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Ok, real talk. Player/Alliance votes


Buorhann
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There's only one way to solve this mess. All nations with 700+ days can decide on a council of 5 players. These 5 players will choose "deserving" candidates which will of course be totally unbiased and fair. Because as humans, we never make biased decisions.

Once the "deserving" candidates are chosen, the community will vote. Every vote will be double checked against the voters forum age and nation age. If they look like trolls or seem like trolls or even smell like trolls, they will be denied their vote.At the end of the day, Democracy wins and so does the "deserving" candidate.

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4 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

I was referring to you whining about people colluding on who to vote for. Which was done on a smaller scale earlier, and is the basis people in your sphere have laid out for doing it now.

Are you guys actually this obtuse, or are you actually just trying to go for mustache-twirling villains to liven things up? If it were the latter I might actually respect it.

Ah, I don't recall complaints about that in the past. So apologies for not knowing of any that has happened. Back when I was in Syndisphere I kinda ignored everything Paracov said (no offense guys :P

 

As for that I am more going for "Crash an OWF circle jerk before it happens and make everyone salty" but that is my personal motive. That and it gives us something to do.

3 minutes ago, ForgotPants said:

There's only one way to solve this mess. All nations with 700+ days can decide on a council of 5 players. These 5 players will choose "deserving" candidates which will of course be totally unbiased and fair. Because as humans, we never make biased decisions.

I nominate @Bot because, since he is a robot, he will be completely impartial and unbiased.

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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I was linked this thread a while back so idk I’ll put in my two cents for the person that linked it:

The question you should be asking yourselves is: what is rigging in context of an online poll for a nation simulator, and what is the reasoning behind a specific vote.

For one, the very concept of “rigging” is not an actual thing in relation with this specific set of polls - how would you rig this? The votes are transparent enough (go ahead and uncheck the secrecy box if management has that checked if you want) and are limited to one per active account as far as I am aware. The fact of the matter is, traditional rigging isn’t a thing here. It’s a non issue. What most people are talking about is “manipulation of votes”, a phrasing I do not agree with on a fundamental basis. 

For two, votes are always based on the voter trying to stick to his preference set - and in the context of this eSim there isn’t really a “I forced these guys to vote” thing going on either - convinced, lobbied, campaigned and endorsed, sure - even if they’re “ordering” players to vote for certain players, I view it as a legitimate strategy. Here the “want” for voting for someone would outweigh the “rational” decision - whatever that is xdxd. IQ convinced their members that them voting for these specific candidates is the better option - get over it, that is literally how campaigning works. The common misconception here and in other threads is that this is somehow illegitimate, and breaks this “sanctity” of this poll system. That isn’t the case at all:

This system was never meant to accurately portray who was who in the community and the game; the person who can convince the maximum amount of people to vote for them wins by default. That is how these votes are decided, have been and most likely will be.

Want to do something? Convince your own member base to vote for your own people/alliances. B_itching does nothing. Popularity contests are won this way, not by complaining about the other side consolidating votes you think should’ve been received by others. 

Edit: no walls of text (albeit one as short as this) on mobile ;-;

Edited by Anathema
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1 minute ago, Rache Olderen said:

I nominate @Bot because, since he is a robot, he will be completely impartial and unbiased.

How can a robot be impartial when NPO is full of his kind?

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11 minutes ago, Bot said:

People who alliance hop and don't settle barely get to know anything about the alliance in my experience. What leadership positions you held and in which alliances?

By alliance hop I mean like staying in an alliance for a month or two, then joining another. 

This has actually been the longest I’ve been in an alliance. I don’t plan to leave.

"There's nothing you can know that isn't known,
Nothing you can see that isn't shown,
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be,
All you need is love,
Love is all you need."
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3 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

I vote that we have no vote.

We should all pay $12.95 to alex to buy whatever awards we want

[This message has been sponsored by Red Road Entertainment LLC]

I propose to give all the alliance awards to Avansies and all the players awards to Les Paul Supreme

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Just now, Micchan said:

I propose to give all the alliance awards to Avansies and all the players awards to Les Paul Supreme

Why not to Alex? He fixed our broken servers a few days ago. In my eyes, he is Player of the Year for 5 years now.

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Guest Curufinwe
36 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

Okay, this is going to be my last say on the matter, in part because I realized something, but also because my iPad is like 5 minutes from dying and I won’t have access to a charger for like 4 hours

 

So, let me first make two things crystal clear:

I don’t care how my votes are, and I’m NOT against IQ 

 

I simply saw that there’s a mass outcry against how the vote appears to have been tampered with, completely tipped towards those IQ voted for.

