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what would they be leading?

 

I'm not sure that's the right question.

 

The right question is, "What does communism do to prevent leadership from coming about from the spontaneity of human nature?"

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China was barely united, the only reason we got the second United Front before the Japanese Onslaught was due to Xi'an incident in which a general arrested Chiang Kai-Shek who had refused to work with the communists or even confront the Japanese and forced him to sign a treaty with the communists. The rest of the warlords joined the war later but there was still a large amount of distrust and sabotage look at the New Fourth incident as a key example of this. As soon as the Secon Sino-Japanese War ended the CCP and the Nationalists with a few warlord states went straight back to fighting. Peace in China wasn't achieved until 1949 as you know but the nation was far from united. 

 

As for the Cultural Revolution that was a power play made by Mao nothing more nothing less. He hated how Liu Shaoqi was repairing and running the nation after the disastrous Great Leap Forward so in his response he indoctrinated a bunch of students told them to attack anyone or anything he deemed "reactionary" put the whole nation on hold while he was slowly claiming power. When he was done with his Red Guards he sent 17 million students to die in the northern countryside having no more use for their loyalty. There was no point to the Cultural Revolution other than that power hungry monster to steal back absolute control of the PRC.

 

On your final point, I would argue that it took over 20 years to achieve Mao's communist state due to ideological conflict between the KMT and the CCP

 

The fact of the matter is the communists defeated the nationalists, and the Japanese invasion was nothing like the spheres of influence which colonized China during the Qing Dynasty.  The nationalists could have squashed the communists plenty of times, but they never seized the opportunity to do so.  Ultimately, the battle was a direct transition in the peasantry versus the warlords that did not take place through a capitalist medium, something which could especially be seen from how the rise of Maoism stemmed from the rural areas of China towards the urban areas instead of the other way around.

 

What you say about the Cultural Revolution is accurate, but it proves how communism fails because it defaults to power-grabbing behavior.  Confucius understood that a stable society requires harmonious discipline which communism doesn't appreciate.  When the communists disrupted his framework, the country fell into calamity.

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The fact of the matter is the communists defeated the nationalists, and the Japanese invasion was nothing like the spheres of influence which colonized China during the Qing Dynasty.  The nationalists could have squashed the communists plenty of times, but they never seized the opportunity to do so.  Ultimately, the battle was a direct transition in the peasantry versus the warlords that did not take place through a capitalist medium, something which could especially be seen from how the rise of Maoism stemmed from the rural areas of China towards the urban areas instead of the other way around.

 

What you say about the Cultural Revolution is accurate, but it proves how communism fails because it defaults to power-grabbing behavior.  Confucius understood that a stable society requires harmonious discipline which communism doesn't appreciate.  When the communists disrupted his framework, the country fell into calamity.

The KMT did nearly wipe out the CCP a few times first at Shanghai in 1927 than at Jiangxi in 1934. Credit where it is due if it weren't for the resourcefulness of the CCP and Mao they would be long dead. Yeah, I guess that is a fair assessment that the nation as a whole went through an instant transition although it wasn't as radical initially as one might think, it did get progressively more hostile towards capitalist as Mao lost his mind. 

 

I see it as a problem with all attempts at communism; the people put to much power into a person/party which in turn loses sight of what it sought to achieve in the first place. I don't quite understand what you mean by mentioning Confucious either. I mean Chinese Society as a whole was undergoing a massive change after the 1911 Xinhai Revolution there wasn't much focus on religious thought but more individual power e.g. Warlords and Chiang Kai-Shek's incompetent rule over the National Republic. 

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Venezuela's bankrupt.Plain and simple.There's really no sugarcoating or going around it.

European countries aren't socialist.They have adapted little small bits of it but with the exception of France (mixed economy) they're capitalist since there's still a large bourgeoisie with large amount of influence.Hardcore socialist economies tend to lag massively behind capitalist economies as we've seen over the past few decades.

 

Interesting opinion, though quite a high level of inaccuracies if not outright lies. Socialism even works better in the US in the places we have it than capitalism. Medicare operates at 50% less than the administrative costs of private sector providers and the only thing preventing it from being even more competitive is the private sector can negotiate massive discounts and Medicare is not permitted to do so in order to keep the private sector preserved.

 

 

I'm not sure that's the right question.

