Should Great Britain leave the EU?

[Ivan the Red]

The EU has brought peace a stability to Europe. I really hope it doesn't fall apart if the UK leaves. It could mean another world war.

 

Remember after WW1 they said never again. Then WW2 happened.

Yeah I watch at the average european youngster and instead of an hedonistic drunk high on MJ and glued to his smartphone I see a redneck halfwit with nothing to lose craving to be sent to the trenches to die in droves in defense of the traditions of his King and Country and the Purity of his Aryan Blood.

 

You know, you need soldiers to start a war. Europe used to have the best coldblooded natural born killers in the world. But that was like two or three generations ago. The Welfare State killed it all for good. If the chinese invade us, all we will say is "great, lower tariffs at alibaba.com".

 

The German Sepherd is now a German Pom. Still likes to bark a lot but can't bite anymore.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Big Brother]

Yeah I watch at the average european youngster and instead of an hedonistic drunk high on MJ and glued to his smartphone I see a redneck halfwit with nothing to lose craving to be sent to the trenches to die in droves in defense of the traditions of his King and Country and the Purity of his Aryan Blood.

 

You know, you need soldiers to start a war. Europe used to have the best coldblooded natural born killers in the world. But that was like two or three generations ago. The Welfare State killed it all for good. If the chinese invade us, all we will say is "great, lower tariffs at alibaba.com".

 

The German Sepherd is now a German Pom. Still likes to bark a lot but can't bite anymore.

 

You underestimate the capability of Western nations to quickly turn their productive forces towards waging war. Europe has the resources, the technology, manpower and other logistical factors that come into play, it's just a matter of being motivated enough and existential threats are quite good at motivating. Germany lost both world wars, they were devastated both times. Yet they were able to rebuild within few years since their loss in World War I and grow even more powerful, allowing them to become the driving force behind another world war where they succeeded in controlling almost all of Europe. Ever since they lost again at an even higher cost to themselves they have grown to be Europe's strongest economy. None of this should be ignored.

 

I'm not saying Europe hasn't grown softer, it's main opposition (Russia) simply wasn't a very credible threat for a long time which will lead to softness. However, if a conflict were to actually occur, it would be a shock and an eye opener and Europe will do what it always does, it will wake up, change gears and prepare for war. The risk for Europe is not being able to turn things around and gear up quick enough. One of the concerns of NATO these days is that they can't match Russia's ability to rapidly deploy in Eastern Europe so the biggest danger about a conventional war for Europeans is being caught unaware with too little time prepare. Europe doesn't lack anything for it to be able to successfully wage war, it has all the resources it needs, it's just a matter of actually using those resources towards the end of waging war. China is barely even relevant to the question of European defense, it's all about Russia, North Africa and the Middle East.

[Andrezj Kolarov]

Then perhaps you can stop exclusively attacking Leave? Otherwise you might as well. 

The EU is a lesser evil compared to America.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I second what Rozalia asked: What similarities?

Well there has been a massive growth in blaming minorities for the woes of the continent. World War II came after recession, caused by the greed of Wall Street in America and the Great War in Europe. Hitler blamed the Jews, Trump is blaming the Mexicans, Britain First and Farage the refugees, Polish and other eastern Europeans. A climate of Xenophobia is rife and spreading. We are once again becoming a society that is compassionless and quick to blame.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Robert Ap Ioan

[Ivan the Red]

I'm not saying Europe hasn't grown softer, it's main opposition (Russia) simply wasn't a very credible threat for a long time which will lead to softness.

This is were you get your facts wrong. Nobody really cares about Russia west of the Elbe. Much less people like Farange and Le Pen who are the ones who like to play the foreign threat card and are best buddies with Putin.

 

Historically, in fact, Russia has been more often than not an ally of Britain and France to keep Germany under check. Right now Russia could drive their tanks over Warsaw and no one in western or southern europe would really give a !@#$, much less do anything about it. If Putin does not do it is due to the same fact that barely keeps NATO from driving to Moscow: Fear of nukes.

 

The poles, sure, they are the ones historically submited to russian rule. But for everyone else, the rule has always been that we invade Russia, not the other way around, and it ends poorly. Not gonna fall for that trap again, bro.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Andrezj Kolarov]

Poland should be singing Russia's praises, are you aware just how much territory was given to Poland by the USSR after WW2?

[Ivan the Red]

The irony right now is that the western european ultra-right is pro-russian and anti-EU, while the eastern european ultra-right is anti-russian and pro-EU. Kinda funny.

 

This is also related to the crisis of the EU project as the interests of Germany + her new eastern colonies clash with the interests of western and mediterranean Europe. Even France is pissed, and the EU has always basically been France+Germany. If that entente is broken (and it is well on the way of breaking) then the EU (this EU, at least) will be officially defunct.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Rozalia]

The EU is a lesser evil compared to America.

 

You're always speaking this guff. America is not a union that wishes to absorb Great Britain, key difference. In future if we do away with America influence then thats that, if we're absorbed into the EU then revolt/war will be the only option. 

 

Well there has been a massive growth in blaming minorities for the woes of the continent. World War II came after recession, caused by the greed of Wall Street in America and the Great War in Europe. Hitler blamed the Jews, Trump is blaming the Mexicans, Britain First and Farage the refugees, Polish and other eastern Europeans. A climate of Xenophobia is rife and spreading. We are once again becoming a society that is compassionless and quick to blame.

