On Donations

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

So I'm torn on donations. First off, I understand how important they are to keeping the game running, and I absolutely think that guys like Sheepy should make money off of a brilliant game.

 

On the other hand, there's no doubt that they provide a huge advantage to those who can pay. Someone could be managing their nation far better than someone else, but the second person can always cough up $30 and crush the first person. That seems a bit unfair to me, and I can't be the only one.  

 

Then there's the personal issue. I love P&W, and would love to give money, but I would feel kinda dirty surpassing people solely with my real-life cash. I would prefer to keep thriving without that boost, but I don't know if that's possible, especially because donations give you a monstrous amount of in-game cash.

 

So what do you think? Am I being silly? Should donations just be worth less in-game money, or should they be kept the same?

 

 

I'm interested as to what you guys think about this.

[Alex]

I understand your thoughts on this topic, as you're not the only person that feels this way. This is something that is brought up often, and my response is essentially this:

 

1) Donations are important, as you've already agreed. As much as I'd love to keep the game running on custom flags, alliance pips, etc. it's simply not feasible and doesn't work. We get like 1-2 of those a month.

2) Donations are capped at $30 per nation so that you can't buy your way to the top. Yes, they provide a boost, which to a smaller nation is large, but the top nations in the game already make ~$1,500,000/day. That means a $30 donation for them is roughly 3 days of revenue, and in comparison not much since you can get the donation only once per month.

3) Due to the game mechanics, we have what I like to call a "trickle-down" system. The whole global economy is tied around resources -- big nations buying them and small nations selling them. When there's more big nations, demand increases and prices go up. This causes the smaller nations to grow as they're able to sell their resources for more money. Donations are part of the boom of the in-game economy, as more money is added to the game nations buy more stuff which increased demand for resources and in turn everyone makes more money. Does the nation who sells the resources to the nation that donated to the game get as much? No, and it's only right that the donator gets an advantage, but as the money "trickles down" all of the smaller nations get a small boost as well.

 

I hope that settles your concerns, the donation system we've had in place so far has worked pretty well. Your nation looks relatively young, but when the game first went live there were no donation options for the first month, and the second month there was only small donations up to $15. Each month they grow with the game and have to increase to accommodate the growth of nations as well as increases in server and hosting costs.

[Dwynn]

The only way these games survive is on the charity of people. Either A) the players feel generous and contribute, or the admin feels generous and pays for it out of their own pocket.

 

Without that charity the game won't last. And if no players donate, the admins are less likely to continue supporting.

 

While I think the donation options should have been rolled out a bit more slowly, they need to be there for two reasons.

 

1.) It gives players who started later an option to try to catch up to those who don't donate.

2.) And it gives players who've devoted months of time building an option to rebuild quickly if they want to instead of having those months get wasted to nothing with no way to really recover.

 

Nobody says you have to donate, however I feel that if you enjoy the game, you should. Even if you're not donating for in-game bonuses, donate to support the game and extend it's life and help keep Sheepy motivated to work on it.

[Ayayay]

I think that I like the smallish jump from November to December. I do think that it should ultimately be capped at $1mil per $5 but that will probably be a few more months before we reach that point.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

I understand your thoughts on this topic, as you're not the only person that feels this way. This is something that is brought up often, and my response is essentially this:

 

1) Donations are important, as you've already agreed. As much as I'd love to keep the game running on custom flags, alliance pips, etc. it's simply not feasible and doesn't work. We get like 1-2 of those a month.

2) Donations are capped at $30 per nation so that you can't buy your way to the top. Yes, they provide a boost, which to a smaller nation is large, but the top nations in the game already make ~$1,500,000/day. That means a $30 donation for them is roughly 3 days of revenue, and in comparison not much since you can get the donation only once per month.

3) Due to the game mechanics, we have what I like to call a "trickle-down" system. The whole global economy is tied around resources -- big nations buying them and small nations selling them. When there's more big nations, demand increases and prices go up. This causes the smaller nations to grow as they're able to sell their resources for more money. Donations are part of the boom of the in-game economy, as more money is added to the game nations buy more stuff which increased demand for resources and in turn everyone makes more money. Does the nation who sells the resources to the nation that donated to the game get as much? No, and it's only right that the donator gets an advantage, but as the money "trickles down" all of the smaller nations get a small boost as well.

 

I hope that settles your concerns, the donation system we've had in place so far has worked pretty well. Your nation looks relatively young, but when the game first went live there were no donation options for the first month, and the second month there was only small donations up to $15. Each month they grow with the game and have to increase to accommodate the growth of nations as well as increases in server and hosting costs.

I get this, and it does make sense. Still, the top donation amount is huge for me.

 

Is there any chance that money received for donations will eventually be capped? I just feel like the current amount is a lot.

