How does the Democratic People's Republic of Korea still exist as a nation?

[Franz Von Dietrich]

It always confuses me, such a nation so oppressive, with so much poverty, so much defections.

 

 Maybe it's because of the People's Republic of China? It probably is the PRC, who keeps the DPRK running (meaning with supplies, ect).

But, PRC-DPRK relations haven't been the best, in this year.

 

Beyond that fact, a rouge nation with nuclear weapons, who threaten war nearly every month against "Imperialist". Now, this may seem odd, why do the Conservatives care so much about Iran, if DPRK is more radical than Iran has so far?

 

 DPRK will probably be ended by 2020, but hey, we can't tell the future.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Comrade Enver Hoxha

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Unless you want to eat a nuke... you're not going to mess with them.

[Fox Fire]

It always confuses me, such a nation so oppressive, with so much poverty, so much defections.

 

 Maybe it's because of the People's Republic of China? It probably is the PRC, who keeps the DPRK running (meaning with supplies, ect).

But, PRC-DPRK relations haven't been the best, in this year.

 

Beyond that fact, a rouge nation with nuclear weapons, who threaten war nearly every month against "Imperialist". Now, this may seem odd, why do the Conservatives care so much about Iran, if DPRK is more radical than Iran has so far?

 

 DPRK will probably be ended by 2020, but hey, we can't tell the future.

 

(Another reason why Central Planning in the economy fails, thats why DPRK is having economic reforms currently).

Because they have a pretty big !@#$ military. And nukes. The only realistic chance of ending it without a nuclear holocaust is for the people of North Korea to take back their country.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Fox Fire]

As for Iran, we only demonize them because they are allied to Russia. In reality, Iran, specifically the people of Iran, are a lot more tolerant and kind than most Muslim nations. I've heard from many people who've traveled there that the people are the most welcoming and kind people of any nation they've traveled to.

[Rozalia]

Rebellion is the only path it seems for North Korea to be free of that terrible Kim dynasty. An assassination of Kim himself would likely do it, which just takes one general to think he is next on the chopping block and decide to pop Kim off first. 

 

(Another reason why Central Planning in the economy fails, thats why DPRK is having economic reforms currently).

 

Uh... plenty of other reasons like you know... being completely insane. No one will take a criticism like that seriously if who you're using as an example is North Korea. 

[Big Brother]

Massive military, nuclear capabilities, isolated society, their system of authoritarianism is woven into the very fiber of the nation, Their government has spent decades perfecting their control over the country and they wouldn't just give it up. Plus, there's geopolitical conditions to take into account. How would nations like Russia and the People's Republic of China respond to aggressive action against North Korea (which is literally right on their doorstep)?

 

I believe the main reason central planning hasn't worked well in the real world is that consumer demand and the market is too unpredictable to be able to accurately plan. If you could get accurate real time information of your incomes & expenses, resource production and consumer demand (like the P&W revenue page or every real time strategy game), you should be able to plan accurately.

[Sargun]

Literally nobody here is correct so far.

 

No, North Korea's nuclear weapons program is a joke that nobody takes seriously, and their capacity for using it in the face of an overwhelming, crippling first-strike from a US-led coalition is a farce.

 

No, North Korea's "economic reforms" are the same "reforms" they've had every year when their harvest fails.  They've been starving for decades and promise changes and reform every time they want food.

 

No, North Koreans can not just rebel.  What are they going to rebel with, sticks?  They're malnourished, starving, weak people with no way to communicate for an effective resistance, with no weapons, no leadership, and NO FOOD.  You can't fight when you're dying.  At even a hint of resistance the government steals able men from families and puts them in camps where they're torn to death by dogs, raped, and worked to death.

 

No, their military is not "mega huge".  It's got a lot of untrained, leaderless, old-fashioned soldiers in a modern world for a small country.  It's a way to keep people occupied and fed by making them dependent on the DPRK government to survive.  Their equipment is falling apart at best and completely useless at worse.  The worst they could do is a handful of artillery towards Seoul before being glassed.

 

No, China and Russia's reactions are not a worry.  China dislike the DPRK and Russia only tolerates it for free slave labor.

 

The real reason the DPRK still exists is because if the Kim regime falls and the people are "free" then you're going to destroy the entire East Asian economy and it would lead to a much worse humanitarian disaster than ever, one we can't afford.