 

The right question is, "What does communism do to prevent leadership from coming about from the spontaneity of human nature?"

 

Nothing as far as I know. It's just supposed to happen.

 

 

The fact of the matter is the communists defeated the nationalists, and the Japanese invasion was nothing like the spheres of influence which colonized China during the Qing Dynasty.  The nationalists could have squashed the communists plenty of times, but they never seized the opportunity to do so.  Ultimately, the battle was a direct transition in the peasantry versus the warlords that did not take place through a capitalist medium, something which could especially be seen from how the rise of Maoism stemmed from the rural areas of China towards the urban areas instead of the other way around.

 

What you say about the Cultural Revolution is accurate, but it proves how communism fails because it defaults to power-grabbing behavior.  Confucius understood that a stable society requires harmonious discipline which communism doesn't appreciate.  When the communists disrupted his framework, the country fell into calamity. Communism hasn't been practiced yet so it can't have failed.

 

 

The KMT did nearly wipe out the CCP a few times first at Shanghai in 1927 than at Jiangxi in 1934. Credit where it is due if it weren't for the resourcefulness of the CCP and Mao they would be long dead. Yeah, I guess that is a fair assessment that the nation as a whole went through an instant transition although it wasn't as radical initially as one might think, it did get progressively more hostile towards capitalist as Mao lost his mind. 

 

I see it as a problem with all attempts at communism; the people put to much power into a person/party which in turn loses sight of what it sought to achieve in the first place. I don't quite understand what you mean by mentioning Confucious either. I mean Chinese Society as a whole was undergoing a massive change after the 1911 Xinhai Revolution there wasn't much focus on religious thought but more individual power e.g. Warlords and Chiang Kai-Shek's incompetent rule over the National Republic. 

 

Taiwan's doing quite well, actually.

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"gommunizm iz gud en sheeit"

 

No, actually,all my points there are accurate and not even lies

 

*Venezuela is completely bankrupt.

 

*Europe isn't socialist,it's adopted some socialist like reforms, but it's far from being socialist.

Socialism/=/Social Democracy

 

*We've already seen how nominally socialist economies absolutely failed compared to Western capitalist ones.

 

It's really cute how you think dissmissing facts as lies while not even showing why they're lies gives you automatic victory.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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The KMT did nearly wipe out the CCP a few times first at Shanghai in 1927 than at Jiangxi in 1934. Credit where it is due if it weren't for the resourcefulness of the CCP and Mao they would be long dead. Yeah, I guess that is a fair assessment that the nation as a whole went through an instant transition although it wasn't as radical initially as one might think, it did get progressively more hostile towards capitalist as Mao lost his mind. 

 

I see it as a problem with all attempts at communism; the people put to much power into a person/party which in turn loses sight of what it sought to achieve in the first place. I don't quite understand what you mean by mentioning Confucious either. I mean Chinese Society as a whole was undergoing a massive change after the 1911 Xinhai Revolution there wasn't much focus on religious thought but more individual power e.g. Warlords and Chiang Kai-Shek's incompetent rule over the National Republic. 

 

It's standard protocol to recognize how communism opposed Confucianism during the Cultural Revolution:

 

https://www.marxists.org/subject/china/peking-review/1974/PR1974-06f.htm

 

https://neoconfucian.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/567-ay1213-0412-sp11.pdf

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticize_Lin,_Criticize_Confucius

 

The Xinhai Revolution was an important stage in Chinese history, but it was more about modernizing and reforming the government while finalizing the ousting of foreign imperial influence.  If anything, you could say the government became corrupt from abandoning Confucian ideals, so it was begging for a revolution to happen.  The unification of the country later on could be interpreted as a partial reclamation of Confucian ideals, but its refusal to follow those ideals to their entirety broke the country again.  The fact is China had an abundance of history where Confucian ideals were put to good use which proved their effectiveness in practicing harmonious discipline while upholding meritocratic civil service, so this isn't historical cherry-picking either.

Edited by Argotitan
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"gommunizm iz gud en sheeit" No idea if it's good or not. We'll have to see what happens if/when someone tries it.

 

No, actually,all my points there are accurate and not even lies

 

*Venezuela is completely bankrupt. Economic issues, not bankruptcy.

 

*Europe isn't socialist,it's adopted some socialist like reforms, but it's far from being socialist.

