Adama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I don't see how you can really blame Israel to be honest. Hamas keeps on firing rockets among other stuff. I wouldn't expect anything less of Israel, bar the high civilian casualty rate. You need to look past the current conflict and look at the historical reasons and causes behind it. People don't just try to kill others without reason, justified or not. Israel has been abusing the Palestinians and treating them like second class humans in an open air prison for the past 60 years. I would agree the Hammas is counter productive to the peace process, but that doesn't make their actions of resistance any less philosophically justifiable. There's only 1 country in this world where hebrew is official language and jewish official religion. There are "countless" countrys around Israel where arabic is official language and sunni official religion. Don't see any reason why such a state "Palestine" should even exist. Stupid local patriotism -.- What, do you just expect Jordan and Lebanon to just absorb the Palestinians? That would be like asking the United States to just take on the entire Mexican population and care for it, while caring for its own population. Palestine's neighbors know this too, which is why they reject the idea of taking on the population. The Palestinians were there first, and have had their land stripped from them in mass for over a century, they don't have to go anywhere, and they don't have anywhere to go because that is their home. They just need to be treated like equals for once on their own land instead of being pushed closer together in an ever shrinking open air prison. Quote If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a roll. There is one you will follow. One who is the shining star, and he will lead you to beautiful places in the search of his own vanity. And when there is no more vanity to be found, he will leave you in darkness, as a fading memory of his own creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiliam Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You need to look past the current conflict and look at the historical reasons and causes behind it. People don't just try to kill others without reason, justified or not. Israel has been abusing the Palestinians and treating them like second class humans in an open air prison for the past 60 years. I would agree the Hammas is counter productive to the peace process, but that doesn't make their actions of resistance any less philosophically justifiable. What, do you just expect Jordan and Lebanon to just absorb the Palestinians? That would be like asking the United States to just take on the entire Mexican population and care for it, while caring for its own population. Palestine's neighbors know this too, which is why they reject the idea of taking on the population. The Palestinians were there first, and have had their land stripped from them in mass for over a century, they don't have to go anywhere, and they don't have anywhere to go because that is their home. They just need to be treated like equals for once on their own land instead of being pushed closer together in an ever shrinking open air prison. Don't base this issue on historical reasons. The Palestinians were not there first. Ownership of Jerusalem and the surrounding area has probably changed hands more than any region in the world. It might have belonged to Palestine before the current modern state of Israel was created, but before that, you had a majority christian religion and before that you had a Jewish Majority. To actually state that the Muslims were there before the Jewish is actually totally incorrect and the fact is, between the too, Judaism was there before Islam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Don't base this issue on historical reasons. The Palestinians were not there first. Ownership of Jerusalem and the surrounding area has probably changed hands more than any region in the world. It might have belonged to Palestine before the current modern state of Israel was created, but before that, you had a majority christian religion and before that you had a Jewish Majority. To actually state that the Muslims were there before the Jewish is actually totally incorrect and the fact is, between the too, Judaism was there before Islam. Wut? You do realize that the people living there are the same ones that have lived there for millennia? Only the Jews were expelled, everyone else stayed. Here is your logic applied to modern times. Imagine if, tomorrow, the Russian government gained control of the USA and then decided to kick everyone living in New York out of the country. Then, 2000 years later, the descendants of those New Yorkers came back and declared all of the USA to be theirs and proceeded, with the help of foreign powers, to take half the country. Then, after the Americans who have been living there the entire time revolted, they proceeded to take more and more territory. Until they shoved all the Americans into either Washington and Oregon or the tip of Florida. How would you, as an American living in either two areas, react? "Oh no, it's okay, they can have my home in Virginia. We just want to live in peace." or "!@#$ them, we've been living here the entire time. They don't have the right to take my country." Edited November 16, 2014 by underlordgc Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 To actually state that the Muslims were there before the Jewish is actually totally incorrect and the fact is, between the too, Judaism was there before Islam. I don't think anyone is saying the Muslims were there before the Jews. They're saying (rightly) that the Palestinians were there before the Jews. Palestinians are not all Muslim. Palestinian is the modern term for the peoples described in the Jews own religious text as "Philistines," who were identified in that same text as descended from the "Canaanites," who were identified in that same text as the original inhabitants of Jerusalem, from whom the city was taken by force by the tribes of Israel after Joshua's death. 