Kemal Ergenekon Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 iirc this would be the best upgrade from 1900->2000 with that build. Maybe there's a more efficient one but that one is probably amongst the best with the current market prices and no projects. What I mean is: -Calculate best build for 2000 -Calculate best build for 1900 -Calculate the difference -Compute break-even date -> This would imply the 2 new buildings you added are the buildings you need the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemal Ergenekon Posted October 8, 2016 Author Share Posted October 8, 2016 I'm not questioning whether you should get recycling centres once you do have pollution, but you should still take into account the cost of recycling centres which is $2500 in upkeep + opportunity cost of not having the improvement slot for something else. Another comparison - this time I updated the resource prices using average transaction price. Based off that, assuming you have all the projects, the most profitable ones will be steel, then gas, then munitions. So if you have 3 steel mills, 3 oil refineries, and 2 munitions factories, that's 140 pollution requiring 2 recycling centres. Those 10 improvements will boost your income by $7,703 per slot for 1700 infra and 2000 land. Compare to going raw, if you're in Australia like me, the best ones are bauxite, then lead. Food is ahead of coal, even without the project and with only 2000 land. If you have 3 bauxite mines, 5 lead mines, 8 farms and 2 coal mines, that generates 68 pollution requiring 1 recycling centre. Those 19 improvements will boost your income by $7,721 per slot. And again, that's without any projects and only 2000 land per city, and in a continent that doesn't have uranium vs 3 projects. Once my nation's infra is more rebuilt, I'm definitely considering moving to Africa and going for the uranium-bauxite-food build. I mean, the absolutely correct answer is to use my spreadsheet and find the "combination" of buildings that results in the best numbers. But in actuality, there are simpler rules of thumb that deliver the same buildings. That is why I mentioned a rule of thumb for pollution in my guide, given all the particular functional forms and average prices in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Depends. I fight a lot in wars, and usually against big nations that typically have nukes. This war I took 19 nukes in my 17 cities, last war was 11 nukes in 15 cities, previous war was 13 nukes in 13 cities. Plus a few missiles getting past my iron dome and a few nations naval striking me with 200+ ships a few times before I bomb their navy and each of the last 3 wars I had all of my cities ground down to 1000 infra or less. So for my playing style, I assume that I'll lose all my infra every 3 months or so, so going over 2000 infra/city definitely doesn't make sense. The optimum level is around 1700-1900 infra depending how fast I can rebuild. I feel confident enough to get up to 3k infra knowing that i can rebuild up to that amount after a war while fighting nations with nukes and the ability to crush my military, it is probably due to paracovs sphere or now in this case paracovs coalition incompetence to coordinate a proper war and inability follow through on their blitz that has given me confidence to go this high in infra knowing i can replace it with relative ease. Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrix Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 (edited) I feel confident enough to get up to 3k infra knowing that i can rebuild up to that amount after a war while fighting nations with nukes and the ability to crush my military, it is probably due to paracovs sphere or now in this case paracovs coalition incompetence to coordinate a proper war and inability follow through on their blitz that has given me confidence to go this high in infra knowing i can replace it with relative ease. You tried to insult Paracov but only embarrassed yourself, honestly. You lost almost 400m worth of infra last war, and you also had a net loss of damage. Looks like farms aren't only limited to Paracov Edited October 8, 2016 by Beatrix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Not sure how i am a farm when i fight in wars instead of building for the sole purpose of being a cash cow. Plus i dont care if my monetary damage caused and recieved is positive or negative, i dont care about the numbers game, im just here to play the game. Plus i simply stated that i am able to rebuild at a reasonable rate. Plus im not sure how i embarrassed my self when i mentioned paracov in a military manner. I fight wars and coord with alliance mates and allies and if i dish out more monatery damage then recieved then thats great, if i recieve more monatery damage then i cause then my opponents were able to effectively beat me down and coord better which has happened before. Now tell me how i am a farm when i also engage in military combat? Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrix Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 You embarrased yourself because you asserted that the other side can't fight when you have taken a net loss in damage. You didn't do more monetary damage. You also said they're incompetent, which is embarassing because your city builds show actual incompetence.(And you "don't care about the 'numbers game', lol) Finally, you are a farm(not a whale) because just like a farm you got mowed down from a ridiculous amount of infra that you grew. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Well the only reason why my monetary damage recieved compard to dealt is because they ended up lobbing nukes after they lost their wars, so yes when they lose their military and solely rely on nukes and fail their blitz and cant coord then that is incompetence where as i have maintained a military and coordinated with allies to zero an enemies military and from their infra bomb them. And guess what when an opponent resorts to lobbying nukes then they will almost always cause more damage to their opponents compared to recieving damaging due to how much damage a nuke does, but if they didnt resort to nukes then my monatery damage dealt compared to recieved would be much different. Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrix Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 No, the reason your monetary damage was higher is because you have a ridiculously high amount of infra. Lobbying nukes doesn't do "more damage" because if you claimed to have had millitary superiority the damage you would do from airstrikes would be higher. Infact, you destroyed almost twice the amount of infra they destroyed with their "more-damaging" nukes. So no - nukes don't do more damage, you didn't receive more damage because of them, you received more damage because you've played the game wrong. It's all great that you had a better millitary performance but that's not the only aspect of this game. I'm not sure why you're even arguing this, you're throwing away money while receiving more damage than you give out and bragging about how incompetent your opponents are compared to you & your allies. You're not setting up a good example of competence. I'm not going to continue trying to explain to you why building 3k infra is a terrible idea, and why using it as an insult to the other party is mostly insulting to you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woot Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Net damage doesn't matter, only the time it takes to pay off and the time it takes to get blown up. If I buy a huge stack of infra and it somehow manages to survive for a year, and then I fight another guy who sat at 1000 infra the whole time, he'll do more damage in the war, but I'll still be richer. I've never gone two months without getting my infra annihilated though, the highest I ever built to was 1600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrix Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Net damage doesn't matter, only the time it takes to pay off and the time it takes to get blown up. If I buy a huge stack of infra and it somehow manages to survive for a year, and then I fight another guy who sat at 1000 infra the whole time, he'll do more damage in the war, but I'll still be richer. I've never gone two months without getting my infra annihilated though, the highest I ever built to was 1600. True. Though, if you're willing to buy 3000 infra in multiple cities instead of buying your 14th city that is also a bad investment and, like I've said - you're a farm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Alright, i looked back at my wars and saw that i did destroy more infra then what i lost, but the amount of money that i lost in monatery damage and the amount of monatery damage that i caused doesnt matter to me. As long as i can replace it and progress from there is what i will do with my nation, with my money. And im sorry that the way i built my nation makes me incompetent yet on the other hand i will build my nation the way i see fit not the way someone else thinks is the right way. And by the way the amount of infra that was destroyed in my nation from this war was 1957.42 through conventional warfare which was spread across my nation which was cheap for my size, the remaining 7375.00 infra that was destroyed was from nukes, if those nukes werent launched then my monatery damaged caused compared to recieve would actually be positive instead of negative but once again it is negative because of the nukes that launched at my nation during the war, and these damages caused by nukes are separate from the nuke damages caused to me by johnx who rent rogue and formed mosquitoes. And it is also nice to know that the way i built my nation is a way in which you dont like therefore making me incompetent and means that i am playing the game wrong, also i have destroyed 20090.54 infra this war. There for my monetary damage dealt and monetary damage recieved would of actually been positive had those nukes not been lobbed at my nation. And that is not including the rogue johnx who launched a nuke and destroyed 1872.00 infra and had 1574.25 infra destroyed by me. Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Alright, i looked back at my wars and saw that i did destroy more infra then what i lost, but the amount of money that i lost in monatery damage and the amount of monatery damage that i caused doesnt matter to me. As long as i can replace it and progress from there is what i will do with my nation, with my money. And im sorry that the way i built my nation makes me incompetent yet on the other hand i will build my nation the way i see fit not the way someone else thinks is the right way. And by the way the amount of infra that was destroyed in my nation from this war was 1957.42 through conventional warfare which was spread across my nation which was cheap for my size, the remaining 7375.00 infra that was destroyed was from nukes, if those nukes werent launched then my monatery damaged caused compared to recieve would actually be positive instead of negative but once again it is negative because of the nukes that launched at my nation during the war, and these damages caused by nukes are separate from the nuke damages caused to me by johnx who rent rogue and formed mosquitoes. And it is also nice to know that the way i built my nation is a way in which you dont like therefore making me incompetent and means that i am playing the game wrong, also i have destroyed 20090.54 infra this war. There for my monetary damage dealt and monetary damage recieved would of actually been positive had those nukes not been lobbed at my nation. And that is not including the rogue johnx who launched a nuke and destroyed 1872.00 infra and had 1574.25 infra destroyed by me. It's kind of a shame you destroyed more infra and still had a negative monetary effect on the war - if only you'd listen to our guide lines and not go to ridiculous infra levels (maybe you'd have a couple more cities by this point as well ) You also got lucky this war by taking very few nukes compared to the rest of TKR's top tier - those numbers would've been even more skewed towards the negative had you been in more wars/taken more nukes. Quote I will take responsibility for what I have done, if I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alataq Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Alright, i looked back at my wars and saw that i did destroy more infra then what i lost, but the amount of money that i lost in monatery damage and the amount of monatery damage that i caused doesnt matter to me. As long as i can replace it and progress from there is what i will do with my nation, with my money. And im sorry that the way i built my nation makes me incompetent yet on the other hand i will build my nation the way i see fit not the way someone else thinks is the right way. And by the way the amount of infra that was destroyed in my nation from this war was 1957.42 through conventional warfare which was spread across my nation which was cheap for my size, the remaining 7375.00 infra that was destroyed was from nukes, if those nukes werent launched then my monatery damaged caused compared to recieve would actually be positive instead of negative but once again it is negative because of the nukes that launched at my nation during the war, and these damages caused by nukes are separate from the nuke damages caused to me by johnx who rent rogue and formed mosquitoes. And it is also nice to know that the way i built my nation is a way in which you dont like therefore making me incompetent and means that i am playing the game wrong, also i have destroyed 20090.54 infra this war. There for my monetary damage dealt and monetary damage recieved would of actually been positive had those nukes not been lobbed at my nation. And that is not including the rogue johnx who launched a nuke and destroyed 1872.00 infra and had 1574.25 infra destroyed by me. Lel at least you can build 7 projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Lel at least you can build 7 projects. Lel at least his alliance isn't complete shit 3 Quote I will take responsibility for what I have done, if I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 It's kind of a shame you destroyed more infra and still had a negative monetary effect on the war - if only you'd listen to our guide lines and not go to ridiculous infra levels (maybe you'd have a couple more cities by this point as well ) You also got lucky this war by taking very few nukes compared to the rest of TKR's top tier - those numbers would've been even more skewed towards the negative had you been in more wars/taken more nukes. it is sad that i destroyed more infra but still ended with a negative monatery damage dealt and recieved. and yes i could of lost a lot more infra but the nations that i was fighting that had nukes hit other targets with nukes that had less infra then me. i dont think that makes me lucky, more like it shows how incompetent the other side was for only hitting me with five nukes when they could of launched even more, but settled with five and then opted to hit everyone else they were fighting with nukes who had less infra then me. Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alataq Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Lel at least his alliance isn't complete shit Apparently his alliance's leader gets mad too easily though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalinar Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Apparently his alliance's leader gets mad too easily though. I'm not mad, just stating facts 4 Quote I will take responsibility for what I have done, if I must fall, I will rise each time a better man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alataq Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I'm not mad, just stating facts So was I. He can create 7 projects. That's pretty good. Don't take it as an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 it is sad that i destroyed more infra but still ended with a negative monatery damage dealt and recieved. and yes i could of lost a lot more infra but the nations that i was fighting that had nukes hit other targets with nukes that had less infra then me. i dont think that makes me lucky, more like it shows how incompetent the other side was for only hitting me with five nukes when they