Raise the minimum wage?

[Nikolai Demichev]

Yes it should be raised into a Living wage level.

[Grillick]

I see all these college students complaining about not making enough money.

 

It's obviously so easy to get money. There are tons of jobs out there, but people don't want to start at the bottom and work their way up.

 

Now if you get one of these jobs that pay 7.25 an hour. Which is real good due to the fact you are unskilled, either doing a task a monkey should do, but can't since you are working with food and need you to speak some english.

 

Now assuming you are going to a public University, and excluding all other expenses such as food, housing, gas, etc. We will just look at tuition. We will assume it's 4k a semester.

 

So if you work for 7.25 an hour you will have to work 552 hours to get 4k untaxed. That is working for 13 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, and 24 minutes at 40 hours a week.

 

This sounds way to reasonable, and like these college students are taking advantages of the system.

Never mind the fact that two-thirds of people working at or below minimum wage are over 25. Never mind the fact that the median tuition is around 15k. Never mind the fact that food, housing, gas, etc. aren't free.

[Dolphman]

I always thought we should raise it by our inflation rate. (or calculate a raise into the inflation rate). Into then your taxes currently pay for the full-time minimum wage earners, so it makes no real difference

[elsuper]

San Francisco passed a bill the other day to raise minimum wage to $15 by 2018, up from $10.74 currently, an increase of almost 40%. An interesting case study to observe.

 

I always thought we should raise it by our inflation rate. (or calculate a raise into the inflation rate). Into then your taxes currently pay for the full-time minimum wage earners, so it makes no real difference

 

I'm not sure I follow your meaning in the second sentence. Are you pointing out that taxpayers subsidize minimum wage earners through welfare programs?

[Willam von Waldreich]

There should be a Living wage to ensure that a basic family of 3 can live comfortably but bot in a manshion or anything

[Iodine]

History has been plagued by the ever constant battle between the bourgeoisie and the less fortunate. In recent times, most of the wealth has been transferred to the top 1%. The general population will lose buying power and become less and less relevant to the greedy corporations. Only a revolution can save us.

[Emmad]

People do realize when minimum wage is increased businesses also increase prices to make up for the difference. So it would be counterproductive, the people that it was supposedly going to help end up back in the same situation. However there is also the possibility that they end up in a worse situation because some employers will choose to only keep so many employees. In that situation not only is the person paying higher prices but they also lost their job.

[Grillick]

People do realize when minimum wage is increased businesses also increase prices to make up for the difference. So it would be counterproductive, the people that it was supposedly going to help end up back in the same situation. However there is also the possibility that they end up in a worse situation because some employers will choose to only keep so many employees. In that situation not only is the person paying higher prices but they also lost their job.

If you honestly believe that an increase in the minimum wage will result in an equal increase in prices, then there's really no point in arguing with you since you clearly have no concept of scale or reality

Edited November 11, 2014 by Grillick

[Emmad]

No, I think I do. The people who say it won't cause prices to go up don't have any concept of reality. Plus minimum wage is the bottom line for what you get paid, the goal is to go up not stay there until you are 30. It's practically the main concept of capitalism...better yourself as opposed to doing the bare minimum. If we increase it every time someone complains it just takes away the gratification of getting a raise. And another issue is that employers don't just pay the employees, they also have to pay into the safety nets already in place by the gov that they are required to pay into. So that $2 raise (here it would be about 1.75 if it goes up to 10) would cost an employer more than an additional $2 per hour. But I'm honestly not 100% opposed to raising it, I just think we need to also reform some of the tax code before we do.

[elsuper]

If you honestly believe that an increase in the minimum wage will result in an equal increase in prices, then there's really no point in arguing with you since you clearly have no concept of scale or reality

 

Lol at 5th repetition of this in this thread.

 

No, I think I do. The people who say it won't cause prices to go up don't have any concept of reality. Plus minimum wage is the bottom line for what you get paid, the goal is to go up not stay there until you are 30. It's practically the main concept of capitalism...better yourself as opposed to doing the bare minimum. If we increase it every time someone complains it just takes away the gratification of getting a raise. And another issue is that employers don't just pay the employees, they also have to pay into the safety nets already in place by the gov that they are required to pay into. So that $2 raise (here it would be about 1.75 if it goes up to 10) would cost an employer more than an additional $2 per hour. But I'm honestly not 100% opposed to raising it, I just think we need to also reform some of the tax code before we do.

 

Grillick's point though, as he's tired of repeating it, isn't that prices won't increase at all. It's that prices won't increase as much as the minimum wage does.