Socialism/=/Social Democracy Correct, but socialist programs in great number existing, to me, makes it more socialist than capitalist.

 

*We've already seen how nominally socialist economies absolutely failed compared to Western capitalist ones.By not?

 

It's really cute how you think dissmissing facts as lies while not even showing why they're lies gives you automatic victory. Be accurate and I wouldn't need to correct you.

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UAE is not simply oil-based, they understand at some point the oil isn't going to be there so have been doing a lot to build infrastructure and be a destination city for tourists and commerce.

Venezuela has had enough time to diversity. Oh well, people will likely die from starvation. 

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"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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Venezuela has had enough time to diversity. Oh well, people will likely die from starvation. Yeah, here too with Trump removing the welfare, food stamp programs and other assistance needed by the poor will likely result in a significant number of deaths, especially, ironically, mostly among those who voted against their own interests to get Trump into office. Pretty sad to realize the person you elected doesn't care enough to avoid letting you die in favor of more tax cuts to the wealthy.

 

 

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Venezuela isn't bankrupt?LOL

Woah, woah, wait, what? Now just hold on a minute. While I disagree with Comrade Milton on many issues, that is a blatant strawman. He would never say somethi-

Economic issues, not bankruptcy.

 

In all fairness, Venezuela has a relatively moderate amount of debt. Saying they're on the brink of bankruptcy is an exaggeration. However, "economic issues" sounds like a minor recession. The US had "economic issues" in 2007/2008. Venezuela makes America in 07/08 look like a utopian society. Absolutely the greatest utopian society, let me tell you. (Posting with color so it is easy to read. I hit the quote limit.)

 


"Deodorant prices shot up 93% in March from February; detergent 62%; shaving razors 53%; toilet paper 27%."

Is the MiniPlenty having some problems?

 

"'If you need to have an operation, nowadays, you must bring your own medicines to the hospital,' adds Morin, the housewife. 'There are no supplies to attend the most basic emergencies.'"

Enjoy your free* healthcare. :^)

 

"But with oil now hovering around $50 a barrel, Maduro's administration can't afford to import enough food and also pay down its debts to foreign creditors. For now, it's prioritized debt payments over shipping in food."

What a great situation they have in Venezuela. Absolutely terrific. They have an excellent, absolutely the best, government leaders following through with the will of the people. They're such a shining example showing how wonderful their system allows them to attend to all basic payments they need to make. Such a magnificent beacon of hope for the uncivilized capitalists

 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/24/venezuela-is-sliding-into-anarchy/?utm_term=.67d15151be2e

"In one of Caracas's main plazas on Saturday, a lynch mob doused a young man with gasoline and set him ablaze."

Venezuela is a wonderful place this time of year. 

 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuelas-paradox-people-are-hungry-but-farmers-cant-feed-them/2017/05/21/ce460726-3987-11e7-a59b-26e0451a96fd_story.html?utm_term=.de5ec7d3854d

"Saulo Escobar holds an egg produced at his farm. His chickens are laying undersized eggs, he says, because as imported feed dwindles the only feed he can afford on the black market is less nutritious. (Mariana Zuñiga for The Washington Post)"

They can't even feed animals to produce food. 

 

"With medicines scarce and malnutrition cases soaring, more than 11,000 babies died last year, sending the infant mortality rate up 30 percent, according to Venezuela’s Health Ministry. The head of the ministry was fired by President Nicolás Maduro two days after she released those statistics."

The Ministry of Information must have not approved those figures. 

 

"Child hunger in parts of Venezuela is a 'humanitarian crisis,' according to a new report by the Catholic relief organization Caritas, which found 11.4 percent of children under age 5 suffering from moderate to severe malnutrition, and 48 percent 'at risk' of going hungry."

Is the MiniPlenty having some problems? 

 

 

"'It’s not only the nationalization of land,' said Carlos Machado, an expert on Venezuelan agriculture. 'The government has made the decision to be the producer, processor and distributor, so the entire chain of food production suffers from an inefficient agricultural bureaucracy.'"

Sounds very efficient. 

 

 

"officials have refused to allow international aid groups to deliver food,"

Like I said, they have an excellent, absolutely the best, government leaders following through with the will of the people.