 

East and West Germany were only separated for a few decades, and the Berlin Wall wasn't even up 30 years.  Korea has been separate for 62 years.  Germany is a multi-faceted nation and one of the premier economies on Earth, and has been powerful for a significant period.  The huge manufacturing base and significant economic rebuilding and recovery by the Allies led to a country that, despite being split in two, would come out of the fission relatively okay.  AND IN SPITE OF ALL THIS, just catching up East Germany to West Germany has cost *trillions* of dollars over *decades* and still has yet to be finished.  This is IN SPITE OF: a relatively modern economy, literacy, modern skills useful to creating and holding jobs, higher education, and an entire continent of support.

 

North Korea has none of that.  Their country split and rapidly became worthless.  The manufacturing base of North Korea is non-existent.  They have no economy of any kind outside of exploiting people for slave labor for raw resources.  Their people are illiterate, unskilled, uneducated, malnourished, and the country has nothing to grow with - we would have to build effectively the entire country's economy from the ground up.  Do you really expect people who have been oppressed for 62 years to just magically be okay with staying where they are?  No - there's going to be mass migrations into Russia, into China, into Korea, into Japan, into America.  Millions and millions of starving, uneducated, unskilled, foreign workers with no prospects for a future as a whole will be flooding into some of the most prosperous economies on Earth and absolutely crippling them.

 

Tens of trillions of dollars that nobody has will need to be spent just trying to catch them partially up to the rest of the world, and that's only after years of economic disaster world-wide.

 

THAT is why the DPRK still exists.

[Vassili Dovgan]

[Triggered]

[Fox Fire]

Literally nobody here is correct so far.

 

No, North Korea's nuclear weapons program is a joke that nobody takes seriously, and their capacity for using it in the face of an overwhelming, crippling first-strike from a US-led coalition is a farce.

 

No, North Korea's "economic reforms" are the same "reforms" they've had every year when their harvest fails.  They've been starving for decades and promise changes and reform every time they want food.

 

No, North Koreans can not just rebel.  What are they going to rebel with, sticks?  They're malnourished, starving, weak people with no way to communicate for an effective resistance, with no weapons, no leadership, and NO FOOD.  You can't fight when you're dying.  At even a hint of resistance the government steals able men from families and puts them in camps where they're torn to death by dogs, raped, and worked to death.

 

No, their military is not "mega huge".  It's got a lot of untrained, leaderless, old-fashioned soldiers in a modern world for a small country.  It's a way to keep people occupied and fed by making them dependent on the DPRK government to survive.  Their equipment is falling apart at best and completely useless at worse.  The worst they could do is a handful of artillery towards Seoul before being glassed.

 

No, China and Russia's reactions are not a worry.  China dislike the DPRK and Russia only tolerates it for free slave labor.

 

The real reason the DPRK still exists is because if the Kim regime falls and the people are "free" then you're going to destroy the entire East Asian economy and it would lead to a much worse humanitarian disaster than ever, one we can't afford.

 

East and West Germany were only separated for a few decades, and the Berlin Wall wasn't even up 30 years.  Korea has been separate for 62 years.  Germany is a multi-faceted nation and one of the premier economies on Earth, and has been powerful for a significant period.  The huge manufacturing base and significant economic rebuilding and recovery by the Allies led to a country that, despite being split in two, would come out of the fission relatively okay.  AND IN SPITE OF ALL THIS, just catching up East Germany to West Germany has cost *trillions* of dollars over *decades* and still has yet to be finished.  This is IN SPITE OF: a relatively modern economy, literacy, modern skills useful to creating and holding jobs, higher education, and an entire continent of support.

 

North Korea has none of that.  Their country split and rapidly became worthless.  The manufacturing base of North Korea is non-existent.  They have no economy of any kind outside of exploiting people for slave labor for raw resources.  Their people are illiterate, unskilled, uneducated, malnourished, and the country has nothing to grow with - we would have to build effectively the entire country's economy from the ground up.  Do you really expect people who have been oppressed for 62 years to just magically be okay with staying where they are?  No - there's going to be mass migrations into Russia, into China, into Korea, into Japan, into America.  Millions and millions of starving, uneducated, unskilled, foreign workers with no prospects for a future as a whole will be flooding into some of the most prosperous economies on Earth and absolutely crippling them.