Edited November 11, 2014 by elsuper

[Solomon]

Maybe it's time to split this thread into two - one where we can talk economics and the other for a robust discussion on the merits of grinding one's own axes.

[Ayayay]

Maybe it's time to split this thread into two - one where we can talk economics and the other for a robust discussion on the merits of grinding one's own axes.

Wow, swordphobic much? 

 

But yea, this thread has become a broken record. You can even hear that annoying clicking noise.

[Placentica]

I was expecting this thread to reach a 100% consensus by page 5.  Color me shocked.

[Toxxikation]

Are you kidding? It's a political argument. It won't reach 5% consensus by page 100!

[Dolphman]

Not that knowledgeable, but I personally think that its really same shit either way. Currently unskilled workers basically pay little taxes (as in tax returns) and welfare helps them make do . So its up to society, do you want to pay a continuously (long-term) rising taxes or more for that burger?

 

 

[SoS]

If you honestly believe that an increase in the minimum wage will result in an equal increase in prices, then there's really no point in arguing with you since you clearly have no concept of scale or reality

I don't think anyone ever said it would result in an equal increase in price (big mac would cost $7 more than now - no).

 

But there will be a (more than) equal increase in cost. Whatever the percentage of cost labor represents for a business will be doubled. If that's 20% the cost to produce will increase 20%. You can argue the business may do any number of things to reduce costs, but they have already streamlined costs. Maybe, they can further innovate or die. Most likely they will raise prices an equal percentage of what their costs are increased.

 

But please don't use this blanket statement to pretend I don't understand cost or price.

[Aisha Greyjoy]

History has been plagued by the ever constant battle between the bourgeoisie and the less fortunate. In recent times, most of the wealth has been transferred to the top 1%. The general population will lose buying power and become less and less relevant to the greedy corporations. Only a revolution can save us.

I think of bourgeoisie as more of a middle class thing.  I'd switch it to "the ever constant battle the elites and the commoners", which accurately sums up Occupy Wall Street, chinese democracy protestors, the French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, and the great peasant revolts of the middle ages and renaissance.

[Solomon]

Whatever the percentage of cost labor represents for a business will be doubled. If that's 20% the cost to produce will increase 20%.

If labor cost is 20% of product cost, a 10% increase in labor cost will add 2% to the product cost.

[SoS]

If labor cost is 20% of product cost, a 10% increase in labor cost will add 2% to the product cost.

The big issue here is the size of the proposed raise. $7.25 to $15. That would double labor costs.

[Grillick]

It would double the cost of minimum wage labor. Less than 1% of the labor force works at or below minimum wage.

[Adam Deering]

I believe that they have the right to a minimum wage but it should not be  what is being demanded by workers. I think that the Presidents plan of raising minimum wage to 11$ by 2017. It should not be something like 15-16$ because then the companies will have to cut either the quality of the product in order to pay wages or lay people off to cut down on operating costs. I think we should find what it would take to have someone make just enough money to live in middle poverty and give them that figure. Also I might add that I am a strong Republican siding with the president on an issue.  

[SoS]

It would double the cost of minimum wage labor. Less than 1% of the labor force works at or below minimum wage.

Which is exactly what's being debated here.

[Grillick]

No, it isn't. Everyone (except, apparently, you) is trying to discuss the effect of an increase in the minimum wage on the overall economy. The evidence you have presented so far in this case references the economy as a whole. You can't make blanket assertions based on assumptions that aren't clear from the context.

 

Yes, an employee whose entire workforce is minimum wage would have to increase prices to pay for the increased wage. Such an employer might price himself out of the market by doing so. Good riddance to a business that was passing its cost of labor on to taxpayers.

 

Overall, our economy would be healthier if welfare payments were limited to those who are unable to find full-time employment. The best way to do that is to require employers to pay their employees enough so that a full-time employee is not in poverty.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Grillick

[SoS]

It's been a struggle of scale and scope to even get you to concede that prices would increase.

 

Overall, economically, there's a long history of poverty. And in the long history of the minimum wage, it's still a poverty wage. It won't solve the problem.

[WISD0MTREE]

If you honestly believe that an increase in the minimum wage will result in an equal increase in prices, then there's really no point in arguing with you since you clearly have no concept of scale or reality

 

 

Grillick's point though, as he's tired of repeating it, isn't that prices won't increase at all. It's that prices won't increase as much as the minimum wage does.

And you have yet to show proof.