Crust Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 There is also no subjective decision that won't have a "loophole" to point out the inconsistency of that decision. Which applies to every single rule in this game. There's not a single one that doesn't require that the admins have to subjectively decide if someone is breaking it or not. And with that in mind, there's not a single rule that doesn't have loopholes. It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Which applies to every single rule in this game. There's not a single one that doesn't require that the admins have to subjectively decide if someone is breaking it or not. And with that in mind, there's not a single rule that doesn't have loopholes. Cool. give me an example of a loophole then. Buying and Selling of Politics & War accounts or nations is strictly prohibited. Each player is allowed to create one account that cannot be sold or transferred to another user. Protip: you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Cool. give me an example of a loophole then. Protip: you can't. "Buying and Selling of Politics & War accounts or nations is strictly prohibited. Each player is allowed to create one account that cannot be sold or transferred to another user." I could rent out my account with the intention of having multiple people who rent it on a monthly basis. It's not technically selling it, since I'm still the owner of the account, but the admins could still see that as a violation of this rule. "The use of any script, bot, macro, or other form of automated traded is strictly prohibited in Politics & War. These programs give players who use them an unfair advantage over normal players, and use of them is punishable by banishment." I could have a bot ping me when there's a favourable deal on the market, when prices are unusually low or high etc. It's not automated trading so therefore it's not a rule violation, but it does give me a clear advantage over "normal players" as the last sentence states. "All forms of in-game communication, including but not limited to, messaging, war declaration reasons, alliance announcements, leader, city, or nation names, and nation and alliance descriptions must be appropriate. Vulgar language, mean comments, Nazism or Nazi related names and titles, Terrorist organizations related names and titles etc. are not allowed and will result in your nation receiving a strike." This one is the most obvious example. There's already been several nations and alliances that violate this rule but get away with it by simple making a few alterations. Say you use have a Neo-nazi name, a famous neo-nazi song, you use some not clearly racist but almost crossing the boarders of what's allowed (aka not "I want all jews to die" but of similar nature) and there you have it. You got yourself a nazi nation but since these things aren't in your face about being nazi they can easily get away with it. Same thing with Ibrahim. All of these rules can be read in different ways depending on your intentions and who you are. That's why there's admins who enforce them, rather than the community as a whole, since it's impossible to get one unified understanding of a rule or a rule violation. Edited December 18, 2015 by Satisfriend It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 "Buying and Selling of Politics & War accounts or nations is strictly prohibited. Each player is allowed to create one account that cannot be sold or transferred to another user." I could rent out my account with the intention of having multiple people who rent it on a monthly basis. It's not technically selling it, since I'm still the owner of the account, but the admins could still see that as a violation of this rule. No. You couldn't. You'd be transferring it to another user. The duration is irrelevant. And this shows that 1) objective standards are possible and do exist and 2) you're not really interested in reaching the truth. You just have a goal that you want accomplished and are willing to be a sophist to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) No. You couldn't. You'd be transferring it to another user. The duration is irrelevant. And this shows that 1) objective standards are possible and do exist and 2) you're not really interested in reaching the truth. You just have a goal that you want accomplished and are willing to be a sophist to get it. Define transferring? Because I could easily just use say use a software to log in myself on another person's computer, therefore not giving away my password. They log in, play as much as they want, pay me for it without it being transferred since I still have power over the account. You're as transfixed with proving me that you're right as I am about proving you that you're wrong. Don't try to act like you're some sort of unbiased party that has just the pure desire to "reach the truth". Edit: Also, clearly the fact that we can argue about a simple rule as "don't sell or buy an account" is proof enough that each and every rule can be read with different interpretations. Edited December 18, 2015 by Satisfriend 1 It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 My point? I wasn't the one who made a thread asking the community to establish a set of standards or ask where boundaries are crossed. If you want to leave it to sheepy's subjective opinion, fine--he's going to do that anyway. It's his game. What you are establishing is a democratic mob rule, though, when you say just get enough people to complain about a person and Sheepy can wield subjective standards to punish them. That's a horrible way to run a game--or anything. It might be a horrible way to run a country but its a pretty normal way to run a game. This is low stakes, bubbles. People play a game to have a good time. If someone is annoying lots of people (like you, since you are annoying lots of people) then it would be perfectly reasonable for the game admin to ban you or restrict your behavior. What doesn't make much sense is a person choosing to play a game, but only in order to annoy lots of people. Good job, you are a mildly successful but wholly unoriginal troll. Can we skip to where you declare mission accomplished and move on to something else? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Define transferring? Because I could easily just use say use a software to log in myself on another person's computer, therefore not giving away my password. They log in, play as much as they want, pay me for it without it being transferred since I still have power over the account. Lol you ask me to define a word then use it to make your point. Classic tautology. It's not transferred because I defined it as such! If they are playing on your account, they have power over your account, i.e you have transferred it. Edited December 18, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 If someone is annoying lots of people (like you, since you are annoying lots of people) then it would be perfectly reasonable for the game admin to ban you or restrict your behavior. Amazing. Well you're entitled to that view and sheepy is entitled to agree. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Lol you ask me to define a word then use it to make your point. Classic tautology. It's not transferred because I defined it as such! I gave you an argument for why it can be viewed as not transferred, which goes back to my original argument that all of the rules in this game can be read in different ways and thus make people establish loopholes. The arguments you've given me as of yet is "uuuuh you're a poop!". Which is as much as I should expect from you but I mean, when I was 14 and trolling I at least tried to apply some more gusto in to it. Edited December 18, 2015 by Satisfriend It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) I gave you an argument for why it can be viewed as not transferred, which goes back to my original argument that all of the rules in this game can be read in different ways and thus make people establish loopholes. The arguments you've given me as of yet is "uuuuh you're a poop!". Which is as much as I should expect from you but I mean, when I was 14 and trolling I at least tried to apply some more gusto in to it. They log in play as much as they want pay me for it without it being transferred since I still have power over the account. Your definition of not transferred is "not having power over the account" which amounts to not knowing the password to the account and presumably not changing it, because the renter would certainly have the power to do so. So because passwords aren't being transferred in any manner, therefore the rest of the account isn't. Your use of account is strictly limited to "passwords." The moment you go beyond passwords as a definition of "account," you are in violation of the rule. Even more to the point, read the rule again: Buying and Selling of Politics & War accounts or nations is strictly prohibited. It specifies nations, as in the actual game play mechanics. Edited December 18, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spite Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 I didn't want this to become about PB but since it's going that way I'm interested to hear what exactly is your reason for playing if your only interaction is to deliberately annoy as many people as possible? As I said, this is a discussion about boundaries in what is almost certainly a topic with no final guidelines in place. Sheepy has obviously been considering this matter and has come to a short term conclusion with regard to trump ads, but not the issue in general. That's what this thread was supposed to address. ☾☆ Priest of Dio just because the Nazis did something doesn't mean it's automatically wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naturella Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) You do not annoy me Princess Bubblegum Just wanted you to know that I am not annoyed by your ads or nation rp in any way. Edited December 18, 2015 by Naturella 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crust Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I didn't want this to become about PB but since it's going that way I'm interested to hear what exactly is your reason for playing if your only interaction is to deliberately annoy as many people as possible? As I said, this is a discussion about boundaries in what is almost certainly a topic with no final guidelines in place. Sheepy has obviously been considering this matter and has come to a short term conclusion with regard to trump ads, but not the issue in general. That's what this thread was supposed to address. Sorry about derailing. What I'm wondering the most about this subject is the amount of people arguing that it would hinder the game development if Sheepy were to enforce this or that, because it'll take time away from Sheepy doing other things. Why isn't anyone asking for more admins, or just people who only work on enforcing rules? To me it makes no sense to even have discussions about what's allowed and not allowed if it's always gonna result in Sheepy not having time for it. Why not just take Sheepy out of the equation? Let him work on developing the game. It's my birthday today, and I'm 33! That means only one thing...BRING IT IN, GUYS! *every character from every game, comic, cartoon, TV show, movie, and book reality come in with everything for a HUGE party* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moreau Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Salt,salt everywhere Signed by Sultan Moreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) I didn't want this to become about PB but since it's going that way I'm interested to hear what exactly is your reason for playing if your only interaction is to deliberately annoy as many people as possible? As I said, this is a discussion about boundaries in what is almost certainly a topic with no final guidelines in place. Sheepy has obviously been considering this matter and has come to a short term conclusion with regard to trump ads, but not the issue in general. That's what this thread was supposed to address. 