 

Tens of trillions of dollars that nobody has will need to be spent just trying to catch them partially up to the rest of the world, and that's only after years of economic disaster world-wide.

 

THAT is why the DPRK still exists.

I disagree. I see no reason why North Koreans can't take care of themselves in the absence of the Kim family. Further more, North Korea will likely never be part of South Korea even if the Kim dynasty falls. The people of North Korea have a pretty different culture than those in the south. Re-integration is likely impossible at this point. 

North Koreas nuclear program is not a joke. They actually have nukes and they can use them. I think people take it extremely seriously, as they should. 

You seem to think that everyone in North Korea is an incapable retard.

[Fox Fire]

Also, Jewish prisoners in WW2 rebelled against the SS with pretty surprising success. But a rebellion doesn't have to be led by people in camps. Not everyone in North Korea is half dead. There are plenty of soldiers in NK who equally don't like their situation. The problem is finding and effective way of showing the average North Korean that the outside world is not what they are shown on TV. The modern efforts of people smuggling many things into NK has helped a lot in that regard. Things like DVDs, music, photos, etc. The people are starting wake up and the Kim dynasty is worried. People writing anti-government graffiti in Pyongyang, acts of defiance, soldiers fleeing over the border, etc. Recently the North Korean military layed mines in the DMZ to prevent people from fleeing and launched an artillery barrage on a South Korean island over a loud speaker broadcasting propaganda over the border. It shows the governments getting desperate. The control the Kim dynasty has over the people relies on winning the information war, which they are losing.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Fox Fire

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Because they have a pretty big !@#$ military. And nukes. The only realistic chance of ending it without a nuclear holocaust is for the people of North Korea to take back their country.

Having a large military doesn't matter, including if they're poorly armed with outdated Soviet Weapons. I can give an great example as well; The USSR invading Finland, (USSR had a large army, and more tank divisions than Finland at the time) But, due to the Soviet's being leaded by inexperienced High Command (Which Stalin had purged the old Red Army leaders) and having poor conditioned weapons and training. 

 

The same can be said for DPRK, whose large military, is highly outdated in every aspect. 

 

The only trump card DPRK has, is some nuclear weapons. But then again, half of the tests DPRK does has a bad ratio of success in launching their missiles.

[Bernie Sanders The 2nd]

north korea are still around because the people actually like living in a non crapitalist society.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

north korea are still around because the people actually like living in a non crapitalist society.

Um, I don't see a "Capitalist society" in place as of now. U.S.A itself isn't a Capitalist state, if it has a mixed-economy going on with regulations in place.

 

But, DPRK is far from a paradise, I rather go live in Russia with Putin and his Olibarchs, instead of DPRK.

[Sargun]

I disagree. I see no reason why North Koreans can't take care of themselves in the absence of the Kim family. Further more, North Korea will likely never be part of South Korea even if the Kim dynasty falls. The people of North Korea have a pretty different culture than those in the south. Re-integration is likely impossible at this point. 

North Koreas nuclear program is not a joke. They actually have nukes and they can use them. I think people take it extremely seriously, as they should. 

You seem to think that everyone in North Korea is an incapable retard.

 

I don't care if you disagree.  You're wrong, and you should feel bad for perpetuating incorrect information.

 

1. Correct, re-integration would be very hard.  Nobody said anything about re-integrating though - I specifically pointed out that they wouldn't stay put in their own country (which has no economy, no infrastructure, no food, and no education) which implies that they wouldn't be unified with South Korea.  That point is entirely made up by yourself.

 

2. North Korea's nuclear program is a joke.  The nuclear weapons they currently possess are weaker than conventional weapons by a SIGNIFICANT margin and their delivery systems haven't had a successful test since the 1990s.  In fact the last several tests outside of a controlled detonation underground by an extremely small bomb have been failures.  Nuclear weapons are not the problem, it's the artillery along the border that can hit the outskirts of Seoul that is the problem.  And those only become a particular problem if DPRK has a first strike against RoK.

 

3. I never said DPRK citizens were "incapable retards".  I said they were uneducated, with no marketable skills, in a region with no economy or higher education to speak of.  I don't care how smart you are, if you're 40 years old in the DPRK you don't know shit about how to integrate into the modern world.  Let's assume they don't try to flee to another country - then there are no jobs in the former DPRK to perform, because the Kim family gutted all of it.  You can't support millions of people by chopping down trees.