 

Seeing this outcry and many, many complaints I wanted to help. To try and offer an idea for how we could fix this an make everyone happy.

 

Now I’m seeing the same thing again, for the other side. 

 

I don’t want to upset people

And seeing how angry people are at me, and how passionate they are about defending the current poll, I’m going to step back. There’s no way here to please everyone, and I’m not one for upsetting people, I really would rather not.

 

So I leave my ideas here, do with them what you want, cause the fact stays the same, I really don’t care how the vote ends, I just wanted to make the community happy

 

GG and sorry for not talking more to IQ on the problem before offering an idea

 

Adios 

II'm glad you withdrew your demand for a new poll before I got around to responding to it, since otherwise I would have had to point out how entitled your apparent belief that you deserve to win is.   Hopefully the rest of the people making arguments based on a similar sense of entitlement find the courage to follow your lead and stop demanding that we alter the rules to favour their candidacies.

31 minutes ago, Spaceman Thrax said:

Can you really not see why people might be upset at the idea of you telling a bunch of people who are new and don't actually take part in the global community to vote for specific things?

I'm not dismissing the points some IQ people are making here, but the way you've chosen to go about making that point, when the option of, say, offering help to the organizers to address some of your concerns, strikes me as really petty. And the tenor of comments people have made since makes me pretty confident it was borne almost entirely out of that pettiness.

You don't like the community, so you're taking a bad thing about it and making it worse. Okay guys.

As I said when you messaged me earlier Manthrax, you're missing the point - our players are part of the community as well and have just as much right to have their opinions heard as you do.  I know your AA doesn't do a lot of recruiting, but BK does and I can tell you that we have comparative noobs that are incredibly well informed and engaged with the politics of PW and vets that have been around for years that don't follow politics at all.  Your argument seems to rest on an elitist assumption that newer players don't have the experience necessary to cast an informed vote, by which you seem to mean a vote you don't agree with.  Our people don't 'ruin' the awards by participating and, in fact, they validated the work done by the organizers by participating in a process that has always been open to everyone.  You seem to be equating the 'community' with the OWF (as does Micchan when she tries to link voting rights to OWF posts), but the community in question is PW and our people log-in to participate in it every day.  Just because they don't post regularly in the OWF or talk to you on Discord doesn't mean they don't matter and trying to cheapen their votes by suggesting that does a disservice to the community we're all a part of.  As I said to Micchan, if the OWF regulars want to hold a poll and recognize people they like that's their call, but these are the PW awards and the rules for participation have always been clear - you don't get to change them now because people you think are 'deserving' aren't winning the awards you think they deserve.

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3 hours ago, Zeebrus said:

There’s going to be a new vote, don’t worry about it. I talked to Bezzers and he said he’s alright with it. I’m also pushing for the voters to be public so if another vote trolling happens, certain votes can be nullified, and the rightful people will get their awards.

 

It should be within the next few days that the new polls are opened

Yeah, no.

The original vote still stands. Nobody has the power to nullify it after it's already started, and it if it is "cancelled" by some baby who only agrees with a democratic process when they and their people win, then we will just honor the results as they were just  before it was "cancelled" and those will become the new results.

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5 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

-snip-

Me and Aerys just fire off quips while Curu fires off entire paragraphs explaining things and arguing.

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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16 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

I know your AA doesn't do a lot of recruiting, but BK does and I can tell you that we have comparative noobs that are incredibly well informed and engaged with the politics of PW and vets that have been around for years that don't follow politics at all. 

An example being I can say right now that, besides NPO in part, I don't know how any of other alliance's economy runs besides my own, and I have been in CS gov for the past two years. That and I mostly don't pay attention to forum politics.

Though it isn't like these categories are particularly vetted. For example, GoG was nominated for best forums, despite not having forums at all. Though speaking of which we definitely need a best discord category.

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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29 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

, but I didn’t consult anyone from IQ really, so I didn’t take into account that people on that end would be upset then.

Which really is the problem when it comes to forums/awards and the like. The echo chamber within here refuses to consult, include or involve IQ folks when it comes to doing things, and as a result, created an environment that makes us feel better off outside of this place. Saying that, its not particularly your fault, as much as the circle jerk nature of the forums here. 

I'd be terribly disappointed if Bezzers and co. unilaterally change the awards system over night, after the process has begun.

