I'm Just Going to Say It

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I would say the exact same thing and far more about Zionists who are committing genocide against Palestinians. I also doubt your claim of being well versed in the Bible and Noble Quran so I will give you a very simple challenge: Bring me a direct quote that is attributed to Jesus, in the bible, were he says "I am god! Worship me!" or something along those lines. 

For what is worth I am a Christian and my faith plays a huge role in all that I do. I have a hankering for peace, justice and forgiveness because that is what God desires. War and Murder are not pleasing to God, bloodshed is something to be majorly avoided. You challenge us on our bible knowledge so here goes:

 

In John 8 we find the following passage:

 

⁵⁷So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" ⁵⁸Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." ⁵⁹Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

 

In Hebrew the name of God is I am, that seems pretty obvious.

 

In John 5:

 

¹⁷ In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.‹⁸For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

 

Again pretty obvious.

 

Mark 2 says:

 

⁵ When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.†⁶ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ⁷ â€œWhy does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€

 

Again fairly obvious

 

In John 10 we have this fun passage that really seals what Jesus thought of himself:

 

²⁷ My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. ²⁸ I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. ²⁹ My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. ³⁰ I and the Father are one.â€

³¹ Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, ³² but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?â€

³³ â€œWe are not stoning you for any good work,†they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.â€

³⁴ Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “godsâ€? ³⁵ If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— ³⁶ what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? ³⁷ Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. ³⁸ But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†³⁹ Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 

I am sure you will say this is all false, but Mark is deemed to be the first book written so that is interesting. All these verses can be found in the earliest manuscripts. which predate Constantine by the way and so can't be seen as Roman additions.

 

How well do you actually know the Quran, have you read it in your native tongue? Anyway tomorrow I am off camping in a field in somerset, such is my dedication to my faith! I am glad to say that I will be going very quiet in terms of web usuage, so have fun.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[MRBOOTY]

Not going to bother getting the actual statistics since i am a bit busy at the moment but this certainly looks like a conservative estimate and I edited your quote, a bit, for accuracy. All the dictators and the Houthis you mentioned are all very bad (I'm not mincing my words here) as well as Iran which you failed to mention. I am not disputing you in this regard. They all need to be removed even if it takes military action but this has to be done by the people themselves with no foreign intervention. However the terrorist state of Israel should also certainly be removed, and that would be my contention. I will be away for a bit so won't be responding straight away.

No facts, no proof, no logic, just trying to stur up emotions to support an evil cause. May work in Europe, ain't going to work here. Extremist Muslims have killed 100 times what Zionist Jews have, and most of the time Arab civillians are killed it's because their countries started the war. That dosen't make what Israel does ok(and I'm actually getting yelled at by a friend for criticizing Israel too much btw), but it mean that your obsession with Israel is unfounded.

[MRBOOTY]

>Pro-Israel statement

>Anti-semitism

 

We've got a bright one here folks.

You called people "bad goyim". You can't seriously expect people to miss the sarcasm. But if you were being serious I apoligize, and even if you weren't, I apoligize for calling you a fa**ot. That was out of line.

 

Yes the people of Syria have been shedding their blood in that war if you're talking Assad's troops and the civilians killed, their enemy is widely considered to be from outside Syria. As for Jaysh Al Fateh oh look a collection of bandits, rebels, and fanatics. Army of Conquest indeed, at least they are honest eh?

 

What does support from Russia and Iran have to do with anything? The west's leaders may see fit to condemn Syria to the rule of madmen all to spite Russia, but I certainly don't have to agree with it. Turkey is an american puppet, they say what are told to so means little.  

 

 

I wouldn't put it down as subhuman. I could say I wouldn't debate a North Korean state official because what their government does is horrible, doesn't mean I see North Koreans as subhuman. 

Additionally the whole Israeli/Zionism actually being a code word for racism angle is crude and cheap. It is an attempt at a get of jail free card so the state of Israel can never be criticized. 

 

No idea what Galloway was thinking there, apparently he wasn't aware he was going to have to talk with someone Israeli on the matter and felt tricked/set up. I've seen him debate many Israelis before so he doesn't have a problem doing it from what I've seen. As for Saddam... again, if you're meeting a tyrant you don't tell him he is a bloodthirsty monster. Firstly diplomacy doesn't work like that, and second you may well not live much longer afterwards.

 

I disagree about the Saddam thing, but that you for clarifying your point, I see what you're saying now. 

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

My response will be in big black letters.