 

4. The real world doesn't work like a television show or a movie.  Propaganda has very little effect on the DPRK regime; in fact, it helps bolster the Kim regime by allowing them to say "look, they actually ARE after us!"  People have always defected from DPRK - and people have defected from RoK to the DPRK.  This isn't anything new.

 

5. Jewish prisoner uprisings in WW2 almost universally were put down with extreme prejudice.  Do you mean the rebellion at Sobibor, which was put down (with only 50 successful survivors)?  Do you mean Treblinka, which was suppressed and everyone involved executed?  Do you mean Auschwitz, where the rebels were rounded up and killed after a failure?  Do you mean the Warsaw uprisings, which saw over ten thousand people killed in the street and tens of thousands more sent to concentration camps?  Unarmed uprisings against regimes that execute high-ranking advisors over minor arguments do not go well.  Stop romanticizing the past.

 

You need to educate yourself before you talk.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

I don't care if you disagree.  You're wrong, and you should feel bad for perpetuating incorrect information.

 

1. Correct, re-integration would be very hard.  Nobody said anything about re-integrating though - I specifically pointed out that they wouldn't stay put in their own country (which has no economy, no infrastructure, no food, and no education) which implies that they wouldn't be unified with South Korea.  That point is entirely made up by yourself.

 

2. North Korea's nuclear program is a joke.  The nuclear weapons they currently possess are weaker than conventional weapons by a SIGNIFICANT margin and their delivery systems haven't had a successful test since the 1990s.  In fact the last several tests outside of a controlled detonation underground by an extremely small bomb have been failures.  Nuclear weapons are not the problem, it's the artillery along the border that can hit the outskirts of Seoul that is the problem.  And those only become a particular problem if DPRK has a first strike against RoK.

 

3. I never said DPRK citizens were "incapable retards".  I said they were uneducated, with no marketable skills, in a region with no economy or higher education to speak of.  I don't care how smart you are, if you're 40 years old in the DPRK you don't know shit about how to integrate into the modern world.  Let's assume they don't try to flee to another country - then there are no jobs in the former DPRK to perform, because the Kim family gutted all of it.  You can't support millions of people by chopping down trees.

 

4. The real world doesn't work like a television show or a movie.  Propaganda has very little effect on the DPRK regime; in fact, it helps bolster the Kim regime by allowing them to say "look, they actually ARE after us!"  People have always defected from DPRK - and people have defected from RoK to the DPRK.  This isn't anything new.

 

5. Jewish prisoner uprisings in WW2 almost universally were put down with extreme prejudice.  Do you mean the rebellion at Sobibor, which was put down (with only 50 successful survivors)?  Do you mean Treblinka, which was suppressed and everyone involved executed?  Do you mean Auschwitz, where the rebels were rounded up and killed after a failure?  Do you mean the Warsaw uprisings, which saw over ten thousand people killed in the street and tens of thousands more sent to concentration camps?  Unarmed uprisings against regimes that execute high-ranking advisors over minor arguments do not go well.  Stop romanticizing the past.

 

You need to educate yourself before you talk.

I 100% agree with you. The Korean (North) people have been exposed to a different life-style, ever since 1953.

 

Like I stated; "The missiles have a low ratio of actually being successful in their launches".

[LordRahl2]

I don't care if you disagree. You're wrong, and you should feel bad for perpetuating incorrect information.

 

1. Correct, re-integration would be very hard. Nobody said anything about re-integrating though - I specifically pointed out that they wouldn't stay put in their own country (which has no economy, no infrastructure, no food, and no education) which implies that they wouldn't be unified with South Korea. That point is entirely made up by yourself.

 

2. North Korea's nuclear program is a joke. The nuclear weapons they currently possess are weaker than conventional weapons by a SIGNIFICANT margin and their delivery systems haven't had a successful test since the 1990s. In fact the last several tests outside of a controlled detonation underground by an extremely small bomb have been failures. Nuclear weapons are not the problem, it's the artillery along the border that can hit the outskirts of Seoul that is the problem. And those only become a particular problem if DPRK has a first strike against RoK.

