A better, safer, more secure NPO

[Roquentin]

Taking advantage of what situation? We'd defend him even if you were the #1 alliance in the game and it meant we all got rolled. Our members are members. They're people. It's just a mind set, something you'll never break from us. He also didn't desert. He fought, you guys aren't going to win at this point. If he left at the beginning of the war, I could see you saying this. Mid-war? Yeah he's a deserter. At the very end when you've been in oeace talks multiple times rejecting everything? Nah, it's not desertion, he just wants to leave, you should let him. Showing a little good will to an alliance that's been sympathetic to you is a good thing, not threatening to hit their member(s) in the future. Also, it stopped being an internal matter the second you stated you hit him after he joined Roz Wei.

 

I really doubt you'd be as bold in doing this if that hypothetical were true especially given your justification is it's perfectly fine to leave an alliance if they're losing. Desertion is leaving during a war. That's it. NPO's definition will never change. Trying to impose your views on us will not work. You essentially threatened us despite having committed the first transgression. 

 

My "personal standards" are based on how good of a time people spend here, whereas your "standards" are based on venting your anger on members who don't see any future with such a prolonged warfare.

 

We have our culture. If you're fine with disloyalty, that's your deal, but you can't impose it on us. He knew the history of the organization when he joined and he knew the attitudes towards deserters that existed. He chose to stay for as long as he did knowing that.

[donsberger]

Can I join the new NPO?

I'm sure you could

[Licorice]

 

They like to be 'official'. They speak, act, and operate in specific patterns. Everything they say, do, and sign is done in a very prim and proper way. They dislike and do not understand others who simply prefer a more informal way of doing things. I've seen the term 'childish' and things of that nature used when they come across a group or alliance that isn't a cookie cutter mold of themselves. For all intents and purposes they are the 'Elitist' group.

 

Cookies for any who remember this bit

[LordRahl2]

So, are there any other benefits to this alliance?  Will this tax be funneled back to my repairs?

[Aerys Targaryen]

We have our culture. If you're fine with disloyalty, that's your deal, but you can't impose it on us. He knew the history of the organization when he joined and he knew the attitudes towards deserters that existed. He chose to stay for as long as he did knowing that.

 

lol, sounds more like a delusion, rather than a culture.

[Roquentin]

lol, sounds more like a delusion, rather than a culture.

It has served us well for over a decade. YMMV

[Kastor]

I really doubt you'd be as bold in doing this if that hypothetical were true especially given your justification is it's perfectly fine to leave an alliance if they're losing. Desertion is leaving during a war. That's it. NPO's definition will never change. Trying to impose your views on us will not work. You essentially threatened us despite having committed the first transgression. 

 

 

 

We have our culture. If you're fine with disloyalty, that's your deal, but you can't impose it on us. He knew the history of the organization when he joined and he knew the attitudes towards deserters that existed. He chose to stay for as long as he did knowing that.

I'm pretty bold.

[Dr Rush]

Principles? Same reason we're not going to pay reparations and the war is still going on.

So its a matter of principle for NPO to take in known trouble makers? That explains so much. Carry on.

[Roquentin]

So its a matter of principle for NPO to take in known trouble makers? That explains so much. Carry on.

No, basically, he got into another branch because the people who could anti-vouch him didn't see it in time. He got into PW NPO through that and wasn't bad initially. It gradually deteriorated and I had to spend a lot of time on him trying to make it work. He was productive at times and I believe people can change, but ultimately everything people said about him was right.

 

The principle is more how he left and the fact he only did it this way due to our situation knowing he could do it without immediate ramifications.

[Licorice]

The principle is more how he left and the fact he only did it this way due to our situation knowing he could do it without immediate ramifications.

 

I don't know, trying to escape when your gov tried to kill you in every way possible after taking several rounds of war for said gov, military get wiped, shit ton of infra damage and looting seems rational to most people

Edited October 9, 2016 by Talerong

[Kastor]

No, basically, he got into another branch because the people who could anti-vouch him didn't see it in time. He got into PW NPO through that and wasn't bad initially. It gradually deteriorated and I had to spend a lot of time on him trying to make it work. He was productive at times and I believe people can change, but ultimately everything people said about him was right.