 

"In a recent survey of 6,500 Venezuelan families by the country’s leading universities, three-quarters of adults said they lost weight in 2016 — an average of 19 pounds. This collective emaciation is referred to dryly here as 'the Maduro diet,' but it’s a level of hunger almost unheard-of outside war zones or areas ravaged by hurricane, drought or plague."

Nineteen pounds. Let that sink in. 

 

 

"Escobar’s hogs also are skinnier. An average full-size pig weighed 242 pounds two years ago, he said. 'Now they weigh 176.' Last year, he lost 2,000 hogs in three months when the animals got sick and he couldn’t find vaccines. The piglets born since then are undersized. Many have bloody wounds at the tips of their ears. 'When an animal has a poor diet, it looks for nourishment elsewhere,' explained Maria Arias, a veterinarian at the farm. 'So they end up chewing off the ears of other pigs.'"

Even their pigs are resorting to cannibalism because their farmers can't afford to feed them. 

Edited by WISD0MTREE
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Smh tbh.If you actually read them then you would see that theyre all saying Venezuela is broke.Literally broke.

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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Smh tbh.If you actually read them then you would see that they're all saying Venezuela is broke.Literally broke.

Broke? Yes, they're having to chose between paying their debt or buying food. Bankrupt? No, they can still pay off said debt, at the expense of their country starving to death. 

 

Yeah, here too with Trump removing the welfare, food stamp programs and other assistance needed by the poor will likely result in a significant number of deaths, especially, ironically, mostly among those who voted against their own interests to get Trump into office. Pretty sad to realize the person you elected doesn't care enough to avoid letting you die in favor of more tax cuts to the wealthy.

Removing welfare =/= nationalizing land from farmers, not importing enough food to feed their country or their farmers' animals, and arresting bakers for not baking the right baked-products. Let's look at those last two quotes. 

 

"In a recent survey of 6,500 Venezuelan families by the country’s leading universities, three-quarters of adults said they lost weight in 2016 — an average of 19 pounds. This collective emaciation is referred to dryly here as 'the Maduro diet,' but it’s a level of hunger almost unheard-of outside war zones or areas ravaged by hurricane, drought or plague."

 

"Escobar’s hogs also are skinnier. An average full-size pig weighed 242 pounds two years ago, he said. 'Now they weigh 176.' Last year, he lost 2,000 hogs in three months when the animals got sick and he couldn’t find vaccines. The piglets born since then are undersized. Many have bloody wounds at the tips of their ears. 'When an animal has a poor diet, it looks for nourishment elsewhere,' explained Maria Arias, a veterinarian at the farm. 'So they end up chewing off the ears of other pigs.'"

 

Until even pigs are starving to the point where they are practicing cannibalism, you can't compare cutting welfare to Venezuela's situation. 

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Woah, woah, wait, what? Now just hold on a minute. While I disagree with Comrade Milton on many issues, that is a blatant strawman. He would never say somethi-

 

In all f...quote limit.) I'm not sure it's a utopian society, somewhere without economic problems or anything else. It's definitely not bankrupt, though.

 


"Deodorant prices shot up 93% in March from February; detergent 62%; shaving razors 53%; toilet paper 27%."

Is the MiniPlenty having some problems? With economic problems often comes slightly higher rates of inflation, yes.

 

"'If you need to have an operation, nowadays, you must bring your own medicines to the hospital,' adds Morin, the housewife. 'There are no supplies to attend the most basic emergencies.'"

Enjoy your free* healthcare. :^) During my American surgery I also had to bring a number of my own medicines.

 

"But with oil now hovering around $50 a barrel, Maduro's administration can't afford to import enough food and also pay down its debts to foreign creditors. For now, it's prioritized debt payments over shipping in food."

What a great situation they have in Venezuela. Absolutely terrific. They have an excellent, absolutely the best, government leaders following through with the will of the people. They're such a shining example showing how wonderful their system allows them to attend to all basic payments they need to make. Such a magnificent beacon of hope for the uncivilized capitalists. Yeah, here it's mostly just the elderly that have to choose between medicine and eating. Venezuela is a good example on how not to setup a socialist system.

 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/05/24/venezuela-is-sliding-into-anarchy/?utm_term=.67d15151be2e

"In one of Caracas's main plazas on Saturday, a lynch mob doused a young man with gasoline and set him ablaze."