 

3. I never said DPRK citizens were "incapable retards". I said they were uneducated, with no marketable skills, in a region with no economy or higher education to speak of. I don't care how smart you are, if you're 40 years old in the DPRK you don't know shit about how to integrate into the modern world. Let's assume they don't try to flee to another country - then there are no jobs in the former DPRK to perform, because the Kim family gutted all of it. You can't support millions of people by chopping down trees.

 

4. The real world doesn't work like a television show or a movie. Propaganda has very little effect on the DPRK regime; in fact, it helps bolster the Kim regime by allowing them to say "look, they actually ARE after us!" People have always defected from DPRK - and people have defected from RoK to the DPRK. This isn't anything new.

 

5. Jewish prisoner uprisings in WW2 almost universally were put down with extreme prejudice. Do you mean the rebellion at Sobibor, which was put down (with only 50 successful survivors)? Do you mean Treblinka, which was suppressed and everyone involved executed? Do you mean Auschwitz, where the rebels were rounded up and killed after a failure? Do you mean the Warsaw uprisings, which saw over ten thousand people killed in the street and tens of thousands more sent to concentration camps? Unarmed uprisings against regimes that execute high-ranking advisors over minor arguments do not go well. Stop romanticizing the past.

 

You need to educate yourself before you talk.

Your assessment of NK's military capacity and survivability is wrong friend.

 

You are not wrong that the assessments in this thread are very poor . . . yours included though.

[Nadir Aminu]

Conservatives care more about Iran than DPRK because Iran has oil is near Israel. We don't care about DPRK because they have no resources compared to Iran and are not near Israel. Also, its propaganda. The media wants to brainwash americans. If you watch CNN, Fox News, or ABC News, it gives you the idea that a nation with no nukes is worse than a nation with nukes and is testing them.

[Fox Fire]

The USSR invading Finland

 

The USSR invading Germany. 

[Franz Von Dietrich]

The USSR invading Germany. 

When USSR launched its counter-attack against Germany, it had a well-armed Army. The Germans after 1943 were under-manned and running short on supplies.

[Bernie Sanders The 2nd]

The USSR invading Germany. 

both were justified as both the Finnish and the germans were capitalist fascists.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

both were justified as both the Finnish and the germans were capitalist fascists.

You are really uneducated. Fascist and Capitalist have very different things, when it comes to economic policies.

[Fox Fire]

I don't care if you disagree.  You're wrong.

 

Bold claim for something you can't prove. I say you're wrong. So there... 

 

2. It needs work, yeah, but it exists and will only improve with time. They have rockets that can hit Japan.

3. This is a joke right? There are plenty of educated people in DPRK. Oh wait no! The nukes must have just been pulled out of glorious leader Kim Jong Un's ass! And what do you mean no higher education? You don't know much about Norht Korea do you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea

Consider this; DPRK is floating right now. If it weren't pouring all its resources into babying a minority population and trying maintain a massive military under global isolation, it wouldn't have a broken economy. In fact, I would blame the broken economy on political isolation way more than I would blame it on the actions of Kim. North Korea has been under siege from day one. 

4. Both the recent actions of DPRK and information smuggled out by North Koreans themselves, says the information war is most definitely having an effect. You're wrong.

5. Many of those Jews escaped, smart one.

[Bernie Sanders The 2nd]

You are really uneducated. Fascist and Capitalist have very different things, when it comes to economic policies.

both fascism and capitalism are far right ideologies that spread hatred of different people groups. the capitalist want to stamp on the poor and the fascist on the jews. both are the same type of thing.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

both fascism and capitalism are far right ideologies that spread hatred of different people groups. the capitalist want to stamp on the poor and the fascist on the jews. both are the same type of thing.

"Fascist on Jews" Once again, you're being ignorant on this issue. Mussolini version of Fascism did not discriminate against people who were Jewish, in fact many members of his party were Jewish. Let's talk about Socialism? And how they oppress any religion? If you wish to continue this discussion, Private Message me, do not derail the topic.

[Fox Fire]

"Fascist on Jews" Once again, you're being ignorant on this issue. Mussolini version of Fascism did not discriminate against people who were Jewish, in fact many members of his party were Jewish. Let's talk about Socialism? And how they oppress any religion? If you wish to continue this discussion, Private Message me, do not derail the topic.

He's trolling you.