With regards to the topic at hand, for next year ( Awards 2018 ) my only suggestion to makes these awards better would be to split them into statistical/factual awards, like Best Growth and the like which can be measured and given out by the admin staff, while allowing player perception votes to continue in a similar manner. That way there are some irrefutable truths, along with a mix of the current popular culture votes, which balances community participation with a fact-based system :P 

Edited by Shadowthrone
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5 minutes ago, Curufinwe said:

You seem to be equating the 'community' with the OWF (as does Micchan when she tries to link voting rights to OWF posts), but the community in question is PW and our people log-in to participate in it every day.  Just because they don't post regularly in the OWF or talk to you on Discord doesn't mean they don't matter and trying to cheapen their votes by suggesting that does a disservice to the community we're all a part of.  As I said to Micchan, if the OWF regulars want to hold a poll and recognize people they like that's their call, but these are the PW awards and the rules for participation have always been clear - you don't get to change them now because people you think are 'deserving' aren't winning the awards you think they deserve.

You're right, first we have to define the meaning of each category, or the next year the same problem will be repeated, not that they means so much but if we have to do it better do it in the best way we can

There are some categories who are about this community, this forum, like the best OOC poster, best OC poster, best avatar, best signature, etc. these should be in a different poll where only active users of this forum can vote

There are other categories who can be voted by everyone like best alliance flag, even a new player can vote this, he just has to look at the flags and pick his favorite

There are other categories like best forum who should be eliminated because most of the people are only on their alliance forum and not in the others

Some other categories need a fix like best economic system that should be unified with best alliance growth

And then we have categories like alliance of the year, etc. who should be voted only by players who at least are playing the game for 10 months, because you need to know what happened to vote

Do you agree?

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11 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

Well even if it’s not my fault for causing all this, id still like to apologize regardless for the accidental bias I had, only taking the feedback from those not in IQ before trying to make a solution.

 

I actually don’t think we should all pay alex the big bucks to get awards.

I’ve got to say that because even though I was joking I’m now legitimately worried alex is gonna stumble into here, see that and make it a thing

And that is why we should never post anything that might give Alex any "bright ideas." It never ends well. :sheepy:

 

But good show on the apologizing. :)

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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14 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

Well even if it’s not my fault for causing all this, id still like to apologize regardless for the accidental bias I had, only taking the feedback from those not in IQ before trying to make a solution.

 

I actually don’t think we should all pay alex the big bucks to get awards.

I’ve got to say that because even though I was joking I’m now legitimately worried alex is gonna stumble into here, see that and make it a thing

Log in

Changelog NEW!

Buy a credit to have the right to vote in the awards! You can buy up to 10 credits and give them to other players so all your friends can vote!

Posted by Alex 12/06/2017 06:25 pm

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4 minutes ago, Micchan said:

Log in

Changelog NEW!

Buy a credit to have the right to vote in the awards! You can buy up to 10 credits and give them to other players so all your friends can vote!

Posted by Alex 12/06/2017 06:25 pm

Log in

Error, lacks required credits

Changelog NEW!

Buy a credit to have the right to log in! It is like a subscription but you are buying the right to log in!

Posted by Alex 12/06/2017 06:35 pm

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2nd, 4th, and 6th Adelphotes Princeps of Cornerstone, Ambassador to Black Knights, 4th Grand Pilus of Cornerstone, 2nd Chaplain of Cornerstone, 5th Questor Princeps of Cornerstone

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1 minute ago, Rache Olderen said:

Log in

Error, lacks required credits

Changelog NEW!

Buy a credit to have the right to log in! It is like a subscription but you are buying the right to log in!

Posted by Alex 12/06/2017 06:35 pm

Changelog NEW!

You can't read this changelog, buy a credit to read this changelog

Posted by Alex 12/06/2017 06:40 pm

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Guest Curufinwe
1 hour ago, Robert P. Holmes III said:

Neither do you, nor does anyone else. The vote has already begun. Only the results from that poll will be honored.

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Guest Curufinwe
46 minutes ago, Micchan said:

You're right, first we have to define the meaning of each category, or the next year the same problem will be repeated, not that they means so much but if we have to do it better do it in the best way we can

There are some categories who are about this community, this forum, like the best OOC poster, best OC poster, best avatar, best signature, etc. these should be in a different poll where only active users of this forum can vote

There are other categories who can be voted by everyone like best alliance flag, even a new player can vote this, he just has to look at the flags and pick his favorite

There are other categories like best forum who should be eliminated because most of the people are only on their alliance forum and not in the others

Some other categories need a fix like best economic system that should be unified with best alliance growth

And then we have categories like alliance of the year, etc. who should be voted only by players who at least are playing the game for 10 months, because you need to know what happened to vote

Do you agree?

