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Elijah Muhammad

Final Call to Islam

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Greetings, people of Politics and war. On behalf of the Nation of Islam I have made this Final Call to Islam in the style of that of the original and actual Elijah Muhammad. In an effort to educate and build membership for the Nation of Islam, I have created this thread so that we may discuss on open and equal terms the basic ideas behind our organization. Parties to such strong voices as civil rights leader Malcolm X, the history of the Nation of Islam is one of fighting for the rights of all people - particularly those who are disenfranchised in America, such as African-Americans, Muslims, and women.

 

We believe the following:

 

1. While all people are created equal, not all cultures and ideologies are created equal.

 

1a. The religion Christianity of White America and our duped African brothers is built on the idea of Allah SWT being a man and being murdered. These people want to kill Allah SWT under His banner: and that is what they have tried to do with their bombs in the Middle East, which threaten the lives of millions of men, women, and children in multiple countries. There is much talk in Western media of the suicide bombings which our misguided brothers unfortunately see are necessary in their struggle to defend Islam. But when will you stop your bombings?

 

1b. The culture of White America is inferior in that it promotes both decadence and consumption. The people of White America are lazy - they do not want to work because they see no value in it. All they want to do is buy new things. New, shiny things. That distract them from each other and from Allah SWT. Their concentration on the material world has led them to this horrid behavior which deems acceptable the mass murder of people based solely on believing differently than they do. Out of fear, out of anger - it doesn't matter. White America is sick on the property it stole from the Middle East, Africa, and all around the world, and we are all suffering for it.

 

2. The answer to the problems of the modern world is Islam.

 

2a. Islam means to surrender: to surrender to the will of Allah SWT. Allah SWT is all-knowing and most merciful. Whether or not you submit: he forgives you. Whether or not you understand: he does. Allah SWT loves all and what he wants, not demands, is love in return. From all of His children. He calls on us to abandon our addictions to technology and consumerism and embrace His love. Not to abandon reality - but to live in moderation, as is the will of Allah SWT. He calls on us to abandon our hatred. Not to be passive in the face of aggression - but to moderate our response, as is the will of Allah SWT. And not to be blind to the sins of others, but to be understanding and forgiving of them, because we are all sinners in the eyes of Allah SWT.

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1) If Islam is so caring, how do you explain its vast history of abuse and slavery especially when it comes to Africans as well as its downtrodden treatment of women?

 

2) While decadence might exist today, why do you prioritize focusing on people being white when it comes to identifying that decadence?

 

3) If Islam believes in moderation, why does it advocate reactionary lifestyles?

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Would you please play the game, so we can DEUS VULT!

 

"Islam means to surrender"

+1

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Today's atheist pride day lol

 

Time for me to go tell my religion teacher xD

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Today's atheist pride day lol

Time for me to go tell my religion teacher xD

Do it

Right now

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1) If Islam is so caring, how do you explain its vast history of abuse and slavery especially when it comes to Africans as well as its downtrodden treatment of women?

 

2) While decadence might exist today, why do you prioritize focusing on people being white when it comes to identifying that decadence?

 

3) If Islam believes in moderation, why does it advocate reactionary lifestyles?

 

1. A vast history of abuse and slavery is not the history of Islam but of the world. Through Allah SWT, it is forgiven.

 

2. I am not prioritizing the color, merely identifying the group in the easiest way possible. They are the descendants of Europeans. The race is unimportant.

 

3. Some twist Islam into something it is not - I admit. People often see what they want to see. That is the point of this thread - to educate.

 

Now, allow me to ask you a question. Why is it that in response to my post, rather than defending the actions of White America, you chose to attack me on all three points?

 

Would you please play the game, so we can DEUS VULT!

 

"Islam means to surrender"

+1

 

What do you mean?

 

Like playing PW? 

 

All things in moderation.

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Malcolm X, like Doctor King, evolved his view point to be much more class centric than race based as you're referencing. Malcolm X, iirc, was one of the supporters of the White Panthers, white allies of the black Panthers and part of the planned rainbow coalition against oppression. Also worth noting that Malcolm X's gender politics improved immensely as he drifted from Islam and evolved his viewpoint.

 

X and King would be much more in line with the anti carceral feminism than any mainstream varient of Islam. There are progressive voices in Islam, but I think we can safely rule you out.

Edited by durmij

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Malcolm X, like Doctor King, evolved his view point to be much more class centric than race based as you're referencing. Malcolm X, iirc, was one of the supporters of the White Panthers, white allies of the black Panthers and part of the planned rainbow coalition against oppression. Also worth noting that Malcolm X's gender politics improved immensely as he drifted from Islam and evolved his viewpoint.