 

"In John 8 we find the following passage:

 

57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

 

In Hebrew the name of God is I am, that seems pretty obvious."

 

That verse you quoted is according to the Greek translation of the bible and the word used for "am" can also mean "have been" and Jesus didn't even say it in Greek. He spoke to them in Aramaic, and we do not have the original texts of Jesus' words.

 

In John 5:

 

17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.â€18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

 

Again pretty obvious.

 

This verse is a fabrication of the Church and all recent versions of the Bible, such as the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible, the New English Bible, the Phillips Modern English Bible ...etc. have all removed this verse from their pages.

 

Mark 2 says:

 

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.†6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€

 

Again fairly obvious

 

Here, the indirect speech being “are forgiven†which only proves that forgiveness is not by Jesus but by “God alone.â€

 

Now, when we come to the quotation: “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€, this simply implies that the Jews are falsely trying to accuse Jesus of making himself out to be God, in order to fulfil their conspiracy to send him for trial and death.

 

In John 10 we have this fun passage that really seals what Jesus thought of himself:

 

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.â€

 

Many people just take “I and the father are one.†and run with it but I'm glad you didn't because if you read the next six verses, you find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God. What Jesus obviously meant here is that he is one with the Father in purpose. Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. Obviously he wasn't praying that they all merge together to become one individual.

 

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?â€

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,†they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.â€

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods� 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 

"Son of God" means "Servant of God" in hebrew and the verses you quoted is Jesus actually denying he has any divinity. Now let look at Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus... and thus even to his disciples and to early Christians who weren't influenced by the Pauline doctrine, he was a man, not a God.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Khilafah

[Moreau]

Please, explain to me why the Jews, a people have have been !@#$ on for literally centuries, can't have their own nation?

I'm much like Mr Booty in my views (a tad more conservative though) in that Israel has a right to defend itself. But I also believe that, in time, Palestine should become its own nation. It's simply too dangerous to do right now as they'd almost certainly immediately use their new nation to funnel weapons in to attack Israel. As they said they would. 

 

...no?

That's what israel is doing m8

[Sailor Jerry]

Hasn't anyone realized yet that no matter what is said or what statistics are put out there, Khilafah will have a counter and tries to spin everything.  He can't except anything that anyone with a different point of view presents to him.  It's either his way or no way.  I'm surprised people are still going on with this crap.  You could tell him that the earth is round and he'll come up with some crazy shit to counter the statement.....not worth it anymore. 

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Hasn't anyone realized yet that no matter what is said or what statistics are put out there, Khilafah will have a counter and tries to spin everything.  He can't except anything that anyone with a different point of view presents to him.  It's either his way or no way.  I'm surprised people are still going on with this crap.  You could tell him that the earth is round and he'll come up with some crazy !@#$ to counter the statement.....not worth it anymore. 

 

That's simply not true. If I see falsehood I will confront it with the truth and if I see the truth I will follow it. That's how I operate and It matter not to me how other people feel about it, they should learn to keep their emotions in check. It's not about my view versus that of someone else, I don't have a view, it's about truth vs falsehood. If they choose to follow falsehood that's up to them but If I see it, 10/10 i will expose it for what it is, and they have the freedom to reject the truth after it's been made apparent to them - for they will only be deceiving themselves.

[WISD0MTREE]

That's simply not true. If I see falsehood I will confront it with the truth and if I see the truth I will follow it. That's how I operate and It matter not to me how other people feel about it, they should learn to keep their emotions in check. It's not about my view versus that of someone else, I don't have a view, it's about truth vs falsehood. If they choose to follow falsehood that's up to them but If I see it, 10/10 i will expose it for what it is, and they have the freedom to reject the truth after it's been made apparent to them - for they will only be deceiving themselves.

So at a funeral you would say the truth? I mean, if you don't care about emotions and say the truth... 

[Kyubnyan]

Hasn't anyone realized yet that no matter what is said or what statistics are put out there, Khilafah will have a counter and tries to spin everything.  He can't except anything that anyone with a different point of view presents to him.  It's either his way or no way.  I'm surprised people are still going on with this crap.  You could tell him that the earth is round and he'll come up with some crazy !@#$ to counter the statement.....not worth it anymore. 

Welcome to the internet.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

So at a funeral you would say the truth? I mean, if you don't care about emotions and say the truth... 