 

Let me ask you this and then you can tell me how war primed the country is... what claims do the public want pushed? Sure they want some bad dudes out, but who do they want to attack? Ummm, I'll throw one out for you. Ireland is de jure Great Britain but how many Britains want to invade Ireland? Many more want to give Northern Ireland to them you'll find. 

 

When a fascist has millions of people behind him and is stating he'll reclaim parts of the fallen Empire, then I think you can start saying such things. Currently however it is simply laughable and scaremongering.

[Ivan the Red]

The EU is a lesser evil compared to America.

You talk like if the EU was somewhat antagonic to America, instead of total in tune with the dictates of the american corporations.

 

There was a time back in the 90 when the "europeist" movement attempted to win the hearts and minds of the european population with the idea that united, the european states could regain their status as hegemonic powers of the world. But in the end, the real purpose of the EU has been made evident with the secret negotiations of the TTIP agreement.

 

For american corporations, it's easier to deal with a single administration in Brussels than with more than two dozen different national governments. This is why the US has always fully backed the EU project. This is what the EU project is and has always been about.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Ivan the Red

[Aisha Greyjoy]

This is were you get your facts wrong. Nobody really cares about Russia west of the Elbe. Much less people like Farange and Le Pen who are the ones who like to play the foreign threat card and are best buddies with Putin.

 

Historically, in fact, Russia has been more often than not an ally of Britain and France to keep Germany under check. Right now Russia could drive their tanks over Warsaw and no one in western or southern europe would really give a !@#$, much less do anything about it. If Putin does not do it is due to the same fact that barely keeps NATO from driving to Moscow: Fear of nukes.

 

The poles, sure, they are the ones historically submited to russian rule. But for everyone else, the rule has always been that we invade Russia, not the other way around, and it ends poorly. Not gonna fall for that trap again, bro.

I would fully expect the United States to send a few divisions brigades(wish it was divisions, but let's face it, it takes a long time to move a division) to Poland before Warsaw fell, and possibly commit to the full use of tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus and Russia if we were not able to get the troops there in time.

 

Regardless of the EU, there is NATO, and I'd expect British warplanes to be pounding the Russian Navy and soldiers as well.

 

Edit:  We might not defend the baltic states that way, but Poland is a line in the sand.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Aisha Greyjoy

[Abu Haddad]

about the NHS.

Whilst many europeans come and place a strain the leave campaigners forget the large amount of non british doctors and nurses who come and work for those pesky chavs 

[Callum]

Man, Scotland is !@#$ing us hard.

[Rozalia]

about the NHS.

Whilst many europeans come and place a strain the leave campaigners forget the large amount of non british doctors and nurses who come and work for those pesky chavs 

 

Considering they've addressed that several times you are incorrect. Foreign doctors and such will still be able to come in no problem.

 

Man, Scotland is !@#$ us hard.

 

As expected Scotland, the people who want to be independent want to remain and later be absorbed by a European superstate (what a joke those Nationalists).

 

Results are currently 49.9 Remain, 50.1 Leave, leave having recently gained 0.4. Most of Scotland has voted so if I'm correct (hopefully) then Remain got that early lead due to that and it should get demolished as time goes on. 

 

Come Britain, bring down the EU!

[Rozalia]

It's back and forth currently, both sides are taking very small leads constantly. Turnout is high which people say will benefit remain but I wonder if that is really true umm.... 

[Rozalia]

Leave has gained a whole percentage point lead over Remain! Keep pushing at that door!

[Franz Von Dietrich]

It's back and forth currently, both sides are taking very small leads constantly. Turnout is high which people say will benefit remain but I wonder if that is really true umm.... 

Well yes, it's been interesting looking at the current results. It has "Leave" currently in lead with 6.1 million votes to 5.8 million for "Remain".

[Rozalia]

Well yes, it's been interesting looking at the current results. It has "Leave" currently in lead with 6.1 million votes to 5.8 million for "Remain".

 

The tracker I'm using must be a bit behind then though that one also has a 300k lead. Leave has a hard task as from the onset it was well known Scotland and the global city of London would vote remain, and thats a lot of people. 

[Franz Von Dietrich]

The tracker I'm using must be a bit behind then though that one also has a 300k lead. Leave has a hard task as from the onset it was well known Scotland and the global city of London would vote remain, and thats a lot of people. 

Oh, I've been looking at:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612368

 

Edit: It just gained some momentum for "Remain", now they're 6.2 million with "Leave" being 6.5 million.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Comrade Enver Hoxha

[Rozalia]

Oh, I've been looking at:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612368

 

Edit: It just gained some momentum for "Remain", now they're 6.2 million with "Leave" being 6.5 million.

 

Been using http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysismyself.

[Rozalia]

Just turned on the TV to check what the message is. Just saw Alastair Campbell, thats a Spin doctor for those not aware, saying Comrade Corbyn is to blame for current results.

[Rozalia]

It's reaching 1.5% to 2% in favour of leave. Patriots are charging forward, cucks fleeing!

[Rozalia]

My area voted to leave! Nice!

[Rozalia]

Just saw Nigel Farage, who has been fighting for 25 years and is a good part of why we're having this vote to begin with speak. They should give him a statue for this. 

[Thalmor]

According to: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612368

 

...Leave is ahead by 630,000 votes:

 

[Rozalia]

The numbers have been going up! When it was at around 400k I was still anxious, hoping it would not drop and yet it's going up. Now at 700k!

 

Some comments I've been seeing is the Remainers saying that the vote is irrelevant. Parliament is 80% Pro-EU and they'll never vote to leave it. They want to commit electoral suicide and make Nigel Farage Prime Minister? Bring it on.