Jump to content

Tell me how Communism is bad


Holton
 Share

Recommended Posts

LOL, ok Milton.

 

This is Milton so hard to nail down what particular nonsense he is working on however if I had to say he believes in that whole "In the future there will be unlimited resources/stuff so everyone gets all they want", and as such there is no reason for man to allocate. Of course such things doesn't stand up to scrutiny but that is Communism in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Communism's never been attempted. As for countries opting to use some or more of socialism:

 

Taking Care of the Ill: France
If you have access to the best health care in the United States, then you have some of the best care in the world. But that comes with an extremely steep price, and not everyone has that kind of access.
In 2008, the U.S. spent 16 percent of its economic output on health-care and covered 85 percent of its citizens. It was the only OECD country other than Mexico and Turkey to cover less than 90 percent of its people. We have the 37th longest average life expectancy, and a recent study found that American “life expectancy has been stagnant for much of the country and is actually decreasing over much of the Southern portion of the United States.â€
France, which has a health-care system ranked number one in the world by the WHO, spent 11.2 percent of its economy to cover everyone.
There are a number of drivers of health-care costs, but one statistic stands out: in the European (and European-style) economies, upwards of 70 percent of the total health-care bill is picked up by the government, meaning that people are insured in large pools with lots of bargaining clout to hold down providers' costs. In the U.S., less than half of our health care is in the public sector, resulting in a patchwork system of private insurers with much higher administrative costs. When you plug what France pays per person for health care into our own government's fiscal projections, you get balanced budgets by around 2014, which then turn into surpluses after 2040.
 
What about the “economy-killing†taxes under which those crazy European socialists suffer? Well, in 2007 we paid 7.5 percent of our economic output less in taxes than the average of OECD countries, but citizens of the other wealthy countries got a lot more for their tax dollars than we did – free or very low-cost health care, college educations, better unemployment benefits, job training and the list goes on.
In the United States, we paid the equivalent of 8.2 percent of our economy more in social spending out of our own pockets than the people in other rich countries did that year. So the savings we enjoyed on our tax bills were more than offset by what we paid for those things our counterparts bought with their taxes. When private and public spending on our social welfare are added together, Americans pay just a little bit more than the other citizens of the world's leading economic powers.
 
Some examples.

GICjEwp.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Communism doesn't requieres the absence of a state.

Lol wut?It does.

 

"A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access[1][2] to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless,[3] implying the end of the exploitation of labor."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_society

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Communism fails because it only provides for the bare essential "needs" of a population. It fails in providing for the "wants" due to its own economic failings of generally failing to reward economic competion and innovation which are the foundations of successful economic societies. It's why poor people are generally the only class who ever support it led by a few idealist middle class members since everyone else in both the middle and upper classes stand to lose more than they would gain.

 

Social democracy however ( not democratic socialism however ) is a far better and efficient system of economics as shown by the various Nordic countries .

Edited by Nemesis

Untitled.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, ok Milton.

 

Milton sounds like your typical wise guy who loves to waste your time just for the fun of it to get negative attention.  He wants you to prove him wrong instead of proving himself right.

 

Whatever.

 

He doesn't even sound like a real communist at that.  Communists are concerned about the working class and labor theory of value.  This guy says that nobody succeeds through hard work...

 

...and then, he has the audacity to use the No True Scotsman fallacy.  /facepalm

Edited by Argotitan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Didnt read the thread because I like my brain cells, but heres a bit of history about some of the more successful anarchist movements and why they failed.

 

The free territory of Ukraine ran under a system called "platformism" for a short while after repelling the white army from the area from 1917 to 1921. Why did this fail? the red army took it over.

 

Basque, Catelonia and Aragon became syndicalist unions, and to be fair they did do a decent job and the standard of living had improved. However, everyone knows about the Spanish civil war and Franco got into power.

 

Then the Mexicans of Chiapas had their own revolution not so long ago, but they were quickly quelled by the Mexican government.

 

There is a common factor amongst all of these revolutions - without a state and organised structure, superior militaries of separate nations quickly move in to annex Terra Nullis, no mans land. Im very familiar with this term because im australian and this is how the english justified the colonisation of my country. Because there is no greater state, and the land is not held by a single entity, i.e, a government, it is considered the land for the first conqueror. Stateless communism, in this regard, does not allow itself any defense against an organised entity that seeks its destruction. Communism does not allow for land ownership, so all the land inside a commune is Terra Nullis. 

 

Sure, if there were an international revolution, and everyone went about their day as they did with capitalism, it would work. Any system under the right conditions would work, it is how well the system functions outside of favourable conditions that tests how credible the ideas are, and thats where we come at an issue with communism and any of its derivatives. It is free land. 

 

thats why it wouldnt work. There are a few reasons why its bad.