[Mikhail Gorbachev]

The only way these games survive is on the charity of people. Either A) the players feel generous and contribute, or the admin feels generous and pays for it out of their own pocket.

 

Without that charity the game won't last. And if no players donate, the admins are less likely to continue supporting.

 

While I think the donation options should have been rolled out a bit more slowly, they need to be there for two reasons.

 

1.) It gives players who started later an option to try to catch up to those who don't donate.

2.) And it gives players who've devoted months of time building an option to rebuild quickly if they want to instead of having those months get wasted to nothing with no way to really recover.

 

Nobody says you have to donate, however I feel that if you enjoy the game, you should. Even if you're not donating for in-game bonuses, donate to support the game and extend it's life and help keep Sheepy motivated to work on it.

I will donate, and I want Sheepy to be super successful, but you get my jist. It's just that A LOT of money is being given out. But I love this game, so I will have to swallow my guilt ( for the fact that I'm getting a personal gain out of it) and probably pay up 

[ooohu]

If nations are paying money they should have an advantage over nations that don't... it's as simple as that really. I don't donate and I wouldn't ask for parity with those who do considering they're literally keeping the game alive through their contributions. People donating having a slight advantage in the form of cash & resources is really the least they could ask for in that situation.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Thulium

[iljohn]

i think for the future we should either add or change a few of the donations to include 1) the ability to buy infa instead of cash as a way to still gain something later on when people get to big as a way no to turn this into a pay to win.

2) the ability to donate to reset the timmer for projects and citys as to not wait till its over

[Aisha Greyjoy]

The game can't cost that much to run.  You just need a hosting plan.  If ad's won't cover it, then donations are the only way.  And many of us are using firefox/chrome with adblock anyway, I bet.

[Dietrich]

You could just turn AdBlock off for P&W; that's what I've done. If anybody's going to get the fraction of a penny that marketing companies are willing to pay for me to suffer through a few extra milliseconds of loading time, it's going to be Sheepy.

 

Much as I dislike the donations-for-acceleration model, it's the only revenue model that works for games like this one, Sheepy has implemented a very reasonable version of that model.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

I have just allowed ads on this domain.  For Sheepy!

[SoS]

It's also a good balance the way Sheepy rewards activity. I'd like to see even more bonuses for activity that would improve the player retention.

[Pax]

I think donations are okay as they are. They don't make a ridiculous boost and we need some way for the game to keep going

[Alataq]

I think donations keep the server running. Personally I'm fine with donations.

[Wii]

I haven't decided on donating yet, but I like having the option to grow quickly because of it. 

[Hereno]

over time, donations will add up to the point where certain users are leagues ahead of the rest of us

 

this is considered fair because really, these games are just a racket for the creators where they basically get paid to let people win a game by paying money for it

 

i don't really get the appeal and frankly i don't really understand why i'm still even around, but the intelligent people will, eventually, find hobbies that are not rackets or games that require a mixture of luck and skill to win rather than money and time to win

 

besides, this game will probably be even more dead in like a year or so so frankly i'm perfectly fine with sheepy getting as much money as he can from the idiots actually willing to pay for nothing

[Dwynn]

over time, donations will add up to the point where certain users are leagues ahead of the rest of us

 

this is considered fair because really, these games are just a racket for the creators where they basically get paid to let people win a game by paying money for it

 

i don't really get the appeal and frankly i don't really understand why i'm still even around, but the intelligent people will, eventually, find hobbies that are not rackets or games that require a mixture of luck and skill to win rather than money and time to win

 

besides, this game will probably be even more dead in like a year or so so frankly i'm perfectly fine with sheepy getting as much money as he can from the idiots actually willing to pay for nothing

And yet, you've been around these types of games for years complaining about it. So there's that.

[Georgi Stomana]

While donation rewards are a big deal for new nations, I can't imagine that they mean very much once you have multiple cities.

[Hereno]

And yet, you've been around these types of games for years complaining about it. So there's that.

>taking it personally

 

[Dwynn]

>taking it personally

 

Not personal at all, I simply responded to something you said which is that you didn't understand why you still play these games, time, luck, etc etc

[Doriath]

I haven't given any donations yet but I might in the future if I ever have money to just drop on an online game. I don't ahve an issue with it.

[Neo-Nexus]

I'm so glad there's a cap to the amounts of times a person can donate per month, to keep it balanced

[Aaron Keener]

I donated and plan on donating as often as I can. Not only because I get a boost, but because it supports this game and it's creator. 

[Neo-Nexus]

I don't mind donating especially to this game

[Isaac Lazarus]

I've thrown in a few bucks a couple of times. Not enough that it's been more than a percent or two of my growth so I still feel like I've worked my way up, but it's at least something toward the server costs. Balance is everything.