could of launched even more, but settled with five and then opted to hit everyone else they were fighting with nukes who had less infra then me. Your back peddling is amazing. You should give the Tour de France a shot, you'll probably do well there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Specter Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) Your back peddling is amazing. You should give the Tour de France a shot, you'll probably do well there. i backed peddled? my bad i looked at your pip and thought you were in nk Edited October 9, 2016 by Dark Specter Quote Amidst the eternal waves of time From a ripple of change shall the storm rise Out of the abyss peer the eyes of a demon Behold the razgriz, its wings of black sheath The demon soars through dark skies Fear and death trail its shadow beneath Until men united weild a hallowed sabre In final reckoning, the beast is slain As the demon sleeps, man turns on man His own blood and madness soon cover the earth From the depths of despair awaken the razgriz Its raven wings ablaze in majestic light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beatrix Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) This is hurting my brain. Listen, if you had built <2k infra you would have a) More money More cities c) More damage done d) Less damage taken and a net positive. And we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact you're willing to ignore the evidence and just say "well this is my money I'll do what I want" is stupid. Arguing about it is stupid. The damage you took is not because of nukes - it's because you buy infra that never pays for itself and it gets lost into oblivion. Edited October 9, 2016 by Beatrix 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiki Mod Dr Rush Posted October 9, 2016 Wiki Mod Share Posted October 9, 2016 it is sad that i destroyed more infra but still ended with a negative monatery damage dealt and recieved. and yes i could of lost a lot more infra but the nations that i was fighting that had nukes hit other targets with nukes that had less infra then me. i dont think that makes me lucky, more like it shows how incompetent the other side was for only hitting me with five nukes when they could of launched even more, but settled with five and then opted to hit everyone else they were fighting with nukes who had less infra then me. So umm could you not call the other side incompetent while being retarded about your infra that would be grand. Makes our side look like idiots. K, thanks. 2 Quote 23:38 Skable that's why we don't want Rose involved, so we can take the m all for ourselves 23:39 [] but Mensa is the cute girl at the school dance and she's only dancing with us right now to get our friend jealous 23:39 [] If Rose comes in and gives Mensa what she wants, she'll just toss us aside and forget we ever existed 23:39 zombie_lanae yeah I do hope we can keep having them all to ourselves 23:40 zombie_lanae I know it's selfish but I want all their love 6:55 PM <+Isolatar> Praise Dio Pubstomper|BNC [20:01:55] Rose wouldn't plan a hit on Mensa because it would be !@#$ing stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 i backed peddled? my bad i looked at your pip and thought you were in nk What does my alliance have to do with your foolishness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Hyde Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Gr8 guide, tho a bit of a waste, seeing how egotistical many are. Guide on how King Crimson works when? Quote :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 (edited) No, the reason your monetary damage was higher is because you have a ridiculously high amount of infra. Lobbying nukes doesn't do "more damage" because if you claimed to have had millitary superiority the damage you would do from airstrikes would be higher. Infact, you destroyed almost twice the amount of infra they destroyed with their "more-damaging" nukes. So no - nukes don't do more damage, you didn't receive more damage because of them, you received more damage because you've played the game wrong. It's all great that you had a better millitary performance but that's not the only aspect of this game. I'm not sure why you're even arguing this, you're throwing away money while receiving more damage than you give out and bragging about how incompetent your opponents are compared to you & your allies. You're not setting up a good example of competence. I'm not going to continue trying to explain to you why building 3k infra is a terrible idea, and why using it as an insult to the other party is mostly insulting to you. This is hurting my brain. Listen, if you had built <2k infra you would have a) More money More cities c) More damage done d) Less damage taken and a net positive. And we wouldn't be having this discussion. The fact you're willing to ignore the evidence and just say "well this is my money I'll do what I want" is stupid. Arguing about it is stupid. The damage you took is not because of nukes - it's because you buy infra that never pays for itself and it gets lost into oblivion. Lest anyone think that Dark Specter's position represent TKR, a bunch of us have tried to explain this to him probably half a dozen times and he doesn't want to listen. He's a good guy to have around but he completely does his own thing when it comes to nation building. Edited October 9, 2016 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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