 

X and King would be much more in line with the anti carceral feminism than any mainstream varient of Islam. There are progressive voices in Islam, but I think we can safely rule you out.

 

I care not for your labels - only for your ears. On what basis do you dismiss my arguments?

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1. A vast history of abuse and slavery is not the history of Islam but of the world. Through Allah SWT, it is forgiven.

 

2. I am not prioritizing the color, merely identifying the group in the easiest way possible. They are the descendants of Europeans. The race is unimportant.

 

3. Some twist Islam into something it is not - I admit. People often see what they want to see. That is the point of this thread - to educate.

 

Now, allow me to ask you a question. Why is it that in response to my post, rather than defending the actions of White America, you chose to attack me on all three points?

 

1) Just because the world does something wrong doesn't mean you should go along with it.  That said, I strongly disagree with you here.  Western Civilization didn't practice slavery after the fall of the Roman Empire until Muslims reintroduced it starting with the enslavement of Africans.  In fact, pagan Vikings very deliberately traded Anglo-Saxon and Celtic slaves with Muslims across Slavic lands.  Likewise, chivalry appreciated feminine graces to encourage gentlemanly behavior, something which wasn't emulated among Muslims.

 

2) Just because something's easy doesn't make it right.  Why don't you engage the beliefs people have instead to see who among whites are the decadent ones?

 

3) What among Islamic scripture convinces you Islam advocates moderate lifestyles?  If anything, the reactionaries are the actual Muslims and the moderates are the ones who are twisting it into something it's not.  Don't get me wrong, their compromise is obviously appreciated, but moderates should be recognized for the compromise they're doing instead of advocating an original and pure Muslim lifestyle.

 

I don't defend "white America" because I know there's no such thing, especially since in real life, I'm a third degree Knight of Columbus who realizes how different white people are different.  For example, there was never any Italian, Irish, or Polish Empire that engaged in slavery, yet these are all white people.  When these people immigrated to America and upheld their Catholic beliefs, they believed in universal grace which means treating everyone with respect.  

 

These whites were discriminated against upon their arrival because of being Catholics in contrast to the Protestant Work Ethic that pervaded Americana ever since its foundation.  That belief system, by the way, is what upheld slavery in claiming that African civilization obviously hadn't performed sufficient good works to prove it was chosen by God to be elected for salvation in representing a predestined calling, a system that was practiced by the Royal African Company of Britain as well as the Dutch West Indies Company.  In fact, these Protestants implictly allied with Muslims in the Ottoman Empire during the Reformation, throughout the 30 Years' War, and against the Hapsburg Empire.

 

If you want to have a serious debate, then seriously understand why things happen.  Don't jump to conclusions by judging people according to what they are before who they are.

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1) Just because the world does something wrong doesn't mean you should go along with it.  That said, I strongly disagree with you here.  Western Civilization didn't practice slavery after the fall of the Roman Empire until Muslims reintroduced it starting with the enslavement of Africans.  In fact, pagan Vikings very deliberately traded Anglo-Saxon and Celtic slaves with Muslims across Slavic lands.  Likewise, chivalry appreciated feminine graces to encourage gentlemanly behavior, something which wasn't emulated among Muslims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSYraWg8ceM

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Even if you want to argue they were treated better, the bottomline is they were abducted from their homelands, expected to work without consent, and had no prospects to look forward to until they were emancipated.  On top of that, vicious cycles of childbearing, child abandonment, and forced prostitution leading to future generations of slaves didn't make their lives any better.

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1) Just because the world does something wrong doesn't mean you should go along with it.  That said, I strongly disagree with you here.  Western Civilization didn't practice slavery after the fall of the Roman Empire until Muslims reintroduced it starting with the enslavement of Africans.  In fact, pagan Vikings very deliberately traded Anglo-Saxon and Celtic slaves with Muslims across Slavic lands.  Likewise, chivalry appreciated feminine graces to encourage gentlemanly behavior, something which wasn't emulated among Muslims.

 

2) Just because something's easy doesn't make it right.  Why don't you engage the beliefs people have instead to see who among whites are the decadent ones?

 

3) What among Islamic scripture convinces you Islam advocates moderate lifestyles?  If anything, the reactionaries are the actual Muslims and the moderates are the ones who are twisting it into something it's not.  Don't get me wrong, their compromise is obviously appreciated, but moderates should be recognized for the compromise they're doing instead of advocating an original and pure Muslim lifestyle.