1) I refuse to state, in a affirmative or the negative, that my motivations are to annoy people 2) Whole alliances (big ones, like BLOC) have existed with that sole intent. I'd argue that annoying people is a large part of what makes games like these fun. 3) Beating a dead horse, but if you want to restrict "advertising," there's going to be a huge gray area, and you'll be left with the whims of admin teams and/or trying to guess intent (something that compromises role play). Clearly some people think that's desirable to a more defined and likely more tolerant standard. What I'm wondering the most about this subject is the amount of people arguing that it would hinder the game development if Sheepy were to enforce this or that, because it'll take time away from Sheepy doing other things. Why isn't anyone asking for more admins, or just people who only work on enforcing rules? Probably for similar reasons of hesitation given for anonymous player-based forum moderation. Any game admins are going to probably have access to sensitive nation data, much like Malone had as admin. When you give that kind of power to an anon player, it creates obvious problems. So you would probably want non-player game admins, either non-player volunteers (good luck) or paid employees, the latter of which would be more hard-come by given the desire to nerf the game's income potential through said moderation. To me it makes no sense to even have discussions about what's allowed and not allowed if it's always gonna result in Sheepy not having time for it. Why not just take Sheepy out of the equation? Let him work on developing the game. Because some rules are essential to the game and others, like the one was been proposed on ads, are more aesthetic--arguably unneeded and wasteful of resources. Edited December 18, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haylz Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avruch Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Amazing. Well you're entitled to that view and sheepy is entitled to agree. I don't. I note that you ignored the cue for you to explain why your only present activity is confined to trolling the general PNW population. And your seeming goal suffers from some weak logic. You seem to want Sheepy to establish some clear bright lines, with no loopholes. I imagine you think the only good way to do that is to permit everything that isn't pornography (and perhaps cursing). Its obvious to everyone else that this isn't going to happen, but... You don't seem to realize that the likely outcome of your trolling and pestering isn't greater freedom but less - unconstrained by any laws or binding principles of objective measurement or free speech, Sheepy will just increase the restrictions on ads in order to snuff out irritants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) I note that you ignored the cue for you to explain why your only present activity is confined to trolling the general PNW population. And your seeming goal suffers from some weak logic. You seem to want Sheepy to establish some clear bright lines, with no loopholes. I imagine you think the only good way to do that is to permit everything that isn't pornography (and perhaps cursing). Its obvious to everyone else that this isn't going to happen, but... You don't seem to realize that the likely outcome of your trolling and pestering isn't greater freedom but less - unconstrained by any laws or binding principles of objective measurement or free speech, Sheepy will just increase the restrictions on ads in order to snuff out irritants. I ignored your bait, if that's what you mean, since you asked me an obviously loaded question. The standard I advocate, and have advocated, which is fairly clear, is, so long as not in violation of any other game rules, ads must have some in-game relevance. Ads that "market" real life things without in-game relevance would already not be allowed with that standard. Since Sheepy has accepted some metric of allowance for real-life marketable material in ads, the idea that there can be "no marketing of real-life material" at all is clearly wrong. This has been brought up here: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10063-please-ban-the-donald-trump-ads/page-2#entry180662 Edited December 18, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haylz Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saeton Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Holy fornicating manure. How hard is it to just IGNORE THE ADS? 5 (TEst lives on but I'm in BK stronk now and too lazy to change the image) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Von Dietrich Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Honestly, who cares about PB's ads? I mean, I see Socialist ads all over PnW should they be taken down, due to me seeing Stalin, Kim Il-Sung, ect? All of which were mass-murders! I may not like Trump, but it's 100% easy to ignore the ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prezyan Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I rather like the Trump Ads.. sure it can get kinda repetitive but to me some of them are really funny 6 Psweet> pro-tip: don't listen to baronus if Prezyan disagrees with him 5:48 AM — +Eva-Beatrice sq**rts all over the walls Eva-Beatrice> I'd let Sintiya conquer me anyday x) 10:56 PM — +Eva-Beatrice m*st*rb*tes in front of Prezyan 12:13 AM — +Eva-Beatrice has no one to !@#$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabasstion Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Trump 2016 is one of the best things to happen to this game. this thread is just plain silly 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyubnyan Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 PB probably gets off to this shit. Humans cannot create anything out of nothingness. Humans cannot accomplish anything without holding onto something. After all, humans are not gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fistandantilus Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 I always found the Trump adds amusing, I think this is a bad decision for many of the good reasons brought up prior =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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