Venezuela is a wonderful place this time of year. 

Vigilantes Torch Home, Kill Innocent Woman - CBS News

 

 


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuelas-paradox-people-are-hungry-but-farmers-cant-feed-them/2017/05/21/ce460726-3987-11e7-a59b-26e0451a96fd_story.html?utm_term=.de5ec7d3854d

"Saulo Escobar holds an egg produced at his farm. His chickens are laying undersized eggs, he says, because as imported feed dwindles the only feed he can afford on the black market is less nutritious. (Mariana Zuñiga for The Washington Post)"

They can't even feed animals to produce food. http://247wallst.com/economy/2014/03/22/ten-states-where-people-cant-afford-food/

 

"With medicines scarce and malnutrition cases soaring, more than 11,000 babies died last year, sending the infant mortality rate up 30 percent, according to Venezuela’s Health Ministry. The head of the ministry was fired by President Nicolás Maduro two days after she released those statistics."

The Ministry of Information must have not approved those figures. Or perhaps mismanagement given it sounds like she permitted this problem to happen.

 

"Child hunger in parts of Venezuela is a 'humanitarian crisis,' according to a new report by the Catholic relief organization Caritas, which found 11.4 percent of children under age 5 suffering from moderate to severe malnutrition, and 48 percent 'at risk' of going hungry."

Is the MiniPlenty having some problems? Ours sure is http://247wallst.com/economy/2014/03/22/ten-states-where-people-cant-afford-food/

 

 

"'It’s not only the nationalization of land,' said Carlos Machado, an expert on Venezuelan agriculture. 'The government has made the decision to be the producer, processor and distributor, so the entire chain of food production suffers from an inefficient agricultural bureaucracy.'"

Sounds very efficient. Yes, it does. People really need to decide if they want bureaucracy OR a lack of government accountability. The former is present to prevent the latter.

 

"officials have refused to allow international aid groups to deliver food,"

Like I said, they have an excellent, absolutely the best, government leaders following through with the will of the people. The current leader isn't great, but we don't allow international aid groups into the United States to feed our starving people either.

 

"In a recent survey of 6,500 Venezuelan families by the country’s leading universities, three-quarters of adults said they lost weight in 2016 — an average of 19 pounds. This collective emaciation is referred to dryly here as 'the Maduro diet,' but it’s a level of hunger almost unheard-of outside war zones or areas ravaged by hurricane, drought or plague."

Nineteen pounds. Let that sink in.  http://247wallst.com/economy/2014/03/22/ten-states-where-people-cant-afford-food/

 

 

"Escobar’s hogs also are skinnier. An average full-size pig weighed 242 pounds two years ago, he said. 'Now they weigh 176.' Last year, he lost 2,000 hogs in three months when the animals got sick and he couldn’t find vaccines. The piglets born since then are undersized. Many have bloody wounds at the tips of their ears. 'When an animal has a poor diet, it looks for nourishment elsewhere,' explained Maria Arias, a veterinarian at the farm. 'So they end up chewing off the ears of other pigs.'"

Even their pigs are resorting to cannibalism because their farmers can't afford to feed them. They sound pretty bad at raising livestock. I'd blame them absent some reason not to.

 

 

Smh tbh.If you actually read them then you would see that theyre all saying Venezuela is broke.Literally broke. Did you read them? Because they didn't say that.

 

 

Broke? Yes, they're having to chose between paying their debt or buying food. Bankrupt? No, they can still pay off said debt, at the expense of their country starving to death. 

 

Removing welfare =/= nationalizing land from farmers, not importing enough food to feed their country or their farmers' animals, and arresting bakers for not baking the right baked-products. Let's look at those last two quotes. 

 

"In a recent survey of 6,500 Venezuelan families by the country’s leading universities, three-quarters of adults said they lost weight in 2016 — an average of 19 pounds. This collective emaciation is referred to dryly here as 'the Maduro diet,' but it’s a level of hunger almost unheard-of outside war zones or areas ravaged by hurricane, drought or plague."

 

"Escobar’s hogs also are skinnier. An average full-size pig weighed 242 pounds two years ago, he said. 'Now they weigh 176.' Last year, he lost 2,000 hogs in three months when the animals got sick and he couldn’t find vaccines. The piglets born since then are undersized. Many have bloody wounds at the tips of their ears. 'When an animal has a poor diet, it looks for nourishment elsewhere,' explained Maria Arias, a veterinarian at the farm. 'So they end up chewing off the ears of other pigs.'"