 

The principle is more how he left and the fact he only did it this way due to our situation knowing he could do it without immediate ramifications.

"Without immediate ramifications"

 

So there would always be ramifications? Sounds about right for NPO.

[Roquentin]

I don't know, trying to escape when your gov tried to kill you in every way possible after taking several rounds of war for said gov, military get wiped, shit ton of infra damage and looting seems rational to most people

Yeah, this isn't a biased portrayal at all.(sarcasm)

 

No one forced him to be around. He knew our political situation well before the war and it wasn't totally a mystery to him in terms of the approach we'd be taking to potential wars.

[Dark Specter]

The guy was a problem child... Alright so he left the alliance, no need to waste your time going after him some point down the road. If what you said about him is true then the alliance he joined will see this eventually and remove him from the alliance or he will leave before they kick him.

[Roquentin]

The guy was a problem child... Alright so he left the alliance, no need to waste your time going after him some point down the road. If what you said about him is true then the alliance he joined will see this eventually and remove him from the alliance or he will leave before they kick him.

How we approach it is ultimately an internal decision. When an external alliance intervenes and strongarms us when we we're at war with an entire coalition and refuses to negotiate even and then they call us out in public over it and posts private conversations, it's going to rub us the wrong way, especially when it makes virtually no sense for them to do so.  We're fairly confident it'll turn out the way you describe you though.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Roquentin

[Guest Curufinwe]

Most of those aren't even true, though.

 

"Most"

 

 

We provide means for our members to make their own money if they wish to and in this case, he was making his own money. He had plenty of money to pay us with.

 

 

So you take all the money their cities generate in taxes over the length of someone's membership and then charge that member the full price of his or her cities as an exit fee for leaving?  Rather than, say, calculating the value of the taxes you've extracted from that member over the course of their time with you and then subtracting that sum from the supposed debt they owe you?  And they can't leave until they repay this debt using their 'own money,' while your AA continues to expropriate 100 percent of their revenue in the meantime?  Do you charge them for the food their people eat and the uranium their power plants consume and tack that sum onto their debt as well?  I wouldn't be surprised to learn there's some poor guy frantically hosting 300 games of baseball a day in the desperate hope he'll someday be allowed to leave unharmed and all the while cursing his citizens for the way the food they eat and the power they consume forces him to play another 10 games a day just to break even.

[Licorice]

 

No one forced him to be around.

 

 

Run a 100% tax rate but tell members they can't leave before paying for the cities you bought them

Uh huh, tell me more

 

 

He knew our political situation well before the war and it wasn't totally a mystery to him in terms of the approach we'd be taking to potential wars.

And he still stick around to participate in your wars and got rolled for it, with the reward being marked-for-death by his own AA (who he just fought for) when he decided he had enough and want peace.

 

Bravo

 

 

When an external alliance intervenes and strongarms us when we we're at war with an entire coalition and refuses to negotiate even and then they call us out in public over it and posts private conversations, it's going to rub us the wrong way, especially when it makes virtually no sense for them to do so.

Said external alliance is an alliance that you basically admitted to hit their member in the future, so yeah it make definitely no sense.

 

And you already got your negotiation, peace and good relations forward or keep hitting and bad relations forward; or do I have to dump the entire log here?

[Roquentin]

Uh huh, tell me more

 

And he still stick around to participate in your wars and got rolled for it, with the reward being marked-for-death by his own AA (who he just fought for) when he decided he had enough and want peace.

 

Bravo

 

Said external alliance is an alliance that you basically admitted to hit their member in the future, so yeah it make definitely no sense.

 

And you already got your negotiation, peace and good relations forward or keep hitting and bad relations forward; or do I have to dump the entire log here?

 

 

Again, I already illustrated what's off-base about the 100% tax thing being brought into it. If he was actually broke, it'd be different. He wasn't.

 

Who said we're planning to hit him while he's in Roz Wei? Did you read Dark Specter's post

 

It wasn't a negotiation. It was more or less an open threat. We could either  have "good relations" with Roz Wei's unwelcome intervention into our internal affairs or bad ones. That's not a negotiation. That's you taking a dump on us from a position of strength. 