 

Giving speeches riddled with lies at funerals about the deceased is in your culture but as Muslims we don't do that. We hold a communal prayer for the person who passed away and then quickly proceed to bury them as fast as possible, after giving some words of comfort to the grieving family in private, but we do not necessaries have to say anything about the person who passed away other than make supplications for them. 

Edited August 20, 2015 by Khilafah

[Rozalia]

Giving speeches riddled with lies at funerals about the deceased is in your culture but as Muslims we don't do that. We hold a communal prayer for the person who passed away and then quickly proceed to bury them as fast as possible, after giving some words of comfort to the grieving family in private, but we do not necessaries have to say anything about the person who passed away other than make supplications for them. 

 

Look mate you're supposed to put over the deceased, not bury them. 

[Bilal the Great]

You guys. Falling for this !@#$.

 

Politics and War forum have reached another new people.

 

 

Also these fundies fitin' aboot their stuff.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Bilal the Great

[Doktor Avalanche]

 

My response will be in big black letters.

 

"In John 8 we find the following passage:

 

57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

 

In Hebrew the name of God is I am, that seems pretty obvious."

 

That verse you quoted is according to the Greek translation of the bible and the word used for "am" can also mean "have been" and Jesus didn't even say it in Greek. He spoke to them in Aramaic, and we do not have the original texts of Jesus' words.

 

In John 5:

 

17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.â€18For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

 

Again pretty obvious.

 

This verse is a fabrication of the Church and all recent versions of the Bible, such as the Revised Standard Version, the New Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible, the New English Bible, the Phillips Modern English Bible ...etc. have all removed this verse from their pages.

 

Mark 2 says:

 

5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.†6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€

 

Again fairly obvious

 

Here, the indirect speech being “are forgiven†which only proves that forgiveness is not by Jesus but by “God alone.â€

 

Now, when we come to the quotation: “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€, this simply implies that the Jews are falsely trying to accuse Jesus of making himself out to be God, in order to fulfil their conspiracy to send him for trial and death.

 

In John 10 we have this fun passage that really seals what Jesus thought of himself:

 

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.â€

 

Many people just take “I and the father are one.†and run with it but I'm glad you didn't because if you read the next six verses, you find Jesus explaining that his enemies were wrong to think that he was claiming to be God. What Jesus obviously meant here is that he is one with the Father in purpose. Jesus also prayed that his disciples should be one just as Jesus and the Father are one. Obviously he wasn't praying that they all merge together to become one individual.

 

31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?â€

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,†they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.â€

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods� 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

 

"Son of God" means "Servant of God" in hebrew and the verses you quoted is Jesus actually denying he has any divinity. Now let look at Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus... and thus even to his disciples and to early Christians who weren't influenced by the Pauline doctrine, he was a man, not a God.

 

Ever read the Peshitta? Education is your friend.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Anyone else notice how Jesus is mentioned more than Mohammed in the Qu'ran?

And how the only woman mentioned in detail is Mary? Curious, isn't it?

 

Muslims: Believe that Jesus was a messenger of god, that god allowed him to perform many miracles, that God intervened to save Jesus when the Jews/Romans tried to kill him but made it appear to them like they had killed him (when they didn't), and that he is the Messiah whom God will bring back to defeat the Anti Christ.

 

Jews: Believe he was an imposter, plotted to crucify him, and are mocking him to this day.

 

 

Muslims: Believe that Mary the mother of Jesus was the greatest woman to ever walk on the face of the earth, believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, and there is an entire chapter dedicated to Mary in the Quran in which Jesus miraculously defends the honour of his mother as an infant when the people dared to question her.

 

Jews: Question the honour of Mary and insult her to this day.

 

 

And yet the Christians love the Jews and hate the Muslims, why is that? That is the better question.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Khilafah

[cjx]

And yet the Christians love the Jews and hate the Muslims, why is that? That is the better question.

 

636  Muslims conquest of Syria, and the surrounding lands, all Christian, including Palestine and Iraq.

638  Muslim crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

641 Muslim crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

673 to 678  Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire.

711 to 713  Muslim crusaders conquer Christian Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus, the Muslim conquest moves into Europe with thousands of Christian women sold into slavery or raped to death.

718 Conquest of Spain complete.

732  Muslim invasion of France is stopped at the battle of Poitiers, turned back out of France

789  Rise of Idrisid amirs in Morocco; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

807  Caliph Harun al-Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses and the church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem.