 

I don't defend "white America" because I know there's no such thing, especially since in real life, I'm a third degree Knight of Columbus who realizes how different white people are different.  For example, there was never any Italian, Irish, or Polish Empire that engaged in slavery, yet these are all white people.  When these people immigrated to America and upheld their Catholic beliefs, they believed in universal grace which means treating everyone with respect.  

 

These whites were discriminated against upon their arrival because of being Catholics in contrast to the Protestant Work Ethic that pervaded Americana ever since its foundation.  That belief system, by the way, is what upheld slavery in claiming that African civilization obviously hadn't performed sufficient good works to prove it was chosen by God to be elected for salvation in representing a predestined calling, a system that was practiced by the Royal African Company of Britain as well as the Dutch West Indies Company.  In fact, these Protestants implictly allied with Muslims in the Ottoman Empire during the Reformation, throughout the 30 Years' War, and against the Hapsburg Empire.

 

If you want to have a serious debate, then seriously understand why things happen.  Don't jump to conclusions by judging people according to what they are before who they are.

 

1. The Code of Chivalry had almost nothing to do with the treatment of women: this is a modern myth. By contrast, Islam brought sweeping, positive changes to the Arabian peninsula regarding the treatment of women.

 

2. Am I not here engaging the actual beliefs that people have right now? White America means the predominant culture among white Americans. A large part of that is Christianity. It is not racist to tell the truth.

 

3. My Islam is true to me and the other members of the Nation and that is all that matters. "Extreme" is not a synonym for "correct", and I will not be drawn into defending actions I do not believe are just and Islamic.

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Rather than creating a debate on Islam and muslims on this and that I only dislike ONE thing about this.

 

As a friendly piece of advice to you: Don't advertise religion in a politics game.

If you want them to come to Islam befriend them and be the example of WHY they should accept Islam. Because if they see a good hearted person they will follow as they did Muhammad (S.A.W).

P.S. Don't be like Ibrahim (The PnW Player) or Moreau, or Abu Haddad who openly cursed those who didn't follow their ideology.

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1) If Islam is so caring, how do you explain its vast history of abuse and slavery especially when it comes to Africans as well as its downtrodden treatment of women? Probably the same way we do. Slavery was ended and that it existed before appears to not bother the US in general; Abuse against black people being disproportionate is because the US doesn't care; We do the same with denying feminism, having taken centuries to allow women to serve as full members of the active military units, defeating the ERA as an amendment, and only for the last century or so have we even permitted them a voice in politics. Things are better, but I'd suspect they'd explain theirs in a similar, but not identical, way as we do.

 

2) While decadence might exist today, why do you prioritize focusing on people being white when it comes to identifying that decadence? NOI isn't accepted generally as an actual part of Islam as a religion. They're black nationalists similar to Aryan Nations except black instead of white.

 

3) If Islam believes in moderation, why does it advocate reactionary lifestyles? "Islam" doesn't believe in anything. It doesn't have a centralized religious authority so you not only get Shiites versus Sunnis versus Alawaites versus Kurds and so on and so on. Most have serious issues with other branches' policies and interpretations.

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1. The Code of Chivalry had almost nothing to do with the treatment of women: this is a modern myth. By contrast, Islam brought sweeping, positive changes to the Arabian peninsula regarding the treatment of women.

 

2. Am I not here engaging the actual beliefs that people have right now? White America means the predominant culture among white Americans. A large part of that is Christianity. It is not racist to tell the truth.

 

3. My Islam is true to me and the other members of the Nation and that is all that matters. "Extreme" is not a synonym for "correct", and I will not be drawn into defending actions I do not believe are just and Islamic.

 

1) Go on.  Prove your point.

 

2) There is no such thing as "the predominant culture among white Americans."  It is racist, and in fact, that exact argument used to be made against plenty of other ethnic groups.

 

3) You still haven't shown how Islamic scripture advocates moderate lifestyles.

Edited by Argotitan

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1) If Islam is so caring, how do you explain its vast history of abuse and slavery especially when it comes to Africans as well as its downtrodden treatment of women? Probably the same way we do. Slavery was ended and that it existed before appears to not bother the US in general; Abuse against black people being disproportionate is because the US doesn't care; We do the same with denying feminism, having taken centuries to allow women to serve as full members of the active military units, defeating the ERA as an amendment, and only for the last century or so have we even permitted them a voice in politics. Things are better, but I'd suspect they'd explain theirs in a similar, but not identical, way as we do.

 

2) While decadence might exist today, why do you prioritize focusing on people being white when it comes to identifying that decadence? NOI isn't accepted generally as an actual part of Islam as a religion. They're black nationalists similar to Aryan Nations except black instead of white.

