comparable to those of the raiding AAs. Now, obviously there's more than just one variable to consider there in terms of tiering, but if we're talking about "FSO and SoL get none of the credit because they did none of the work" or some garbage like that, that's just not supported by the data. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by SecFED Thompson

[King Valerio]

This is awesome. Hidude is on point here.