809  Aghlabids (muslim pirates conquer Sardinia, Italy.

813  Christians in Palestine are attacked in mass, many flee the country.

831  Muslim pirates terrorize southern Italy.

837 to 901  Muslim pirates terrorize and conquer parts of Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy and France.

937  The Church of the Resurrection (aka Church of Holy Sepulcher) is burned down by Muslims with more churches in Jerusalem attacked shortly after.

960  Forced conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam.

1003  First persecutions by al-Hakim. The Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt is destroyed.

1009  Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al-Hakim.

1012  Beginning of al-Hakim’s oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians.

1071  Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia.

1071  Turks invade Palestine.

1073  Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks.

1075  Seljuks capture Nicea and make it their capital in Anatolia.

1076  Almoravids conquer western Ghana.

1096 first official Christian crusades are finally launched after hundreds of years of Islamic terrorism and violent oppression against Christians.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Allen Charra

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

 

711 to 713  Muslim crusaders conquer Christian Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus, the Muslim conquest moves into Europe with thousands of Christian women sold into slavery or raped to death.
718 Conquest of Spain complete.

 

Islamic Spain taught Europe the concept of tolerance. Muslims, Christians, and Jews all lived together in peace. It was what lifted Europe out of the dark ages and when the Christians invaded and began the "Spanish Inquisition", killing both Jews and Muslims alike. The Jews fled to Muslim lands in north Africa. 

 

Edited August 22, 2015 by Khilafah

[cjx]

>Muh yootoob video cuz I have nothing else to say to decades of islamic sponsored rape, torture and outright slaughter of christians

Topkek m8

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Topkek m8

 

Actually i can't respond to all your points when you post them all at once and i think that was your intention.

[cjx]

All my arguments have been demolished and I'm in full damage control mode

Sure thing bro, excuses are still excuses and my whole post is just one larger point that you're too ignorant to grasp.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Sure thing bro, excuses are still excuses and my whole post is just one larger point that you're too ignorant to grasp.

 

You haven't bothered to post any context for your simple minded "one line" sentences; let me know when you do and I will respond to it.

[cjx]

You haven't bothered to post any context for your simple minded "one line" sentences; let me know when you do and I will respond to it.

You're in maximum damage control right now and probably don't even know it.

 

You asked specifically why Christians dislike Muslims, you were given an entire list of viable reasons that have been ingrained into both religions for decades upon decades, completely excluding the next couple hundred years of Christian-Muslim violence that followed 1096.

 

Your only real response so far is some documentary you went and cherry picked without even watching its content first.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Allen Charra

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

You're in maximum damage control right now and probably don't even know it.

 

You asked specifically why Christians dislike Muslims, you were given an entire list of viable reasons that have been ingrained into both religions for decades upon decades, completely excluding the next couple hundred years of Christian-Muslim violence that followed 1096.

 

Your only real response so far is some documentary you went and cherry picked without even watching its content first.

 

- Wishful thinking on your part.

 

- You need to provide context for your one-line sentences before i will bother addressing them.

 

- I have watched it and it is relevant. 

[cjx]

- Wishful thinking on your part.

 

- You need to provide context for your one-line sentences before i will bother addressing them.

 

- I have watched it and it is relevant. 

Derriere demolished.

 

Close your browser and go to bed, you're confirmed for having no argument left and resorting to trollposts to save face.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Derriere demolished.

 

Close your browser and go to bed, you're confirmed for having no argument left and resorting to trollposts to save face.

 

I heard you like my videos.

 

[Rozalia]

And yet the Christians love the Jews and hate the Muslims, why is that? That is the better question.

 

Look mate your argument here is incredulous. The Jews have been long despised by Christians and still are by a great deal even if the multiculturalism police tries to make people believe otherwise. Muslims have been and were a threatening force for centuries until they were rendered toothless and were humiliated, and are going up as a threat in people's minds nowadays. 

Lets not pretend Muslims of the past (and that goes for those today looking at their states) are these super tolerate and forward thinking people. Ask the Zoroastrians how well things continued when the "tolerant" Muslims stole their land. 

 

Islam did some steps right on a bunch of things I'll give that much. However this propaganda (oddly spoken I find mostly by sanctimonious ivory tower residents instead of Muslims themselves) of Islam being this shiny beacon of all that is good while Christianity were in cave men times is quite ridiculous. 

The Spanish example often cited was more a case of a foreign ruling force having to placate the natives, then a generous show of tolerance. Good politics more then good morality I'd say.