Actually I don't and here's why - you're essentially saying that only people who post on the OWF should have the right to weigh in on what's posted on the OWF, which fundamentally misconstrues what the PW 'community' actually is.  Only a small minority of people actively provide forum content, but it is consumed by many others who then use it to form opinions regarding the people who post. They may not express those opinions in the form of a reply, but that doesn't make their opinions any less valid than someone who spams posts every day of the week.  I, for example, didn't start posting regularly on the OWF until I became BK's AoFA (almost a year into my time here) but I still followed the content regularly and had an very well formed opinion regarding certain people - why should my opinion be considered less informed than someone who has, say, 5 times as many posts but only reads threads that they are tagged in?   You're basically equating 'being part of the community' with '(shit)posting on the OWF' when, in reality, they are two very different things.  In fact, this poll has demonstrated that there is a large silent majority that does want their voices to be heard (which is why they voted) and I can't agree with any proposal that would silence them in order to priviledge a select few who feel they are more worthy of being allowed to vote than their fellow players.  As for your other suggestions, it's really just your original proposal for voter suppression (which as I pointed out is a form of vote rigging) repackaged in a slightly different way - you're trying to put restrictions on people you feel aren't worthy, which I fundamentally believe goes against the principle of a free and democratic poll, which is what this is supposed to be.  As I said before, if the frequent (shit)posters on the OWF want to hold a separate poll to recognize their friends there is absolutely nothing wrong with that - you guys can hold as many or as few as you like.  But the PW awards have traditionally been open to every player in good standing and should continue to be so, since it's meant to reflect the opinions of the game community as a whole, not an elite who see themselves as above the players they play alongside every single day.

 

32 minutes ago, Zeebrus said:

 

How the heck did I split the quotes, i pressed enter and they cut, I can’t glue them back together 

 

Anywho, I deleted it all. I wrote out a big message about how I was worried what if you needed the monthly like $40 VIP subscription to be allowed to buy votes, not the vip from credits, but the one you have to pay like 6-7 credits worth for.

 

But alex can’t know. Because he might implement it.

 

Then when he does, and we have to one day pay $1 for every 15 clicks, then we would have to come together as a raging mob.

 

All 7000+ of us, with pitchforks, trebuchets, pirate ships, torches, guns, knives, memes and even the threat to sue Alex, and we would have to charge, all as one combined force, and dismantle alex’s house. Brick by brick, until the entire house is a pile of rubble, and in the basement below we will pull alex out and tell him to get it of his parent’s basement and stop scamming the people. Mr. Sheep will decline “money over all else you loser people”

This is it. The end of alex, upon hearing these words a solemn silence falls upon the mob, all weapons lowered, shouts quieted, marching ended. Everyone stood with their heads down, in reverence for the soon to be slain sheep.

And just as alex began to ask “what’s going on” they all reanimate

Shouting 10 times louder, holding their weapons up to the top of the sky, they pick up alex and throw him into the air, over and over through the crowd, then at last he’s put in a cage, carried over everyone’s heads, but there is no happiness, no sense of victory or ending in the crowd, no.

 

The chanting grows even louder, the marching powerful enough to shake the earth to its very core. The dictator in the cage is brought to the top of the largest, angriest most violent volcano in all the world, and they hold him over it, he looks down and is in horror, it’s not bubbling lava he sees, it’s a giant tarp that has the C N logo on it. He grabs the bars of his tiny prison and begins to violently shake them

”LET ME OUT OF HERE” he yells

 

From the raging crowd comes forth one stronger than all, Yui of Pantheon

”Sorry Mr. Sheep, but to get out of the cage you need to buy 10 credits” she says. “NOOO I REFUSE TO GIVE YOU MY MONEY” The sheepman shouts at her.

 

But Yui isn’t gonna have any of that. So she grabs the pole they have the cage on. The pole that is the one thing keeping alex from dropping into C N, and with her mighty grip alone, she snaps the pole, this 3” thick steel pole crushes as if it’s a straw.

 

The sheep falls. Everyone looks down and watches as he falls for some 9 hours and 37 minutes. Finally he hits the bottom, a loud crash is heard, and suddenly everyone’s pockets are restored, wallets and purses filled to the brim with money, money stolen from them over the years.

 

Everyone throws their hands up in celebration. The dictator is vanquished and Orbis is now saved. Cheering and celebrating for days, maybe even weeks.

 

From the shadows emerges Abbas mehdi, who takes over a Orbis as everyone celebrates. Abbas sits in alex’s parent’s basement, on a chair labeled “Orbis throne” with a Chuck E. Cheese’s crown on his head laughing. “I am god now”

 

The End

or is it

Don't you have a poll to post? Bezzers tells me you're responsible for one of the ones we're still waiting on.

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Calling @Zeebrus anti-IQ is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. She's the head of FA in an NPO protectorate! She wrote a story about Roq's ass.

What the !@#$ happened to you people?

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Dec 26 18:48:22 <JacobH[Arrgh]>    God your worse the grealind >.>

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