 

It doesnt account for those that consume more than they produce

 

it doesnt account for people who choose to stop producing because they can exploit the communal system and still consume

 

Law of scarcity (really big issue)

 

it removes the ability to specialise, which means special interests are not met, such as people with potentially curable diseases. 

 

im sure someone has already gone over inherent hierarchy/"humans are social animals" or whatever.

 

heres my biggest concern though. Marx himself said that socialism is the result of a planned economy, and capitalism is a result of a natural progression. If we took away every economic law and theory we know, our system would still represent something closer to capitalism compared to socialism. Having something that defies nature is something I am not a fan of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milton sounds like your typical wise guy who loves to waste your time just for the fun of it to get negative attention.  He wants you to prove him wrong instead of proving himself right. You're incorrect. I argue because I'm correct.

 

Whatever.

 

He doesn't even sound like a real communist at that.  Communists are concerned about the working class and labor theory of value.  This guy says that nobody succeeds through hard work... Where did I say I was a communist? People don't succeed through hard work as much as luck.

 

...and then, he has the audacity to use the No True Scotsman fallacy.  /facepalm It's not a fallacy if it's accurate. If you don't follow the rules of Marxism, you can't very well have a Marxist system.

 

 

Didnt read the thread because I like my brain cells, but heres a bit of history about some of the more successful anarchist movements and why they failed.

 

The free territory of Ukraine ran under a system called "platformism" for a short while after repelling the white army from the area from 1917 to 1921. Why did this fail? the red army took it over.

 

Basque, Catelonia and Aragon became syndicalist unions, and to be fair they did do a decent job and the standard of living had improved. However, everyone knows about the Spanish civil war and Franco got into power.

 

Then the Mexicans of Chiapas had their own revolution not so long ago, but they were quickly quelled by the Mexican government.

 

There is a common factor amongst all of these revolutions - without a state and organised structure, superior militaries of separate nations quickly move in to annex Terra Nullis, no mans land. Im very familiar with this term because im australian and this is how the english justified the colonisation of my country. Because there is no greater state, and the land is not held by a single entity, i.e, a government, it is considered the land for the first conqueror. Stateless communism, in this regard, does not allow itself any defense against an organised entity that seeks its destruction. Communism does not allow for land ownership, so all the land inside a commune is Terra Nullis. 

 

Sure, if there were an international revolution, and everyone went about their day as they did with capitalism, it would work. Any system under the right conditions would work, it is how well the system functions outside of favourable conditions that tests how credible the ideas are, and thats where we come at an issue with communism and any of its derivatives. It is free land. 

 

thats why it wouldnt work. There are a few reasons why its bad. Sorry, I think Marx was a more accomplished scholar of capitalism than you are.

 

It doesnt account for those that consume more than they produce It doesn't need to

 

it doesnt account for people who choose to stop producing because they can exploit the communal system and still consume It doesn't need to.

 

Law of scarcity (really big issue) For capitalism, sure.

 

it removes the ability to specialise, which means special interests are not met, such as people with potentially curable diseases.  No, it doesn't.

 

im sure someone has already gone over inherent hierarchy/"humans are social animals" or whatever.

 

heres my biggest concern though. Marx himself said that socialism is the result of a planned economy, and capitalism is a result of a natural progression. If we took away every economic law and theory we know, our system would still represent something closer to capitalism compared to socialism. Having something that defies nature is something I am not a fan of. Capitalism is no more a part of nature than any other economic system. Again, Marx was a much more accomplished scholar of capitalism than you (presumably; absent you being a Nobel Prize winner in Economics)

GICjEwp.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"You're incorrect. I argue because I'm correct."

 

LOL.anyone with a different opinion is somehow incorrect,typical Milton,in his world he is always correct even when he's proven wrong.

 

"People don't succeed through hard work as much as luck."

 

 

300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_st

 

 

"Sorry, I think Marx was a more accomplished scholar of capitalism than you are"

That doesn't stop someone from making a point.The shadethrowing, it's just pathetic.

 

" It doesn't need to"

 

How, exactly?

Edited by Vicente Martinez
  • Upvote 1

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Communism hasn't done anything yet. We'll probably need to actually try it before judging it.

That's a poor excuse.Not because something hasn't happened doesn't mean we can't make a wise prediction of what would happen.

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marx was so good that any country that tries his nonsense fails heavily. Marx was so good that many Communists, such as yourself, deny being so in shame.No.You have another opinion so you're an incorrect troll.Stop fake quoting me.

Edited by Vicente Martinez
  • Upvote 1

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I'm correct so no biggie if you want your opinion up against my facts,

Ummm sure Milton, that's pretty much what I you do.I can draw upon the numerous times you've been proven incorrect by facts if that's what you want.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even most Communists wouldn't agree with you on that CommunistMilton. Keep living in your fantasy land where you support that fantasy unobtainable failing pile of garbage, you're a better advertisement to people for what to not be that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"You're incorrect. I argue because I'm correct."