 

Until even pigs are starving to the point where they are practicing cannibalism, you can't compare cutting welfare to Venezuela's situation. With current welfare and food assistance levels (including in part subsidized and/or free heating oil sales from the Venezuelan government to poor American families in the very recent past, we already have deaths from heat stroke, hypothermia, frost bite complications, malnutrition, diabetes, food deserts and so on. The fact that it's not apparently worthy of being granted a very big presence in the news doesn't change that. Maine will probably lose a hundred people here just from temperature issues to say nothing of food or what happens when even more assistance is cut when the current levels are already failing.

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O.O

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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They're democratic and free to elect someone else if they feel like it. Most of them now shop in Colombia anyway.

>Implying Venezuela is democratic in practice

 

No amount of lols can do that justice.

 

Except they don't. Which is why we have this thing we call "The Venezuelan economical crisis",that's like me saying " Zimbabwe can elect a new leader cuz democracy and most shop in South Africa".

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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Except mine is true. Yours is not.

I never​ said Zimbabweans actually did that lol.

 

The statement that most Venezuelans shop in Columbia is just false,for plain and obvious reasons.Venezuela isn't that democratic when you look deeper.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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Say I am a 25 year old mill worker under a 'true' communist society. 

 

Now say I want to quit my job, completely, and stay at home.

 

How would my life change? Do I still get the same amount of food? Can I still take baths and waste water all day? 

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Say I am a 25 year old mill worker under a 'true' communist society. 

 

Now say I want to quit my job, completely, and stay at home.

 

How would my life change? Do I still get the same amount of food? Can I still take baths and waste water all day? 

There aren't supposed to be hard and fast divisions of labor. I think Marx expected technology to develop to such a point it's also supposed to be run by "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", so the first condition wouldn't be met. 

 

 

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs![1][3][4]

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I don't know why I'm bothering to post in this cesspool of stupid but I must say that blaming the troubles of Venezuela solely on the ideology of socialism is moronic and a gross over simplification of all the factors that come into play. Few things are that simple in politics and economics, a government's policies is rarely a pure undiluted representation of whatever ideology the ruling party serves. Venezuela isn't exactly anything resembling a beacon of socialism, and the only reason to support the current regime is that the opposition is !@#$ing disgustingly terrible and will undo the good that has been accomplished in the past. Criticism against it and its flaws does nothing to invalidate socialist or communist ideology, especially in the face of global capitalism which enslaves and exploits billions of people under the threat of violence and starvation. It's kind of funny how some people will jump on any chance to point out the errors of countries adhering to leftist ideology while they seemingly remain completely oblivious to the errors of the most widespread ideology in the world and their own position within it, where they have been relegated from being human beings with value to labor for hire. Your masters have taught you well.

 

Anyway, you people saying stupid shit is why we're going to have gulags on the moon once fully automated luxury gay space communism has been accomplished. Class traitors, the lot of you.

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I never​ said Zimbabweans actually did that lol.

 

The statement that most Venezuelans shop in Columbia is just false,for plain and obvious reasons.Venezuela isn't that democratic when you look deeper. There's footage and news about them doing it. So, maybe work on being correct, like, ever.

 

 

Say I am a 25 year old mill worker under a 'true' communist society. 

 

Now say I want to quit my job, completely, and stay at home.

 

How would my life change? Do I still get the same amount of food? Can I still take baths and waste water all day? It's not happening at the moment, possibly in the next decade or two when your job is replaced by robotics or other automation, yes, you can. UBI'll handle it.

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There's footage and news about them doing it. So, maybe work on being correct, like, ever Some of them, obviously,I never said they all shop in Venezuela.But obviously most wouldn't shop in Columbia lol.

 

That's the thing.No one here is incorrect/correct,this is an exchange of opinions and views, in reality there is no winning or losing.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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They're democratic and free to elect someone else if they feel like it.

 

Most of them now shop in Colombia anyway.

"Venezuelan opposition leaders have reacted with fury to the unveiling of President Nicolás Maduro’s timetable to redraft the country’s constitution and delay regular elections until the end of the year." (Source)

Sounds very democratic. Imagine if Trump delayed elections. 