2 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If Israeli security fails, there would be a genocide. Yeah! But dont mind those hundreds of blown apart Palestinian children. Israel only kills a few hundred every 2-3 years. Its not that bad... I don't see how you can really blame Israel to be honest. Hamas keeps on firing rockets among other stuff. I wouldn't expect anything less of Israel, bar the high civilian casualty rate. I wouldnt expect anything less than bombing schools and executing unarmed civilians from Israel either. Well, the thing with palastine that's sick is that they keep firing missiles at Israel, refusing peace when they know they are going to loose. Ham as needs to just accept peace then move on. Well, its just sick that Hamas continues to fire missiles trying to kill people and hurt infrastructure when they know that Israel can just now right over them. Or maybe Israel should honor the agreement that created their shit state in the first place. Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 A two state solution is the only solution. The Jews are there and aren't leaving, finding a way to coexist peacefully is the only reasonable course of action. You can't destroy the Palestinian people and you can't expect all of the Jews to emigrate, so coexist and deal with it. Exactly. Coexsistence is the only solution. Which is exactly why a one state solution is the only solution. Palestine should be single, multicultural state, according to the Balfour declaration. Why should it be a Jewish or Muslim state? A two state solution will never work. We've been trying that for decades and getting absolutly nowhere in any way, shape or form. You cant sit there and do the same exact stupid shit over, and over, and over and over, and expect a different result. Its like saying: "If I stab myself in the leg with this knife, it will probably hurt. But perhaps if I stab myself a second time, it will feel good." Nope. Doesnt work that way. 1 Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheGreat19 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I have to agree with Fox fire, a two state solution is something Hamas will not go for, Hamas will not agree to something of that standard. And too top all this off, why would Israel create the Gaza Strip if it is a threat to them! 1 Quote Ist Anschluss Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I have to agree with Fox fire, a two state solution is something Hamas will not go for, Hamas will not agree to something of that standard. Screw Hamas. Its what Palestinian people want that matters. (But oddly enough, right now, they want Hamas). Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheGreat19 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 I never was against the Palastinian people, I just think that Hamas is getting a little too overboard with being stuborn.:-) Quote Ist Anschluss Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I never was against the Palastinian people, I just think that Hamas is getting a little too overboard with being stuborn.:-) Dont get me wrong, I support the people of Palestine, but Hamas is terrible. I can agree with you on that one. I'm sure if they had F-18s, they'd have no problem indiscriminately bombing Jewish civilians. On the other hand, I think the Israeli government is just as terrible and needs to relax their "boxing in" of Gaza at the very least. Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheGreat19 Posted November 17, 2014 Author Share Posted November 17, 2014 Dont get me wrong, I support the people of Palestine, but Hamas is terrible. I can agree with you on that one. I'm sure if they had F-18s, they'd have no problem indiscriminately bombing Jewish civilians. On the other hand, I think the Israeli government is just as terrible and needs to relax their "boxing in" of Gaza at the very least. Yes I completely agree with you. But still Gaza needs to just calm down. Quote Ist Anschluss Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 My wild fantasies want some kind of federation (or Confederation), but my rational self tells me being apart of the same soveriegn body wont solve the religious melting pot. Quote Leader of UPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsuper Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Well, the thing with palastine that's sick is that they keep firing missiles at Israel, refusing peace when they know they are going to loose. Ham as needs to just accept peace then move on. Well, its just sick that Hamas continues to fire missiles trying to kill people and hurt infrastructure when they know that Israel can just now right over them. ^This. They escalate conflicts that they cannot win, in order to pile up dead bodies for PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Exactly. Coexsistence is the only solution. Which is exactly why a one state solution is the only solution. Palestine should be single, multicultural state, according to the Balfour declaration. Why should it be a Jewish or Muslim state? A two state solution will never work. We've been trying that for decades and getting absolutly nowhere in any way, shape or form. You cant sit there and do the same exact stupid !@#$ over, and over, and over and over, and expect a different result. Its like saying: "If I stab myself in the leg with this knife, it will probably hurt. But perhaps if I stab myself a second time, it will feel good." Nope. Doesnt work that way. Exactly this, but it will never happen. ;'( I cut myself in the same spot when I was a kid. I was wondering if it would hurt more or the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Gorbachev Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 (edited) You need to look past the current conflict and look at the historical reasons and causes behind it. People don't just try to kill others without reason, justified or not. Israel has been abusing the Palestinians and treating them like second class humans in an open air prison for the past 60 years. I would agree the Hammas is counter productive to the peace process, but that doesn't make their actions of resistance any less philosophically justifiable. What, do you just expect Jordan and Lebanon to just absorb the Palestinians? That would be like asking the United States to just take on the entire Mexican population and care for it, while caring for its own population. Palestine's neighbors know this too, which is why they reject the idea of taking on the population. The