 

3) If Islam believes in moderation, why does it advocate reactionary lifestyles? "Islam" doesn't believe in anything. It doesn't have a centralized religious authority so you not only get Shiites versus Sunnis versus Alawaites versus Kurds and so on and so on. Most have serious issues with other branches' policies and interpretations.

 

 

1) I would concur with that... if it wasn't for the fact that Islamic abuse and slavery of ethnic groups is still an issue in places like Sudan, SE Asia, and Qatar and the UAE.  Women also continue to endure tremendous oppression in clothing, behavior, music, and regular social activities.

 

2) Perhaps, but I'm trying to give him the opportunity to prove otherwise instead of being cynical.

 

3) I'm just asking for scriptural references from the Quran.  He doesn't need to refer to a centralized authority if he doesn't want to.

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Rather than creating a debate on Islam and muslims on this and that I only dislike ONE thing about this.

 

As a friendly piece of advice to you: Don't advertise religion in a politics game.

If you want them to come to Islam befriend them and be the example of WHY they should accept Islam. Because if they see a good hearted person they will follow as they did Muhammad (S.A.W).

P.S. Don't be like Ibrahim (The PnW Player) or Moreau, or Abu Haddad who openly cursed those who didn't follow their ideology.

 

It is not possible for an understanding Muslim to criticize his brothers on such basis. We are all Muslims in the eyes of Allah SWT.

 

1) Go on.  Prove your point.

 

2) There is no such thing as "the predominant culture among white Americans."  It is racist, and in fact, that exact argument used to be made against plenty of other ethnic groups.

 

3) You still haven't shown how Islamic scripture advocates moderate lifestyles.

 

1. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam

 

It is good to be willing to learn from a teacher. At times, that teacher must be oneself. A student must do their homework.

 

2. The ideal type of a group of persons is simply the most common opinion among them. If you take the most common opinions among white Americans, you get White America as I speak of it. Why is it that you are so quick to dismiss me as a racist?

 

3. You haven't yet defined for me what "moderate" is supposed to mean.

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Nation of Islam is one of fighting for the rights of all people - particularly those who are disenfranchised in America, such as African-Americans, Muslims, and women.

 

The problem with Islam is that its terrible, as someone who logically came to the conclusion religion is nonsense of all the religions Islam is the one that attracts the dumbest illogical people. A lot of really disgusting humans as well who rape/kill people they don't agree with over nothing, kill their own family for "honor".

Nothing worse for minorities than having Muslims as a majority, this sort of BS doesn't work on the internet. People have to have their asses up their heads to believe this sort of nonsense and the nonsense in wake of the terrorist attacks, all of the attacks. 

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It is not possible for an understanding Muslim to criticize his brothers on such basis. We are all Muslims in the eyes of Allah SWT.

But Allah SWT has mentioned there are weak believers, and the FIRST nation that will go to attack Imam Mahidi will be an Army from Syria carrying a banner for Islam.

And then another army of Muslims from Persia (Modern Day Iran).

 

Granted we all came from Allah SWT and one day we shall all return, but until that day there will be people who will wear the Islamic costume and disobeu Allah SWT at everyturn. (ISIS).

 

Muslims aren't perfect, if we were Allah SWT would have created another race who would make mistakes just to have them repetent to Allah. But the point I'm trying to convey is be the example of a Muslim people can look at and know this is a true follower of the religion. Never defend Muslims who kill unjustly or rape or do harm, for those Muslims who do, go against the teachings of Islam.

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I don't defend "white America" because I know there's no such thing, especially since in real life, I'm a third degree Knight of Columbus who realizes how different white people are different.  For example, there was never any Italian, Irish, or Polish Empire that engaged in slavery, yet these are all white people.  When these people immigrated to America and upheld their Catholic beliefs, they believed in universal grace which means treating everyone with respect.  

 

These whites were discriminated against upon their arrival because of being Catholics in contrast to the Protestant Work Ethic that pervaded Americana ever since its foundation.  That belief system, by the way, is what upheld slavery in claiming that African civilization obviously hadn't performed sufficient good works to prove it was chosen by God to be elected for salvation in representing a predestined calling, a system that was practiced by the Royal African Company of Britain as well as the Dutch West Indies Company.  In fact, these Protestants implictly allied with Muslims in the Ottoman Empire during the Reformation, throughout the 30 Years' War, and against the Hapsburg Empire.

 

If you want to have a serious debate, then seriously understand why things happen.  Don't jump to conclusions by judging people according to what they are before who they are.