 

"Economists disagree on Venezuela’s actual inflation rate, with their estimates ranging from 350 per cent to 2,200 per cent." (Source)

Not too much longer. Soon, their currency will be worthless. 

 

I'm not sure it's a utopian society, somewhere without economic problems or anything else. It's definitely not bankrupt, though. Yes, if you read what I said in that post, you would see that I agree that they aren't bankrupt. Just broke. 

 

During my American surgery I also had to bring a number of my own medicines. I highly doubt, you had to bring medicine for the surgery itself, as the article implied. I suspect you had to bring your medicine because you could have been there a prolonged period of time and they didn't want to possibly give you a wrong medicine. 

 

Yeah, here it's mostly just the elderly that have to choose between medicine and eating. Venezuela is a good example on how not to setup a socialist system. Exactly. But why are you still defending it so strongly? 

 

Vigilantes Torch Home, Kill Innocent Woman - CBS News Yay, your first source you used against me. However, one arson doesn't compare to Venezuela's situation. (Link)

 

Or perhaps mismanagement given it sounds like she permitted this problem to happen. The health ministry doesn't import food. It's not her fault that the government agency in charge of importing food didn't import enough. 

 

Ours sure is:  http://247wallst.com...nt-afford-food/Not being able to afford one trip to the store is not equal to losing nineteen pounds in one year because of starvation. In addition, you are comparing people not being able to afford food in a free market to people not being able to obtain food in a socialist country because the government is not operating correctly or importing enough food. I mean, if you want to use comparisons like that, then Venezuela's monthly minimum wage is roughly 45 USD (according to the unofficial exchange), where the US minimum wage is 7.25 USD per hour. An 8 hour work day in the US at minimum wage would make more than the monthly minimum wage in Venezuela. Yay, faulty analogies! :^)

 

People really need to decide if they want bureaucracy OR a lack of government accountability. The former is present to prevent the latter. Does it, though? The Department of Agriculture employed 47% more people in 1972 than 1952, despite the number of farms dropping by 45%. The IRS staffed 28% more in 1972 than in 1952, almost the same growth as the number of tax returns filed (26%). However, the number of tax returns processed per employee dropped from 1580 to 1554, despite the IRS switching to rely on machines and computers during the same period. (Source)

 

The current leader isn't great, but we don't allow international aid groups into the United States to feed our starving people either. Again, comparing apples to oranges. The people starving in the US are starving in a free market where they have the ability to purchase food (in other words, food is actually available on the shelves of markets). The starving in Venezuela are starving because their socialist government nationalized so much land and isn't importing enough food for the people. 

 

http://247wallst.com...nt-afford-food/Not being able to afford one trip to the store is not equal to losing nineteen pounds in one year because of starvation. In addition, you are comparing people not being able to afford food in a free market to people not being able to obtain food in a socialist country because the government is not operating correctly or importing enough food. I mean, if you want to use comparisons like that, then Venezuela's monthly minimum wage is roughly 45 USD (according to the unofficial exchange), where the US minimum wage is 7.25 USD per hour. An 8 hour work day in the US at minimum wage would make more than the monthly minimum wage in Venezuela. Yay, faulty analogies! :^)

 

They sound pretty bad at raising livestock. I'd blame them absent some reason not to. Let me post more of the article (in orange) to provide context. 

Escobar said he needs 400 tons of high-protein imported animal feed every three months to keep his operation running, but he’s able to get only 100 tons. So, like many others, he’s turned to the black market. But he can only afford a cheaper, less nutritious feed, meaning that his hens are smaller than they used to be — and so are their eggs.

“My quality went down, so my production went down, too,†he said.

Escobar’s hogs also are skinnier. An average full-size pig weighed 242 pounds two years ago, he said. “Now they weigh 176.†Last year, he lost 2,000 hogs in three months when the animals got sick and he couldn’t find vaccines.

The piglets born since then are undersized. Many have bloody wounds at the tips of their ears. “When an animal has a poor diet, it looks for nourishment elsewhere,†explained Maria Arias, a veterinarian at the farm. “So they end up chewing off the ears of other pigs.â€

Sounds more like a problem with the amount of food imported by the government than being a bad farmer. 

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