Palestinians were there first, and have had their land stripped from them in mass for over a century, they don't have to go anywhere, and they don't have anywhere to go because that is their home. They just need to be treated like equals for once on their own land instead of being pushed closer together in an ever shrinking open air prison. interesting how Arabs are in the parliment, Supreme Court, and Universities of Israel right? Is that like their "rec time" from the open air prison? Israeli treatment of Palestinians is horrible and needs to be stopped, but the "second class citizen" idea is a bit over the top IMO. The Palestinians in Israel have full rights, and the ones in mandatory Palestine aren't Israelis. If I were to go to France and then try to claim full rights as a French citizen (while saying I wanted to kill all French people) and then complained about apartheid when they refused to give me those full rights, what would be said about me? Edited November 18, 2014 by Mikhail Gorbachev 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisha Greyjoy Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 When people refer to a one state solution, they mean one state in the area, with jews and muslims as its citizens. A two-state solution refers to Palestine and Israel as separate states. I only mention this(semi-obvious) because I think some people don't quite get that from the comments above. Quote Duke of House Greyjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Yes I completely agree with you. But still Gaza needs to just calm down. I'd be pretty pissed too if a bunch of foreigners exiled millions of my people into a small box, blockaded my port, bombed my house, destroyed the tunnels we had no choice but to resort to just to have an economy and dictated anything and everything that goes in or out. You really cant blame them. Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I'd be pretty pissed too if a bunch of foreigners exiled millions of my people into a small box, blockaded my port, bombed my house, destroyed the tunnels we had no choice but to resort to just to have an economy and dictated anything and everything that goes in or out. You really cant blame them. You mean the tunnels that were made for suicide bombers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) You mean the tunnels that were made for suicide bombers? They are used for all sorts of !@#$. Mostly smuggling things in and out of Gaza, because thats the only economy they have left with IDF blowing up Gaza city every couple years..... Edited November 19, 2014 by Fox Fire Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheGreat19 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I'd be pretty pissed too if a bunch of foreigners exiled millions of my people into a small box, blockaded my port, bombed my house, destroyed the tunnels we had no choice but to resort to just to have an economy and dictated anything and everything that goes in or out. You really cant blame them. Yeah but still Gaza is way more sick than israel. Quote Ist Anschluss Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yeah but still Gaza is way more sick than israel.I've been holding my tongue for pages and pages but I cannot with you anymore. Citation needed. 1 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanTheGreat19 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Share Posted November 20, 2014 I've been holding my tongue for pages and pages but I cannot with you anymore. Citation needed. Whoa I didn't mean to offend or annoy you I'm just trying to have a friendly debate. Quote Ist Anschluss Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 (edited) Yeah but still Gaza is way more sick than israel. I wouldn't say that. After all, the IDF just got done bombing multiple schools, Shifa Hospital, the only power plant in Gaza, and blowing hundreds of children (thats just children) to tiny pieces. There are also numerous reports throughout the years of IDF soldiers intentionally murdering unarmed civilians and children. Like the sniper who shot an unarmed little girl, walked up to her and unloaded a full magazine into her. Or heres a pretty recent one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0 Theres also the sniper who's now going behind bars for bragging about killing 13 Palestinian children on the internet. I dont think anyone has room to be saying any nation is more sick than Israel. The type of sick !@#$ the IDF does is comparable only to people like Hitler, Stalin or Kim Jong Un. Edited November 20, 2014 by Fox Fire Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatnate Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I wouldn't say that. After all, the IDF just got done bombing multiple schools, Shifa Hospital, the only power plant in Gaza, and blowing hundreds of children (thats just children) to tiny pieces. There are also numerous reports throughout the years of IDF soldiers intentionally murdering unarmed civilians and children. Like the sniper who shot an unarmed little girl, walked up to her and unloaded a full magazine into her. Or heres a pretty recent one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUibXSgILv0 Theres also the sniper who's now going behind bars for bragging about killing 13 Palestinian children on the internet. I dont think anyone has room to be saying any nation is more sick than Israel. The type of sick !@#$ the IDF does is comparable only to people like Hitler, Stalin or Kim Jong Un. Well, shit. Who knew that Zionists were terrible people? Sounds like respecting the existing Palestinian states are the only solution. If we don't want a two state solution, why don't we give every Israeli and every Palestinian a knife and tell them to go stab each other. What, that's not humane? Shit, maybe they should learn to coexist or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aisha Greyjoy Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 I dont think anyone has room to be saying any nation is more sick than Israel. The type of sick !@#$ the IDF does is comparable only to people like Hitler, Stalin or Kim Jong Un. They learned from the best! 1 Quote Duke of House Greyjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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