 

LOL.anyone with a different opinion is somehow incorrect,typical Milton,in his world he is always correct even when he's proven wrong.

 

"People don't succeed through hard work as much as luck."

 

 

300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_st

 

 

"Sorry, I think Marx was a more accomplished scholar of capitalism than you are"

That doesn't stop someone from making a point.The shadethrowing, it's just pathetic.

 

" It doesn't need to"

 

How, exactly?

 

Milton is a fine example of Poe's Law, eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a communist. Communism has yet to be tried. And I'm correct so no biggie if you want your opinion up against my facts,

 

Communism aside...

 

...are you saying people have to waste their real time, energy, and attention just to entertain the fantasies of others?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milton is a fine example of Poe's Law, eh?

Lol,I mean this is the same guy who has said we should ignore terrorism.

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm sure Milton, that's pretty much what I you do.I can draw upon the numerous times you've been proven incorrect by facts if that's what you want. Proceed. Feel free to include Roz's too

 

 

Even most Communists wouldn't agree with you on that CommunistMilton. Keep living in your fantasy land where you support that fantasy unobtainable failing pile of garbage, you're a better advertisement to people for what to not be that way. I'm not sure if you're ESL or something. I'm still not a communist.

 

 

Communism aside...

 

...are you saying people have to waste their real time, energy, and attention just to entertain the fantasies of others? No, people are free to what they like. Just avoid blatant lies.

 

 

Lol,I mean this is the same guy who has said we should ignore terrorism. And stand by it. You're basically opting to let many more die in favor of giving terrorists airtime.

GICjEwp.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milton, you didnt even try to refute my points, you just said marx is better than me.

 

I gave you a solid reason for why it will never work - a more powerful entity will always crush rebellion.

 

I don't understand how you can say "it doesn't need to account for people who do not contribute and only take". What's stopping everybody from exploiting the system? It's what happened in Jamestown and Plymouth back when the English settlers arrived to begin their expansion in the new world. No-one was entitled to the land, it belonged to the commune, and every bit of grain was stored in a storehouse and belonged to everyone. The people who got up early and worked late were entitled to the same grain as the people who didn't work at all. Marx's love for "leisure time" eventually killed the commune, and in just two years the model was scrapped.

 

This is the socialism that communists want, and it's already been tried and failed miserably

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"You're basically opting to let many more die in favor of giving terrorists airtime"

 

Lol no.You have absolutely no idea why terrorism is generally taken seriously.Do you even take into account the massive panic,fear and demoralizing effects that terrorism has on a populace?

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Milton, you didnt even try to refute my points, you just said marx is better than me. I don't see my responding to you at all unless you just did a forums name change. 

 

I gave you a solid reason for why it will never work - a more powerful entity will always crush rebellion.

 

I don't understand how you can say "it doesn't need to account for people who do not contribute and only take". What's stopping everybody from exploiting the system? It's what happened in Jamestown and Plymouth back when the English settlers arrived to begin their expansion in the new world. No-one was entitled to the land, it belonged to the commune, and every bit of grain was stored in a storehouse and belonged to everyone. The people who got up early and worked late were entitled to the same grain as the people who didn't work at all. Marx's love for "leisure time" eventually killed the commune, and in just two years the model was scrapped.

 

This is the socialism that communists want, and it's already been tried and failed miserably. The settlers can't be examples as they existed as you describe at least a century before the manifesto was even written. Socialism already works better than what we have and and worked very well in Obama's effort to drag us out of W's Great Recession. We even made money as a country in saving several industries. The more jobs that are automated, the sooner a UBI is going to have to be put in place if we wish to continue having an economy.

 

 

"You're basically opting to let many more die in favor of giving terrorists airtime"

 

Lol no.You have absolutely no idea why terrorism is generally taken seriously.Do you even take into account the massive panic,fear and demoralizing effects that terrorism has on a populace? Yes, media hype. Otherwise it's just a criminal guilty of murder or attempted murder.. And allowing another 3,000 people to die to keep that feeling of terror a special thing, not like a common crime to remove the irrational fear that's stirred up.

GICjEwp.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, people are free to what they like. Just avoid blatant lies.

 

...so you're saying people have to put up with others saying, "X might work.  You have to put up with it until you prove that it doesn't," instead of others showing why X does work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UBI? Basic income? I support that myself and if you do too then wow, good job on making that look bad.

 

There is a difference between a terrorist and a criminal. Criminals don't make hardline politics rise up and people aren't bloody idiots like you think. The media would not report on "moderates" being scum, they'd hail them as heroes, and look how many knew full well even from the start they were scum. Your talk of "just don't talk about it so no one knows" is a purely stupid and insulting idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

LOL, Milton, terrorist attacks aren't the problem, people reporting on and talking about terrorism is.

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the Guidelines of the game and community.