 

While in general I agree with your statement that "white" America isn't some massive race-based voting block that plows people of color, I do have a massive bone to pick with discrimination of Eastern Europeans/Catholics and how that has been used as evidence of America's periodic dislike of immigrants not having a race component to it. 

 

But that's off topic. 

 

 

We all live in a post God-is-dead world, why can't we all just be absurdists and leave theology to history buffs and corpses? Also, terrorism isn't new. Fast, cheap commercial travel is. 

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While in general I agree with your statement that "white" America isn't some massive race-based voting block that plows people of color, I do have a massive bone to pick with discrimination of Eastern Europeans/Catholics and how that has been used as evidence of America's periodic dislike of immigrants not having a race component to it. 

 

But that's off topic. 

 

 

We all live in a post God-is-dead world, why can't we all just be absurdists and leave theology to history buffs and corpses? Also, terrorism isn't new. Fast, cheap commercial travel is. 

Idk about the eastern european part, but about the catholic part:

catholics make up 22% of the US population and are the biggest denomination in the US.

U probably meant christian orthodox people, that would go better with the eastern european discrimination u mentioned

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The problem with Islam is that its terrible (Nation of Islam is not, strictly speaking, Islamic), as someone who logically came to the conclusion religion is nonsense of all the religions Islam is the one that attracts the dumbest illogical people. A lot of really disgusting humans as well who rape/kill people they don't agree with over nothing, kill their own family for "honor".(honor killings are more of a cultural thing and are a minority compared to Muslims worldwide. The other violence Christians would be doing if we took the Bible 600 total commandments as seriously as they do.

 

 

But Allah SWT has mentioned there are weak believers, and the FIRST nation that will go to attack Imam Mahidi will be an Army from Syria carrying a banner for Islam.

And then another army of Muslims from Persia (Modern Day Iran).

 

Granted we all came from Allah SWT and one day we shall all return, but until that day there will be people who will wear the Islamic costume and disobeu Allah SWT at everyturn. (ISIS).

 

Muslims aren't perfect, if we were Allah SWT would have created another race who would make mistakes just to have them repetent to Allah. But the point I'm trying to convey is be the example of a Muslim people can look at and know this is a true follower of the religion. Never defend Muslims who kill unjustly or rape or do harm, for those Muslims who do, go against the teachings of Islam. Thank you! Jesus Christ, the number of people who use collective punishment on the world's 1,200,000,000 Muslims never admit that it's only a very, very small minority that actually does anything like that and funding Saudi Arabia is just exporting their extremist Wahhabism more worldwide.

 

 

Idk about the eastern european part, but about the catholic part:

catholics make up 22% of the US population and are the biggest denomination in the US. They're the biggest Christian denomination in the world and have nearly 1,000,000,000 believers worldwide.

U probably meant christian orthodox people, that would go better with the eastern european discrimination u mentioned

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But Allah SWT has mentioned there are weak believers, and the FIRST nation that will go to attack Imam Mahidi will be an Army from Syria carrying a banner for Islam.

And then another army of Muslims from Persia (Modern Day Iran).

 

Granted we all came from Allah SWT and one day we shall all return, but until that day there will be people who will wear the Islamic costume and disobeu Allah SWT at everyturn. (ISIS).

 

Muslims aren't perfect, if we were Allah SWT would have created another race who would make mistakes just to have them repetent to Allah. But the point I'm trying to convey is be the example of a Muslim people can look at and know this is a true follower of the religion. Never defend Muslims who kill unjustly or rape or do harm, for those Muslims who do, go against the teachings of Islam.

The fundamental problem with this is that Muhammad unjustly killed and raped people, it is a religion of contradictions. ISIS and Muhammad are one and the same. ISIS are no doubt better followers of Islam than anyone else. 

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The fundamental problem with this is that Muhammad unjustly killed and raped people, it is a religion of contradictions. ISIS and Muhammad are one and the same. ISIS are no doubt better followers of Islam than anyone else. 

I'll talk with Thalmor

I'll talk with the Templar Alliance Chrisitans

But I'd much rather have you provide a proper argument rather than outright insult.

Hell, I prefer Roz over you, at least he is witty when he say's something.

 

ISIS are the DOGS OF HELL, killing them and you will be rewarded and if you are killed by them you will be rewarded.

The MUSLIMS will attack the IMAM MAHIDI from SYRIA with BLACK FLAGS. ISIS will be the enemy of Islam, enemy of the whole world.

Even the Christians who believe in the coming of Jese believe this and they CERTAILY hate ISIS.

Edited by Lelouch Vi Britannia

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