[Guest Curufinwe]

And you already got your negotiation, peace and good relations forward or keep hitting and bad relations forward; or do I have to dump the entire log here?

 

Please do. I'd love to see if Roq acts this way when he's talking to everyone, or if it's just with me.

[Roquentin]

Please do. I'd love to see if Roq acts this way when he's talking to everyone, or if it's just with me.

 

I mean, I don't think you'll get what you're expecting out of it lol

[Guest Curufinwe]

I mean, I don't think you'll get what you're expecting out of it lol

Insight is never wasted

 

For example, as someone who has never played (and doesn't care about) (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), I've learned quite a bit about NPO just from reading this thread

Edited October 9, 2016 by Curufinwe

[Licorice]

 

Even if we do not pursue him immediately due to high priority targets, high consequences will follow his decision to spit in the face of the Order.

If this isn't a threat, I don't know what is. Heck, Kastor even ask you to let him go peacefully which you then you denied.

 

For starter, I don't give a literal !@#$ if Ryleh was actually allowed to leave whenever he want or not since nothing can tied him down save for threats from NPO. My problem is he actually stick around to fight for your alliance from the beginning to the end despite having no obligation to and in response he got a "stay or face the consequence" choice

 

 

It wasn't a negotiation. It was more or less an open threat. We could either  have "good relations" with Roz Wei's unwelcome intervention into our internal affairs or bad ones. That's not a negotiation. That's you taking a dump on us from a position of strength.

 

You have a choice and that's all we care about. Either enforce your "principle" by hitting our member or keep us as friends, no middle ground. You choose the former and decide our relationship from now on, that's settled it.

 

And like Kastor said last page

 

Also, it stopped being an internal matter the second you stated you hit him after he joined Roz Wei.

[Beowulf the Second]

I dunno, if he requested to use "your alternate means of making money", wouldn't he be basically announcing his intentions of leaving NPO? I hadn't ever thought of how you would leave a 100% tax rate alliance; sounds like a crap situation if you ask me

[Betulius]

How we approach it is ultimately an internal decision.

 

Is no one gonna touch that?

God damn, I hate you guys.

 

It stopped being internal as soon as they joined another alliance. Alliances have every right to defend their members, no matter how shitty or recently acquired.

[Roquentin]

If this isn't a threat, I don't know what is. Heck, Kastor even ask you to let him go peacefully which you then you denied.

 

For starter, I don't give a literal !@#$ if Ryleh was actually allowed to leave whenever he want or not since nothing can tied him down save for threats from NPO. My problem is he actually stick around to fight for your alliance from the beginning to the end despite having no obligation to and in response he got a "stay or face the consequence" choice

 

 

You have a choice and that's all we care about. Either enforce your "principle" by hitting our member or keep us as friends, no middle ground. You choose the former and decide our relationship from now on, that's settled it.

 

And like Kastor said last page

 

It's pretty open-ended. He had the obligation by signing up to be a member. No one forced him on it.

 

Except we haven't hit him and I pretty much said we had no plans to do so in the interim? He's tried to even get us to hit him saying "Hey I'm out of beige."

 

 

 

 

I dunno, if he requested to use "your alternate means of making money", wouldn't he be basically announcing his intentions of leaving NPO? I hadn't ever thought of how you would leave a 100% tax rate alliance; sounds like a crap situation if you ask me

 

No, we have an internal program that people can make money from if they wish to dedicate the time to the game to do it.  I'm not really sure why utilizing opportunities we gave to our members would be akin to announcing his intention to leave.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is no one gonna touch that?

God damn, I hate you guys.

 

It stopped being internal as soon as they joined another alliance. Alliances have every right to defend their members, no matter how shitty or recently acquired.

 

It's ultimately decided internally in terms of what we're going to do. I get people like to jump on every word, but I don't really get what's difficult to get about that line. We're not going to put it to a public opinion poll.

[Betulius]

It's ultimately decided internally in terms of what we're going to do. I get people like to jump on every word, but I don't really get what's difficult to get about that line. We're not going to put it to a public opinion poll.

 

Then every decision is internal and the term is meaningless.